From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #247 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, September 14 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 247 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Roses Blue mystery [Gertus@aol.com] Joni mention in comercial, err... [Ms Bene Lux ] Re: Roses Blue instrument [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Roses Blue instrument [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Roses Blue mystery instrument still a mystery? [Corey Blake Subject: Joni mention in comercial, err... Well, err, not sure if this is correct, but at the airport in Amsterdam I saw these airplanes that had advertisements for the Ing Group, which deal with banking and finances. On one of the airplanes it said, as far as I remember, "what if everything felt first class?", and I would not have suspected that they actually had a Joni song in mind, if the other one didn't say something like "what if it was never easier to go up, up and away".... Not really head-line news I know.... Hope everyone is well, Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:11:05 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Roses Blue instrument Hi Corey, In my opinion the instrument that enters on Roses Blue is a hammer dulcimer. It has that airy sound and unison strings that give it a chorusing effect. It's likely an instrument Joni encountered when she WAS a folkie. I wouldn't stake my life on it but that's what it sounds like to me. Dave On Sep 13, 2009, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Re: Clouds credits ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 08:24:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Roses Blue instrument No, it is a cowbell... - -Mon P.S. Just kidding... - --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Dave Blackburn wrote: Hi Corey, In my opinion the instrument that enters on Roses Blue is a hammer dulcimer. It has that airy sound and unison strings that give it a chorusing effect. It's likely an instrument Joni encountered when she WAS a folkie. I wouldn't stake my life on it but that's what it sounds like to me. Dave On Sep 13, 2009, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Re: Clouds credits ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:19:10 -0700 From: Corey Blake Subject: Re: Roses Blue mystery instrument still a mystery? Thanks so much T. Peckham! I keep forgetting to look at my copy of Clouds in my car but it would be strange if both Michael Vosse and Elliot Roberts' names were misspelled on the album liner notes. According to JoniMitchell.com, Michael's last name is spelled Vossi and Mr. Roberts' first name has 2 t's. Apparently neither are correct, according to your research below and what I've researched online regarding Joni's manager Elliot Roberts. Other sources worth checking: Michelle Mercer's "Will You Take Me As I Am" and Sheila Weller's "Girls Like Us". I'm (still!) reading the latter but don't recall anything about "Roses Blue" in that chapter. I checked the index but for some silly reason, albums and song titles aren't listed. Would love to hear what anyone else can come up with. Thank you! - -Corey On Sep 13, 2009, at 1:56 AM, T Peckham wrote: > I can partially answer one question. (Big whoop!) Michael Vosse-- > note spelling--can indeed be found on the JMDL, in the Chronology > (he interviewed Joni) and on those infamous older JMDL transcripts > that come up in Google searches. Here's one of them: > > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject ... - 2:44am > The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese > at ...... later "I was placed in the custody of a really nice guy > named Michael Vosse. ... > www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v04.n198 > > I didn't take the time to read thru it to find this, but I'm sure > Les can shed some light. ;-) (damned gmail---can't lost the > italics) > > Here's a bit from another source that came up, advertising the 2003 > DVD release of Woman of Heart and Mind: > > "The film required exhaustive research through decades-old archives > and personal collections, including home movies shot by Graham Nash > -- film Nash himself hadn't seen in 30 years, of Laurel Canyon in > the late 1960s, of Nash, David Crosby, Stephen Stills, Neil Young, > and Mitchell hanging out at home. Friend Michael Vosse's home movies > from the 1968 Big Sur Folk Festival show Mitchell with Judy Collins > and Mama Cass." > > From what I can glean, Vosse started out as a fan-mag reporter and > is referred to by Barney Hoskyns in his book Hotel California as a > "house hippie" who helped pitch the Gram Parsons-version of the > Burritos to A&M records, and who was hired in some capacity by (or > for) Brian Wilson during the recording of Smile. I didn't find any > reference to him as a musician. > > I listened to "Roses Blue" and agree that it sounds like a balalaika > or somesuch---it reminds me of the film Dr. Zhivago. ---Is it > possible that this might be an extremely early example of Joni > manipulating sounds in the studio? Like playing a part on guitar and > then speeding up the tape? ----If no one has an answer by tomorrow, > I'll volunteer to enter the Joel Bernstein lion's den via email. :-D > Terra, who loves research as much as sleep > > NP on the headphones: Song to a Seagull > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Corey Blake > wrote: > Thank you so much for keeping this alive David! > > I don't know if this is any help, but I notice on the credits/liner > notes for the album, it says "Special thanks to Michael Vossi and > Elliott Roberts". > > Elliot Roberts was Joni's manager at the time. But what about > Michael Vossi. Do we know who he is? Maybe he played the mystery > instrument on "Roses Blue"? > > To complicate things, both AllMusic.com and Wikipedia have the > musician credits for Clouds as the following: > > Joni Mitchell: guitar, keyboards, vocals, cover art > Stephen Stills: bass, guitar > > It seems to me, though, that this is just duplicating the musician > credits from Songs To A Seagull, since I don't hear any keyboards or > bass on the album. > > I agree it seems strange that there isn't something that talks about > the production of Clouds. I checked the Joni Mitchel Library search > engine for "Roses Blue" on JoniMitchell.com but nothing seemed to > come up. > > -Corey > > > > On Sep 12, 2009, at 8:09 PM, David Eoll wrote: > > Y'know I'm a bit disappointed in us. I don't feel like we got to > the bottom of Corey's question about Roses Blue. And now its kind > of eating at me. > > I still think we were on the right track with it being a stringed > instrument of some sort. I really don't think its a guitar. I > capoed my Martin up as high as I could and I just am not hearing the > same tone as what is on the song. I suppose it could be a mandolin > but I think the instrument in the song has a distinctly Eastern > flavor, or at the very least European. I listened to several > youtube vids of bouzouki and balalaika players, and my money would > be on balalaika if I had to place a bet right now. But, who knows > for sure? Are there other similar instruments I should check out? > > Are there any books or interviews anyone knows of where Joni talks > about the recording of Clouds? The rest of the album is so straight > up guitar and vocals (as Corey points out) that one would think that > this oddball arrangement for Roses Blue would get some mention > somewhere. > > Peace, > David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:20:50 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Roses Blue mystery instrument still a mystery? Hi Corey, call me Terra. ;-) Just a couple things---yes, I noticed the misspellings at the JMDL, which I'd love to help fix if I could take the time away from my paying freelance proofreader gig. (Barely staying afloat as it is tho . . . :-( ). ----And I can save you the time w/both books--neither one, nor the excellent and highly recommended bio *Shadows and Light* by Karen O'Brien mentions anything about the instrumentation and recording of "Roses Blue." As for the Index in *Girls Like Us*--check under each artists' name and you will find albums and songs that are mentioned in the text. Preceding the Index you'll find a complete album Discography for the three artists. ---I also checked Lloyd Whitesell's excellent *The Music of Joni Mitchell*--same story. I'm going to look up the original *Rolling Stone* review of *Clouds *to see if that yields anything. And then, if all else fails, I'll try emailing Joni's archivist and General Poobah, Joel Bernstein. I *know* he will know. :-D Terra On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Corey Blake wrote: > Thanks so much T. Peckham! > > I keep forgetting to look at my copy of Clouds in my car but it would be > strange if both Michael Vosse and Elliot Roberts' names were misspelled on > the album liner notes. According to JoniMitchell.com, Michael's last name is > spelled Vossi and Mr. Roberts' first name has 2 t's. Apparently neither are > correct, according to your research below and what I've researched online > regarding Joni's manager Elliot Roberts. > > Other sources worth checking: Michelle Mercer's "Will You Take Me As I Am" > and Sheila Weller's "Girls Like Us". I'm (still!) reading the latter but > don't recall anything about "Roses Blue" in that chapter. I checked the > index but for some silly reason, albums and song titles aren't listed. > > Would love to hear what anyone else can come up with. Thank you! > > -Corey > > > On Sep 13, 2009, at 1:56 AM, T Peckham wrote: > > I can partially answer one question. (Big whoop!) Michael Vosse--note > spelling--can indeed be found on the JMDL, in the Chronology (he interviewed > Joni) and on those infamous older JMDL transcripts that come up in Google > searches. Here's one of them: > > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: *joni*-digest@smoe.org Subject *...* > - 2:44am The Official *Joni Mitchell* Homepage is maintained by Wally > Breese at *......* later "I was placed in the custody of a really nice guy > named *Michael Vosse*. *...* > www.smoe.org/lists/*joni*/v04.n198 > > I didn't take the time to read thru it to find this, but I'm sure Les can > shed some light. ;-) (damned gmail---can't lost the italics) > > Here's a bit from another source that came up, advertising the 2003 DVD > release of *Woman of Heart and Mind*: > > "The film required exhaustive research through decades-old archives and > personal collections, including home movies shot by Graham Nash -- film Nash > himself hadn't seen in 30 years, of Laurel Canyon in the late 1960s, of > Nash, David Crosby, Stephen Stills, > Neil Young, and Mitchell hanging out at home. *Friend Michael Vosse's home > movies from the 1968 Big Sur Folk Festival show Mitchell with Judy Collins > and Mama Cass."* > > From what I can glean, Vosse started out as a fan-mag reporter and is > referred to by Barney Hoskyns in his book *Hotel California* as a "house > hippie" who helped pitch the Gram Parsons-version of the Burritos to A&M > records, and who was hired in some capacity by (or for) Brian Wilson during > the recording of *Smile*. I didn't find any reference to him as a > musician. > > I listened to "Roses Blue" and agree that it sounds like a balalaika or > somesuch---it reminds me of the film *Dr. Zhivago.* ---Is it possible that > this might be an extremely early example of Joni manipulating sounds in the > studio? Like playing a part on guitar and then speeding up the tape? ----If > no one has an answer by tomorrow, I'll volunteer to enter the Joel Bernstein > lion's den via email. :-D > Terra, who loves research as much as sleep > > NP on the headphones: *Song to a Seagull* > > > On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Corey Blake wrote: > >> Thank you so much for keeping this alive David! >> >> I don't know if this is any help, but I notice on the credits/liner notes >> for the album, it says "Special thanks to Michael Vossi and Elliott >> Roberts". >> >> Elliot Roberts was Joni's manager at the time. But what about Michael >> Vossi. Do we know who he is? Maybe he played the mystery instrument on >> "Roses Blue"? >> >> To complicate things, both AllMusic.com and Wikipedia have the musician >> credits for Clouds as the following: >> >> Joni Mitchell: guitar, keyboards, vocals, cover art >> Stephen Stills: bass, guitar >> >> It seems to me, though, that this is just duplicating the musician credits >> from Songs To A Seagull, since I don't hear any keyboards or bass on the >> album. >> >> I agree it seems strange that there isn't something that talks about the >> production of Clouds. I checked the Joni Mitchel Library search engine for >> "Roses Blue" on JoniMitchell.com but nothing seemed to come up. >> >> -Corey >> >> >> >> On Sep 12, 2009, at 8:09 PM, David Eoll wrote: >> >> Y'know I'm a bit disappointed in us. I don't feel like we got to the >>> bottom of Corey's question about Roses Blue. And now its kind of eating at >>> me. >>> >>> I still think we were on the right track with it being a stringed >>> instrument of some sort. I really don't think its a guitar. I capoed my >>> Martin up as high as I could and I just am not hearing the same tone as what >>> is on the song. I suppose it could be a mandolin but I think the instrument >>> in the song has a distinctly Eastern flavor, or at the very least European. >>> I listened to several youtube vids of bouzouki and balalaika players, and >>> my money would be on balalaika if I had to place a bet right now. But, who >>> knows for sure? Are there other similar instruments I should check out? >>> >>> Are there any books or interviews anyone knows of where Joni talks about >>> the recording of Clouds? The rest of the album is so straight up guitar and >>> vocals (as Corey points out) that one would think that this oddball >>> arrangement for Roses Blue would get some mention somewhere. >>> >>> Peace, >>> David >>> >> > > > > > - -- Some things in life it just gets too late to learn . . . --Bob Dylan ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #247 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe