From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #222 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 19 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 222 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Joni Album for when you're feeling naughty... [Mark-Leon Thorne <] Re: Woodstock ["Mark Scott" ] You and Mingus, Mingus and You [Rian Afriadi ] Re: Woodstock [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Woodstock article, The Globe and Mail, Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 - has Joni content [Catherine McKay ] Re: Woodstock and Early Joni [PassScribe@aol.com] For the Roses - Limited?? ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: For the Roses - Limited?? [Gerald Notaro ] Translation - Joni and Norway - again ["Rob Argento" ] Re: Translation - Joni and Norway - again [T Peckham ] Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Woodstock and Early Joni [Dan Olson ] Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You [Dan Olson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:46:29 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: The Joni Album for when you're feeling naughty... Could the connection be that Tommy Chong is Canadian? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 05:40:29 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Woodstock - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Zubairi Home" > Now I can't comment on the popularity of other people's versions of > Woodstock but in the early 1990's I was in a bar band that did rock > & blues > covers (The Eagles, America, Jimi Hendrix and such the like) and I > loaned > the guitarist LOTC. A coupla days later at a rehearsal he said 'What > has she > done to Woodstock? It's freaky.' to which I replied,' You can do > what you > like to a song when you write it, I guess.''She didn't write it - it > was > Matthews Southern Comfort!' > > Yeah, Joni didn't get very far in rural East Anglia/East Midlands. > > I did correct him but he was still incredulous... My older brother once told me Joni did the worst version of 'Woodstock' he'd ever heard. I told him she wrote it. He still said she did the worst version he'd ever heard. Shall we have the huy-dah discussion again? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 05:55:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: You and Mingus, Mingus and You It's 2009. Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her weirdest") album, called "Mingus". It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all know those album have become soundtracks of our lives. But how about Mingus? What did you think about this album when it was released? Did you think Joni has gone too far? Thirty years later, what do you think about it? Rian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:58:20 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Woodstock Tell him I can send him the 194 other versions out there - I'm sure he'll find one he hates worse than Joni's (although most of them ARE pretty good). Bob NP: Beck, "Novacane" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:27:27 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You I think you had to be a jazz fan to like Mingus, and most of Joni's fans probably weren't. I was indifferent to jazz and although I appreciate some of it now, I still don't know enough to be able to appreciate Mingus. I bought the album when it came out, of course but I never listened to it very much. I found it too demanding. Haven't heard it in ages since I don't own it on cd. But maybe I will buy the cd, and then, who knows? Times change, we change. I did not get Hejira when it came out, today it is one of my favourites. Marion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rian Afriadi" To: "jonipeople" Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 2:55 PM Subject: You and Mingus, Mingus and You > It's 2009. > > Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her weirdest") > album, called "Mingus". > > It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. > > We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all know > those album have become soundtracks of our lives. > > But how about Mingus? > What did you think about this album when it was released? > Did you think Joni has gone too far? > > Thirty years later, what do you think about it? > > > Rian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 09:35:48 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You Never, ever liked it, then or now. Mostly because I want to hear Mingus do Mingus, not someone else. Which is also true of Joni's music for me. I love her doing her work more than other doing it. Not that I don't enjoy a cover here and there, Mr. Muller. But rarely do they exceed her versions. Jerry On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Rian Afriadi wrote: > It's 2009. > > Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her weirdest") > album, called "Mingus". > > It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. > > We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all know > those album have become soundtracks of our lives. > > But how about Mingus? > What did you think about this album when it was released? > Did you think Joni has gone too far? > > Thirty years later, what do you think about it? > > > Rian > - -- Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 10:02:58 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You I didn't get Mingus when it came out - and I mean that in both ways. I didn't purchase it, nor did I understand it or would have understood it in 1979. I was knee-deep in the British punk and American Indie scenes and definitely not into jazz. Had never heard of Mingus. I had enjoyed most of DJRD immensely but thought that some of it was too 'out there' at the time. When I read the thumbs-down reviews of Mingus I steered clear of it. I did snag S&L when it came out and felt like she had taken the highlights of Mingus and included them in the live set - I enjoyed them but remained unmoved to get the original Mingus album. Finally, a friend gave me a cassette of Mingus when she heard I was a Joni fan; she had bought it and wasn't able to get into it (this would have been the late 80's). I loved the airiness and free-ness of it and was amazed at Joni's phrasing on the songs I hadn't heard before. In particular I really liked "Wolf" because it was so mysterious-sounding. Thirty years later, it's definitely not my favorite Joni but I like it a lot. I think it contains Joni's finest singing, particularly on "Sweet Sucker Dance". Her ability to add a brilliant lyric to a tricky non-conventional melody is sheer genius. Happy Birthday Mingus! (play that weird minor chord...) Bob NP: Wilco, "Bull Black Nova" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 06:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Woodstock article, The Globe and Mail, Saturday, Aug 15, 2009 - has Joni content Woodstock: even the memories are muddy What went down at that festival forty years ago? It depends on who you ask From Saturday's Globe and Mail Last updated on Tuesday, Aug. 18, 2009 02:40AM EDT If they could put two men on the moon, how hard could it be to hold a three-day Aquarian Exposition? The summer of 1969 is iconic for a number of reasons, but the two events often viewed as the era's most momentous involve rock and a rocket ship. Forty years later, both episodes seem improbable, perhaps for good reason. Conspiracy theorists will tell you the moon landing was all staging, hoax and propaganda. As for Woodstock - the subject of radically opposite reports even at the time, and of contradictory interpretations ever since - well, nobody's really sure how it all went down. On July 20, an Eagle landed at Tranquility Base, where astronauts Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin planted a U.S. flag and generally behaved like dazed tourists. "The surface is fine and powdery," Armstrong said. "It adheres in fine layers, like powdered charcoal, to the soles and sides of my foot." Sounds like a real trip. Less than a month later, David Crosby landed by whirlybird at Yasgur's Farm in bucolic Bethel, N.Y., where he was overwhelmed. "You couldn't really wrap your mind around how many people were there," the ever-inhaling musician later recalled. "It had never happened before, and it was sort of like having aliens land." In effect, Crosby and Armstrong (whose fellow spaceman was nicknamed Buzz) said the same thing: "Far out." Crosby judged his performance with Graham Nash, Stephen Stills and Neil Young as "stoned and funny and fine." Yet the recollections of one of his bandmates differ wildly from Crosby's cozy account. "Woodstock was a bullshit gig, a piece of shit," Young told biographer Jimmy McDonough. "We played [expletive] awful. No one was into the music." What they were into was having a high old time: When the bohemians and flower children were given mud, they made a mudslide. As a communal event, it was a success - hippies thriving in an area officially declared a disaster - but the harsh conditions weren't for everyone. "A bunch of dopes in the mud not even paying attention," said rock critic Richard Meltzer, who split on the first day. One scene, lotsa reads. Many remember Abbie Hoffman being whacked in the head by the guitar-wielding Pete Townshend. Hoffman had hopped onstage during the Who's set to commandeer a microphone to say something about John Sinclair, the radical manager of Detroit rockers MC5, in jail for a dubious drug charge. In the just-released book The Road to Woodstock , by festival organizer Michael Lang, Townshend said his reaction to Hoffman was reflexive, and that what Hoffman was saying was legitimate. "The people at Woodstock really were a bunch of hypocrites claiming a cosmic revolution simply because they took over a field, broke down some fences, imbibed bad acid, and then tried to run out without paying the bands. All while John Sinclair rotted in jail after a trumped-up drug bust." Townshend's bandmate Roger Daltrey, who wore curly hair and a tasselled white vest for the performance, looked at the events at Yasgur's more practically: "We did a two-and-a-half-hour set... It made our career. We were a huge cult band, but Woodstock cemented us to the historical map of rock and roll." The historical map of the festival itself was locked in place by the utopian ode Woodstock , written by Joni Mitchell, the Canadian songstress who wasn't there, having chosen to appear on Dick Cavett's talk show instead. How could the event's theme song be written by someone who wasn't there? How can an American flag ripple in the wind of a windless moon? Did the star-spangled anthem-writer Francis Scott Key make up the bits about bombs bursting in air? So it's hard to say whether the people of Woodstock Nation were stardust and golden, or just muddy, hungry and stoned. An editorial in The New York Times described "maddened youths" in a "nightmare of mud and stagnation," and asked, "What kind of culture is it that can produce so colossal a mess?" In the same article, however, the "freakish-looking" festivalgoers were moderately praised for how they handled themselves. "[They] behaved astonishingly well, considering the disappointments and discomforts they encountered. They showed that there is real good under their fantastic exteriors, if it can just be aroused to some better purpose than the pursuit of LSD." It's hard to gauge how pleasurable the festival was for those who attended. It's probably enough to say that some took the brown acid, and some didn't. For those who capitalize, the mythology of Woodstock is certainly real enough. Whatever happened in Bethel did not stay in Bethel, that much is for sure. Commemorative CD products this summer come in the form of Rhino's expanded anthology of music recorded at the festival, the six-disc "Woodstock 40 Years On: Back to Yasgur'sFarm", which competes with Sony Legacy's series of Woodstock performances by Sly and the Family Stone, Santana, Janis Joplin and others. Books include "The Road to Woodstock," a detailed account from ringleader Lang, who discloses behind-the-scene knowledge on how much the bands were paid and how much vendors were charged for booths ($300). The 1970 documentary "Woodstock" has been rereleased in a director's cut DVD, and, on Aug. 28, Ang Lee's comedy "Taking Woodstock" hits screens. As for the event's ultimate legacy, the three days of peace and music in 1969 became the model for how not to run a large-scale rock festival. If the organizers wanted to build an Aquarian Exposition to end all Aquarian Expositions, they succeeded. There's a theory that the moon landings did take place, but that the astronauts involved in space missions have been less than forthcoming about what they actually saw out there. With Woodstock, fact and fiction is as muddy as the site itself, with differing accounts adding to the whole hazy recollection, as if those present had decided they'd abide by Dylan's lyrics: "I'll let you be in my dreams, if I can be in yours." http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts/woodstock-even-the-memories-are-muddy/article1252052/ __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:42:43 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Home Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You When Mingus was released, I was 7 so I really have no opinion on its release at the time. I will be 37 tomorrow and I think after 21 years of loving Joni's music, it is one of the best jazz albums I know of. I would have loved to have heard her sing 'Sweet Sucker Dance' or 'A Chair In The Sky' live in an underground club. Can you imagine if she sang ACITS instead of Sex Kills at the AIDS benefit that she would have got a much better reception.... Basically, that album got me into Mingus' music which I am eternally grateful for. I went to see the Mingus Big Band when they played Ronnie Scott's in London a few years ago and I was blown away by the whole experience. Reasons I love it: The cover painting is gorgeous. The paintings on the gatefold with inserts album are great too. The back cover painting is an exercise in holding back while the others are full of expression. Her singing is at its most expressive She handles some really difficult subjects really sensitively and with a lightness that doesn't bring it down (though I have no idea what The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey is about, I have my take on it) It's another brave album, possibly her bravest. For that alone I will always love this album. Her next hard left was DED which she was fighting with the producer a lot of the time and for that reason failed to remain Joni's vision, while this, despite having 4 songs out of 6 not written by Joni, remains a Joni album because she was there, swimming in the sea of another country, waving and not drowning. The reason I don't like it: There are no hits on it. (hah. Like that ever mattered) 2009/8/18 Rian Afriadi > It's 2009. > > Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her weirdest") > album, called "Mingus". > > It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. > > We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all know > those album have become soundtracks of our lives. > > But how about Mingus? > What did you think about this album when it was released? > Did you think Joni has gone too far? > > Thirty years later, what do you think about it? > > > Rian > - -- Jamie Zubairi Actor, Painter, Photographer. Feel like supporting a World Record Attempt while giving to charity? go to: http://www.justgiving.com/zooby Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.spotlight.com/interactive/cv/965489410181 agent: http://www.pelhamassociates.co.uk 01273 323 010 Website: http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Randomly Related Blog: http://jamiezubairi.blogspot.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:09:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You >>But how about Mingus? What did you think about this album when it was released? Did you think Joni has gone too far? Thirty years later, what do you think about it? I think Mingus is among Joni's best albums (it says something about an artist when "in my top 5" is a compliment). Having grown up in a household where jazz was played regularly, and having discovered Joni (I mean in depth--beyond BSN + BYT, etc.), during this era, it was never a "shock" to me. Joni was playing with musicians who were to their instruments what she is to songwriting, and that allowed her to go wherever she wanted musically--which I think is a very good thing. While it may not be my VERY favorite album of hers, I certainly like it more than any studio album (thereby excepting S+L) she has recorded since--and I like many of those a great deal indeed. Michael F. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:40:46 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock and Early Joni Back around the time of Woodstock, I was heavily into FM radio and had even installed an aftermarket FM tuner under my dash (in addition to the regular AM radio) in my car; of course we had FM on the stereo in the house and I had a sizeable vinyl collection (still do!) For those reasons, I was very into the music of the 1960s/1970s and especially CS&N. So the first version of Woodstock I ever heard was theirs and I loved it. Shortly afterward, I heard Matthew Southern Confort's version and I thought that was pretty good as well. It wasn't until long after that I heard Joni's (original) version since my first Joni album was Court & Spank (Ooops! I mean...) Anyway, I worked my way backwards into the rest of Joni's music after that and eventually heard her live version from the Monterrey Pop festival. It took some getting used to Joni's version because it was so different from the others I had previously heard and the long, yodeling ending has always been hard for me to accept. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:58:45 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: For the Roses - Limited?? Cassie asked, >Does anyone know why some of the FTR CDs are advertised on eBay as limited??> I think it's a typo/error. As far as I know, there's never been a limited edition CD of FTR. (Unlike Blue.) I'd put it down to the way Ebay allows a seller to build auction details from other auctions, even if the first auction has typos. The title of this auction http://tinyurl.com/r79z8usays [LIMITED]. If you want to build an auction from it, you can click a button labeled "Sell one like this". It builds for you a new auction with the same title and details. That listing also falsely claims the recording type is "Live". Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:22:51 -0400 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: For the Roses - Limited?? For whatever reason, other sites have also listed it as Limited, which it is not. But there is good news for audiophile Joni fans. CD Japan has already issued Blue in SHM-CD format Blue [SHM-CD] [Limited Release] Joni Mitchell Reissue features the high-fidelity SHM-CD format (compatible with standard CD players). CD | Released 2008/12/17 | 2300Yen(24.02 USD) and will soon release Clouds [SHM-CD] [Limited Release] Joni Mitchell Reissue featuring the high-fidelity SHM-CD format (compatible with standard CD players). CD | Released 2009/08/26 | 2300Yen(24.02 USD) I have the Blue and many other SHM-CD's and they nothing short of magnificent, far surpassing, in my opinion, even the Gold DCC versions. They play on all cd players. So let us hope that we can look forward to all of Joni's catalog this way, especially FTR and CAS. Jerry On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > Cassie asked, > >Does anyone know why some of the FTR CDs are advertised on eBay as limited??> > > I think it's a typo/error. As far as I know, there's never been a limited edition CD of FTR. (Unlike Blue.) I'd put it down to the way Ebay allows a seller to build auction details from other auctions, even if the first auction has typos. > > The title of this auction > > http://tinyurl.com/r79z8usays [LIMITED]. If you want to build an auction from it, you can click a button labeled "Sell one like this". It builds for you a new auction with the same title and details. That listing also falsely claims the recording type is "Live". > > Jim L'Hommedieu - -- Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:19:07 -0400 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: Translation - Joni and Norway - again While we are all thankful for the first translations of this article, I had the opportunity to look at it this afternoon and am sending yet another. I have tried to keep the tone of the original piece while making it flow better in English - not a totally easy task even after my over 40 years in Scandinavia. Besides, I had promised Les! I just hope I have removed any typos. The piece does have some newer information and, as the last lines state, perhaps even give Joni and her daughter something new. /Robban http://www.bt.no/kultur/Ut-fra-Moelvi-munner-Mitchells-musikk--893641.html FROM MOELVI COMES MITCHELL'S MUSIC Deep in Modalen, between the tall mountains, there is an old farm. It is known as Farestvelt Farm number one and has been the home of the family Farestvelt where they have lived and worked for centuries. The maternal grandmother of Joni Mitchell, or rather Roberta Joan Anderson which was her name at birth, emigrated, with her parents, from here to the USA, when she was only a few weeks old. The family of the jazz singer and teacher Linda Farestvelt also originates from here. Linda and Joni have more than music in common. They are distant cousins. MADE MY DAY! Linda has not been here since she, as a young girl, visited the place with her father. We have driven close to two hours on the narrow roads which wind further and further into the valley. Linda talks a lot about Joni, who she has admired since she was 16. She speaks of the album "Blue" which she sets so high that she, as a singer, has never dared to approach it. Then she tells about when the genealogist Arnfrid Maeland called her at work one day and told about his discovery. "I had a hard day and wasn't in the best of moods when Arnfrid called to tell me of his discovery. But at that very moment nothing else mattered any more", says the jazz vocalist glowingly. Linda then called another distant cousin who today lives on the farm which Joni's Great grandmother, Brita Olsdatter Farestvelt, with her family left in 1882. Linda told Arthur Farestvelt, their common relative, the story of the connection of the world renowned singer and his farm. THE FARM BETWEEN THE MOUNTAINS Arthur Farestvelt meets us at the farm. He comes out from the newest of the yellow buildings with red trim which stand on either side of the road. He doesn't know who Joni Mitchell is, but tells us that the house on the opposite side of the road was the childhood home of Joni's Great grandmother. It was also Arthur's own childhood home and it is to here he and his wife will move when their daughter, Ann Jorunn (23) take over the new house, farm and barn. Ann Jorunn, herself a singer in a rock band, smiles when we tell her of her relationship to Joni Mitchell's daughter. Arthur has lived on the farm his entire life. He tells about the name Farestvelt, which comes from the words "fare" - to travel over the "tveiten", the plain or meadow. He points to the mountains around us. Kalsesen (Kals ridge), Kvitfjellet (White Mountain), Daurmelsbotn - "dinnertime - in that when the sun is exactly over that spot, it is time for the midday meal. He shows us the plum and apple trees. He says that the three largest have always been there. WHEN THE SISTERS LEFT It was here that Joni's Great grandmother lived and ate her apples, milked her cows and had the midday meal ready when the sun stood over Daursmelsbotn. Then, one day, she suddenly left the farm with her husband and two small children. Joni's maternal grandmother was only an infant then. Just before they left she was christened in Mo church with the name of Ingeborg. In the United States her name would be changed to Emma, and the family took the name Anderson after Emmas father. And so in 1882 the family rowed their way to Bergen and from there took a ship to America. In the local records of Mo Valley we can read of the family's emigration, but nothing more. Arthur remarks that he never heard any other stories about Britta nor of her sister, Inga, who left later on that same year. "My Great grandfather never mentioned anything else about these two women, which seems quite strange in that he spoke very much about other emigrants from the area. said Arthur MUSIC FROM MOELVI At the age of 14, Emma longed for a piano, which she never got. But her granddaughter, Joni Mitchell did - Joni who in several interviews is proud of her grandmother with the unknown origins. In "Woman of mind and Heart" from 2000 she says that she has no doubts as to her musical roots. And perhaps now she will soon know that those roots lay in Faresveit Farm, where the waters of the Moelvi run, as they always have, down into The Mo valley. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 16:55:21 -0500 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: Translation - Joni and Norway - again Thanks so much! This is much easier for me to fully understand, not having any Norwegian. ;-) Best, Terra On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Rob Argento wrote: > While we are all thankful for the first translations of this article, I had > the opportunity to look at it this afternoon and am sending yet another. I > have tried to keep the tone of the original piece while making it flow > better in English - not a totally easy task even after my over 40 years in > Scandinavia. Besides, I had promised Les! I just hope I have removed any > typos. > > The piece does have some newer information and, as the last lines state, > perhaps even give Joni and her daughter something new. > > /Robban > > http://www.bt.no/kultur/Ut-fra-Moelvi-munner-Mitchells-musikk--893641.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:31:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Translation - Joni and Norway - again - --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Rob Argento wrote: > While we are all thankful for the > first translations of this article, I had > the opportunity to look at it this afternoon and am sending > yet another. I > have tried to keep the tone of the original piece while > making it flow > better in English - not a totally easy task even after my > over 40 years in > Scandinavia. Besides, I had promised Les! I just hope I > have removed any > typos. > Nicely done! __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:03:52 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You At 07:02 AM 8/18/2009, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >I think it contains Joni's finest singing Agreed. She was at the top of her vocal powers and when combined with jazz phrasings the combination is spellbinding. I loved it when it came out and still find it timeless, more so than any of her other works, but I came to the party as a jazzer first and a folk-rocker second. She was crucified by the pop press (and praised by many jazz critics) and I believe released the project knowing that it would alienate a good portion of her audience. While her disdain of "the biz" had begun years before, it was post-Mingus when her scorn came to the fore. Her collaboration with Charlie the legend cost her commercial success in both the short and long terms, but you know we admire her vision as much as her craft. The album was a turning point in many ways...marked her as an uncompromising pioneer, cemented her status as a critic of the industry, and opened doors to other musicians (Wayne Shorter, for one) who would influence all future recordings. To this day I still play my old vinyl copies of this album. Can't say that about many other recordings, from any artist, since the advent of CDs. But there's just something about those weird minor chords coming from the record player. Transcendent, I'd say. And, not without nostalgia. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:52:10 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You Hi Rian, Great questions! I remember reading about 'Mingus' in the interview Cameron Crowe did with Joni in Rolling Stone just before it was released. I didn't know a thing about Charles Mingus and next to nothing about jazz (still don't, really) but just reading what Joni had to say about it really sparked my interest. She had been dabbling in jazz for some time. So it didn't seem like it was completely out of left field to do this project and it was obvious that it meant a lot to her. At the same time I did have a sense that this was a very brave step for her to take. I think the liner notes make some reference to her 'dog-paddling around', implying a bit of a panicky feeling at completely immersing herself in the jazz idiom. When I first heard 'Mingus', it was odd to hear songs that Joni had written the lyrics for but not the music. The words were definitely Joni's for the 4 songs that had Mingus's melodies. The melodies were distinctly different from any that Joni had composed. But right from the start I was struck by the sense of beautiful, haunting melancholy in 'A Chair in the Sky'. The rain, the man contemplating his approaching death, the boats going by - all of it could be seen in my mind's eye. An evocative melding of words and music painted a misty, muted, but vivid picture for me. Then there was the rollicking playfulness of 'The Drycleaner from Des Moines' and the steady, graceful, sensual movement of 'Sweet Sucker Dance'. Finally the tribute to Lester Young at the end, 'Goodbye Porkpie Hat', with its underlying theme of the racism he and so many others had to deal with. About three quarters of the way through this song she brings us to a (then) present-day moment on a New York street containing the following which are some of my favorite Joni Mitchell lyrics: For you and me the sidewalk is a history book And a circus Dangerous clowns Balancing dreadful and wonderful Perceptions that have been handed day by day Generations on down What a wonderful, beautifully expressed metaphor snugly fit to that complex, twisting, swooping melody. One of the songs that Joni wrote both words and music for completely blew me away. I think 'The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey' is a piece of genius. The way the guitar rumbles and pings at the end, re-stating the dark, cold and threatening mood created by the lyrics gave me chills from the start. You can hear 'the stab and glare and buckshot of the heavy, heavy snow' with the wolf prowling in the dark, hunting for his prey. And I love the wolves howling at the end as well. They carry the song away into the dark, cold, treacherous night. And I've always gotten a kick out of 'God Must Be a Boogie Man'. So, Rian, I guess you can say that I was fascinated by 'Mingus' from the start and gradually came to really love it. No, I did not think Joni had gone too far. My respect for her for taking this risk grew by a couple of leaps and bounds. And I had a *lot* of respect for her before she made 'Mingus'. 30 years later I still think 'Mingus' is a wonderful record. When it was released, I didn't know much about vocalese. It would be a few more years before I would start to get into 'Lambert, Hendricks and Ross' who started recording as a trio by setting lyrics to the music of Count Basie. I also had yet to discover my passion for Billie Holiday and learn about the magical musical relationship between Billie's voice and Lester Young's saxophone. At the time 'Mingus' came out, I had no idea that Joni used alternate guitar tunings. Now I understand a bit better what grabbed me about 'The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey'. That bit of knowledge really enhances my enjoyment of the song. 'Mingus' pointed me in directions I may not have ventured into had I not been a Joni Mitchell fan and bought that particular album. In retrospect, it was a bit of a musical watershed for me. It's not my absolute favorite Joni Mitchell album, but I still love it. Mark in Seattle - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rian Afriadi" To: "jonipeople" Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 5:55 AM Subject: You and Mingus, Mingus and You > It's 2009. > > Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her > weirdest") album, called "Mingus". > > It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. > > We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all > know those album have become soundtracks of our lives. > > But how about Mingus? > What did you think about this album when it was released? > Did you think Joni has gone too far? > > Thirty years later, what do you think about it? > > > Rian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:23:22 -0500 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Woodstock and Early Joni My recollection (somewhat foggy now) was that I (in 7th grade at the time) was exposed to CSN (AND YOUNG)'s version and Joni's version THE SAME DAY. Just wanted to remind some here that Woodstock was on Deja Vu (CSN AND Young)'s album. ~Dan On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:40 AM, wrote: > Back around the time of Woodstock, I was heavily into FM radio and had > even installed an aftermarket FM tuner under my dash (in addition to the > regular AM radio) in my car; of course we had FM on the stereo in the house > and I had a sizeable vinyl collection (still do!) > For those reasons, I was very into the music of the 1960s/1970s and > especially CS&N. So the first version of Woodstock I ever heard was theirs > and > I loved it. Shortly afterward, I heard Matthew Southern Confort's version > and I thought that was pretty good as well. > It wasn't until long after that I heard Joni's (original) version > since my first Joni album was Court & Spank (Ooops! I mean...) Anyway, > I > worked my way backwards into the rest of Joni's music after that and > eventually > heard her live version from the Monterrey Pop festival. It took some > getting used to Joni's version because it was so different from the others > I had > previously heard and the long, yodeling ending has always been hard for me > to > accept. > > Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:40:51 -0500 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: You and Mingus, Mingus and You In the summer of 1979, I was already a huge fan of Joni. I was also a huge Weather Report (and Jaco) fan, so it was incredible that Joni would put together a band that was essentially Weather Report (literally, except Herbie Hancock instead of Josef Zawinul). Oh, and I had tickets to her Mpls concert (the only time I have seen her to date). I didn't own a turntable at the time, but I could borrow one occasionally to make cassette recordings. So I bought the record, recorded it, and gave the record to a friend. I've always found the "raps" in between the songs annoying, so I edited them out. I loved the music, but everyone I knew hated it. Somehow, I was able to obtain a promotional poster for the album (the cover painting of Mingus). I framed it myself, hung it on the wall, and failed to secure the string behind the frame. It came crashing down, and the glass destroyed the poster. I have never recovered from the loss of that, but I've never again allowed it to happen to any other framed artwork (so far). ~Dan On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Mark Scott wrote: > Hi Rian, > > Great questions! > > I remember reading about 'Mingus' in the interview Cameron Crowe did with > Joni in Rolling Stone just before it was released. I didn't know a thing > about Charles Mingus and next to nothing about jazz (still don't, really) > but just reading what Joni had to say about it really sparked my interest. > She had been dabbling in jazz for some time. So it didn't seem like it was > completely out of left field to do this project and it was obvious that it > meant a lot to her. At the same time I did have a sense that this was a > very brave step for her to take. I think the liner notes make some > reference to her 'dog-paddling around', implying a bit of a panicky feeling > at completely immersing herself in the jazz idiom. > > When I first heard 'Mingus', it was odd to hear songs that Joni had written > the lyrics for but not the music. The words were definitely Joni's for the > 4 songs that had Mingus's melodies. The melodies were distinctly different > from any that Joni had composed. > > But right from the start I was struck by the sense of beautiful, haunting > melancholy in 'A Chair in the Sky'. The rain, the man contemplating his > approaching death, the boats going by - all of it could be seen in my mind's > eye. An evocative melding of words and music painted a misty, muted, but > vivid picture for me. > > Then there was the rollicking playfulness of 'The Drycleaner from Des > Moines' and the steady, graceful, sensual movement of 'Sweet Sucker Dance'. > Finally the tribute to Lester Young at the end, 'Goodbye Porkpie Hat', with > its underlying theme of the racism he and so many others had to deal with. > About three quarters of the way through this song she brings us to a (then) > present-day moment on a New York street containing the following which are > some of my favorite Joni Mitchell lyrics: > > For you and me the sidewalk is a history book > And a circus > Dangerous clowns > Balancing dreadful and wonderful > Perceptions that have been handed day by day > Generations on down > > What a wonderful, beautifully expressed metaphor snugly fit to that > complex, twisting, swooping melody. > > One of the songs that Joni wrote both words and music for completely blew > me away. I think 'The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey' is a piece of genius. > The way the guitar rumbles and pings at the end, re-stating the dark, cold > and threatening mood created by the lyrics gave me chills from the start. > You can hear 'the stab and glare and buckshot of the heavy, heavy snow' > with the wolf prowling in the dark, hunting for his prey. And I love the > wolves howling at the end as well. They carry the song away into the dark, > cold, treacherous night. > > And I've always gotten a kick out of 'God Must Be a Boogie Man'. > > So, Rian, I guess you can say that I was fascinated by 'Mingus' from the > start and gradually came to really love it. > > No, I did not think Joni had gone too far. My respect for her for taking > this risk grew by a couple of leaps and bounds. And I had a *lot* of > respect for her before she made 'Mingus'. > > 30 years later I still think 'Mingus' is a wonderful record. When it was > released, I didn't know much about vocalese. It would be a few more years > before I would start to get into 'Lambert, Hendricks and Ross' who started > recording as a trio by setting lyrics to the music of Count Basie. I also > had yet to discover my passion for Billie Holiday and learn about the > magical musical relationship between Billie's voice and Lester Young's > saxophone. At the time 'Mingus' came out, I had no idea that Joni used > alternate guitar tunings. Now I understand a bit better what grabbed me > about 'The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey'. That bit of knowledge really > enhances my enjoyment of the song. 'Mingus' pointed me in directions I may > not have ventured into had I not been a Joni Mitchell fan and bought that > particular album. In retrospect, it was a bit of a musical watershed for > me. It's not my absolute favorite Joni Mitchell album, but I still love it. > > Mark in Seattle > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rian Afriadi" > To: "jonipeople" > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 5:55 AM > Subject: You and Mingus, Mingus and You > > > It's 2009. >> >> Thirty years ago Joni released her most unusual (probably "her weirdest") >> album, called "Mingus". >> >> It's been thirty years and people still don't get this album. >> >> We all know how Blue and FTR and Hejira touch most of us. And we all know >> those album have become soundtracks of our lives. >> >> But how about Mingus? >> What did you think about this album when it was released? >> Did you think Joni has gone too far? >> >> Thirty years later, what do you think about it? >> >> >> Rian ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #222 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe