From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #16 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, January 19 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 016 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni lyric on front page of paper! [gerard mclaughlin ] Re: On Joni's health [Jeannie ] Re: A get well card? [Jeannie ] Re: A get well card? [Lori Fye ] Donation time! [scam1@freeway.net] Lesson in Survival SJC [Russell Bowden ] Re: Lesson in Survival SJC [Lori Fye ] Clarification - Very Ill ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: Lesson in Survival SJC [T Peckham ] Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life" ["Marian" ] Recent News and the Cultural Olympiad [Michael Francis McCarthy ] Re: Lesson in Survival SJC [Catherine McKay ] RE: Clarification - Very Ill ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: Clarification - Very Ill ["Mark" ] what we share, what we don't [dflahm@aol.com] "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." [] Re: Joni lyric on front page of paper! [Scott Price ] A get well card? [Willie Yanock ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 11:42:19 +0000 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: Joni lyric on front page of paper! Every little bit counts ! Well done your husband ! they took all the cars and they put them in a car museum and they charged all the people the price of planting a tree just to see 'em.Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone. They unpaved paradise when they took down that parking lot....works either way. hahahahahaha. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 6:43 AM, Lindsay Moon wrote: > Our local newspaper, the San Diego Union-Tribune had the following front > page story on Saturday, Jan. 16, 2010: > > "Mayor wants cars out of landmark Balboa Park plaza by Steve Schmidt, Staff > Writer: > > Decades ago, San Diego paved a bit of paradise and put in a parking lot." > > Haha. My husband found it. Nice I've trained him well! > > Lindsay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:43:45 -0500 From: Susan E McNamara Subject: RE: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." Just wanted to chime in about this article, which had many bombs in it besides Joni's health. The box set ... her remark about slack-key guitar where she said she has 37 tunings (our website says 94, yikes!) ... and my favorite, where she says she's more complicated than Mozart. For the past three months I've been living, researching and playing unreleased Joni tunes pre-Song For A Seagull, and her raw talent at that young age is so mind-blowing to me that when I hear her talk about her creative process, her take on the world and her own personal feelings, changes and insights, I have to put it in the context of her genius. It is near impossible for me to relate my normal challenges on a mundane day to day basis with a person who has lived the kind of life, internally and externally, that Joni Mitchell has lived. From a very early age she experienced her prodigy and near death illness. Her twenties witnessed the loss of her child through adoption and her rise to fame, with each event being poured into her art, with purity and depth that effected everyone she came in contact with (including all who ever heard her play a song). Ok, I believe she is very ill and struggles, but damnit, she just collaborated on a ballet, yet another foray into a new medium that she made her own. Despite all the amazing ups and downs she has experience in the last 65 years, one thing stays constant: The Gift. God bless Joni Mitchell and may she live a long fruitful life, and if it is her fate not to live as long as her parents, may the new generation preserve her music as long as Mozart and the other greats. I also wanted to say thanks to Miguel for his moving post and also say hi to Mark D! Hey buddy!! :-) ___________________ /___________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue Tierney || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake." - Joni Mitchell ================================== Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:59:31 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 - ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #12 ******************************** - ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:52:17 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: A get well card? good idea! Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 17, 2010, at 5:51 PM, Willie Yanock wrote: I just thought might be a good idea to start a get well card and we can all send our regards and send it to her. Maybe she will feel better? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:54:20 -0600 From: Jeannie Subject: Re: On Joni's health These posts just pulled me through. I just found out and I couldn't think staright. I couldn't even send an e-mail out to you guys. i was struck deaf, dumb and blind.But now I'm okay if Joni is okay... Thanks Miguel, Mark-Leon, Kate, everyone for pulling me through as I experienced this news. ALL MY LOVE TO JONI AND ALL still shaking like a leaf On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 2:56 AM, Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Miguel, I want to thank you for your openness, your insight and your > honesty. Your post was the most touching and inspirational post I have read > on this list in thirteen years. Just as Joni's song, Judgement of The Moon > and Stars inspired you, your story has inspired me. Her words were perfect > for your situation and I am moved to use them to inspire me now too. It > seems you have overcome enormous adversity with the help of these words but, > I feel you must be an extraordinary human being too. You, in turn, have > inspired me. I thank you for that. > > Mark in Sydney > > NP Strange Little Girl (Mysterio Mix) - Tori Amos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:58:35 -0600 From: Jeannie Subject: Re: A get well card? I'm with you, too, Willie. I'll follow you, Willie, on anything you want to do for Joni! On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Marion Leffler wrote: > I'm with you on this one, Willie! I have read all the posts and really have > nothing more to add than this: let us all wish her well. Maybe knowing that > she is in so many thoughts would make her feel at least a little better. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Willie Yanock" < > yanock.willie@yahoo.com> > To: > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:51 AM > Subject: A get well card? > > > > I just thought might be a good idea to start a get well card and we can all >> send our regards and send it to her. Maybe she will feel better? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 09:42:41 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: A get well card? It's a splendid idea, Willie. Now: how do we go about it? Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:25:57 -0500 (EST) From: scam1@freeway.net Subject: Donation time! http://jonimitchell.com/donate.cfm I have made my donation and ask that each member of this list go to the website and do the same. The amount does not matter, but giving back does. Email me privately with your confirmation of donations and why you love JMDL and our fantastic webmaster, Les. scam1@freeway.net I will have a CD from an emerging artist influenced by Joni to send to select individual(s) who make the contribution and personal contact. With the recent news of Joni's illness I think it is even more vital to keep prayers for her recovery going and to keep the list and the Joni website financially strong. Hugs to all, Suze n.p. Girlyman, "Easy Bake Ovens" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:02:14 -0800 From: Russell Bowden Subject: Lesson in Survival SJC Gang, Walt and Anne S. both make good points, re: Joni's medical condition...Until she gives up the cigs...I don't see her fighting very hard....rabid reformed smoker here.....Anne, I just liked your view of her situation. I think it's time we stop trying to re-make Joni in the image we'd (the JMDL) like her to be and just let her be. Sorry for the disjointedness...still on coffee.. Get well Joni and all the folks sick in body and mind. Love, Russ in the Bay Area (formerly Maine) Sotto voce _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:38:42 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Lesson in Survival SJC Russ, back in the Bay Area, wrote: > I think it's time we stop trying to re-make Joni in the image > we'd (the JMDL) like her to be and just let her be. I agree, but that includes letting her be about her smoking too. Joni has her beliefs in and about her smoking, and who are we to call "Science!" on her? Lori, who never was a cig smoker, Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:14:37 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Clarification - Very Ill Hey All, So - in the wake of outpouring about the bad news and some scattered reactions to my post, I wanted to try and put things in perspective a little. I'm not going to apologize for what I said - I don't think that's necessary, and frankly, it wouldn't be a TRUE apology so much as it would be an appeasement of sorts. not my style (nor Joni's, for that matter). However, when I read what Lori said about thinking in terms of unsubscribing, I felt moved to at least respond in some way. I'd never want to think that my verbiage would compel someone - especially a long standing JMDL'er - to leave this community. For those of you that have no idea who the hell I am, I've been a member of this list for about a decade. Ironically, after a few years of daily posts and more hardcore list-engagement, I dissolved into lurk mode because I found some of the other people difficult to take (I'd begun butting heads with one gal in particular who I don't think is here anymore that used to call JM "Mitchell" - - made me nuts). So, I only chime in a few times a year now - when I feel I have something relevant to say, industry information to share, etc. I was a friend of Wally Breese's in the early-mid 90's, traded tapes with him before he started JM.com and maintained contact with him when he became ill. Point is, I don't want anyone thinking I'm some insensitive loudmouth that just suddenly turned up to make some blasphemous statements. Not that this is in anyone's business, but Wally and I had an ongoing 'phone romance' that might've morphed into something more serious had I not been involved (he and my BF were close in age, I was in my early-mid 20's. and my lover, Greg, absolutely HATED the way that Wally and I would gab on the phone for hours. whoops). We talked about my coming to SF to visit, etc. Anyway. the first thing I traded him for was a tape of the Hissing Demos in 1992/3. To this day, that set of tracks is my favorite of all my collected JM rarities, and I really long for more exposure to Joni's unreleased studio noodling. I started listening to Joni Mitchell when I was 3. I know this probably seems like a silly thing to say, but it's true. Obviously, it was more of a pleasing vocal tone than anything else to me at such a young age, but as I got older, Joni Mitchell grew into a passion, an obsession, a hobby. I saw the Wild Things tour in 83 and have been lucky enough to see a handful of JM shows in my life. Regardless of whatever else I might be investigating musically, Joni Mitchell was/is a constant. As an adolescent I'd spend hours at the SUNY Purchase library looking at microfiche archives of Rolling Stone, Cash Box, Crawdaddy, etc, reading old album reviews, checking out the original ad campaigns for the albums (pre-ebay, obviously), stealing a copy of Leonore Fleischer's book from another library in the area and ordering vinyl bootlegs from record stores around the country (my first was "Kept on by Her Own Devices," from 72). By the time I was 14 I had a Wild Things tour poster and a DJRD poster mounted in my bedroom and a half-dozen vinyl boots of wildly varying quality. I'd call the publicity dept at Geffen every now and again to see if I could get an update on whether JM was in the studio, if a release date had been set, if there was a working title. Especially at that age, my peers thought I was WEIRD. They didn't like JM, made merciless fun of her funky outfits, prominent teeth and the way she sort of danced with her hands when she wasn't holding a guitar. It was torture sometimes, quite honestly, but my devotion was pure. I took heat after the water balloon incident at the Amnesty gig ("See Treacy? Nobody wants to hear this bitch!"). Back when I was smaller I'd also loved Carole King and James Taylor, but neither of them had Joni's depth. They were more in a pop culture vein. Although I couldn't necessarily articulate it to you at the time, Joni Mitchell was an ARTIST of the highest order, and on some level I sensed this intrinsically. Parallel to all this was my increasing use of drugs. Mostly just normal teen stuff to start - smoking dope and drinking beer. And like any good 60's-counter-culture obsessed 16 yr old, I tried acid, mushrooms and mescaline. It wasn't until around the time I came to know Wally, after college, that I began using lots of cocaine. I've mentioned this here before, but I'll include it for the sake of being thorough: I became concerned about Joni and her health instead of focusing on my own. Call it some amalgam of denial and transference. This wasn't anything new - I'd always worried about other heroes I'd perceived as being wilder (Debbie Harry for one, who I was sure was going to keel over at any given moment). But at some point, I became painfully aware that, staring at my Wild Things tour poster, one of Joni's nostrils seemed larger than the other. IT BUGGED ME. I remember calling Wally in a panic one day after a nightmare I'd had. Sometime in 1994 when we heard the single for TI would be "How Do You Stop?" I dreamt about a picture sleeve with a photo of Joni, straw in hand, staring helplessly at a huge pile of blow. it's amusing to me in a surreal way now, but at the time I was terrified. And Wally told me that Joni had been very sick inbtwn NRH and TI. He told me about the breakup with Klein, that Joni had surgery on her throat, and then. then came the Troubadours of Folk performance. Joni didn't sound well. At least, not to me she didn't. And it gutted me. Completely. It took me a long time to get over that. To me, it was as if she's somehow forgotten how to perform. And vocally, she struck me like Leonard Cohen - it was as if the bottom had dropped out of her voice. Over time, I got used to husky, bronchial Joni. have even grown to love the jazz chanteuse angle on her aged pipes. But my point in delivering this long sermon is to make clear that I've been unnaturally preoccupied with Joni Mitchell's mortality for a LONG TIME. It's as if I've already worked through her dying. I spent years worrying about her health, her habits, her vices (and those of Rickie Lee Jones, Patti Smith, Kirsty MacColl, Kristin Hersh, Tori Amos and other artists I cherish). But when I finally got sober around the time I first joined this list (I have had to go through this process twice and am on the eve of 7 years continually sober, but the journey started in 1999), I started to let all that stuff go. I had to. I've got plenty to worry about right here w/o taking on the weight of everyone else's health issues. And it also bears mentioning that, since getting sober, I've mainly worked as a music journalist. I've only written a little about JM here and there, but on the whole it's been a thoroughly illusion-shattering (read: upsetting) process. Perhaps I've become a bit calloused along the way. Saturday was my 40th birthday. As I lay awake unable to sleep watching Seinfeld reruns my phone vibrated at about 4am with the new JMDL digest. And when I saw Les's post, I was immediately alarmed, saddened, confused, angered - all that stuff. You're right, Anita - people react strangely to news like this. As I read the intv piece on my blackberry I found myself getting increasingly annoyed with the whole thing - the intv'er, the line of questioning, Joni's diva-esque attitude - all of it. Mind you, this is coming from someone who did lots of interviews with celebs, some of whom I hold dear (never talked to JM and I passed off RLJ to another journo - didn't want to ruin my affinity for her work). Tag-teaming the way that JM and Jean did is HAVOC on a journalist. my former editor at the Boston Herald would've told me to call back and get more info about the 'dying' statements before he would have let the piece into the paper. Either that or cut them out completely. So, I found the whole thing to be rather confusing - almost like a parody of a bad intv. But I'd read about JM and Morgellon's on WIKI and - frankly - if you look at the bonus intv footage on the TFATD DVD, she looks blotchy. Unusually red and puffy. So, like it or not, it appeared to be very real. I've liked everything that Joni has done - but to widely varying degrees. So, when I say 'overblown orchestral projects,' that's my way of saying I wish she'd done it with a jazz quintet instead. When I say 'unremarkable,' I mean that I know she's capable of more. The way that the bad news was sort of simultaneously delivered - I'm dying and no box set - was horrendous. Especially since I haven't been terribly thrilled with what she's decided to release in the last 10-15 years. What I think I was trying to say was that, let's face it, Joni Mitchell is going to die. If not this time then maybe next. It doesn't mean I'm not upset to hear she's uncomfortable, but she's only human - and a human that's already survived against great odds. In that event, what she is survived *BY* is her legacy - her work. And since the latter portion of the work hasn't been stellar (IMHO), it's the vaulted material that I've been anticipating. The now-fabled box was/is the first real glimmer of it. I can honestly say that it was the single-most exciting musical release I've heard about in years. Rhino had those expanded editions of C&S, THOSL and Hejira listed on their schedule going back to 2004 or 5 - but it never happened. So, the carrot has been dangling for quite a while. I'm not that asshole going "Paint 'A Starry Night' again, man." I'm the (admittedly annoying) guy next to him saying, "Could you show me a little about *how* you painted it? What images were under the canvas that you opted to cover up? Was there a different color scheme?" Of the two of us, I think my request is a little more legit, but. I digress. Midway through my birthday, I suddenly felt ill. REALLY ill. Spiking fever, holy-shit-maybe-I-have-the-pig-flu ill. I'm still not sure if I really am under the weather or if my system just gave out from the internalized stress of bad news and the reality of turning 40. But I came home and got into bed. And I was lying there later that evening when Russ' attack came through. Folks, I don't feel like Joni Mitchell owes me anything. never have (although, ya'know, *THANKS* Russ for making sure I understand that in your ultimate wisdom and authority). Still, I find it frustrating that she guards the unreleased material the way she does. And if I can't be honest about that here then, really, something is very wrong. Both Bob Dylan and Neil Young - artists on par with JM - have delved into the archives and given fans little scraps to chew on. lately, it seems, at the rate of a new scrap every few months. But not so for JM fans. If you can't understand my frustration with that, again - something is wrong here. This is a forum about an artist we all commonly respect and feel passion about. But what brought us here is her work; it's the art *first* and the artist *second*. And while I do indeed see aspects of a very lovable character in Joni (the colorful storytelling, her charming giggle, the way she invited Wally to spend a weekend with her when she found out he was sick - and that's just the tip of the iceberg), she seems rather hell-bent on NOT making ANY decisions based on the wants/needs of her fans. Again: no, she doesn't owe us anything. Of course not. But that doesn't mean we (read: I) don't want anything from her. This woman has been an integral part of my consciousness for 37 years. She's shaped my thinking. I naturally crave to know more about her creative process - to hear songs develop from demos on forward, to hear what hit the cutting room floor, to get inside the mind of someone I regard as a genius. A ballet? It's great that she's feeling so positive about it, but there's a limit to how enthused I can get about TFATD. So when I hear she's pulling the plug on the box, but she's still actively pushing the ballet in the next sentence, I get annoyed. Frustrated. Is there something unnatural about that? REALLY? Or is it more that I said something many of us were thinking but didn't dare say? Chew on that for a while. Russ attacked me pretty viciously - said I was childish, cold, disrespectful and even Intimated I use some sort of stoner-logic with my having written the word 'bummer' in my response to him (now that you know the whole story, maybe you can see how that might REALLY piss me off). You didn't see the final exchange that went on btwn us off-list - it got worse. And maybe I didn't represent myself as well as I could/should have. But when somebody backs me into a corner for being honest, all bets are off. And I no longer feel like they deserve the best of me. Maybe that's how Joni feels. That's all I've got. Lori, I'm sending good stuff Joni's way - never meant to imply I didn't think she deserves it, never meant to imply I don't wish her well. Cheers, Christopher ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:22:52 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Lesson in Survival SJC AMEN! (and ditto on the never-a-smoker myself) Terra On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Lori Fye wrote: > Russ, back in the Bay Area, wrote: > > > I think it's time we stop trying to re-make Joni in the image > > we'd (the JMDL) like her to be and just let her be. > > I agree, but that includes letting her be about her smoking too. Joni has > her beliefs in and about her smoking, and who are we to call "Science!" on > her? > > Lori, > who never was a cig smoker, > Santa Rosa, CA > - -- Some things in life it just gets too late to learn . . . --Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:04:39 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life" Has anyone seen this (page down to the comment area)? http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/blog/4006-morgellons-blood-highly-contaminated - -28563.html Other interesting links include: http://www.naturalnews.com/025757_disease_Morgellons_fiber.html http://zapmorgellons.blogspot.com/2009/06/stop-suffering-from-morgellons-dise ase.html There are many many more websites and articles. I am convinced that Morgellons exists, that it is highly contagious, that it is debilitating, and that it is like a modern-day leprosy. Ever since I heard about Joni suffering from this (March 2009), I have worried for her on an almost daily basis. This is a real disease that you should hope you never get! I hope that the medical community/industry will soon take the Morgellons sufferers seriously and find a cure. Marian Austria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:55:30 -0800 From: Michael Francis McCarthy Subject: Recent News and the Cultural Olympiad Thanks for all of your thoughts about the Vancouver Sun interview. You've helped me organize my feelings about this rather disturbing interview. I agree, Joni was a bit terse ("stupid question!") and that weirdness about keeping the interview "on track" and sidelining her open statements about her health. And, John Mackie obviously was ill-prepared. Nonetheless, it was a real thrill to find the Sun's Joni cover all over town this weekend. I'm sending her good vibes and my money says she'll be there at the Queen Elizabeth Theatre on Friday. Here's a link to a post about the news from my blog, designKULTUR. Get well, Joni! Best, Michael Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:51:27 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: Clarification - Very Ill > That's all I've got. Lori, I'm sending good stuff Joni's way - never meant > to imply I didn't think she deserves it, never meant to imply I don't wish > her well. Thank you for writing your heartfelt, honest, and clarifying post, Christopher. You and me, we're good. I hope anyone else's hurt or annoyed feelings blow over. Love to all of you, and most especially to Joni, Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:25:10 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Lesson in Survival SJC As a reformed smoker, I'd love it if she quit but I wouldn't waste my breath trying to convince her to quit or hold my breath waiting for it - even if non-smokers can hold their breath longer than smokers ;-) ________________________________ From: Lori Fye To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 3:38:42 PM Subject: Re: Lesson in Survival SJC Russ, back in the Bay Area, wrote: > I think it's time we stop trying to re-make Joni in the image > we'd (the JMDL) like her to be and just let her be. I agree, but that includes letting her be about her smoking too. Joni has her beliefs in and about her smoking, and who are we to call "Science!" on her? Lori, who never was a cig smoker, Santa Rosa, CA __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:54:25 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: RE: Clarification - Very Ill Thanks Lori - glad we worked it out. Cheers Everybody, Chris, trying to find redeeming qualities in The Roches' "Speak"- love the trio, never cared much for this album. Lol, still don't, although it's got a few decent moments. From: Lori Fye [mailto:lori.fye@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 6:51 PM To: Christopher Treacy Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Clarification - Very Ill > That's all I've got. Lori, I'm sending good stuff Joni's way - never meant > to imply I didn't think she deserves it, never meant to imply I don't wish > her well. Thank you for writing your heartfelt, honest, and clarifying post, Christopher. You and me, we're good. I hope anyone else's hurt or annoyed feelings blow over. Love to all of you, and most especially to Joni, Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 17:33:05 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Clarification - Very Ill I really enjoyed reading that. I appreciated your candor and have to admit I chuckled at your description of how obsessive a fan you can be, but how aware you are of this. As a person who sometimes catches herself obsessing about weird things, but noticing that she's doing it, I can relate to that. I can't honestly say I've ever been that obsessed with any artist, but, having read your post, now I think I can understand it. (I was pretty sure that Patti Smith would die at a young age, but she has proven me wrong, I'm happy to say!) I also think it's weird that the editor might allow the journalist to include the stuff about Joni saying she's sick, when there was a choice to either eliminate it or get more info on it. I'd be going for "get more info," but that's just me. I'm still surprised no other media has picked up on this yet. I'd think they'd be all over it, but sometimes there's a bit of a time lag. And maybe Joni's not that easy to get hold of. I'd like to see that damn box set too. I'm sure there are plenty of really good archivists out there - perhaps on this list? - who'd be able to do a great job of it. Maybe Joni has difficulty trusting other people to understand her enough to do the job she'd like to see done. To all those who say she doesn't owe us anything, I know, I know, you're right. But I'd still like the box set, OK? Liked what Anita had to say about people reacting differently (Hi, Anita!) So true that is! Or, as one of my sisters likes to say, but you have to hear it in her voice to really appreciate it: "Everyone's different." Happy birthday, by the way. ________________________________ From: Christopher Treacy To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 4:14:37 PM Subject: Clarification - Very Ill Hey All, So - in the wake of outpouring about the bad news and some scattered reactions to my post, I wanted to try and put things in perspective a little. ... __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:46:15 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: Clarification - Very Ill - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Treacy" Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 1:14 PM To: Subject: Clarification - Very Ill . Although I couldn't necessarily articulate it to you at the > time, Joni Mitchell was an ARTIST of the highest order, and on some level > I > sensed this intrinsically Well I was older than you, Christopher (college age) when I first made the statement that Joni Mitchell is a genius. I have felt more & more validated in this as the years have gone by and find it very gratifying. I'm the > (admittedly annoying) guy next to him saying, "Could you show me a little > about *how* you painted it? What images were under the canvas that you > opted > to cover up? Was there a different color scheme?" That is called 'pentimento', because the painter repented. Changed his mind. Sorry but I couldn't resist. I was somewhat obsessed with Lillian Hellman. At about the same time I first became obsessed with Joni. But I digress. This is not meant as an attack. I am as rabid for a Joni Mitchell box set as any of us are. But.....they are Joni's noodlings and experiments and discarded takes, are they not? She has a right to what she pleases with them. Maybe she's not comfortable with revealing what was painted over. I honestly thought about the possibility of asking her (in the Utopian world I dream of where I actually have the chance to stand up from row Y at the Paramount Theatre when TFATD is in Seattle and shout a question out to Joni Mitchell) if she was at all interested in releasing a box set just to leave behind something for historical purposes. Like you and Sue Tierney (not using Sue Mac here, Sue, though it's hard not to ;-)) I believe she is an artist of that much importance. She has the chance to actually choose what it would contain. After she is no longer in her physical body (which unfortunately, as you say, Christopher, has to happen someday) somebody else is bound to do it anyway. Maybe not a year later, maybe not a decade later. But someday, Joni Mitchell's entire legacy of recorded material will be archived by somebody and preserved in some way that will be accessible to the public. I also think it would be fascinating to be let in on more of her process. She has verbalized her creative process in many articles and interviews over the years. But to hear some of the actual bits and pieces would be wonderful, wouldn't it? But then again, there is this ambivalent attitude in my mind about how much of an artist's discarded output does the public have a 'right' to experience? Would someone like Virginia Woolf (my latest literary obsession) really want to have all of their early drafts, diaries and letters published? I personally have read the diaries and am on Volume 3 of the 6 volumes of her letters - prolific writer to say the least - so I guess I can't really take a moral stance about this. But I still wonder about it. How would I feel if it were me? Some say it's part of the price you pay for celebrity. You become public property, in a way. I don't know that I necessarily buy into that. Both Bob Dylan and Neil > Young - artists on par with JM - have delved into the archives and given > fans little scraps to chew on. lately, it seems, at the rate of a new > scrap > every few months. It seems to me that this is a very good way of milking the archives for every dollar you can get out of them. Whether it be the artist or their manager, agent, record company et al that thinks of doing it. Although I can kind of understand Joni's dislike of re-evaluating her old material, however, I do think she would have some thought for posterity, if not her fans. Then again, if she's feeling like she's fighting for her life, I suppose listening to her youthful self performing work she created 40 + years ago is not high on her list of priorities. Oh, and my experience has been that once you get past 40, you become less and less obsessed about your numerical age. I will have the 16th anniversary of my 40th birthday in April and it's like, eh, who cares? It's the fact that my body can't do everything it could do when I was 20 that I'm not crazy about. I do hope you (and Joni) feel better soon. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:05:19 EST From: dflahm@aol.com Subject: what we share, what we don't I believe I've read that Kafka instructed his literary executor, Max Brod, to burn almost all his manuscripts. Brod, of course, disobeyed. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:14:47 -0500 From: Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." Hi Mark, you wrote" "Kakki's post got me curious about the Amchitka nuclear bomb test that was the impetus that launched Greenpeace. So I looked at the liner notes for the concert cd. Barbara Stowe says that Amchitka is 'one of the most seismically volatile regions on the planet'." Yes, it is part of the "ring of fire" that surrounds all the coastlines of of the continents bordering the Pacific Ocean. " I have the feeling that Joni was doing her usual free-association rattling on and just pulled 'San Andreas fault' out of her head in association with 'seismically volatile regions'. Just guessing here, but I suspect that Amchitka may be, like the Puget Sound region, vulnerable to subduction earthquakes, caused by one tectonic plate moving underneath another. Talking off the cuff, Joni associated earthquake with San Andreas fault and that is what came out." Of course, and while I realize a lot of people don't know the "San Andreas" fault like we do in California, Joni has lived here for 40 years and has to have lived through a few earthquakes and the residents' constant fear of the San Andreas going off. How could she possibly confuse it with thousands of other faults, especially one several thousands of miles away in Alaska? The San Andreas fault is gigantic - it splits the state in half, it is the demarcation between the continental U.S. and Pacific plates. But it is unique to California. It is the one everyone here fears that when it decides to move, it will be the "Big One." It is the one that some dramatically-inclined people believe will make the cities of L.A. and San Francisco "fall into the ocean." She has lived in this region for decades - how could she possibly think it is the only earthquake fault in the Pacific region and it stretches all the way to Alaska? I don't know - maybe some think it is an allowable mischaracterization if it "helps the cause" but that is a dangerous tack. I totally believe, like Joni, that it is absolute lunacy to test underground nukes on or near ANY earthquake fault, but geez, I have the feeling that anyone who reads this who is not in the U.S. will actually believe our "crazed government" tested underground nukes on one of the greatest major faults in the continental U.S. - one that runs close by several major world population centers. What if she stated that underground nukes were tested on the San Juan de Fuca fault (in Washington state) because she thought it was close to Alaska (still thousands of miles away but one state down, so to speak) and then she, off the cuff, said it was tested under Washington D.C.? Geez! Mark said: "Kakki's and some other posts about the interview, made me start to speculate if Joni's mind was beginning to wander off a bit. But, listening to her, I don't get that impression. Her comments about changing slack-key guitar and the way ballet dancers perform seem to be the usual Joni ego coming through. Maybe there is some truth to what she is saying. I always like to give her the benefit of the doubt. I have a long and constant record here of giving her every benefit of the doubt and have taken many flames for it in the past. I totally have been uncritical of her ego many tiimes because I truly know it comes with the "creative genius" territory and I absolutely am a true believer that she HAS influenced and greatly brought the course of contemporary music into new, original directions. I have always "idolized" her but part of that idolization has been the belief that she knows a whole lot more than me about many things. But, while I would agree that she probably did influence modern Hawaiian slack key guitar music, I know for a fact that she wasn't the sole person who precipitated the Hawaiian slack key guitarists' turn to new colorations and tones. Stephen Stills, for one, spent time on the islands and had a significant influence, along with many other popular music artists in the 60s-70s. I'm no expert on it, but do believe it is an unintentional diss for her to state she was the only one who infuenced their music. And it is their music, afterall - their special genre, and it is a dissservice to seemingly nullify their OWN creativity in the evolution of that music. As for ballet, I am also no expert, but know I saw performances of contemporary ballet nearly 40 years ago where list performers were allowed to move their heads instead of keeping them stiff. Wasn't George Balanchine rightly accredited for that 50 years ago? Even Jean Grand-Maitre tried to correct her on that in the interview, clarifying and distinguishing that she may have been talking about "classic" ballet. Look, I adore Joni and always will but in my other real life outside this list (like everyone else), I have seen people, friends and family, sometimes cross over the line of reality. I put that line liberally to the very edge, especially with brilliant people, but sometimes you have to say - oooo, now this is something else and as a friend or even totally removed "list friend" you have to recognize that there are some things they show that may not be something you just pass over. Bottom line, I wrote offlist to a freind that I think her greatest need is real love from real friends. I have this awful feeling that everyone is always "calling her up for favors, with someone's future to decide" but who in her life really truly, loves her as she is and tries to keep her a bit grounded? I feel there is a deficit there and that is part of her illness. Just my take. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:00:24 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Joni lyric on front page of paper! At 10:43 PM 1/17/2010, Lindsay Moon wrote: >the Union-Tribune had the following San Diego paved a bit of >paradise and put in a parking lot." Today's New York Times contains an opinion piece by Ross Douthat titled "Internet Politics From Both Sides Now." Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:56:01 -0800 (PST) From: Willie Yanock Subject: A get well card? Sorry. S.L. Feldman and Associates no longer represent Joni Mitchell and will not forward any mail to her people.. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #16 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe