From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #58 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, February 28 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 058 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: SJC: History & Herstory [T Peckham ] Re: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings [Mike Pritchard ] Re: Jungle Line now Hissing through hissy fits [Catherine McKay ] Stevie Loves Joni erratta ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Stevie Loves Joni erratta [Michael Paz ] Re: Stevie Loves Joni erratta [Michael Paz ] Re: Jungle Line [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:21:49 -0600 From: T Peckham Subject: Re: SJC: History & Herstory Very interesting conversation . . . Catherine said: "Joni may have been seeing her own life as a reflection of her mother's or grandmother's - the one that gave up her own artistic goals to be a wife and mother. And let's face it, that was certainly the accepted thing back then. For some it's still the accepted thing that the woman has to give up a piece of her soul once she gets bound and tied up to someone. Her skittishness is perfectly understandable to me." Amen to that. No matter how far we think we've come (*baby*), the age-old male/female roles remain firmly entrenched for most, artist or not. A lot of it still comes down to biology, I think. Even tho not all women are hard-wired to produce and nurture the next generation and keep the cave warm and clean, quite a few, evidently, are. And there seem to be a preponderance of men who are hard-wired to be threatened/angered/baffled/fearful/resentful/jealous (pick any) by and of strong, independent, accomplished women, even those who are *still* likely to be supportive of them. Coming of age in the 70s, I never used to buy this, even tho I got sucked into it a bit thru high school and my first year of college. Still, I was kinda like Joni in that I always had guy *friends*---that I wasn't also sleeping with, that is. :-P (Hey, it WAS the 70s!) I was lucky that I always seemed to find really cool, enlightened men for friends AND boyfriends. While it was great while it lasted (which wasn't all that long, really), I think it instilled false expectations that ultimately came smack upside reality. Which is perhaps why I've never been married, despite several close calls. (Or maybe it's just because I'm "difficult.") :-D > > > Laurie said: > > Actually, I love the Graham Nash snippets in the Women of > > Heart & Mind > > DVD. He completely seems as though he might still be in > > love with her, > > there's such warmth and such bleary-eyed, smiling > > nostalgia... > Catherine: > Me too. I also felt he was still in love with her. How romantic! But > wouldn't you hate to be his wife seeing that? Wow. > I thought the same thing when Graham accepted for Joni at her induction into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. But I suspect Susan Nash must be a wise, "old" soul who is secure in the life she's shared with him for decades. (I've always thought Graham Nash was a true class act as a musician *and* a human being.) > > Laurie: > > Around > the house, he'd play songs and I'd stop whatever I > > was doing and listen > > with interest. But if I would play a song, he'd turn > > up the TV or go > > off in the bedroom with his book and slam the door in a > > huff because > > he'd been trying to read. It made me feel like my > > music wasn't good > > enough to warrant his caring. I would never do that to > > him. > > {Head bobbing up and down in recognition} > Catherine: > Sorry, boys. I know most of you are probably lovely people who respect your > wives/lovers/whatevers, and that some women behave this way too. I've seen > some classic cases of that. > Yes, sorry boys. :-) It's just that it's still, in most cases, waaaaaaaay easier to be a working musician (at any level of the biz) if you sport a penis. Sexism and ageism are alive and well and rampant in any kind of performing arts, except maybe, opera?? I'd love to hear more of your stories, ladies, here or off-the-list. :-) T NP on the headphones: *Hissing* demos, courtesy of one of my new cool, enlightened man *friends*. Alas, the rich are always with us. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:45:20 +0100 From: Mike Pritchard Subject: Re: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings > I think that most often people are unaware that their actions (or inactions) might be stifling their partner's creativity  snip "I'M the artist around here!"< I would add, Im the writer around here. Im thinking of Warren Beatty/John Reed asking Diane Keaton/Emma Goldman (in REDS) to go with him to the Soviet Union. She asks him a very simple question; As what?, suspecting Reed wanted her to go as a spouse, not a reporter. mike in barcelona np Kay Ashley, Pink Moon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:33:46 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings & marriage & Oscars & Travis vljc - --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Mark Scott wrote: > The lyrics to 'Willy' taken in conjunction with > Joni's comments in the WOHAM program puzzle me too. > There seems to be some inconsistency here if we take it that > the song is truly 'confessional' and a true > reflection of life. But then, an artist is supposed to > create art, not take snapshots of reality, imo. We all see things from our own perspective. Add in the passage of time and we all do a very good job of reinterpreting things in a way that helps us to move past them and live with ourselves and the decisions we've made. At least, that's the way I see it. Maybe it's a survival technique. Maybe when Joni wrote "Willy", she did see it as Graham having cold feet. Maybe later on, she decided that it wouldn't have worked out anyway because they'd be forever in competition with her. > I just read a Vanity Fair article about Cate Blanchett. > She sounds like an amazingly sane and down to earth person. > She's married to a director and the 2 of them are in > charge of a theatre in Sydney. They also have 3 young boys. > From the quotes in VF from both spouses, they work and live > well together. They are very supportive of one another in > every way. To hear them tell it, anyway. The article also > says Cate is a very private person and does not feel a part > of the whole Hollywood scene at all. > Nobody has talked much about the Oscars and I have to admit > that I haven't seen any of the movies that were > nominated (I'm always runnin' behind the times) but > I was really happy to see Kate Winslet win. I did watch the Oscars and you can see just from the short time they showed Cate going up to get her Oscar, the way she and Sam Mendes hugged one another, they come across as a very happy and well-adjusted couple. By the way, the Oscars show was pretty boring for a number of reasons, although I did like the way the handled some of it - explaining a bit what some of the categories actually mean to those of us who aren't in the film-making business. There were only a few films nominated for all the big awards and it was pretty much a given that Slumdog Millionaire or Benjamin Button was going to collect most of them. I haven't seen most of the films either and I guess I'm waiting for them to come out on DVD because going to a movie is very expensive these days (and I hate the smell of popcorn.) I haven't seen "Heavenly creatures" but have heard a lot about it. If I remember, I'll check it out at the video store. Too bad about the snow but I'm glad Travis is better! __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:23:35 EST From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: I'll never get married again > From: "Laurie Fuhr" > Subject: Re: SJC: History & Herstory > > > I'll never get married again. > Laurie > Hi, Laurie, I heard two items related to marriage last week that you might find amusing: First, the shortest fairy tale ever written: A man asked a woman to marry him. She refused, and he lived happily ever after. Second: on a tee shirt in a shop on Las Olas Blvd in Ft. Lauderdale: "Any woman looking for a husband apparently never had one" Kenny B ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http :%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:46:25 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Jungle Line I feel I need to come clean here. It was actually me that was the inspiration behind The Hissing of Summer Lawns. I was 16 at the time, a pool maintenance guy in Bel Air, and it was me that snapped the pic of Joni in her pool which she used for the album without my permission. She asked me one time as i was netting up the last of the cigarette butts from the water's surface "Dave, what shall I write my next album about?" and so the next week I brought her a list on the back of a receipt of some really cool song ideas: They are French Kissing on the Street, Jazz Junkies from the Jungle, Edith and the Pimp, The Dripping of Recently Watered Lawns, Mike's Place, The Hobo Dance, Shadows in Darkness. I remember them so well..... She said "Cool, man!" and asked me to light her a cigarette, a day I will never forget as it brought us so close. The next thing I know she's twisted my material practically unrecognizably. But I knew.....oh yes.....I knew, where those songs had come from, and did I get so much as a mention in the credits? No I did not. So now you know the true story, and if there are any others making claims to have inspired this album, please take them with a grain of salt. I still have the receipt somewhere to prove it. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:43:05 -0800 (PST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Jungle Line now Hissing through hissy fits My name? Nietzsche. Occupation: house cat. But no ordinary house cat. I am the one who gives a home a heartbeat. I am the inspurration, indeed the muse, for many a Joni Mitchell song. I am the tiger she tried to tame, one of the three cats in the yard. I played with babies at Annie's feet. I was there, man. I was there. One evening, late, I confronted Joan. I said to her, "Joan, I said, "Give credit where credit is due. I am the envoy of Bast, the all meowty and purrful. She asks you to fall on your knees and worship her. Oh, and she also asks you to acknowledge me as your inspurrration for all the songs about cats." "No way," said Joan. "You're just a cat. You're cute and furry and all that, but those songs are all mine. Oh, and by the way, cats can't talk." In anger, I arched my back, turned tail and huffed out of the room, into the night, my voice muffled by the water and the wiring in the walls. Joni ran after me and, unable to find me, burst into big boo hoos, calling her special nickname for me to come back. "Man from Mars!" she cried, "This time, you've gone too far!" "No, gutless one," I replied. "I haven't gone far enough." - --- On Fri, 2/27/09, Dave Blackburn wrote: > From: Dave Blackburn > Subject: Re: Jungle Line > To: "jmdl" > Received: Friday, February 27, 2009, 9:46 AM > I feel I need to come clean here. It was actually me that > was the inspiration behind The Hissing of Summer Lawns. I > was 16 at the time, a pool maintenance guy in Bel Air, and > it was me that snapped the pic of Joni in her pool which she > used for the album without my permission. She asked me one > time as i was netting up the last of the cigarette butts > from the water's surface "Dave, what shall I write > my next album about?" and so the next week I brought > her a list on the back of a receipt of some really cool song > ideas: They are French Kissing on the Street, Jazz Junkies > from the Jungle, Edith and the Pimp, The Dripping of > Recently Watered Lawns, Mike's Place, The Hobo Dance, > Shadows in Darkness. I remember them so well..... > She said "Cool, man!" and asked me to light her > a cigarette, a day I will never forget as it brought us so > close. The next thing I know she's twisted my material > practically unrecognizably. But I knew.....oh yes.....I > knew, where those songs had come from, and did I get so much > as a mention in the credits? No I did not. So now you know > the true story, and if there are any others making claims to > have inspired this album, please take them with a grain of > salt. I still have the receipt somewhere to prove it. > > Dave __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:15:44 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings About "Willy" and that song being a puzzle in the light of what is said on WOHAM: could it be that Joni wrote that song at the beginning of their relationship and that things changed later on? Maybe she was more ready to commit at one stage in their relationship than he was and later they both changed their minds and he became more committed than she was? It happens, you know:-) Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Mark Scott Skickat: den 27 februari 2009 03:02 Till: Catherine McKay; Laurie Fuhr; joni@smoe.org; Randy Remote Dmne: Re: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" To: "Laurie Fuhr" ; ; "Randy Remote" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Randy Remote wrote: > >> These musings are interesting in light of the recent Graham >> Nash interview, and Joni's need to be free. To hear him >> tell >> it, he had no desire to stifle her creativity -even laughed >> at the possibility, but she dumped him anyway. Yet, in >> "Willy", she >> says it's him that has the cold feet. >> >> He says he'd love to live with me >> But for an ancient injury >> That has not healed >> He said I feel once again >> Like I gave my heart too soon >> ... >> Now he wants to run away and hide >> He says our love cannot be real >> He cannot hear the chapel's pealing silver bells >> >> I suspect there are partners who allow their sig. >> other's >> creativity to flow, just as there are some that seek to >> control and suppress same. >> RR The lyrics to 'Willy' taken in conjunction with Joni's comments in the WOHAM program puzzle me too. There seems to be some inconsistency here if we take it that the song is truly 'confessional' and a true reflection of life. But then, an artist is supposed to create art, not take snapshots of reality, imo. > Sadly, I think that most creative people probably need to be alone a > great deal of the time to concentrate on their art. Not that it > can't be done, but I think it would be extremely difficult for two > artistic people to live together and continue to follow their muse > unless they have completely open and honest communication without > any bias - and that's difficult to do and takes a lot of time, and > that time takes away from time creating and so on. I just read a Vanity Fair article about Cate Blanchett. She sounds like an amazingly sane and down to earth person. She's married to a director and the 2 of them are in charge of a theatre in Sydney. They also have 3 young boys. From the quotes in VF from both spouses, they work and live well together. They are very supportive of one another in every way. To hear them tell it, anyway. The article also says Cate is a very private person and does not feel a part of the whole Hollywood scene at all. Nobody has talked much about the Oscars and I have to admit that I haven't seen any of the movies that were nominated (I'm always runnin' behind the times) but I was really happy to see Kate Winslet win. She is also married to a director, Sam Mendes who did 'American Beauty' and Kate's other big recent film with Leonardo de Caprio 'Revolutionary Road'. VF also did a piece about this Kate and she seemed to be very pleased with her marriage as well. She is an amazing actress. If you haven't seen the early Peter Jackson flick 'Heavenly Creatures', get it from Netflix or wherever you rent movies. Both Kate and Melanie Lynskey give electrifying performances as 2 teenage misfits who seem to create some kind of frenetic, frantic energy between the 2 of them. Mark in Seattle who loves movies but hardly goes to them anymore....and we had more f**king snow last night! I told Travis he was not to leave the house. He drove to the grocery store anyway. But the streets were fairly clear by that time. He is doing *very* well, by the way. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:20:53 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings & marriage & Oscars & Travis vljc Catherine, I hadn't read your post when I sent mine. I didn't mean to repeat something you already said. Shows how we think alike, though:-) Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Catherine McKay Skickat: den 27 februari 2009 13:34 Till: Laurie Fuhr; joni@smoe.org; Randy Remote; Mark Scott Dmne: Re: Art teacher Henry Bonli & musings & marriage & Oscars & Travis vljc - --- On Thu, 2/26/09, Mark Scott wrote: > The lyrics to 'Willy' taken in conjunction with > Joni's comments in the WOHAM program puzzle me too. > There seems to be some inconsistency here if we take it that > the song is truly 'confessional' and a true > reflection of life. But then, an artist is supposed to > create art, not take snapshots of reality, imo. We all see things from our own perspective. Add in the passage of time and we all do a very good job of reinterpreting things in a way that helps us to move past them and live with ourselves and the decisions we've made. At least, that's the way I see it. Maybe it's a survival technique. Maybe when Joni wrote "Willy", she did see it as Graham having cold feet. Maybe later on, she decided that it wouldn't have worked out anyway because they'd be forever in competition with her. > I just read a Vanity Fair article about Cate Blanchett. > She sounds like an amazingly sane and down to earth person. > She's married to a director and the 2 of them are in > charge of a theatre in Sydney. They also have 3 young boys. > From the quotes in VF from both spouses, they work and live > well together. They are very supportive of one another in > every way. To hear them tell it, anyway. The article also > says Cate is a very private person and does not feel a part > of the whole Hollywood scene at all. > Nobody has talked much about the Oscars and I have to admit > that I haven't seen any of the movies that were > nominated (I'm always runnin' behind the times) but > I was really happy to see Kate Winslet win. I did watch the Oscars and you can see just from the short time they showed Cate going up to get her Oscar, the way she and Sam Mendes hugged one another, they come across as a very happy and well-adjusted couple. By the way, the Oscars show was pretty boring for a number of reasons, although I did like the way the handled some of it - explaining a bit what some of the categories actually mean to those of us who aren't in the film-making business. There were only a few films nominated for all the big awards and it was pretty much a given that Slumdog Millionaire or Benjamin Button was going to collect most of them. I haven't seen most of the films either and I guess I'm waiting for them to come out on DVD because going to a movie is very expensive these days (and I hate the smell of popcorn.) I haven't seen "Heavenly creatures" but have heard a lot about it. If I remember, I'll check it out at the video store. Too bad about the snow but I'm glad Travis is better! __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:27:37 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Stevie Loves Joni from the new Rolling Stone (Taylor Swift cover): Smoking Section: SS: What albums do you love in their entirety? Stevie Nicks: I don't, usually. In the beginning, I was inspired by songwriters like Jackson Browne, David Crosby, the Eagles, Neil Young, Buffalo Springfield- those are the people I learned from. And I probably listened to Joni Mitchell's For The Roses, Blue, and Court and Spark a hundred million times. But now, I can't listen to a whole album unless it's a Fleetwood Mac record, where I made sure that every song is spectacular. Sequencing is my forte. I sequenced Rumours. Lindsey doesn't like to admit it, but he will admit it. [she also talks about the Mac tour in preparation, and how Sheryl Crow asked to join the band, but ultimately declined because of the level of commitment involved] RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:30:27 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Stevie Loves Joni erratta the sentence: Sheryl Crow asked to join the band should have read Sheryl Crow WAS asked to join the band ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:09:07 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Stevie Loves Joni erratta THAT would have been amazing! I luved Lindsay with Little Big Town. I think they ALL should be asked to replace Christine Paz On Feb 27, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Randy Remote wrote: the sentence: Sheryl Crow asked to join the band should have read Sheryl Crow WAS asked to join the band Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:03:22 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Stevie Loves Joni erratta THAT would have been amazing! I luved Lindsay with Little Big Town. I think they ALL should be asked to replace Christine Paz On Feb 27, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Randy Remote wrote: the sentence: Sheryl Crow asked to join the band should have read Sheryl Crow WAS asked to join the band Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:37:18 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Jungle Line She would never admit to that. She has such a huge ego. How could she validate a humble Joe like yourself. I mean if she rips off Kipling, Nietzche, and Earhart and the like why would she not take advantage of YOU! You have my deepest sympathy. Maybe one day you will achieve the appreciation that you deserve. A true fan Paz On Feb 27, 2009, at 8:46 AM, Dave Blackburn wrote: I feel I need to come clean here. It was actually me that was the inspiration behind The Hissing of Summer Lawns. I was 16 at the time, a pool maintenance guy in Bel Air, and it was me that snapped the pic of Joni in her pool which she used for the album without my permission. She asked me one time as i was netting up the last of the cigarette butts from the water's surface "Dave, what shall I write my next album about?" and so the next week I brought her a list on the back of a receipt of some really cool song ideas: They are French Kissing on the Street, Jazz Junkies from the Jungle, Edith and the Pimp, The Dripping of Recently Watered Lawns, Mike's Place, The Hobo Dance, Shadows in Darkness. I remember them so well..... She said "Cool, man!" and asked me to light her a cigarette, a day I will never forget as it brought us so close. The next thing I know she's twisted my material practically unrecognizably. But I knew.....oh yes.....I knew, where those songs had come from, and did I get so much as a mention in the credits? No I did not. So now you know the true story, and if there are any others making claims to have inspired this album, please take them with a grain of salt. I still have the receipt somewhere to prove it. Dave Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #58 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe