From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #200 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, October 13 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 200 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Hisssssssss... [Wtking59@cs.com] RE: STAS and me ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Hisssssssss... [Monika Bogdanowicz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:21:04 EDT From: Wtking59@cs.com Subject: Hisssssssss... First of all, NO artist that I can think of in the history of popular music ever changed as radically as Joni did between 'CAS' and "THOSL.' If it weren't for the similarity in the vocals, one would almost think it was an entirely different person. I mean, change and progression is ONE thing (which, BTW, I greatly admire...and believe Joni masterfully demonstrated between albums 1 and 6), but THIS was an entirely different kettle of fish. As if she'd somehow been "replaced" with an alien "pod person" (straight outta "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"). Even the extremely awkward clumsiness of the title--which Rolling Stone Magazine voted "worst album title of the year" in 1975--was uncharacteristically bizarre. And since Bob Dylan has always written from basically the same perspective (i.e., social and political commentary laced with personal observation), then I suppose--using your logic (see below)--that makes him only a "good" artist (rather than a "great" one), and that his subsequent albums of the past forty-plus years get "old fast" (NOT) !?!?!?! You asked: "what if Joni would have stopped and retired from music after 'FTR'?" Well, if she'd stopped (let's say after 'CAS/MOA' instead) I don't think her first-rate reputation would have suffered much. After all, like it or not her legendary status remains largely based on her first six albums. Even if--God forbid--she'd tragically died young, I'd like to believe Joni would STILL be highly regarded and remembered (I mean, just look at the posthumous fame of Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin!). Perhaps if the standard at the time (i.e., to release an album of new material basically every year!) had been different--and Joni would have waited longer than the 2 years it took her to produce 'THOSL'--she'd been able to come up with something more substantial. But unfortunately for her, it didn't happen that way. Instead, it sounded as if she'd seriously lost her "muse" to me (due to the distractions of --take your pick--continuous touring, newfound interests in general, disappointing romantic relationships, more money and/or commercial success, drugs...who knows for sure). A question once posed to Joni in a late 70's interview went something like this: Q: There was a time when you and the great Laura Nyro (who basically retired at 24 after releasing only 4 classic albums) were considered the leading representatives of the female singer/songwriter genre. Now it's generally considered that Nyro wasn't strong enough to survive in the business. How have you survived? Joni answered that she didn't necessarily agree, and added that "what Laura Nyro did was brave and strong in its own way" and went on to say that she'd seriously considered doing the same thing on several occasions. Therefore, what would we have missed (man--LOL) had she quit? Quite a bit, IMO. At the same time, however, I guess one could argue that we'd have also been spared the sometimes inferior work that clutters--and, perhaps, diminishes--her discography. So, let's just respectfully agree to disagree on this issue. XXXOOO, Billy ___________________________________________ motitan75@yahoo.com wrote: >>> Right on. If Joni didn't go through her twists and tuns in her musical career, we would not have all that music she produced when going through such changes. And if she didn't change oh so much, wouldn't you be a little disappointed? She's be a good artist, I think, but not a great artist. If she decided to stick with music and keep recycling "Blue," (as some bands do...they reproduce a good album basically over and over...using the same formula and such), you'd love that album or the albums she made prior but it would get old fast. Then again, what if Joni would have stopped and retired from music after FTR? She has stated that was when she first began thinking such thoughts---just leaving the music business. FTR could serve as a swan album of sorts......think of what we would have missed man! - - -Monika <<< ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:14:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: STAS and me Yes, I had one of those record players too. Nice to read a post from you here Ashara! Kate Ashara>>I was 12, and my cousin had just bought the album as soon as it was released. As she played it for me on her "suitcase-typer" record player, (anyone remember those?) << ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2008 14:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Hisssssssss... As you may well know, we will never see eye to eye on the topic of THOSL so it is almost useless going back and forth trying to pass an idea here or there though I do enjoy the varying opinions. I will nod my head when you say we must agree to disagree. What more can be said? As for RS calling THOSL the worst album title of the year, well, their opinion on anything has been useless now for years. I would never turn to a magazine or a critic (or even another fan) to form my own opinion. I will say I do like to read the reviews and hear fans' opinions on different works. I particularly enjoy looking at Amazon.com (or reading opinions here as far as Joni is concerned). That is filled with regular people expressing their opinion with no agenda. I like to get an idea of what an album or book or whatever it is, is about before getting it for myself.. And as far as Dylan goes, I would stand by what you implied I said. Indeed, I would say Dylan is a good artist, not a great artist. Great songwriter. Good musician. Decent guitarist. Some great albums. Some good albums. Some shit albums. Not such a good singer but his voice is perfect for what he does so yes, good artist but not great artist (and I am a fan of Dylan's). - -Monika, who thinks THOSL was the perfect, fitting title for the album - --- On Sun, 10/12/08, Wtking59@cs.com wrote: Even the extremely awkward clumsiness of the title--which Rolling Stone Magazine voted "worst album title of the year" in 1975--was uncharacteristically bizarre. And since Bob Dylan has always written from basically the same perspective (i.e., social and political commentary laced with personal observation), then I suppose--using your logic (see below)--that makes him only a "good" artist (rather than a "great" one), and that his subsequent albums of the past forty-plus years get "old fast" (NOT) !?!?!?! You asked: "what if Joni would have stopped and retired from music after 'FTR'?" Well, if she'd stopped (let's say after 'CAS/MOA' instead) I don't think her first-rate reputation would have suffered much. After all, like it or not her legendary status remains largely based on her first six albums. Even if--God forbid--she'd tragically died young, I'd like to believe Joni would STILL be highly regarded and remembered (I mean, just look at the posthumous fame of Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin!). Perhaps if the standard at the time (i.e., to release an album of new material basically every year!) had been different--and Joni would have waited longer than the 2 years it took her to produce 'THOSL'--she'd been able to come up with something more substantial. But unfortunately for her, it didn't happen that way. Instead, it sounded as if she'd seriously lost her "muse" to me (due to the distractions of --take your pick--continuous touring, newfound interests in general, disappointing romantic relationships, more money and/or commercial success, drugs...who knows for sure). A question once posed to Joni in a late 70's interview went something like this: Q: There was a time when you and the great Laura Nyro (who basically retired at 24 after releasing only 4 classic albums) were considered the leading representatives of the female singer/songwriter genre. Now it's generally considered that Nyro wasn't strong enough to survive in the business. How have you survived? Joni answered that she didn't necessarily agree, and added that "what Laura Nyro did was brave and strong in its own way" and went on to say that she'd seriously considered doing the same thing on several occasions. Therefore, what would we have missed (man--LOL) had she quit? Quite a bit, IMO. At the same time, however, I guess one could argue that we'd have also been spared the sometimes inferior work that clutters--and, perhaps, diminishes--her discography. So, let's just respectfully agree to disagree on this issue. XXXOOO, Billy ___________________________________________ motitan75@yahoo.com wrote: >>> Right on. If Joni didn't go through her twists and tuns in her musical career, we would not have all that music she produced when going through such changes. And if she didn't change oh so much, wouldn't you be a little disappointed? She's be a good artist, I think, but not a great artist. If she decided to stick with music and keep recycling "Blue," (as some bands do...they reproduce a good album basically over and over...using the same formula and such), you'd love that album or the albums she made prior but it would get old fast. Then again, what if Joni would have stopped and retired from music after FTR? She has stated that was when she first began thinking such thoughts---just leaving the music business. FTR could serve as a swan album of sorts......think of what we would have missed man! - - -Monika <<< ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #200 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe