From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #284 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, October 20 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 284 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: In Respect of the Black Man [Mark-Leon Thorne ] RE: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs ["Les Irvin" ] Re: Empire Hotel [gerard mclaughlin ] cactustreemotel@gmail.com has shared something with you [cactustreemotel@] Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs [Garret ] Re: Empire Hotel ["Gary Z." ] RE: Empire Hotel ["Les Irvin" ] Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) SJC [Mags ] Re: Empire Hotel [Mags ] Re: Empire Hotel p.s. [Mags ] Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs [Lieve Reckers ] RE: Empire Hotel ["Watts, Lesli" ] Re: Empire Hotel [Catherine McKay ] Re: Empire Hotel ["Gary Z." ] Re: Empire Hotel [Dflahm@aol.com] Fwd: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs [gerard mclaughlin ] Re: In Respect of the Black Man [waytoblue@comcast.net] Re: Empire Hotel [Rose M Joy ] Edith sheets [Danilo Monno ] Re: Empire Hotel [Catherine McKay ] Re: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) [Mags ] Re: Empire Hotel [Rose M Joy ] Re: Empire Hotel [Gerald Notaro ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:06:41 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: In Respect of the Black Man Thanks for chiming in, Melissa. I don't believe one can compare the issues around Australian aboriginal people with what African Americans went through. There really is nothing similar. For a start, white Europeans invaded an already occupied country and displaced a native people, whereas, white Europeans in North America imported people from another continent for the sole purpose of slavery. A very different issue. The United States and Australia had other issues that were far more similar. Firstly, Australia did dabble in a slave trade for a very short period with Pacific Island nations. The aboriginal issue is more like America's issue with the displacement of their own native races and subsequent problems with unemployment, alcoholism and domestic violence when trying to assimilate them into the European based culture. I don't think the more apt comparison of a white American dressing up in a reddish make up and feathered head dress and dancing around a campfire would have quite the same impact as the black face sketch. This issue came about in my mind when I began to wonder what impact Joni's appearances in black face occurred. I have heard that it was controversial but, in what way? Was it taken as an insult to the African American community or to the "white" community? BTW As far as I remember, Australians never used the terms, "black" and "white" to identify people's skin until it was heard in American media. I remember thinking as a child, "Why are they saying, 'black'? That person's skin is brown". Just as the word, Nigger is not actually from the English language but a slang word from the USA which is why it has no context or history in other countries. Does anyone have any direct memory of their impressions or know what the attitude of Americans were when that album cover was revealed? I didn't even know that it was Joni on the cover until just a couple of years ago. I never heard anyone mention it. Mark in Sydney NP King Without a Crown - ABC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:27:18 -0400 From: Susan E McNamara Subject: RE: Report from the Ithaca, NY Joni Mitchell Tribute Show, Friday Oct 16, 2009 My favorite Kay story from fest is when she was explaining in a song circle that "It is important to get the low string right and then tune the other strings within the cloud" I was taking notes during that conversation. Kay if I've misquoted you let me know but I think I got the gist of what you were saying. She is the tuning master (and her awesome guitar obeys her every whim)!!! :-) sue - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Paz [mailto:michael@thepazgroup.com] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:49 PM To: Cassy Cc: Susan E McNamara; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Report from the Ithaca, NY Joni Mitchell Tribute Show, Friday Oct 16, 2009 KAY is a FREAK!!!!! On Oct 19, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Cassy wrote: Susan regaled us with stories of the Ithaca Tribute Show ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:12:40 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Tribute in Ithaca In a message dated 10/20/09 3:49:17 AM, owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org writes: > From: Susan E McNamara > Subject: Report from the Ithaca, NY Joni Mitchell Tribute Show, Friday Oct > 16, 2009 > > Joni Mitchell Tribute Night > Community School of Music and Art > Ithaca, NY > Friday, October 16, 2009, 7:00 p.m. > > Wondering if there are any recordings available of the event that could be shared. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:22:07 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs I felt sure someone must have chosen A Case of You on Radio 4's Desert Island Discs and now I've remembered. It was Meera Syal, actress in Kumas at No 42. So now the list is :- River - Renee Fleming - 18/11/05 Sometimes I'm Happy - Sir Simon Rattle - Jan 08 For Free - David Gilmore 6/4/? Night Ride Home- Nick Hornby - 28/09/? Help Me - Sebastian Faulks - 28/3/09 Shades of Scarlet Conquering - Jack Vettriano ? California - Steve Coogan - 11/10/09 A Case of You - Meera Syal and you know there must be more. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:01:43 -0400 From: Susan E McNamara Subject: RE: Report from the Ithaca, NY Joni Mitchell Tribute Show, Friday Oct 16, 2009 Hi Cassy! There was a sound man at the event, but I'm not sure if it was recorded or not. I'll find out and let you all know. I am a Tunaholic!! (does that mean I can't eat tunafish, too?) groan! Take care, Sue - -----Original Message----- From: Cassy [mailto:Siquomb@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:29 PM To: Susan E McNamara; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Report from the Ithaca, NY Joni Mitchell Tribute Show, Friday Oct 16, 2009 Susan regaled us with stories of the Ithaca Tribute Show <<< At last, my favorite and dear friend, Patti Witten, came up to the stage donned in blonde wig, to play the finale. She performed wonderful versions of For The Roses and Hejira (bravely re-tuning in between songs!). Patti's own songwriting hits me emotionally in much the same way as Joni's and I encourage everyone to go to her website and hear some of her beautiful songs (and buy a CD too http://www.pattiwitten.com ). Not long ago I was privileged to sit in her living room and hear her play the song You're So Mine from her latest CD Tell The Wind. Weeping! She's so talented. >>> Thanks so much for this report, Susan. Did anyone make a recording at all? Speaking of tuning between songs, my husband, Brad, who attended Joni Fest with me laughingly said the guitar players at JoniFest were "Tuneaholics," he teasingly wondered if there was a 12-step program for them? I thought it was pretty funny. I had explained to him about the different tunings for different songs and he was well-aware of why it was necessary but watching Kay (the fastest tuneaholic in the West) he *really* understood. love, Cassy NP: Sufjan Stevens - To Be Alone with You ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:41:38 +0100 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs does anyone know if we can still access Joni's choices on Desert Island Discs ? I'm sure she did the programme a number of years ago. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:22 PM, wrote: > I felt sure someone must have chosen A Case of You on Radio 4's Desert > Island Discs and now I've remembered. It was Meera Syal, actress in Kumas > at > No 42. > So now the list is :- > > > River - Renee Fleming - 18/11/05 > Sometimes I'm Happy - Sir Simon Rattle - Jan 08 > For Free - David Gilmore 6/4/? > Night Ride Home- Nick Hornby - 28/09/? > Help Me - Sebastian Faulks - 28/3/09 > Shades of Scarlet Conquering - Jack Vettriano ? > California - Steve Coogan - 11/10/09 > A Case of You - Meera Syal > > and you know there must be more. > > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:53:44 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Empire Hotel Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the Library about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone know? Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:14:58 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs My Top 12: http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=619 - -----Original Message----- does anyone know if we can still access Joni's choices on Desert Island Discs ? I'm sure she did the programme a number of years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:16:04 +0100 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: Empire Hotel i just googled the empire hotel. Les and there are a few. One block from Central Park there's one and it's been there for a hundred years. There's also one at 1718, McIntyre Street , Saskatchewen...Perhaps with a little money riding on the Maple leaves that might be the one , just a guess and my tuppence worth. ... On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as > referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the > Library > about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone > know? > > > > Thanks, > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:24:54 -0400 From: cactustreemotel@gmail.com Subject: cactustreemotel@gmail.com has shared something with you Print copy has file picture of Joni in her house circa 1968 http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/driving-through-los-angeles-canyons/1/ - --- This message was sent by cactustreemotel@gmail.com via http://addthis.com. Please note that AddThis does not verify email addresses. Make sharing easier with the AddThis Toolbar: http://www.addthis.com/go/toolbar-em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:29:12 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs I didn't know Joni did Desert Island Discs; I certainly don't remember it. I'd love to hear that. I'd say that her choices might be similar to some of those that she chose for that starbucks CD that was released a few years ago. It makes for some good listening. GARRET On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 4:41 PM, gerard mclaughlin wrote: > does anyone know if we can still access Joni's choices on Desert Island > Discs ? I'm sure she did the programme a number of years ago. > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:22 PM, wrote: > >> I felt sure someone must have chosen A Case of You on Radio 4's Desert >> Island Discs and now I've remembered. It was Meera Syal, actress in Kumas >> at >> No 42. >> So now the list is :- >> >> >> River - Renee Fleming - 18/11/05 >> Sometimes I'm Happy - Sir Simon Rattle - Jan 08 >> For Free - David Gilmore 6/4/? >> Night Ride Home- Nick Hornby - 28/09/? >> Help Me - Sebastian Faulks - 28/3/09 >> Shades of Scarlet Conquering - Jack Vettriano ? >> California - Steve Coogan - 11/10/09 >> A Case of You - Meera Syal >> >> and you know there must be more. >> >> Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:39:16 -0400 From: "Gary Z." Subject: Re: Empire Hotel *Hi Les, My guess is that this is the one in Vancouver: http://www.hotel--canada.com/empire_landmark_vancouver.html It even says it has a C9 Live "lounge" on the 42nd floor, featuring "cool jazz nightly." Sounds like Joni's kind of place to me...but just a guess... Best regards, Gary Z. Detroit* Les Irvin wrote: > Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as > referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the Library > about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone > know? > > > > Thanks, > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:44:30 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Empire Hotel I got a message from the website that prompted the question: http://tinyurl.com/ykdrnqa The Empire Hotel in Huntsville, Ontario, was devastated by fire earlier this month. Nobody was hurt, though several pets were lost, 75 people are now homeless and about half a dozen businesses have had to close. The bar in the bottom of the building, now known as The Hideaway, was flooded with 4-6 feet of water as the firefighters tried to douse the blaze. Some jazz musicians were just beginning to play when the building had to be evacuated; they left their instruments on the stage. Owner Dave Keay had been working for much of the past decade to restore the historic hotel. He'd put his heart and soul into the project and, now, we are all waiting to hear if it can be salvaged. It will be a tremendous loss to the community, if it must be torn down. I am one of the key organizers of a benefit concert for the fire victims being planned for Nov. 5 or 6. Entitled "The Empire Strikes a Chord," it will primarily feature performers who have played at the Empire. It has been said that "Raised on Robbery" was written about this very Empire Hotel. Can Joni confirm or deny this? I would like to be able to mention it during the benefit show - I'll be one of the MCs. Thanks, Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:38:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) SJC Just saw Amy in a small venue this week, wanted to shine the light on her because I know that there are many fans of Canadian music here. On Amy's website, Herizons lays out a comparison to Joni Mitchell. Nice compliment. I think I read somewhere that Amy opened for Eric Anderson at Hugh's Room. I wonder if it was the show where Joni showed up with Kilauren and Klein? . Amy's got a great sense of humour, as well as a powerhouse of a voice. A great story teller too. Received her CDs nice gift that one. I am listening to her live one entitled Architecture, Live at the Opera House...the Opera House in Lunenberg, Nova Scotia. Oh Heart, Oh Highway is a wonderful CD as well. anyway, she's really good and I hope you enjoy one of my newest musical discoveries au Canada. If you are so inclined, have a look/listen. http://www.amycampbell.ca/ let me know what you think... with tonnes of love always, Mags __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:46:34 +0100 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs Thanks, Les. Thorougly enjoyed that...you know ! I remember listening to it at the time and being well impressed with her choices especially Nyro. i liked what she had to say about Rickie Lee jones too and agree wholeheartedly. I think our Rickie is a bit miffed about Joni these days though. She has a new album coming out soon which is exciting. I thought joni had done Desert Island discs and was keen to know what book apart form the bible she would take with her and her choice of luxury but I guess she never did do it then which is a pity. Again, thankyou for getting back to me.All good wishes! On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Les Irvin wrote: > My Top 12: > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=619 > > -----Original Message----- > does anyone know if we can still access Joni's choices on Desert Island > Discs ? I'm sure she did the programme a number of years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:47:46 -0400 From: "Gary Z." Subject: Re: Empire Hotel Of course, there is an Empire Hotel in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, too! They have the renowned "Licensed Beverage Room!" :-) Gary Z. http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/TAW2902.php Les Irvin wrote: > Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as > referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the Library > about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone > know? > > > > Thanks, > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Empire Hotel There's an Empire Hotel here in Winnipeg. Is this the one? Mags np: Oh Heart, Oh Highway by Amy Campbell ps...do go to her website and you'll hear a bunch of her tunes just for sitting there...fab fab stuff!!! - --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Les Irvin wrote: From: Les Irvin Subject: Empire Hotel To: "'jonipeople'" Received: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 11:53 AM Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the Library about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone know? Thanks, Les __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Empire Hotel p.s. http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/hrb/prov/p008.html - --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Les Irvin wrote: From: Les Irvin Subject: Empire Hotel To: "'jonipeople'" Received: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 11:53 AM Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the Library about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone know? Thanks, Les __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:02:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs Gerard, I am really surprised that you think Joni has been a guest on Desert Island Disc, I really hope you are right because I'd love to hear more about it! I do remember Joan Baez a few years ago, though. (She did not choose any Joni, but I do remember she picked a Dylan song and made the comment that nobody ever really gets to know Dylan.) Unfortunately, I don't think there is any official way of digging that far into past programmes. It's a miracle already that at last we can listen again on the website to the more recent programmes. (Not sure if that's the reason, but I know the family of the original presenter and inventor of the programme, the late Roy Plumley, held a very tight grip on the programme through the rights they had inherited.) My best suggestion, if you want to dig deeper, is to go to the programme's website via the BBC Radio 4 website, and I remember there is some sort of "devoted listeners of DID" discussion list. If anybody has more details and knows about Joni's contribution to the programme, you may well find him or her there! Sorry not to do the research myself right now, but I have some urgent stuff with nasty deadlines to deal with! Good luck and do let us know what you find! Lieve PS Jackie, thanks very much for starting this list. If I ever come across more, I will make sure to let you know! Meera Syal was one I didn't get to hear. Do you have the rest of her choices? ________________________________ From: gerard mclaughlin To: Gertus@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org; lievereckers@yahoo.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, 20 October, 2009 16:41:38 Subject: Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs does anyone know if we can still access Joni's choices on Desert Island Discs ? I'm sure she did the programme a number of years ago. On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:22 PM, wrote: I felt sure someone must have chosen A Case of You on Radio 4's Desert >Island Discs and now I've remembered. It was Meera Syal, actress in Kumas at >No 42. >So now the list is :- > > >River - Renee Fleming - 18/11/05 >Sometimes I'm Happy - Sir Simon Rattle - Jan 08 >For Free - David Gilmore 6/4/? >Night Ride Home- Nick Hornby - 28/09/? >Help Me - Sebastian Faulks - 28/3/09 >Shades of Scarlet Conquering - Jack Vettriano ? >California - Steve Coogan - 11/10/09 >A Case of You - Meera Syal > >and you know there must be more. > >Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:10:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Empire Hotel I doubt that Joni will bother to confirm or deny anything, but personally I think the speaker can say that "it is likely the setting for Joni Mitchell's song 'Raised on Robbery', where the patron in the bar in the Empire Hotel has 'a little money riding on the Maple Leaves'." Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:20:00 -0700 From: "Watts, Lesli" Subject: RE: Empire Hotel hmm. i think it's the one in Vancouver, too. procrastinating, i googled the history of this one and a tripadvisor critique said it's stuck in the seventies. and the song was written in the early seventies. Another case of everybody thinking the song is their song... ________________________________ From: owner-joni@smoe.org on behalf of Les Irvin Sent: Tue 10/20/2009 9:44 AM To: 'jonipeople' Subject: RE: Empire Hotel I got a message from the website that prompted the question: http://tinyurl.com/ykdrnqa The Empire Hotel in Huntsville, Ontario, was devastated by fire earlier this month. Nobody was hurt, though several pets were lost, 75 people are now homeless and about half a dozen businesses have had to close. The bar in the bottom of the building, now known as The Hideaway, was flooded with 4-6 feet of water as the firefighters tried to douse the blaze. Some jazz musicians were just beginning to play when the building had to be evacuated; they left their instruments on the stage. Owner Dave Keay had been working for much of the past decade to restore the historic hotel. He'd put his heart and soul into the project and, now, we are all waiting to hear if it can be salvaged. It will be a tremendous loss to the community, if it must be torn down. I am one of the key organizers of a benefit concert for the fire victims being planned for Nov. 5 or 6. Entitled "The Empire Strikes a Chord," it will primarily feature performers who have played at the Empire. It has been said that "Raised on Robbery" was written about this very Empire Hotel. Can Joni confirm or deny this? I would like to be able to mention it during the benefit show - I'll be one of the MCs. Thanks, Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:41:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Empire Hotel I've always pictured it as being more like this one, Gary. Something rundown and seedy, not very big, in a small town, probably in the prairies or northern Ontario. There are probably hundreds of Empire Hotels. It would have to be in Canada, because of the reference to the Maple Leafs (not Leaves in this instance - it's a hockey thing and proper English be damned.) I don't really see Westerners as being Leafs fans, although back when the song was written, there were far fewer teams in the NHL, so there wasn't a lot of choice. At that time (early 70s) probably the only Canadian teams would have been the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadiens. There would only have been maybe 12 teams altogether. Although I'd have thought the west would hate Toronto and not support them, I guess supporting Montreal would be considered worse, so it could be western Canada as well. On the other hand, some people would probably root for any of the American teams rather than support either Toronto or Montreal. Anyone from, or who was living in western Canada in the early 70s and who remembered such things, might want to weigh in on that. That "licensed beverage room" thing reminds me of how there used to be separate entrances or maybe even separate drinking areas for "Men" and "Ladies and escorts" in those hotels. That may be a strictly Ontario thing that went along with there being no way to look in the windows because you might see people (gasp!) drinking alcohol. - ----- Original Message ---- > From: Gary Z. > To: Les Irvin > Cc: jonipeople > Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 12:47:46 PM > Subject: Re: Empire Hotel > > Of course, there is an Empire Hotel in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, too! > > They have the renowned "Licensed Beverage Room!" :-) > > Gary Z. > > http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/TAW2902.php > > Les Irvin wrote: > > Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as > > referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the Library > > about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone > > know? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:07:29 -0400 From: "Gary Z." Subject: Re: Empire Hotel Hi Catherine, Yes, I agree that the song suggests to me that maybe it's a smaller hotel in some Canadian town. The only thing that makes me think that perhaps it could be the Vancouver Hotel - maybe Joni stayed there once or twice while her home was being built up there? I remember when I visited New York in the 70s we stayed at the Empire Hotel there, just thinking it *could* be the place and because we were so enamored with Joni. I think that was just after Court and Spark was released. We weren't thinking about the Maple Leafs connection back then. I haven't been to Toronto in years, but I do remember one of the first times I visited, it was really strange to go into bars where you weren't allowed to carry your drink around the place. You had to stay seated until your drink was gone. Am I remembering that right? It was a long, long, time ago! The Empire Hotel question is one I'd love to ask Joni if I ever had the chance to meet her again. And you know there may be more..... Gary Z. np: Laura Nyro - Enough of You Catherine McKay wrote: > I've always pictured it as being more like this one, Gary. Something rundown and seedy, not very big, in a small town, probably in the prairies or northern Ontario. There are probably hundreds of Empire Hotels. > > It would have to be in Canada, because of the reference to the Maple Leafs (not Leaves in this instance - it's a hockey thing and proper English be damned.) I don't really see Westerners as being Leafs fans, although back when the song was written, there were far fewer teams in the NHL, so there wasn't a lot of choice. At that time (early 70s) probably the only Canadian teams would have been the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadiens. There would only have been maybe 12 teams altogether. > > Although I'd have thought the west would hate Toronto and not support them, I guess supporting Montreal would be considered worse, so it could be western Canada as well. On the other hand, some people would probably root for any of the American teams rather than support either Toronto or Montreal. > > Anyone from, or who was living in western Canada in the early 70s and who remembered such things, might want to weigh in on that. > > That "licensed beverage room" thing reminds me of how there used to be separate entrances or maybe even separate drinking areas for "Men" and "Ladies and escorts" in those hotels. That may be a strictly Ontario thing that went along with there being no way to look in the windows because you might see people (gasp!) drinking alcohol. > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> From: Gary Z. >> To: Les Irvin >> Cc: jonipeople >> Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 12:47:46 PM >> Subject: Re: Empire Hotel >> >> Of course, there is an Empire Hotel in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, too! >> >> They have the renowned "Licensed Beverage Room!" :-) >> >> Gary Z. >> >> http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/TAW2902.php >> >> Les Irvin wrote: >> >>> Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as >>> referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the Library >>> about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. Anyone >>> know? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:07:43 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Empire Hotel Is it likely that a 42-story hotel existed in Vancouver when JM wrote the song? LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:15:08 +0100 From: gerard mclaughlin Subject: Fwd: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: gerard mclaughlin Date: Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:09 PM Subject: Re: Joni choices on Desert Island Discs To: Lieve Reckers On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 6:02 PM, Lieve Reckers wrote: > Gerard, > I am really surprised that you think Joni has been a guest on Desert Island > Disc, I really hope you are right because I'd love to hear more about it! > Sorry not to do the research myself right now, but I have some urgent stuff > with nasty deadlines to deal with! > > Good luck and do let us know what you find! > Lieve > > Lieve, I am so sorry to disappoint you but I think I got it wrong. In fact > I am certain of it. It was another BBC interview altogether/ Someone once > told me that Joni had indeed done DID and pointed out that she had included > a number of her own songs as her choices ! The f(r)iend was trying to > convince me that , yawn yawn, our Joni's ego was indeed the size of > Mussoloni's. I have searched for years for a copy of it. With all the recent > mention of Desert Island Discs here on the list I somehow got the urge for > going on my search again...to no avail and have wound up a sort of a > portrait of disappointment...my favourite theme. I got so excited at the > prospect of it all again. Flat tyres, lead baloons on this one I'm afraid. > Never mind there's more good to come I'm sure.My interminable dream of a new > album has resurrected. Can I cope with this? Years of waiting for Joni.... > oh let her little light shine! Lhasa de Sala. de cara a la pared. > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:21:17 -0400 From: "Gary Z." Subject: Re: Empire Hotel According to the hotel clerk who checked for me when I called, it was built in 1973. Best, Gary Z. Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > Is it likely that a 42-story hotel existed in Vancouver when JM wrote > the song? > > > LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:40:36 +0000 (UTC) From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: In Respect of the Black Man - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark-Leon Thorne" To: migibbs@optusnet.com.au Cc: "jmdl LIST" Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:06:41 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: In Respect of the Black Man //I don't think the more apt comparison of a white American dressing up in a reddish make up and feathered head dress and dancing around a campfire would have quite the same impact as the black face sketch.// It wouldn't have quite the same impact but it would definitely have a negative impact, especially to those who are or feel some connection with Native Americans. There has even been uproars from some here in America over professional and college sports teams simply calling themselves the Seminoles or the Braves and teams using tomahawks and a tomahawk chop to cheer on the team. The tomahawk chop is still done here in Atlanta when the Braves are trying to rally. Personally, I don't have a problem with it but I can understand why some people may have a heightened sensitivity. //This issue came about in my mind when I began to wonder what impact Joni's appearances in black face occurred. I have heard that it was controversial but, in what way? Was it taken as an insult to the African American community or to the "white" community?// I think when dealing with how to react to something "controversial" I would one, consider the person(s) involved, their character, charisma, what I know about them, etc....and two, what their intention(s) is. I can watch the Dave Chappelle Show and laugh all day as he is a brilliant comedian and very good at making light of our insecurities about race, religion, cultural morays and pokes fun at his own race ( he is black) as much as any other. I might react in a very different way to someone else. Being in the South, I occasionally come into contact with the "redneck" mentality who are generally very prejudiced and can be very offensive in their dialogue and mannerisms. I highly respect Joni Mitchell so I would give her the benefit of the doubt before I react to anything she does/did. On the other hand, if I don't know someone at all and they made some comment or did something controversial, I would also hesitate as well and really try to see where they were coming from before I react. Victor, waiting for the stork to arrive any day with a bundle of joy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:47:42 -0400 From: Rose M Joy Subject: Re: Empire Hotel There is a hotel in NYC.... Sent from my iPhone On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:53 AM, "Les Irvin" wrote: > Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as > referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the > Library > about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. > Anyone > know? > > > > Thanks, > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:57:21 +0200 From: Danilo Monno Subject: Edith sheets Hi guys! I know I'm always coming up with such requests, but, you know, you're my only hope! I'm taking voice lessons and my teacher would like me to sing Edith, but she needs the sheetmusic and I can't find anywhere : ( Doeas anybody have the scans from the HOSL songbook?? I'd really appreciate that. BACI Danilo _________________________________________________________________ Gossip, Sport, Notizie... Accendi la Messenger TV! http://www.messenger.it/messengerTV.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:59:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Empire Hotel Wow! You're absolutely right about that! Back in those days, you could NOT carry your drink to another table. You had to have the waiter take it for you. I had forgotten about that. also, if you wanted to buy alcohol, you would go to the LCBO (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) store and you had to write out your request from a catalogue on a piece of paper and one of the counter staff would go and get it for you. You couldn't walk around browing the wine selection. It was just a counter with some catalogues listing names of wines or alcohols with a number next to it and you would request it by number. Behind the counter were the shelves where they kept "the stuff," but you never actually got to see it until they brought your bottle to you (and then it went in a plain brown paper bag so no one would see it when you left.) Nowadays the LCBO stores are really nice. You can walk around and they've got all kinds of different items on display. They even have cooking demonstrations and suggest a wine to go with it and sometimes there are tasting sessions as well. What a world of difference from the old Presbyterian-Ontario days! In any case, "Raised on Robbery" reminds me of those weird old days when they had the "Ladies and escorts" entrances and I think of the character in this song as one of those "ladies" who went in without an "escort." I guess a woman drinking on her own was not acceptable. I see a smelly bar room, the kind where you can order ten glasses of beer for a buck (you could back then) and it always reeked of beer because someone was always spilling it. Everyone smoked and the place stunk of stale cigarette smoke. The room was dark because there were no windows. There's this TV above the bar, black and white probably. Everything is in dark wood and it has seen better days. This woman is sitting at a table drinking gin and gettin' loaded. She's got bottle-blonde hair that might have been done up nice, but it's falling all over the place now because the hair spray is losing its hold. She's wearing a skirt that's too tight and a low-cut blouse with ruffles all over it. It's kind of slipped off one shoulder. She's looking around for some guy to take her home. She might not be a hooker in the regular sense, but maybe she has a crappy job, or maybe she's out of work right now. She's getting a bit long in the tooth and she drinks too much and she's looking for some guy who will buy her dinner and give her a good time. He's just travelling through. Maybe he's a salesman or something, for some product no one has ever heard of and that isn't very exciting. He just wants to watch the hockey game and then get some sleep. Think characters in an Edward Hopper painting, or "Nighthawks at the diner." That's the kind of image I get from this song. > >From: Gary Z. >To: Catherine McKay >Cc: Les Irvin ; jonipeople >Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 2:07:29 PM >Subject: Re: Empire Hotel > >Hi Catherine, > > >I haven't been to Toronto in years, but I do remember one of the first times I visited, it was really strange to go into bars where you weren't allowed to carry your drink around the place. You had to stay seated until your drink was gone. Am I remembering that right? It was a long, long, time ago! > > __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:09:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) Ron..so nice to hear from you!! where is river??? ack i didnt even know about it..Bob, you listenin?? I did find, however, her Springsteen cover (that other Bruce ;P... umm Bob, you listenin? Mags - --- On Tue, 10/20/09, ron g wrote: From: ron g Subject: Re: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) To: "Mags" , joni@smoe.org Received: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 2:14 PM was sjc but definitely jc now :-) good pick here mags. ive downloaded most of the tracks off the website & started listening. love the music. not too sure about the voice on some of the tracks, where she kind of seems to do the generic singer/songwriter type twang to her voice (if that makes any sense) and what a beautiful version of river......and not even listed in the covers project yet!! listen to her singing here. relaxed, comfortable. what a great performance. http://www.amycampbell.ca/soundboardscrapbook.html ron - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mags" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) SJC > Just saw Amy in a small venue this week, wanted to shine the light on her > because I know that there are many fans of Canadian music here. On Amy's > website, Herizons lays out a comparison to Joni Mitchell. Nice compliment. I > think I read somewhere that Amy opened for Eric Anderson at Hugh's Room. I > wonder if it was the show where Joni showed up with Kilauren and Klein? . > > Amy's got a great sense of humour, as well as a powerhouse of a voice. A great > story teller too. Received her CDs nice gift that one. I am listening to her > live one entitled Architecture, Live at the Opera House...the Opera House in > Lunenberg, Nova Scotia. Oh Heart, Oh Highway is a wonderful CD as well. > > anyway, she's really good and I hope you enjoy one of my newest musical > discoveries au Canada. If you are so inclined, have a look/listen. > > http://www.amycampbell.ca/ > > let me know what you think... > > with tonnes of love always, > > Mags > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your > favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:14:01 +0200 From: "ron g" Subject: Re: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) was sjc but definitely jc now :-) good pick here mags. ive downloaded most of the tracks off the website & started listening. love the music. not too sure about the voice on some of the tracks, where she kind of seems to do the generic singer/songwriter type twang to her voice (if that makes any sense) and what a beautiful version of river......and not even listed in the covers project yet!! listen to her singing here. relaxed, comfortable. what a great performance. http://www.amycampbell.ca/soundboardscrapbook.html ron - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mags" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) SJC > Just saw Amy in a small venue this week, wanted to shine the light on her > because I know that there are many fans of Canadian music here. On Amy's > website, Herizons lays out a comparison to Joni Mitchell. Nice compliment. > I > think I read somewhere that Amy opened for Eric Anderson at Hugh's Room. I > wonder if it was the show where Joni showed up with Kilauren and Klein? . > > Amy's got a great sense of humour, as well as a powerhouse of a voice. A > great > story teller too. Received her CDs nice gift that one. I am listening to > her > live one entitled Architecture, Live at the Opera House...the Opera House > in > Lunenberg, Nova Scotia. Oh Heart, Oh Highway is a wonderful CD as well. > > anyway, she's really good and I hope you enjoy one of my newest musical > discoveries au Canada. If you are so inclined, have a look/listen. > > http://www.amycampbell.ca/ > > let me know what you think... > > with tonnes of love always, > > Mags > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your > favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:14:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Mags Subject: Re: Amy Campbell cover of River!! yowza just found River....thanks for the heads up Ron..nice grab. I know Jordan Kern...such a small small world, he's the guy who helped her with this song. I worked with him years ago .... two degrees of separation here we go! Mags - --- On Tue, 10/20/09, ron g wrote: From: ron g Subject: Re: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) To: "Mags" , joni@smoe.org Received: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 2:14 PM was sjc but definitely jc now :-) good pick here mags. ive downloaded most of the tracks off the website & started listening. love the music. not too sure about the voice on some of the tracks, where she kind of seems to do the generic singer/songwriter type twang to her voice (if that makes any sense) and what a beautiful version of river......and not even listed in the covers project yet!! listen to her singing here. relaxed, comfortable. what a great performance. http://www.amycampbell.ca/soundboardscrapbook.html ron - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mags" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: Amy Campbell (under the influence of joni perhaps ) SJC > Just saw Amy in a small venue this week, wanted to shine the light on her > because I know that there are many fans of Canadian music here. On Amy's > website, Herizons lays out a comparison to Joni Mitchell. Nice compliment. I > think I read somewhere that Amy opened for Eric Anderson at Hugh's Room. I > wonder if it was the show where Joni showed up with Kilauren and Klein? . > > Amy's got a great sense of humour, as well as a powerhouse of a voice. A great > story teller too. Received her CDs nice gift that one. I am listening to her > live one entitled Architecture, Live at the Opera House...the Opera House in > Lunenberg, Nova Scotia. Oh Heart, Oh Highway is a wonderful CD as well. > > anyway, she's really good and I hope you enjoy one of my newest musical > discoveries au Canada. If you are so inclined, have a look/listen. > > http://www.amycampbell.ca/ > > let me know what you think... > > with tonnes of love always, > > Mags > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your > favourite sites. Download it now > http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:20:24 -0400 From: Rose M Joy Subject: Re: Empire Hotel I concur, I think riding on the Maple leaves is key here. It has to be in Canada. I wonder if the other Joel had a lounge? Rosie Loving her iPhone Sent from my iPhone On Oct 20, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > I've always pictured it as being more like this one, Gary. Something > rundown and seedy, not very big, in a small town, probably in the > prairies or northern Ontario. There are probably hundreds of Empire > Hotels. > > It would have to be in Canada, because of the reference to the Maple > Leafs (not Leaves in this instance - it's a hockey thing and proper > English be damned.) I don't really see Westerners as being Leafs > fans, although back when the song was written, there were far fewer > teams in the NHL, so there wasn't a lot of choice. At that time > (early 70s) probably the only Canadian teams would have been the > Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal Canadiens. There would only > have been maybe 12 teams altogether. > > Although I'd have thought the west would hate Toronto and not > support them, I guess supporting Montreal would be considered worse, > so it could be western Canada as well. On the other hand, some > people would probably root for any of the American teams rather than > support either Toronto or Montreal. > > Anyone from, or who was living in western Canada in the early 70s > and who remembered such things, might want to weigh in on that. > > That "licensed beverage room" thing reminds me of how there used to > be separate entrances or maybe even separate drinking areas for > "Men" and "Ladies and escorts" in those hotels. That may be a > strictly Ontario thing that went along with there being no way to > look in the windows because you might see people (gasp!) drinking > alcohol. > > > ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Gary Z. >> To: Les Irvin >> Cc: jonipeople >> Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 12:47:46 PM >> Subject: Re: Empire Hotel >> >> Of course, there is an Empire Hotel in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, too! >> >> They have the renowned "Licensed Beverage Room!" :-) >> >> Gary Z. >> >> http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/TAW2902.php >> >> Les Irvin wrote: >>> Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel >>> (as >>> referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in >>> the Library >>> about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. >>> Anyone >>> know? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:32:20 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: Empire Hotel And in my mind, not only small, but seedy! Jerry On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Gary Z. wrote: > Hi Catherine, > > Yes, I agree that the song suggests to me that maybe it's a smaller > hotel in some Canadian town. The only thing that makes me think that > perhaps it could be the Vancouver Hotel - maybe Joni stayed there once > or twice while her home was being built up there? > > I remember when I visited New York in the 70s we stayed at the Empire > Hotel there, just thinking it *could* be the place and because we were > so enamored with Joni. I think that was just after Court and Spark was > released. We weren't thinking about the Maple Leafs connection back then. > > I haven't been to Toronto in years, but I do remember one of the first > times I visited, it was really strange to go into bars where you weren't > allowed to carry your drink around the place. You had to stay seated > until your drink was gone. Am I remembering that right? It was a long, > long, time ago! > > The Empire Hotel question is one I'd love to ask Joni if I ever had the > chance to meet her again. And you know there may be more..... > > Gary Z. > > np: Laura Nyro - Enough of You > > Catherine McKay wrote: > > I've always pictured it as being more like this one, Gary. Something > rundown and seedy, not very big, in a small town, probably in the prairies > or northern Ontario. There are probably hundreds of Empire Hotels. > > > > It would have to be in Canada, because of the reference to the Maple > Leafs (not Leaves in this instance - it's a hockey thing and proper English > be damned.) I don't really see Westerners as being Leafs fans, although > back when the song was written, there were far fewer teams in the NHL, so > there wasn't a lot of choice. At that time (early 70s) probably the only > Canadian teams would have been the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Montreal > Canadiens. There would only have been maybe 12 teams altogether. > > > > Although I'd have thought the west would hate Toronto and not support > them, I guess supporting Montreal would be considered worse, so it could be > western Canada as well. On the other hand, some people would probably root > for any of the American teams rather than support either Toronto or > Montreal. > > > > Anyone from, or who was living in western Canada in the early 70s and who > remembered such things, might want to weigh in on that. > > > > That "licensed beverage room" thing reminds me of how there used to be > separate entrances or maybe even separate drinking areas for "Men" and > "Ladies and escorts" in those hotels. That may be a strictly Ontario thing > that went along with there being no way to look in the windows because you > might see people (gasp!) drinking alcohol. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > >> From: Gary Z. > >> To: Les Irvin > >> Cc: jonipeople > >> Sent: Tue, October 20, 2009 12:47:46 PM > >> Subject: Re: Empire Hotel > >> > >> Of course, there is an Empire Hotel in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, too! > >> > >> They have the renowned "Licensed Beverage Room!" :-) > >> > >> Gary Z. > >> > >> http://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/TAW2902.php > >> > >> Les Irvin wrote: > >> > >>> Has the list ever come to a consensus as to where the Empire Hotel (as > >>> referenced in Raised on Robbery) actually is? I find nothing in the > Library > >>> about it and the list archives search is currently on the blink. > Anyone > >>> know? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Les ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #284 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe