From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #5 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, January 7 2009 Volume 2009 : Number 005 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: new Joni book - now about Girls Like Us [Lieve Reckers ] RE: Steely Dan [anon anon ] Re: Steely Dan [Dave Blackburn ] new Joni book - now about Girls Like Us [Marianne Rizzo ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:04:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Lieve Reckers Subject: Re: new Joni book - now about Girls Like Us Corey, thanks for your reaction.B I'm glad you are enjoying the book.B I understand what you say about the asterisks and asides, but I must say in the book's defense that I found the author handled this very well, compared to other biographies and researched history books I have read, where the asides are often dull or obscure or irrelevant.B Without these asides, she would either have ended up with more of a ramble in the main text, or have had to drop information that I am glad I got in those asides.B I think the advantage of an aside is that you can decide to read it, or read it later, without having the main flow of the book affected.B While reading this book, I thought several times to myself: "ThisB side note isB really interesting,B I'm glad she put this here."B I hope you will continue to enjoy the rest of the read, Corey!B (I still have a small portion left to go too, but it will have to wait a few days until I have the right time.B I am sort of expecting a bit of a let-down, as the more recent unfinished business of a biography is often a rush job without the benefit of perspective.) Marion, isn't it funny how we react so differently to the same book?B IB said that I thought the book was well researched, you wrote that the book is totallyB lacking serious analysis.B I really respect your opinion and see no need to try and convince you of my viewpoint, but maybe a little friendly exchange could be useful?B Could you maybe tell me what sort of analysis you found missing?B Maybe we just had different expectations.B For instance, as I think Corey also said, the book does not go into great detail about the music, although I find it does reflect the spirit of the music quite well.B But certainly ifB one really wants to read about the music and analyse it, this is not the right book.B I know this is probably not what you were after, but I mean to say that maybe it is similar, i.e. that you simply wanted to find something that the author had not set out to do.B For me she did almost exactly what I could have wished for.B And I certainly don't wantB gory-detailed gossip or breach of privacy (which I so hate in many newspapers).B I felt that the sources, named and unnamed, stayed within the boundaries of what was either already known (but the author's achievement wasB to putB it all together in context) or what remained respectful. It's true, much remains say-so and objective opinion/observation, but I feel that is inevitable in a biography, evenB (or even more so!) if it had been with the input of the subjects themselves! Marion, just looking again at what you wrote, I understand you would like more analysis of things reported by third parties.B Would that not be, in most cases, justB more hypothesis and guess work, and would it therefore not be better to just leave us to discretely ponder by ourselves?B I'd be happy to get some examples of what you fund missing, but in any case we don't need to end up persuading each other, it's just fun to understand what the other means! Tastes vary with books as with music and that's all good, but to me this is a really great book that deserves more credit than it has got here, so I'm happy to represent that voice just for balance. All the best, Lieve in London. - ---------- Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:03:20 -0800 From: Corey Blake Subject: Hi Lieve, Thanks for your review of the book. I'm reading it now. I'm maybeB about a third of the way through. There's a lot of information I neverB knew, so it's a really fascinating read for me. However, her sentenceB structure has a tendency to get a bit unwieldy. She also really lovesB her asides and asterisks. And while she does have a lot of unnamedB sources, she also has a lot of really good first hand sources (shy ofB Joni and Carole themselves of course) like Larry Klien and otherB musicians and friends. (cut) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:46:48 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: New Joni book I agree with you Bob, but in my opinion investigating the darker side would also demand some sort of serious analysis on the author's part, which I find nearly totally lacking in Sheila Weller's book. Without it, the info she gives - often referring to anonymous sources - is just gossip. There is only one section in the book that does do some analysing, the part where she reflects on Joni's decision to give up Kelly for adoption and presents an interesting interpretation. My opinion, of course. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:33:24 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Steely Dan Remember Joni was a fan of Miles Davis, probably years before Aja was recorded, so she would have heard Wayne in 1967 on Nefertiti. Just as likely, having met Jaco in 1976 who had just joined Weather Report, Joni was introduced to Wayne directly. We had a Joni/Steely Dan thread going a few months back and I, among others, pointed out some strong similarities in their chordal harmony and word painting. Dave On Jan 6, 2009, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:31:54 -0600 > From: "Dan Olson" > Subject: Re: Steely Dan > > I wonder if Joni's insider knowledge of the recording of > "Aja" (with Larry > Carlton and Wayne Shorter, among others) influenced her decision to > get > Wayne Shorter to play on DJRD (recorded at roughly the same time in > 1977)? > Of course, Wayne continued collaborating with Joni continuously for > the next > 3 DECADES (but strangely, not on Shine). > > ~Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:19:52 -0500 From: anon anon Subject: RE: Steely Dan > From: beatntrack@sbcglobal.net > Subject: Re: Steely Dan > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:33:24 -0800 > To: joni@smoe.org; dgolson999@gmail.com > > Remember Joni was a fan of Miles Davis, probably years before Aja was > recorded, so she would have heard Wayne in 1967 on Nefertiti. Just as > likely, having met Jaco in 1976 who had just joined Weather Report, > Joni was introduced to Wayne directly. > > We had a Joni/Steely Dan thread going a few months back and I, among > others, pointed out some strong similarities in their chordal harmony > and word painting. > > Dave > the one advantage, perhaps, that Joni has over SD, is that Joni's music is often very emotional... SD's lyrics, while very clever and interesting, seems much more detached, generally speaking... _________________________________________________________________ Its the same Hotmail.. If by same you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_12 2008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:24:01 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Steely Dan I agree that Joni's music was more emotional at certain times in her career but often she was describing characters or scenes vividly with an emotional detachment, something Fagen and Becker did great too (I'm thinking of the beautiful ennui of Deacon Blues or Babylon Sisters and how they compare to, say, Harry's House.) Dave On Jan 6, 2009, at 8:19 AM, anon anon wrote: > > > > From: beatntrack@sbcglobal.net > > Subject: Re: Steely Dan > > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:33:24 -0800 > > To: joni@smoe.org; dgolson999@gmail.com > > > > Remember Joni was a fan of Miles Davis, probably years before Aja > was > > recorded, so she would have heard Wayne in 1967 on Nefertiti. > Just as > > likely, having met Jaco in 1976 who had just joined Weather Report, > > Joni was introduced to Wayne directly. > > > > We had a Joni/Steely Dan thread going a few months back and I, among > > others, pointed out some strong similarities in their chordal > harmony > > and word painting. > > > > Dave > > > > the one advantage, perhaps, that Joni has over SD, is that > Joni's music is often very emotional... SD's lyrics, while very > clever and interesting, > seems much more detached, generally speaking... > > Its the same Hotmail.. If by same you mean up to 70% faster. Get > your account now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:46:42 -0500 From: Marianne Rizzo Subject: new Joni book - now about Girls Like Us Lieve, Thanks for taking the time to write all of that. I have read some of the book (Girls like Us) and from what I have read, I agree with what you said. I find it to be sociologically contextual and analytical. Perhaps, and maybe this could be a criticism, perhaps it over analyzes. . . and maybe some of the interpretations are st r etches. something like that. I like the book, from what I have read so far. I feel the author is a very good writer and sociologist type. (I guess the true test is what Joni and Carlie and Carole King thinks). Marianne ------------------------------ From: Lieve Reckers Subject: re: new Joni book - now about Girls Like Us _________________________________________________________________ Its the same Hotmail.. If by same you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_12 2008 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:32:01 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: No digests since #002 Strangely, this fails http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2009.n002 but the next ones work: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2010.n002 http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2010.n003 http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2010.n004 http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/v2010.n005 fails too. Jim L ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2009 #5 ******************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe