From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #184 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, September 27 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 184 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Notes from Sharon ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Now: Happy Birthday 1975 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Notes from Sharon [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Sharon Update [Bob Muller ] Re: Notes from Sharon [Bob Muller ] Re: Notes from Sharon [Monika Bogdanowicz ] The Music of Joni Mitchell [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: The Music of Joni Mitchell [Bob Muller ] will Joni ever mellow out? [anon anon ] Re: will Joni ever mellow out? ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: The Music of Joni Mitchell [Michael Flaherty ] Re: will Joni ever mellow out? ["Corey Blake" ] The Seeding of Summer Lawns ["Kay Ashley" ] Re: will Joni ever mellow out? ["T Peckham" ] Re: will Joni ever mellow out? ["Corey Blake" ] Fwd: will Joni ever mellow out? ["T Peckham" ] Re: will Joni ever mellow out? ["Corey Blake" ] RE: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs [do9eatdo9@yahoo.co] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:32:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Notes from Sharon Can you imagine anything more wonderful than having Joni write a song in your honor? Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:33:49 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Now: Happy Birthday 1975 Or going back further to that other bob, how bout the talking blues? kate Subject: Re: Notes from Sharon Hey Bob, how about inviting Sharon to the next Jonifest or one that she is available to attend? Mark in Sydney NP Wild Is The Wind - George Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:59:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Sharon Update Hi gang, Thought I'd forward the note I received from Lisa Veer, Sharon's daughter: "Thanks for sharing these with us! Some of them made me tear up a bit. I think it's a bit overwhelming for my mum and me. I spoke with her tonight and she'll write to you again soon. I think she just needs to digest everything. It's all quite surprising to her. If you have any more you could send, that would be super." So....if you were touched by what Sharon shared with us, let me know so that I can pass the good feelings along. Bob NP: Pat Carey, "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:04:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Notes from Sharon Certainly a great idea - Winnipeg, anyone? :o) And maybe she can talk her friend Joni into coming too! Bob NP: Son Volt, "Live Free" - ----- Original Message ---- From: Mark-Leon Thorne To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Cc: JMDL Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:45:37 AM Subject: Re: Notes from Sharon Hey Bob, how about inviting Sharon to the next Jonifest or one that she is available to attend? Mark in Sydney NP Wild Is The Wind - George Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:06:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Notes from Sharon Having her write an entire album in your honor? Haha, I'm kidding. - -Monika - --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Kate Bennett wrote: Can you imagine anything more wonderful than having Joni write a song in your honor? Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:08:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: The Music of Joni Mitchell Well I just borrowed this book from the library. In a few words or less (as I do know this book has been discussed), is the book worth a read? I will warn you that even if you tell me it is the worst book ever written by any human being, I'm still reading it! - -Monika NR: The Music of Joni Mitchell! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:04:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: The Music of Joni Mitchell In a word: challenging. I read MOST of it, some of it was WAY over my head (the discussion of Joni's compositional harmonics and such). The book is very well-researched and kudos to Whitesell for considering Joni's ENTIRE body of work (except Shine which had just come out when he was completing it) in his writing, which sometimes is a bit pretentious in terms of his vocabulary - still, I enjoyed it, just felt like I was reading a textbook. Bob NP: My Morning Jacket, "I'm Amazed" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:11:47 -0400 From: anon anon Subject: will Joni ever mellow out? Don't get me wrong, I love Joni's music. However, she seems to me, from reading about her, to be basically a very temperamental, angry, bitter, demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a softer side under neathe, and that side can be glimpsed in her songs, but that side of her seems to be overshadowed by her tough, difficult side... I hope that she becomes softer as she gets older... _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550 F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:49:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? anon anon wrote: > Don't get me wrong, I love Joni's music. However, she seems to me, > from > reading about her, to be basically a very temperamental, angry, bitter, > demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a softer > side > under neathe, and that side can be glimpsed in her songs, but that side of > her > seems to be overshadowed by her tough, difficult side... I hope that she > becomes softer as she gets older... That ship has sailed :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:09:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: The Music of Joni Mitchell >>In a word: challenging. >>I read MOST of it, some of it was WAY over my head (the discussion of Joni's compositional harmonics and such). I haven't read it and probably won't, because I'm not really interested in studying Joni's music from that angle. However, I'm glad this book is out there as I think she deserves this kind of study on some level. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:16:16 -0700 From: "Corey Blake" Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? Anon, you should watch Joni's interview on Tavis Smiley. She's very cute and seems very happy. Sure, there are some digs at pop music (which really are quite justified) but she seems genuinely touched by Tavis' affection for her and her music. I really enjoyed it. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Jerry Notaro wrote: > anon anon wrote: > > Don't get me wrong, I love Joni's music. However, she seems to me, > > from > > reading about her, to be basically a very temperamental, angry, bitter, > > demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a softer > > side > > under neathe, and that side can be glimpsed in her songs, but that side > of > > her > > seems to be overshadowed by her tough, difficult side... I hope that she > > becomes softer as she gets older... > > That ship has sailed :) > - -- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Newest video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrlQ9gU-9HU ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:06:41 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: The Seeding of Summer Lawns Hello Everyone, I know that a lot of you already have this bootleg, but I just found it today on the BigOzine web site and thought I'd compile it for you guys and put it on YouSendIt.com. The files are 192 kbps MP3s and I attached the cover image to the files, so they're iPod-ready. BigO is only making it available for 48 hours, but you have a week to get it here: https://rcpt.yousendit.com/609928884/8ef60bfea77f961d858ba972f1942c24 If any of you don't know about BigO, check it out. Weekly free bootlegs, lots of interesting stuff. They also have the Fleetwood Mac "Largo" live bootleg available now, only for the next 48 hours. Link to Joni on BigO (you can get complete artwork and liner notes): http://www.bigozine2.com/archive/ARrarities07/ARjmseeding.html Link to Fleetwood Mac's Largo: http://www.bigozine2.com/archive/ARrarities07/ARfmlargo.html :-) Kay ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ KAY ASHLEY ~ Singer-Songwriter http://www.kayashley.com http://www.myspace.com/kayashley http://www.sonicbids.com/kayashley http://www.new.facebook.com/people/Kay_Ashley/585981930 Ring the bells that still can ring. Forget your perfect offering. There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. ~Leonard Cohen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:36:10 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? Say what?!? NO OFFENSE personally intended to anon or Corey--but to call Ms. Mitchell "cute" is just wrong on so many levels that I'll leave it to others (perhaps?) to address it. I do agree about her interaction with Tavis Smiley, tho. "However, she seems to me, from reading about her, to be basically a very temperamental, angry, bitter, demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a softer side . . ." Well, duh! Guess what: Most true artists, those who actually create a body of work on a high level, who do what they do because they feel compelled to (whether it be music, art, dance, writing, whatever form), are, by nature, "temperamental, demanding, and difficult." I've never understood why those are pejoratives (in this context) in American culture. Ms. Mitchell, who I think speaks best for herself, has described what it feels like to have her "temperament": It feels like you're walking around in the world missing your outer layer of skin, or as if your skin has been peeled back (excuse my clumsy paraphrasing. JM librarians, pls. help!) It is to be hyper-aware of everything going on around you, at times to feel bombarded with thoughts, feelings, reactions, good and bad. Where else do you think her universal, intuitive writing and composing comes from? It comes from remaining open to all that input and to her own feelings, which she translates into works of art for herself, and for us. Not very many people are able to do that, much less sustain it over a lifetime, especially in the pop/rock music game. (And especially when one is, essentially, a jazz artist.) In order to create anything of quality, one has to "demand" the best from oneself AND others around them---and "temperamental" people are usually hardest on themselves. Personally, I wish we had a few more "difficult," perfectionist people in charge of the country, for instance. ;-) The only way someone like Ms. Mitchell (and a lot of us) can survive is to develop a "hard" protective outer shell, which may appear to some at times as being "arrogant." As for "angry" and "bitter"---I don't believe that anyone who feels that way *all the time* is capable of continuing to produce thoughtful, beautiful work as Joni does. I also believe that if you've been paying attention at all to events in this country and the world in the last decade (or the last three decades), there's something wrong if you AREN'T * sometimes* angry and bitter. A lot of what Joni has been writing all these years is happening right now---"short-sighted businessmen," indeed! It's no fun being prescient in this society. That she has done so while remaining absolutely true to herself--and with immense dignity and grace--is nothing short of astonishing. Particularly as a woman. Even tho she finally has received some of the respect she is due, there is still plenty lacking, and much of it, I'm sorry to say, is gender-based. Witness the completely clumsy, utterly tone-deaf, uncharacteristically uninformed and condescending Charlie Rose interview. (Ok, I won't go off on that again . . . ;-) ). [I apologize for the somewhat disjointed writing---I had a much better draft going, but one of my dear furry ones jumped on the keyboard and zapped it---not even gmail could save it! So I've been trying to reconstruct and not doing a great job of it. But you get my drift! :-P ]. As for hoping she "becomes softer as she gets older"---excuse me, but what does that matter to you? Are you referring to her music, or to her personality? I happen to believe that, just like her smoking habit, it's nobody's business what her personal life is like. And unless you're likely to meet her and spend time with her as a friend or to work with her, what does it matter? Good lord, hasn't she given us enough?!? And finally, again, NO OFFENSE personally to anon, but I'm really sick of the whole American idea that everybody has to be happy (or at least act like they are) ALL THE TIME. It seems to me that many Europeans have a much better grasp on reality, born of centuries of experience--but that's a whole 'nother topic. I have a lot more thoughts on this, but would really like to hear everyone else's thoughts and opinions. (I know there have been many discussions on these subjects here previously, but since I wasn't around for those, I'm hoping we can start some more!) But for now, I've got to "prepare" for the debate---- :-D . Cheers, everyone! Terra On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Corey Blake wrote: > Anon, you should watch Joni's interview on Tavis Smiley. She's very cute > and > seems very happy. Sure, there are some digs at pop music (which really are > quite justified) but she seems genuinely touched by Tavis' affection for > her > and her music. I really enjoyed it. > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Jerry Notaro wrote: > > > anon anon wrote: > > > Don't get me wrong, I love Joni's music. However, she seems to me, > > > from > > > reading about her, to be basically a very temperamental, angry, bitter, > > > demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a > softer > > > side > > > under neathe, and that side can be glimpsed in her songs, but that side > > of > > > her > > > seems to be overshadowed by her tough, difficult side... I hope that > she > > > becomes softer as she gets older... > > > > That ship has sailed :) > > > > > > -- > http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me > > Newest video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrlQ9gU-9HU > - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:47:34 -0700 From: "Corey Blake" Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? Since when is being cute offensive or wrong? On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM, T Peckham wrote: > Say what?!? > > NO OFFENSE personally intended to anon or Corey--but to call Ms. Mitchell > "cute" is just wrong on so many levels that I'll leave it to others > (perhaps?) to address it. I do agree about her interaction with Tavis > Smiley, tho. > > "However, she seems to me, from reading about her, to be basically a very > temperamental, angry, bitter, > demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a > softer side . . ." > > Well, duh! Guess what: Most true artists, those who actually create a body > of work on a high level, who do what they do because they feel compelled > to (whether it be music, art, dance, writing, whatever form), are, by > nature, "temperamental, demanding, and difficult." I've never understood why > those are pejoratives (in this context) in American culture. Ms. Mitchell, > who I think speaks best for herself, has described what it feels like to > have her "temperament": It feels like you're walking around in the world > missing your outer layer of skin, or as if your skin has been peeled back > (excuse my clumsy paraphrasing. JM librarians, pls. help!) It is to be > hyper-aware of everything going on around you, at times to feel bombarded > with thoughts, feelings, reactions, good and bad. Where else do you think > her universal, intuitive writing and composing comes from? It comes from > remaining open to all that input and to her own feelings, which she > translates into works of art for herself, and for us. Not very many people > are able to do that, much less sustain it over a lifetime, especially in the > pop/rock music game. (And especially when one is, essentially, a jazz > artist.) > > In order to create anything of quality, one has to "demand" the best from > oneself AND others around them---and "temperamental" people are usually > hardest on themselves. Personally, I wish we had a few more "difficult," > perfectionist people in charge of the country, for instance. ;-) > > The only way someone like Ms. Mitchell (and a lot of us) can survive is to > develop a "hard" protective outer shell, which may appear to some at times > as being "arrogant." As for "angry" and "bitter"---I don't believe that > anyone who feels that way *all the time* is capable of continuing to > produce thoughtful, beautiful work as Joni does. I also believe that if > you've been paying attention at all to events in this country and the world > in the last decade (or the last three decades), there's something wrong if > you AREN'T *sometimes* angry and bitter. A lot of what Joni has been > writing all these years is happening right now---"short-sighted > businessmen," indeed! It's no fun being prescient in this society. That she > has done so while remaining absolutely true to herself--and with immense > dignity and grace--is nothing short of astonishing. Particularly as a woman. > Even tho she finally has received some of the respect she is due, there is > still plenty lacking, and much of it, I'm sorry to say, is gender-based. > Witness the completely clumsy, utterly tone-deaf, uncharacteristically > uninformed and condescending Charlie Rose interview. (Ok, I won't go off on > that again . . . ;-) ). > > [I apologize for the somewhat disjointed writing---I had a much better > draft going, but one of my dear furry ones jumped on the keyboard and zapped > it---not even gmail could save it! So I've been trying to reconstruct and > not doing a great job of it. But you get my drift! :-P ]. > > As for hoping she "becomes softer as she gets older"---excuse me, but what > does that matter to you? Are you referring to her music, or to her > personality? I happen to believe that, just like her smoking habit, it's > nobody's business what her personal life is like. And unless you're likely > to meet her and spend time with her as a friend or to work with her, what > does it matter? Good lord, hasn't she given us enough?!? > > And finally, again, NO OFFENSE personally to anon, but I'm really sick of > the whole American idea that everybody has to be happy (or at least act like > they are) ALL THE TIME. It seems to me that many Europeans have a much > better grasp on reality, born of centuries of experience--but that's a whole > 'nother topic. > > I have a lot more thoughts on this, but would really like to hear everyone > else's thoughts and opinions. (I know there have been many discussions on > these subjects here previously, but since I wasn't around for those, I'm > hoping we can start some more!) > > But for now, I've got to "prepare" for the debate---- :-D . Cheers, > everyone! > Terra > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 2:16 PM, Corey Blake wrote: > >> Anon, you should watch Joni's interview on Tavis Smiley. She's very cute >> and >> seems very happy. Sure, there are some digs at pop music (which really are >> quite justified) but she seems genuinely touched by Tavis' affection for >> her >> and her music. I really enjoyed it. >> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Jerry Notaro >> wrote: >> >> > anon anon wrote: >> > > Don't get me wrong, I love Joni's music. However, she seems to me, >> > > from >> > > reading about her, to be basically a very temperamental, angry, >> bitter, >> > > demanding, hard, arrogant, difficult person... I'm sure she has a >> softer >> > > side >> > > under neathe, and that side can be glimpsed in her songs, but that >> side >> > of >> > > her >> > > seems to be overshadowed by her tough, difficult side... I hope that >> she >> > > becomes softer as she gets older... >> > >> > That ship has sailed :) >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of >> me >> >> Newest video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrlQ9gU-9HU >> > > > > -- > Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my > sweet ass. > - -- http://www.CoreyBlake.com - a whole lot of me Newest video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrlQ9gU-9HU ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:34:01 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Fwd: will Joni ever mellow out? SORRY! Forgot to put the list address in! - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: T Peckham Date: Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:31 PM Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? To: Corey Blake Hi Corey, I don't think cute is offensive or wrong--in fact, I think it's great!--if you're sixteen, or a kitten/puppy/baby duck**, or my James Taylor look-alike college boyfriend--- :-D ---I just think there are better adjectives to descibe Joni, and my *guess* is that she *might* think so, too. That was my knee-jerk reaction. **I love Susan Sarandon's reaction in the movie "Bull Durham" when Tim Robbins, as Ebby Calvin La Louche, who is trying to resist her attempts at seduction so as not to break his winning streak, says to her, "Oh yeah, I think you're *real* cute!" "CUTE!" she snaps back at him, "baby ducks are CUTE!!" That's all I meant. :-P Terra On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Corey Blake wrote: > Since when is being cute offensive or wrong? > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM, T Peckham > wrote: > > > Say what?!? > > > > NO OFFENSE personally intended to anon or Corey--but to call Ms. Mitchell > > "cute" is just wrong on so many levels that I'll leave it to others > > (perhaps?) to address it. I do agree about her interaction with Tavis > > Smiley, tho. > - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:08:15 -0700 From: "Corey Blake" Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? Hi Terra, Thanks for the response. I think this might come down to semantics and/or baggage connected to a word. My wife calls me cute (even though she's obviously lying), and I'm not a small fuzzy animal or a college boyfriend. I've seen my father be cute (although I'll never admit I wrote this if anyone ever tells him). It's not meant to be condescending, demeaning or belittling. To be fair, the word can obviously be used in that way, but in my circles that's not usually how it's used. It might be different for you. I thought Joni came across as incredibly warm, endearing and charming in that interview. That doesn't take away from her strength and power of character. That just makes her an actual human being who is capable of many emotions and states of being, which was my intent in using it as an example for Anon in how Joni is not always bitter and angry. I hope that helps. - -Corey On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 4:34 PM, T Peckham wrote: > SORRY! Forgot to put the list address in! > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: T Peckham > Date: Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:31 PM > Subject: Re: will Joni ever mellow out? > To: Corey Blake > > > Hi Corey, > I don't think cute is offensive or wrong--in fact, I think it's great!--if > you're sixteen, or a kitten/puppy/baby duck**, or my James Taylor > look-alike > college boyfriend--- :-D ---I just think there are better adjectives to > descibe Joni, and my *guess* is that she *might* think so, too. That was my > knee-jerk reaction. > > **I love Susan Sarandon's reaction in the movie "Bull Durham" when Tim > Robbins, as Ebby Calvin La Louche, who is trying to resist her attempts at > seduction so as not to break his winning streak, says to her, "Oh yeah, I > think you're *real* cute!" "CUTE!" she snaps back at him, "baby ducks are > CUTE!!" > > That's all I meant. :-P > > Terra > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Corey Blake > wrote: > > > Since when is being cute offensive or wrong? > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 3:36 PM, T Peckham > > wrote: > > > > > Say what?!? > > > > > > NO OFFENSE personally intended to anon or Corey--but to call Ms. > Mitchell > > > "cute" is just wrong on so many levels that I'll leave it to others > > > (perhaps?) to address it. I do agree about her interaction with Tavis > > > Smiley, tho. > > > > > > -- > Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my > sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:26:13 +0700 From: do9eatdo9@yahoo.com Subject: RE: Sharon Update+ favorite character on Joni's songs Bob wrote: So....if you were touched by what Sharon shared with us, let me know so that I can pass the good feelings along. >> Tell her that she has a place in heart and mind of all Joni fans and that "Sharon" is one of most favorite characters on Joni's songs. Rian PS. For reason unknown, my most favorite character on Joni's song is : Edith. What's yours? ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #184 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe