From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #13 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 16 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 013 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." [Lori Fye ] Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." [Janet Hess ] RE: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." [Danilo Monno ] Re: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life [Anita G ] Re: Morgellons [Catherine McKay ] Re: Morgellons [Catherine McKay ] Re: Morgellons [T Peckham ] Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." [T Peckham ] "i'm very ill, i'm fighting for my life" [joe farrell ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:17:10 -0800 From: Lori Fye Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." I'm a little numb, reading that. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:14:40 +0000 From: whizzboom@comcast.net Subject: Very ill... Yikes - she sounds like she's in a delightful mood, not! I said in a post months ago that it had been added to JM's wikipedia entry that she was undergoing treatment for a semi-rare nerve disorder - nobody even acknowledged the post, so I dropped it. Guess it wasn't bullshit after all. I have to be honest - Joni's lived a full life. She's given us all a tremendous amount of joy, of understanding, empathy... and on. And she's been very ill a few times in the last 20 years. So, while I wish her only the best, I don't expect new work that's going to touch me the way her mid-period does. And I've never thought she's going to live forever (I say this in response to her ongoing assertions over the years that her lineage is that of long life, etc - her family simply hasn't lived the racy life that she has... Takes a toll). I guess what I'm trying to say is, while of course I'm upset to hear her admit she's very sick, I'm *more* distraught that she's canning the box. That just really blows. I spoke with my remaining contact at rhino a few weeks ago and he said it was on hold, but would likely come down the pike in that latter part of this year. And *that* was giving me something to hold on for. Cheers, Chris, heading into his 40th birthday burdened with shitty news. *sigh*. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T - -----Original Message----- From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 03:00:17 To: Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #12 onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 16 2010 Volume 2010 : Number 012 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Retro Covers: Volume 46 [Bob Muller ] re: Tracks of Nerina Pallot's Years [Lieve Reckers ] New article: On war, peace, memories and dance [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] New article: Dancing to Joni Mitchell [TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com] "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." ["Les Irvin" Subject: Retro Covers: Volume 46 Wow, does the time fly - seems like just yesterday I was poppin' the champagne and ringing in the new year, and now I'm halfway through January already - dang. Anyway, here's a mid-month retro-covers volume, #46 to either help warm you up or cool you down, depending on where you live. You can download mp3's here: http://tinyurl.com/y95to5d And here's what's on it: 1. Dengue Fever - Both Sides Now 2. The Practicers - Chelsea Morning 3. The Practicers - Carey/This Flight Tonight 4. Spring Fever - Woodstock 5. Des O'Connor - Both Sides Now 6. Iron Savior - This Flight Tonight 7. Jimmy Angel - You're So Square 8. Lorin Grean - Green Fields/Big Yellow Taxi 9. John Cacavas - Both Sides Now 10. Michael Perlowin - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 11. Judd Grossman - Carey 12. Toni Janotta - Twisted 13. Ted Mulry - Both Sides Now 14. Pam Bricker - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 15. Patchy Fogg - Woodstock 16. Catherine Reed - Big Yellow Taxi 17. Syncopation - Both Sides Now 18. Donna Deussen - River 19 David Sanborn - Man From Mars 20. Jumble Lane - The Gallery 21. Gary Gendron - Both Sides Now Here's my writeup about it back when I first issued it, November 2003: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni/v2003.n341 Happy Friday, hippies! Bob NP: Chenoa Clark, "River" - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 00:00:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: re: Tracks of Nerina Pallot's Years Hi William! Well I for one certainly tweaked at the mention of Nerina Pallot's name! I posted about her a few years ago, when my son mentioned Nerina's song "Sophia" to me. It had struck him how "Joni Mitchell-like" that song was, and when I gave it a listen I had to admit that I too felt it was a song that could have been written by Joni. I'm really talking about the music, the chords etc, more than about the lyrics which are simpler than Joni's, though not a million miles away in spirit. It also pleased me no end, of course, that my son had enough of a feeling for Joni's music to hear similarities or influences! You can give the song a listen yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC-Q2rrlZcM I just listened to the radio programme you mentioned, via the "listen again" facility on the BBC website. If anybody wants to do the same, here it is, just scroll down to 9.30 Ken Bruce, Nerina's choice is somewhere in the last 20 minutes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/programmes/schedules She sounds like a really nice intelligent girl. She chose Carey and said it was "the song that shaped her life". I liked the way she described how, at the age of 12, she was struck by the lines in Carey about going to Amsterdam or Rome, and having flowers in her room. She decided there and then that this is how she wanted to lead her life. The DJ, Ken Bruce, rather annoyed me, saying almost as a criticism that Joni Mitchell (like Steely Dan) is a "musicians' musician", implying that the general public don't know or care for them. It would have been different if he had said it as a compliment, i.e. that Joni and Steely Dan are so good that most musicians are fans. But no, he said it almost as if it was a problem, as if Madonna or Michael Jackson had to be the norm. But Nerina answered that very well, she said that people like Joni and Dylan are the ones that will stay. And I almost saw her wink at Mr Muller as she said that Joni had lots of her songs covered! All the best, Lieve in London - - ---------- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:38:48 +0000 From: William Waddell Subject: Tracks of Nerina Pallot's Years On BBC Radio 2 this Friday, Nerina Pallot (who?) chooses a Joni song as one of the Tracks of [Her] Years. As always, I'm intrigued as to what people say about Joni. Available afterwards on iPlayer, if you miss it. WtSx - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 18:06:01 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Tracks of Nerina Pallot's Years not quite there yet, working on it. Still no Dancing Clown. Bob NP: Lydia van Dam, "Love" - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:33:28 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: On war, peace, memories and dance A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: On war, peace, memories and dance Publication: CanWest News Service Date: 2010.1.15 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2200 - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:44:44 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: TheStaff@JoniMitchell.com Subject: New article: Dancing to Joni Mitchell A new article has been added to the Library at JoniMitchell.com: Title: Dancing to Joni Mitchell Publication: Richmond Review Date: 2010.1.14 Read it here: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2201 - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:59:31 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 - ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #12 ******************************** - ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:56:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Tracks of Nerina Pallot's Years Bob, I think it is meant that way. I know you won't agree, but fate has ordained for your own version of Dancing Clown (as performed at the Jonifest last September) to close that gap. You should feature in your own covers collection, it will be the crowning glory! Lieve ________________________________ From: Bob Muller To: Lieve Reckers ; jonipeople LIST Cc: williamwaddell@hotmail.co.uk Sent: Sat, 16 January, 2010 2:06:01 Subject: Re: Tracks of Nerina Pallot's Years not quite there yet, working on it. Still no Dancing Clown. Bob NP: Lydia van Dam, "Love" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:59:40 +0000 From: William Waddell Subject: RE: Tracks of Nerina Pallot's Years >>>You should feature in your own covers collection, it will be the crowning glory! Clowning glory, Shirley! WtSx _________________________________________________________________ Send us your Hotmail stories and be featured in our newsletter http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 11:04:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." Les, that's really bad news! (But thanks for finding it!) What strikes me is that Joni tries to mention it at least 3 times, and that bloody interviewer seems like he wants to ignore it time and time again. Typical stupid "Oh well, let's hope it blows over"-type of reaction. I'm sure that all of us on the JMDL will want to express our sympathy/empathy and send Joni our very best wishes for healing. Lieve - --------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:59:31 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:14:12 -0500 From: Subject: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life That is one of the saddest and most disturbing interviews I have ever read. I almost feel it is exploitive of her and wish it wasn't published. All I can say is God, or someone, please help her. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:57:40 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." Oh, my. My heart is breaking... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 13:13:13 +0100 From: Danilo Monno Subject: RE: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." Oh, no! It's so damn sad. > From: lesirvin@gmail.com > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:59:31 -0700 > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 _________________________________________________________________ Un mondo di personalizzazioni per Messenger, PC e cellulare http://www.pimpit.it/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:08:51 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." Normally, I couldn't imagine anything being bigger news here than the box being dropped, but Les's subject line certainly is--for me anyway. Of course, fighting assumes the possibility of winning, so fight on, Joni. And yes, what's with the interviewer? Joni Mitchell says she's fighting for her life and you don't respond or ask a followup? Michael F. ________________________________ From: Les Irvin To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:59:31 AM Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:28:46 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: "I'm very ill I'm fighting for my life." Well, that was a bombshell. Morgellons, eh? Wiki, the depository of elastic knowledge cites an equivalent description of the Morgellons condition as "delusional parisitosis." I'm sure that whatever Joni is feeling it is not comfortable and of course wish her well and a complete recovery. I didn't see anything in the current description that would indicate the condition is life threatening although persons have been known to take to extreme methods to reduce discomfort. (If you hit the link you'll read that it's definition seems to be both debatable and changing.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons I am concerned. CC _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 08:36:42 -0800 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." Did I misread it? I thought the interviewer did try to follow up on this but then Jean Grand-Maitre of the Alberta Ballet that was also being interviewed with her seemed to wish to protect her and directed the interview away from the topic. The interviewer then respected her privacy and went back to the topic of the ballet. Joni then brings it up again. So she clearly wanted to talk about it and make it known. Here's the excerpt: > Joni Mitchell: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life. > > Jean Grand-Maitre: We're talking about a new ballet maybe, eh, Joni? > > Joni Mitchell: Yeah. We intend to do another one. But I've been very > ill, so mainly I'm just trying to survive. > > Vancouver Sun: Oh really? I didn't know that, sorry. How are you > doing? > > Joni Mitchell: Well, nobody knows. > > Jean Grand-Maitre: Let's stick to the ballet, John, ah? > > Vancouver Sun: Sorry about that. So what's the new ballet? Seems pretty respectful and sympathetic to me. Regardless, it breaks my heart to think that one of the most creative spirits and creative minds today has to put things on hold or stop altogether because of her health. - -Corey - --------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com Live improv comedy every week - http://www.magicmeathands.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 4:08 AM, Michael Flaherty wrote: > Normally, I couldn't imagine anything being bigger news here than > the box being dropped, but Les's subject line certainly is--for me > anyway. > > Of course, fighting assumes the possibility of winning, so fight on, > Joni. > > And yes, what's with the interviewer? Joni Mitchell says she's > fighting for her life and you don't respond or ask a followup? > > Michael F. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Les Irvin > To: joni@smoe.org > Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:59:31 AM > Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 11:52:41 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." I had heard about this back when I was in Ireland in Galway and had the good fortune to see Joni's exhibit there. She has been ill for a long time. It's a scary thing. Joni has been a fighter all her life tho. She has beat all odds many times. Polio as a child, having to give up a child for adoption, the challange of connecting again with that same child, dealing with the male dominated music industry and on and on. She is not giving up here, probably just a little scared. Who wouldn't be. But my money is on Joni Mitchell winning this battle. My support and love to the greatest of all time. It sounds to me like she is working her ass off with projects so, Kick ass Joni! Paz (in NashVegas) Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 16, 2010, at 12:59 AM, Les Irvin wrote: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 10:05:11 -0800 From: "Mark" Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." - -------------------------------------------------- From: "Lieve Reckers" Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:04 AM To: "jonipeople LIST" ; Subject: re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." > Les, that's really bad news! (But thanks for finding it!) > What strikes me is > that Joni tries to mention it at least 3 times, and that bloody > interviewer > seems like he wants to ignore it time and time again. Typical stupid "Oh > well, let's hope it blows over"-type of reaction. I didn't get the impression that the interviewer was trying to blow the subject off. Jean Grand-Maitre seemed to hint that Joni didn't want to discuss it. I think they wanted to keep the focus on the ballet. But you're right, Lieve. Joni did finally give some (though scant) detail about the Morgellons disease. My selfish little inner devil is saying 'oh damn, she probably won't show up when the ballet plays here in Seattle'. But I do hope she can conquer this disease. She has overcome other serious health problems in the past. I, for one, am not ready to lose her. And not just because of missing her at 'TFATD' performance (sorry, Catherine). Aside from the rather sensational statement in the subject line, I thought this was a fascinating piece about the ballet. Thank you again, Les. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 14:29:27 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Morgellons In the lastest interview at http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 Joni said in part, >I've taken a lot of diseases in my life, polio, chicken pox, scarlet fever, dengue fever, three kind of measles. All these things are viral and they stay in your system, so my body is like Afghanistan, it's full of syndromes. It all pools into a disease called morgellons, for which there is no cure. It's a complex infection.> Now Jim again: I've been hesitant to get into this but here's some background on this phenomenon called "Morgellons". At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons Wikipedia said, >Morgellons patients usually self-diagnose on the internet and find support and confirmation in on-line communities of people with similar illness beliefs.[50][43][51]> ... >The LA Times, in an article on Morgellons, notes that "(t)he recent upsurge in symptoms can be traced directly to the Internet, following the naming of the disease by Mary Leitao, a Pennsylvania mother."[51] Robert Bartholomew, a sociologist who has studied the Morgellons phenomenon, states that the "World Wide Web has become the incubator for mass delusion and it (Morgellons) seems to be a socially transmitted disease over the Internet." According to this hypothesis, patients with delusions of parasitosis and other psychological disorders become convinced they have "Morgellons" after reading internet accounts of others with similar symptoms.[53][54]> ... >Most dermatologists, psychiatrists, and other medical professionals view Morgellons as a new name for a well established condition, delusional parasitosis,[41] also known as "delusions of parasitosis" (DP or DOP) and Ekbom's Syndrome: Morgellons is "a pattern of dermatologic symptoms very similar, if not identical, to those of delusions of parasitosis,"[41] and "the vast majority"[26] (elsewhere, 95%)[42] of Morgellons patients are diagnosed with delusional parasitosis or another psychosomatic illness. This explanation is, however, "unpopular among individuals identifying themselves as having Morgellons disease."[43] ... >Dr. Noah Craft, a dermatologist at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance, CA, has seen a handful of Morgellons patients and biopsied their skin lesions, but found only normal skin and inflammation, as one would find in a bump that has been picked at.[14]> Now Jim again: Whatever is bothering her, I think she could use a prayer or two from those who believe. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:00:40 +0000 From: Anita G Subject: Re: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life Gosh, Les, my heart has almost stopped. And, of course, being on the digest (which I must change) I am a day behind. I have just printed off the full transcript of this transcript to go and read. The thought of a world without Joni? I can scarcely contemplate it. I feel like I am a grown up and I know, intellectually, that all things must pass. One day I must pass, my main man Muller must pass, Pas must pass, Lieve must pass, Les must pass. All of my lovely, wonderful friends on JMDL must one day pass. We have lost many wonderful JMDL spirits already and we miss them often. Even my beloved Steph must pass. I know Joni must pass. BUT I am just not ready for this idea at all. Even though I often feel I have spent most of my 56 years contemplating death. The world without Joni? What an enormous pain at the thought. I ignored the morgellons stuff last year. This is a bit harder to find a neat box in my head to file it in. Yours (on a filing run) Anita ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:30:42 -0500 From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Morgellons I don't know anything about Morgellons, but I do know there is a long history in the field of medicine characterizing illnesses as psychosomatic that later turn out to be actual physical conditions. When medicine cannot find evidence for the cause of a collection of symptoms, the condition is dubbed psychosomatic - it can't possibly be that we're not smart enough to identify the underlying problem, right? So it must be all in her head. (and of course often these are disorders largely suffered by women) Just speaking as someone with a chronic condition that was long thought to be psychosomatic and is now recognized as a verifiable disorder of the central nervous system. So although the term Morgellons was propagated on the internet, it's my bet that Joni is not delusional, but is actually suffering. ...well she may be delusional in that she feels she is responsible for single handedly and permanently changing the direction of Hawaiian slack-key guitar. heh. Jenny for the research-inclined here's an excerpt from an abstract of a study published in 2009: CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest Morgellons disease can be characterized as a physical human illness with an often-related delusional component in adults. All medical histories support that behavioral aberrancies onset* only after*physical symptoms. The identified abnormalities include both immune deficiency and chronic inflammatory markers that correlate strongly with immune cytokine excess. The review of 251 current NLM DP references leads us to the possibility that Morgellons disease and DP are grossly truncated labels of the same illness but with the reversal of the cause-effect order. Further, the patients' data suggest that both illnesses have an infectious origin. On 1/16/10, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > In the lastest interview at > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 > Joni said in part, > >I've taken a lot of diseases in my life, polio, chicken pox, scarlet > fever, dengue fever, three kind of measles. All these things are viral > and they stay in your system, so my body is like Afghanistan, it's full > of syndromes. It all pools into a disease called morgellons, for which > there is no cure. It's a complex infection.> > > Now Jim again: > I've been hesitant to get into this but here's some background on this > phenomenon called "Morgellons". > > At > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons > Wikipedia said, > >Morgellons patients usually self-diagnose on the internet and find > support and confirmation in on-line communities of people with similar > illness beliefs.[50][43][51]> > ... > >The LA Times, in an article on Morgellons, notes that "(t)he recent > upsurge in symptoms can be traced directly to the Internet, following the > naming of the disease by Mary Leitao, a Pennsylvania mother."[51] Robert > Bartholomew, a sociologist who has studied the Morgellons phenomenon, > states that the "World Wide Web has become the incubator for mass > delusion and it (Morgellons) seems to be a socially transmitted disease > over the Internet." According to this hypothesis, patients with delusions > of parasitosis and other psychological disorders become convinced they > have "Morgellons" after reading internet accounts of others with similar > symptoms.[53][54]> > ... > >Most dermatologists, psychiatrists, and other medical professionals view > Morgellons as a new name for a well established condition, delusional > parasitosis,[41] also known as "delusions of parasitosis" (DP or DOP) and > Ekbom's Syndrome: Morgellons is "a pattern of dermatologic symptoms very > similar, if not identical, to those of delusions of parasitosis,"[41] and > "the vast majority"[26] (elsewhere, 95%)[42] of Morgellons patients are > diagnosed with delusional parasitosis or another psychosomatic illness. > This explanation is, however, "unpopular among individuals identifying > themselves as having Morgellons disease."[43] > ... > >Dr. Noah Craft, a dermatologist at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, > Torrance, CA, has seen a handful of Morgellons patients and biopsied > their skin lesions, but found only normal skin and inflammation, as one > would find in a bump that has been picked at.[14]> > > Now Jim again: > Whatever is bothering her, I think she could use a prayer or two from > those who believe. > > Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:40:48 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Morgellons I stayed out of this the first time the issue came up, for similar reasons, Jim. I did a search for info on it and anything I found came to a similar conclusion as what you sent. It doesn't sound like a "legitimate" disease and I wondered at the time we first heard about it who had diagnosed Joni or whether she had diagnosed herself. I believe there are studies being done, (the Centres for Disease Control and Kaiser Permanente are doing some kind of research into it), but there doesn't seem to be enough information to suggest that it's an actual disease (caused by a virus, for example), or something psychosomatic or something completely different. The Mayo Clinic has a pretty decent article on it that includes a variety of possible explanations, which include advice to "keep an open mind." http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morgellonsdisease/SN00043 Regardless, whatever it is that's bugging Joni (so to speak), I hope she finds relief for it, if not a cure and that she's with us for a long time. Coincidentally, since you mentioned how people are self-diagnosing and using the internet to get and spread information (and misinformation), there was a recent story in the New York Times called "The Americanization of Mental Illness"that mentioned some interesting conditions know only in certain countries and how anorexia nervosa as it's known in the western world was pretty much unknown in Asia until fairly recently. It's a long one but maybe worth the read to anyone who's interested in these kinds of phenomena. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/magazine/10psyche-t.html ________________________________ From: Jim L'Hommedieu To: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 2:29:27 PM Subject: Morgellons I've been hesitant to get into this but here's some background on this phenomenon called "Morgellons". At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons Wikipedia said, >Morgellons patients usually self-diagnose on the internet and find support and confirmation in on-line communities of people with similar illness beliefs.[50][43][51]> ... >Most dermatologists, psychiatrists, and other medical professionals view Morgellons as a new name for a well established condition, delusional parasitosis,[41] also known as "delusions of parasitosis" (DP or DOP) and Ekbom's Syndrome: Morgellons is "a pattern of dermatologic symptoms very similar, if not identical, to those of delusions of parasitosis,"[41] and "the vast majority"[26] (elsewhere, 95%)[42] of Morgellons patients are diagnosed with delusional parasitosis or another psychosomatic illness. This explanation is, however, "unpopular among individuals identifying themselves as having Morgellons disease."[43] ... Now Jim again: Whatever is bothering her, I think she could use a prayer or two from those who believe. Jim L'Hommedieu __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:50:06 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Morgellons This also is true. I was going to mention "hysteria" in my earlier post but got lazy, so I'm glad you brought this up, Jenny. I was also wondering, in Joni's case, whether this might be related to post-polio syndrome. Some articles I've read mention a possible link to arthritis. There are diseases caused by bacteria and viruses and then again, there are auto-immune diseases (including arthritis) and no one's entirely sure where those start. We know a lot about arthritis and no one doubts that it's for real, but I'm not sure how much is known about why some people's bodies start attacking them like this and why others aren't affected and we don't think of people with arthritis as being crazy. If you're in a lot of pain, it can be very depressing too, so the mental health would suffer along with the physicial. I also know of a few people who had what turned out to be Lyme disease but it took a long time for them to get a proper diagnosis because no one believed it had reached our part of the world at the time, so their doctors dismissed it as being in their head. ________________________________ From: Jenny Goodspeed To: Jim L'Hommedieu Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 3:30:42 PM Subject: Re: Morgellons I don't know anything about Morgellons, but I do know there is a long history in the field of medicine characterizing illnesses as psychosomatic that later turn out to be actual physical conditions. When medicine cannot find evidence for the cause of a collection of symptoms, the condition is dubbed psychosomatic - it can't possibly be that we're not smart enough to identify the underlying problem, right? So it must be all in her head. (and of course often these are disorders largely suffered by women) __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:01:33 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Morgellons Jenny, THANK YOU for saying so well what I wanted to say, and for providing some information other than what can be found on Wikipedia. (No offense to anyone, but while Wikipedia does have a lot of accurate info and is a worthwhile endeavor, folks in the professional fact-checking business consider it only a back-up souce at best.) Nobody knows enough about this condition yet to define it precisely, tho at least it's being taken seriously enough that the CDC and others are performing investigatory trials. (Could you provide the source of the abstract? I'd like to read more.) I think that a lot of us, in our often desperate desire for treatment or a cure, too often forget that medicine is just as much or more an art as it is a science. On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > I don't know anything about Morgellons, but I do know there is a long > history in the field of medicine characterizing illnesses as psychosomatic > that later turn out to be actual physical conditions. When medicine cannot > find evidence for the cause of a collection of symptoms, the condition is > dubbed psychosomatic - it can't possibly be that we're not smart enough to > identify the underlying problem, right? So it must be all in her head. > (and > of course often these are disorders largely suffered by women) > > Just speaking as someone with a chronic condition that was long thought to > be psychosomatic and is now recognized as a verifiable disorder of the > central nervous system. > > So although the term Morgellons was propagated on the internet, it's my bet > that Joni is not delusional, but is actually suffering. > > ...well she may be delusional in that she feels she is responsible > for single handedly and permanently changing the direction of Hawaiian > slack-key guitar. heh. > Jenny > > for the research-inclined here's an excerpt from an abstract of a study > published in 2009: > > CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest Morgellons disease can be characterized as > a > physical human illness with an often-related delusional component in > adults. > All medical histories support that behavioral aberrancies onset* only > after*physical symptoms. The identified abnormalities include both > immune > deficiency and chronic inflammatory markers that correlate strongly with > immune cytokine excess. The review of 251 current NLM DP references leads > us > to the possibility that Morgellons disease and DP are grossly truncated > labels of the same illness but with the reversal of the cause-effect order. > Further, the patients' data suggest that both illnesses have an infectious > origin. > > On 1/16/10, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > > > In the lastest interview at > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 > > Joni said in part, > > >I've taken a lot of diseases in my life, polio, chicken pox, scarlet > > fever, dengue fever, three kind of measles. All these things are viral > > and they stay in your system, so my body is like Afghanistan, it's full > > of syndromes. It all pools into a disease called morgellons, for which > > there is no cure. It's a complex infection.> > > > > Now Jim again: > > I've been hesitant to get into this but here's some background on this > > phenomenon called "Morgellons". > > > > At > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgellons > > Wikipedia said, > > >Morgellons patients usually self-diagnose on the internet and find > > support and confirmation in on-line communities of people with similar > > illness beliefs.[50][43][51]> > > ... > > >The LA Times, in an article on Morgellons, notes that "(t)he recent > > upsurge in symptoms can be traced directly to the Internet, following the > > naming of the disease by Mary Leitao, a Pennsylvania mother."[51] Robert > > Bartholomew, a sociologist who has studied the Morgellons phenomenon, > > states that the "World Wide Web has become the incubator for mass > > delusion and it (Morgellons) seems to be a socially transmitted disease > > over the Internet." According to this hypothesis, patients with delusions > > of parasitosis and other psychological disorders become convinced they > > have "Morgellons" after reading internet accounts of others with similar > > symptoms.[53][54]> > > ... > > >Most dermatologists, psychiatrists, and other medical professionals view > > Morgellons as a new name for a well established condition, delusional > > parasitosis,[41] also known as "delusions of parasitosis" (DP or DOP) and > > Ekbom's Syndrome: Morgellons is "a pattern of dermatologic symptoms very > > similar, if not identical, to those of delusions of parasitosis,"[41] and > > "the vast majority"[26] (elsewhere, 95%)[42] of Morgellons patients are > > diagnosed with delusional parasitosis or another psychosomatic illness. > > This explanation is, however, "unpopular among individuals identifying > > themselves as having Morgellons disease."[43] > > ... > > >Dr. Noah Craft, a dermatologist at the Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, > > Torrance, CA, has seen a handful of Morgellons patients and biopsied > > their skin lesions, but found only normal skin and inflammation, as one > > would find in a bump that has been picked at.[14]> > > > > Now Jim again: > > Whatever is bothering her, I think she could use a prayer or two from > > those who believe. > > > > Jim L'Hommedieu > - -- Some things in life it just gets too late to learn . . . --Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:44:05 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." I read it the same way, Corey. Especially that it seemed that Grand Maitre was being protective of Joni, but perhaps trying to protect her from herself as much as the interviewer? (I'm *not* saying I think Joni needs that---it's possible that GM just wanted to keep all the focus on the ballet.) I wish I could hear (and even better, see) the interview, because so many nuances can be lost when it's just in print. I do agree with Lieve, tho, about the interviewer in general. I would think that someone who works for a major Canadian newspaper would at least take the time to familiarize himself with recent events in his subject's life, such as the deaths (or not) of parents, and a recently reported serious, mysterious affliction. That's just being lazy in my book. If what Paz says is correct, it sounds as if this (or some form of it) has been plaguing Joni for some time. I hope that research into this will continue and bear some positive results and relief soon. On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Corey Blake wrote: > Did I misread it? I thought the interviewer did try to follow up on > this but then Jean Grand-Maitre of the Alberta Ballet that was also > being interviewed with her seemed to wish to protect her and directed > the interview away from the topic. The interviewer then respected her > privacy and went back to the topic of the ballet. Joni then brings it > up again. So she clearly wanted to talk about it and make it known. > > Here's the excerpt: > > > Joni Mitchell: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life. > > > > Jean Grand-Maitre: We're talking about a new ballet maybe, eh, Joni? > > > > Joni Mitchell: Yeah. We intend to do another one. But I've been very > > ill, so mainly I'm just trying to survive. > > > > Vancouver Sun: Oh really? I didn't know that, sorry. How are you > > doing? > > > > Joni Mitchell: Well, nobody knows. > > > > Jean Grand-Maitre: Let's stick to the ballet, John, ah? > > > > Vancouver Sun: Sorry about that. So what's the new ballet? > > > Seems pretty respectful and sympathetic to me. > > Regardless, it breaks my heart to think that one of the most creative > spirits and creative minds today has to put things on hold or stop > altogether because of her health. > > -Corey > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me > > Do you Dig Comics? http://www.digcomics.com > > Live improv comedy every week - http://www.magicmeathands.com > > > On Jan 16, 2010, at 4:08 AM, Michael Flaherty wrote: > > > Normally, I couldn't imagine anything being bigger news here than > > the box being dropped, but Les's subject line certainly is--for me > > anyway. > > > > Of course, fighting assumes the possibility of winning, so fight on, > > Joni. > > > > And yes, what's with the interviewer? Joni Mitchell says she's > > fighting for her life and you don't respond or ask a followup? > > > > Michael F. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Les Irvin > > To: joni@smoe.org > > Sent: Sat, January 16, 2010 12:59:31 AM > > Subject: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." > > > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=2203 > - -- Some things in life it just gets too late to learn . . . --Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 15:51:26 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Morgellons Ah, Kate, sounds like a fascinating job! I've just added your site to my "RefResearch" links. Thanks! Terra On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Kate Johnson wrote: > > On 16-Jan-10, at 3:01 PM, T Peckham wrote: > > folks in the professional fact-checking business >> consider it only a back-up souce at best. >> > > hear ye, hear ye! > > Kate of the North > > -- > Kate Johnson, subject editor > architecturedancefilmtheatre > The Canadian Encyclopedia > http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com > The Canadian Encyclopedia, the most respected authority on all things > Canadian for more than 20 years, is now available free online. It is used by > students across the country and Canadians around the world. The > Historica-Dominion Institute is Canadas largest organization dedicated to > Canadian history, identity and citizenship. > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE : The content of this e-mail is confidential, may be > privileged and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. Any other > person is strictly prohibited from disclosing, distributing or reproducing > it. Thank you. > > AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITI : Le contenu de ce courriel est confidentiel, peut > jtre protigi par le secret professionnel et est ` l'usage exclusif du > destinataire mentionni ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par les prisentes > avisie qu'il lui est strictement interdit de diffuser, distribuer ou > reproduire ce message. Merci. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- Some things in life it just gets too late to learn . . . --Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:12:21 +0000 From: joe farrell Subject: "i'm very ill, i'm fighting for my life" this is really worrying news. such a shock really, i mean i read about her having morgellon's disease but i didn't think it was life threatening. "i'm fighting for my life" just left me feeling desolate. hope joni gets through this and is feeling better soon. joe. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:06:03 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." - -----Original Message----- >It's not quite down at the level of the National Enquirer or >the News of the World, but it's not well-respected either. It seems like Joni is, perhaps aware of this. She seemed to have a thinly veiled disdain for this interviewer ("That's such a stupid question") and the guy certainly did no research before the interview - asking about her mother (he should have known) and asking if Brian Blade is an "LA session guy" (again, he should have known). I do get the impression that Joni wanted to talk about the illness but Jean Grand-Maitre tried to steer it in the other direction. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:44:46 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life Fighting for her life? I don't buy it, personally. Joni is a very dramatic personality and my opinion is that she tends to exaggerate the troubles in her life. I realize that is an incredibly presumptuous statement, given that I obviously do not know Joni personally. I guess I can smell a hypochondriac, being one myself. I hope this doesn't sound unkind. I remember Joni saying once she expected to grow into a cantankerous old lady, swinging her cane at people and writing nasty letters to the editor. I fully expect that she will do this. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:55:32 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life I completely agree with you, Deb. Jerry On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Deb Messling wrote: > Fighting for her life? I don't buy it, personally. Joni is a very > dramatic personality and my opinion is that she tends to exaggerate the > troubles in her life. I realize that is an incredibly presumptuous > statement, given that I obviously do not know Joni personally. I guess I > can smell a hypochondriac, being one myself. I hope this doesn't sound > unkind. I remember Joni saying once she expected to grow into a > cantankerous old lady, swinging her cane at people and writing nasty letters > to the editor. I fully expect that she will do this. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Deb Messling -^..^- > dlmessling@rcn.com > http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:54:35 -0800 (PST) From: Mags Subject: RE: "I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life." - --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Les Irvin wrote: From: Les Irvin lesirvin@gmail.com I do get the impression that Joni wanted to talk about the illness but Jean Grand-Maitre tried to steer it in the other direction. *** same here, Les and who knows why Grand-Maitre steered her away ...perhaps he was trying to protect her from the interviewer who clearly had no clue as to who he was talking to. who knows. annoying just the same. research man research, it's not that difficult. i'm sorry for her; but more importantly, i believe her. , no matter what this is that she's dealing with,. she's clearly in a lot of discomfort/pain/angst about it. poor Joni. it seems like she's always got to defend herself on every front,. as if she needs to legitimize the way she feels. if she feels that bad, she feels that bad, why does she have to qualify/quantify anything. Mags, writing from the corner of the room as usual ;-) __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:05:17 -0500 From: Subject: Joni's illness I agree that many illnesses previously characterized as psychosomatic were later found to be real and legitimate and I do keep an open mind with Morgellans. I;m glad more studies and research are being done to solve the mystery of it. However, I have this nagging feeling that Joni may be suffering from some other condition. I wonder how much she has consulted with specialists (and she has some of the best in the world right down the street at UCLA Medical Center). I was diagnosed with a rare neurological condition some years back which was much later found to be incorrect and that I simply had some severe vitamin deficiencies. It could be something as simple and non-exotic as that with Joni. I hope she has had several consulations and second opinions. Some of what disturbed me about this interview was that I thought that her desire to discuss her illness was given short shrift, seemingly in favor of promoting the ballet tour and the possibility of another second ballet. I know it's hard to read and decipher between the lines of a printed interview, apparently conducted in a three-way telephone conference call. Also, as Jenny wrote: "...well she may be delusional in that she feels she is responsible for single handedly and permanently changing the direction of Hawaiian slack-key guitar. heh." That one threw me along with Joni's thought that she single-handedly changed the basic form of ballet. And there's more but I'll leave it at that. Also her statements about Amchitka being about nuclear testing on the San Andreas fault. The San Andreas fault ends in Northern California, near Mendocino. It is thousands and thousands of miles south of Amchitka, the southermost Aleutian island which is only 800 miles from Russia. Perhaps she was confusing it with the later protests in the 1980s of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant that was built near a much smaller fault in central California. I wonder how much her closest friends have tried to help her with her suffering? Maybe they have tried a lot, maybe she is stubborn. I just didn't like the feel of this interview - someone so obviously ill and it felt like they all still just want a piece of her. Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2010 #13 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe