From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #154 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, August 30 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 154 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Mariona and Marian [missblux@googlemail.com] re: Mariona and Marian ["marian" ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns [Jerry Notaro ] jonifest blues ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: River [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns [Moni Kellermann ] Re: Strathmore Joni Tribute [Bob Muller ] Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 [Bob Muller ] Re: Joni Mitchell Covers, Volume #103 & More Covers ["ron" ] Re: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: jonifest [Garret ] Re: jonifest [Garret ] RE: cookbook and privacy concerns ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns ["Marian Russell" ] Joni's lyrics and psychological aspects ["Marian Russell" ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Privacy concerns ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: River ["Mark Angelo" ] Jonifest Report: Best.Fest.Ever Part 1 [Bob Muller ] Jonifest 2008 - a tipsy recollection... [Chris Marshall ] Re: cookbook and privacy concerns [Catherine McKay Subject: Fest reports Hi everybody, well, I used up all my hankies drying my tears of regret for not having been able to go to the fest and am finally ready to thank everybody who took the trouble to report to the list. Sounds like you all had a wonderful time! And reading the reports I feel I know you better now though I wasn't there. I hope that somebody will load up pictures and maybe even music, that would be so great! Another matter: in some replies to Marian, her name was spelled Marion. That's alright with me but if you would like a cookbook file make sure you mail the right Marian (Russell) since I don't have it. Love to you all, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:30:57 -0700 From: "marian" Subject: re: Mariona and Marian Thank you, Bene. I wish I could have attended. We vacationed this year in the Cottswolds not far from Stroud, but I couldn't manage to make this trip coincide with the time of the Jonifest because of the schedules of other family members. It is such a wonderful experience to share the love of Joni's music with so many other people, and to be present for and bask in their various renditions of her songs, and just to hear all the wisdom that everyone has to share, not to mention the good humor and good fun. I'm glad for everyone who could experience this at the most recent fest in the UK. Maybe next time! I'm not so far away, just family visits and vacations with grandparents and aunts and uncles and grandchildren and their schedules have to take priority for awhile. All the best, Marian - ---------------------------------------- From: missblux@googlemail.com Sent: 29 August 2008 00:45 To: "Joni LIST" Subject: Mariona and Marian Hi Marion, it's a pity you could not make it! Just to say that I wish I remember who it was I spoke to in Holycombe about you, there was a real confusion between German Marion in Sweden and American Marian in Austria, and coming home I wanted to email the person but I forgot! Bene Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:12:18 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Fest reports Hi everybody, well, I used up all my hankies drying my tears of regret for not having been able to go to the fest and am finally ready to thank everybody who took the trouble to report to the list. Sounds like you all had a wonderful time! And reading the reports I feel I know you better now though I wasn't there. I hope that somebody will load up pictures and maybe even music, that would be so great! Another matter: in some replies to Marian, her name was spelled Marion. That's alright with me but if you would like a cookbook file make sure you mail the right Marian (Russell) since I don't have it. Love to you all, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:51:34 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns Moni, Did you find the cookbook using Google? Is that what you are saying? I was unaware it was posted anywhere and that it can be freely downloaded. If that is true, please let us know so I don't need to personally send it out one by one which is what I have been doing for all these years. If it isn't, then your comparison doesn't fly. Jerry > Wie Kate Bennett so vortrefflich formulierte: >> Moni, I'll try. There are gigantic ranges of comfort that people have about >> their privacy. For example, Joni wrote very personal songs. In interviews >> & concerts she would share much about her life with complete strangers. >> Much of her personal life is archived & accessible & will be for generations >> to come. I don't see any difference between that & what is shared on lists >> such as this. Some people don't feel comfortable sharing their personal >> thoughts while others, by nature of their personality or perhaps their >> profession, feel just fine. Hope this helps a bit. Kate > > Hi, Kate, > > thank you for taking your time. > > I am not wondering why people are sharing personal stories on a LIST. > That, of course, is the purpose of a list like this here. That's why I > read the messages. > > The point is that there is a difference between sharing personal details > with a certain number of people and sharing it with everyone who is on > the web and can handle Google search. > > And there is a difference between sharing a personal story with some > people and letting anyone know something about you. > > I love all this "Web 2.0" stuff. I am on Facebook, I have a MySpace page > at http://www.myspace.com/kellerfrau and I have a blog about something > special at http://hillforceone.blogspot.com. (Thank you, Google, for > indexing this and show this message in your search results). The > difference between all these things and being a member of the list here > is that with a MySpace page I control what I display and I intentionally > want anyone in the world to know. With the list, I only want to > communicate with list members and do NOT want any internet user on this > planet to know. > > Joni Mitchell is a performer and as such her work is accessible online. > I do object to the idea that "much of her personal life is archived and > accessible". Her artistic work may be, but for sure not her personal life. > > This mailing list's archive does not have to be freely accessible on the > internet and be searched by Google. It could as well be stored and being > accessed by members only and just not show up in Google search results. > > And I still cannot see the benefit from everything being displayed by > Google. > > moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:20:46 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: jonifest blues Jeff wrote: But the fest was more than the sum of its parts, more than the music even. I realized last night after writing only about the music that we're talking about a different experience. I had not felt it during the french fest as i was too busy with details. But this time it felt like what i have read about the jewish chabath: the feeling of being away from all daily and wordly concerns and being immersed in more spiritual (and of course musical) concerns. In fact, i am experiencing for the 1st time the post fest blues which has been written about in previous years. So last night i listened to Christina & Henning cds and also Bob's Sweet Sixteen. I'm sure rave reviews must have been written before by Bob and others when they came out. My 2 cents are that what we have here are known and unreleased Joni songs performed in the Joni spirit but with contemporary arrangements. Bottom line is: it's like discovering an unreleased album in the vaults, with great songs. A must for Joni fans IMHO More info at www.bigyellowtaxi.dk Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:10:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: River Ah, River, a song that is close to my heart. It was one of the first few songs I really connected with that so pulled me into my Joni journey as I like to call it. Anyhow, when I first got into Joni (a couple years back now before Xmas) I remember seeing "River" on all sorts of Christmas lists. At first it angered me so! I realized the song is NOT a Christmas song and anyone who would take such a moving, intense song like "River" and associate it with the wonderful, happy time of Christmas really wasn't paying attention to the words. Sure it mentions Christmas and brings up images of the cold and decorations and such but when you get down to it, that is really the background of the song. It is not the entire picture! It is not particularly a carol, eh? Anyhow, I don't get angered by that anymore. The more recognition Joni gets for her music, the better. Put it on every Christmas list and Christmas cd. Lord knows it is a million times better than any actual happy, dappy Christmas song. In my honest opinion, the minute a song is actually about Christmas, it becomes sort of lame. I love that Joni could evoke Christmas related images in such a beautiful way without making her song cheesy.... - -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:25:17 +0200 From: Moni Kellermann Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns Wie Jerry Notaro so vortrefflich formulierte: > Did you find the cookbook using Google? No. > Is that what you are saying? No. That is not what I was trying to say. > I was unaware it was posted anywhere and that it can be freely > downloaded. If that is true, please let us know so I don't need to > personally send it out one by one which is what I have been doing for > all these years. If it isn't, then your comparison doesn't fly. > > Jerry I was not aware that my words were related to the cookbook issue at all other than I replied to a message thread that has it in the subject line. moni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:22:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Strathmore Joni Tribute Me! Me! Me! (he said jumping about)... Hi Ronnie, thanks for the post and congratulations on the tremendous show. Of my many obsessions, Joni covers are right there on the tippy top of the heap. (I also manage the JoniUndercover database on the site). I have quite a collection of audio and video and would love to add this show to it. Please keep us posted. Bob NP: Patti Smith, "Waiting Underground" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 I made it back LATE last night after 24 straight hours of travel, I have a long weekend ahead and LOTS of reporting to do, so stay tuned for that. First I have to go to the airport and file a claim for my bag which didn't make it from Chicago... In the meantime, here is a lovely picture of me and my Dutch brother John van Tiel who showed me an amazing time in the land of the dykes - more (much more) about that & Jonifest later today. Here we are in Amsterdam, having just finished a couple beverages and a walking tour of Amsterdam, waiting on a railcar: https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01FT0NjR3M5bEEwTVE9PQ Bob, the beamingly happy guy in the orange shirt who is not afraid of keeping his privacy because putting my heart out to you all has paid back more than I ever could have imagined. (That being said I do respect the wishes of those who want to retain their privacy). NP: Iris Koch, "Marcie" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 22:35:40 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Covers, Volume #103 & More Covers hi bob wrote > Ron Greer (missing in action) missing, but not totally out of action :-) came across this covers site (which i guess bob's already familiar with) if you scroll down you'll find some joni covers - already in the database & around halfway down theres a write up on joni, specifically on covers of river, and there are links two joni duets - "you can close your eyes" with james taylor, & "girl from the north county" with johnny cash. (video also on youtube) ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 07:03:07 -0700 From: Russell Bowden Subject: since you brought it up again Gang, Privacy between hundreds of people??? Kate, Michael F. and Jerry N..... I appreciate your thoughtful and level-headed concerns (I'm always open to constructive criticism) and thank you for it. So, it's off ebay, however, I will be receiving one of the books and I swear to whomever that I won't post it on the net or share info outside the MANY people who divulge personal concerns on a nearly daily basis to the WORLD WIDE internet. Besides, I'm in it and I like to cook. Love, Russ Mischief Managed _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yaho o_082008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:01:06 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 GREAT pic Bob, thanks for sending it. Can't wait to hear all about Amsterdam! Tushie >>> Bob Muller 8/29/2008 8:37 AM >>> I made it back LATE last night after 24 straight hours of travel, I have a long weekend ahead and LOTS of reporting to do, so stay tuned for that. First I have to go to the airport and file a claim for my bag which didn't make it from Chicago... In the meantime, here is a lovely picture of me and my Dutch brother John van Tiel who showed me an amazing time in the land of the dykes - more (much more) about that & Jonifest later today. Here we are in Amsterdam, having just finished a couple beverages and a walking tour of Amsterdam, waiting on a railcar: https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01FT0NjR3M5bEEwTVE9PQ Bob, the beamingly happy guy in the orange shirt who is not afraid of keeping his privacy because putting my heart out to you all has paid back more than I ever could have imagined. (That being said I do respect the wishes of those who want to retain their privacy). NP: Iris Koch, "Marcie" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:28:32 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Jonifest 2008 & Dutchfest 2008 I know this guy. He gave me a wonderful tour of Amsterdam and an amazing lunch and of course such great company. Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Aug 29, 2008, at 8:37 AM, Bob Muller wrote: I made it back LATE last night after 24 straight hours of travel, I have a long weekend ahead and LOTS of reporting to do, so stay tuned for that. First I have to go to the airport and file a claim for my bag which didn't make it from Chicago... In the meantime, here is a lovely picture of me and my Dutch brother John van Tiel who showed me an amazing time in the land of the dykes - more (much more) about that & Jonifest later today. Here we are in Amsterdam, having just finished a couple beverages and a walking tour of Amsterdam, waiting on a railcar: https://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01FT0NjR3M5bEEwTVE9PQ Bob, the beamingly happy guy in the orange shirt who is not afraid of keeping his privacy because putting my heart out to you all has paid back more than I ever could have imagined. (That being said I do respect the wishes of those who want to retain their privacy). NP: Iris Koch, "Marcie" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:43:49 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: jonifest Hi all, Another Jonifest over. When's the next one? I had the fortune of heading to Cambridge with Chris following the fest. This way, I didn't have to deal with them auld post fest blues alone. Yesterday we had a lovely day at Anglesey Abbey in Cambridge. Today, back to work. Oh man the tiredness!! Speaking of post-fest blues, that part actually really sucks. I was overcome by these shifting states of emotion on Monday that i found difficult to name. Ooohhhh. I've really enjoyed reading the reports sent in, so thanks to you all for that. I do not think i can match them. There are so many wonderful memories that i don't know where to start. this email is really just a reflection of whatever comes to mind. Performances of Dry Cleaner, Hejira, River, Blue, Dreamland, Dog Eat Dog, Talk to Me, Carey, Borderline, Black Crow (oh this was soooo much fun!!), All I Want, Born to take the highway, Dr. Junk, Yvette In English.... and these are just some of the Joni songs that knocked me socks off. Yis've heard about the beatles songs and so much more already. The venue was beautiful. I'll have photos up in a day or so, so you can see the beauty of this place for yourself. Holycombe is the perfect fest venue. It is pretty and intimate, and is in walking distance (5? 10 mins) to the town of whichford, with its norman church (st. michael's), beautiful houses, a cute pub selling the local beer druid's fluid- all in typical cotswold style. When Lucy said she had found the perfect venue she was not lying. HOlycombe used to be a scarap yard, a local eyesore. Now, it has two cottages and a studio, a pond (with ducks and all), an orchard, a stone cricle, and a moat, and plenty of open space. I thought the buildings were cute, each bedroom was unique, and the angel room, which became our performance space, was a perfect size for our group. It was wonderful meeting up with all of those that i've met before and putting faces to names and, in some cases, meeting people i did not know from the list. Hanging out with Chris, Mike, Lucy, Bob, Patrick - - you guys make me laugh. this is no easy task given that i'm a grumpy fecker;-) One thing we tend not to mention too often about joni fans is the filthy senses of humour they have;-) Getting to meet Jeff was an immense pleasure. I wish we'd chatted more. When the recordings of fest emerge i think everyone on the list should listen to this man's music. I'd love to hear recordings. I know i must have said that to you a whole lot (not that i was counting but it was about 1,312 times i'd say) over the weekend Jeff, but i really meant it. The Vow was stunningly beautiful, and i think it's a song i'd like to sing at some point to someone special. The superman song struck a chord and the song the Marine, well, i would like to say how priveleged i felt listening to you sit with Dave and sing it early on monday. The great paragraph: Putting faces to Bene and Oddmund was great, Oddmund's energy and Bene's calm conversation - these are some very cool people; getting to know Anita a little more was great - thanks for that conversation, you know the one; making John's acquaintance and laughing about - well, maybe i should not say here, lol, but i'm sure you know what i'm talking about if i say "dirty buggers, you don't have to pay for that" - was great. John there are websites; Lieve, a great and gentle wit as ever who gave a great speech to thank Lucy and John; Donna - i'm looking forward to reading the book, it was great to sit with you and swap accents; Adriano and Liccia (sorry for the spelling) - you two stunned me with your performances, i know we did not get to speak very much but seeing you guys perform *nearly* made me want to get up and sing! and the rose, well, it's great; Henning, king of the beatles sing a long, it was great to hear you perform; Steph you had such a calm presence - and i loved your great 80s haircut in the pictures;-) Laurent, we did not chat a huge amount either - great song choices. Delene i enjoyed your musical contributions - when you played the Dulcimer i thought you were going to take flight; Barry Cahill - Cahill - Cahill (try it the irish way;-) your music added a new layer to the rich musical experience over the weekend. Cristina singing the gift of the magi - i will be first in line to hear this one when it emerges from the recordings, that was spectacular. You have a wonderful voice. I have been listening to your albums, you and Henning really rock. I was playing the Treasures of Joni Mitchell cd at home this morning and my housemate was loving it. Les Ross treated us to a short song session that made hairs stand on end, not to mention providing many laughs. . Robin, you impressed us all. Your voice, your presence, your ability to stay up so late!! I'm happy to have met you. And Dave. Mr Music Man himself. Thanks for the fun guys. I could not possibly mention everything that made an impression across the weekend but i hope i've managed to give a flavour of how it was for me. The chatter, the singing, the comfort and the peace of the weekend will stay with me. Now, gotta go and pick up some ingredients. Talk to yis later, GARRET NP - just hearing the sounds of the computer room around. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:46:55 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: jonifest Oh - and how could i forget to mention the fun of Robin's birthday, Lucy and John posing when they were given gifts from the gang, and the late late last night! Oh that was fun. Lots of beautiful, if drunken, singing (that bottle of vodka was a good idea damnit;-) And then the induction dance. I have never laughed so hard. Tears were falling from my chin!! Great stuff. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:46:26 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: cookbook and privacy concerns I don't object to what Moni, Marian & Bene are asking. I was trying to make an entirely different point in case this is not possible. Which is to encourage people to share their thoughts on this list who say they are unwilling if this is a public list, by pointing out the similarities between Joni's public openness & that of this list. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:32:08 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns Writing what I feel now fixes it in your mind even though tomorrow I've already moved on I am not what I was yesterday but people remember me especially if I hurt them said something wrong I do not want to be remembered by the words I write, the things I say I am growing and changing every day I am not what I said or wrote before I am not the mistakes I made I am what I learned thereby and what I am now today which if I wrote it down would be fixed in your mind even though tomorrow I will have moved on - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: RE: cookbook and privacy concerns >I don't object to what Moni, Marian & Bene are asking. I was trying to >make > an entirely different point in case this is not possible. Which is to > encourage people to share their thoughts on this list who say they are > unwilling if this is a public list, by pointing out the similarities > between > Joni's public openness & that of this list. Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:05:33 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Joni's lyrics and psychological aspects In a certain branch of psychology, the thinking is that people have different ways of being in the world. Some people relate to the world in a primarily visual way, for others their sense of hearing is predominant, for others the sense of touch is most important. I am wondering if we can deduce anything about Joni from the lyrics of her songs. For example, the song For The Roses seems to me to be very auditory - I heard it in the wind last night it sounded like applause but also tactile and visual - chilly now, end of summer, no more shiny hot nights again auditory, but also visual: it's just the arbutus rustling and the bumping of the logs then again visual: and the moon swept down black water\ like an empty spotlight Does anyone have any thoughts about describing the lyrics of Joni's songs in this way? Are their other aspects (e.g., sense of taste) that appear in her lyrics? Marian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:37:10 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: RE: Privacy concerns Many people agreed: > So I support your request to make the list unavailable > to google searches. The JMDL has been hosted (for free) since April of 1998 by Jeff Wasilko and the kind people at Smoe. He/they host many lists (http://smoe.org/lists) and have automated the entire server process which includes an on-line archive (JMDL here: http://smoe.org/lists/joni). There are ways a webmaster can tell search engines not to index a certain page/folder, but many engines ignore those requests anyway. I've asked Jeff in the past to take the archives off-line, but it requires (de)programming on his part and... well, he's busy and really doesn't have an incentive to do so. The (almost) complete JMDL archives are available and searchable at JMDL.com but only to those who are logged in. The average web surfer wouldn't know of their existence as they are not mentioned anywhere. To my knowledge, Google has not indexed the archives there. Ultimately, I feel that if one joins an internet list one has to expect that that list is going to leak into search engines at some point. Comes with the territory. Trying to remove any trace of it from searches would be like trying to stop Joni from smoking. In other words, I'm not sure the request can be fulfilled. Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:29:01 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns What a lovely poem!! It reminds me of what Byron Katie is trying to say (in part) in "The Work" laid out in "Loving What Is". Just because we are feeling one way one moment, and the answer would be a truthful "yes', and not the same way later, to which we would respond "no", does not make "our truth" at this moment in time any different. We all experience changing states of emotion or needs - in Spanish they even create two separate verb forms for the English "to be" to differentiate between more immutable states and those subject to change. Of course, hopefully most of us change our minds with wisdom, given some time to think (about consequence). That being said, I tried to point out that Moni's original post - which nobody initially responded to - was well-stated, in the sense that there was a frenzy of people writing about their privacy being violated because of recipes and some personal information. That was and is their prerogative. The human need for inviolacy is one of our foremost psychological needs. However, the message remains in draft form as the genesis of the concern was the cookbook itself which turned out to be very a very sensitive matter for many listers. And as Kate pointed out,and as evidenced in recent posts, one of the things that make Joni our favorite songwriter/singer is her transparency and honesty. So there is some incongruousness it seems to me, as Moni points out that much more personal things than contained in this cookbook are searchable by virture of the JMDL archives being searchable on the website, allowing for search engines such as Google to permit anyone on the planet with access to a computer to retrieve them. Like her, I too feel that I self-censure perhaps too much, because every single thing any one says is forever searchable. And as Naomi Wolf points out, this is a symptom of a closing society, although it is happening in a timeframe that the human psyche can't really appreciate just how grave these symptoms are (Oh, well the government is implementing all of these "security" measures to protect me, all the while eroding your very own privacy and freedom). I don't know of a means to make the JMDL list searchable only to subscribers once the link is removed from the website, I don't really think it needs to be myself. A decent email site such as GMail will organize and archive emails you wish to keep easily, and for lord's sake...it's a DISCUSSION list...with changing opinions, emotions, and items not even related to Joni (hopefully with the NJC header which I forgot to include in a recent posting which bordered on a rant and still feel a sense of shame about that). What is so important about it that it needs to be archived anyways? Yes, as the poem reflects, we are like rivers and not the exact same person we always were (hopefully), but our truth is as honest and as meaningful as it ever was, given our journeys and experiences. However, these are messages available to anyone containing personal data and no doubt "some value judgments in a self-important voice" many of us are not particularly proud of, that I believe should only be easily retrievable by JMDL subscribers. - -- - -Mark in Florida On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Marian Russell wrote: > Writing what I feel now > fixes it in your mind > even though > tomorrow I've already moved on ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:06:11 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Privacy concerns Les wrote: In other words, I'm not sure the request can be fulfilled. Les - -- No problem. If I wrote it, I have no problem with someone reading it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:35:46 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: River Hi Monika, I just re-read you post. I KNEW you would chime in !! :-) As from your posts you have indicated what a significant song "River" has always been to you, as well as a few other posters. Like you I used to view all the covers of "River" being included on more and more Christmas albums as simply crass-commercialization that was not an appropriate use of the song. Now, I also feel, well the more exposure that Joni gets, the better. This post also makes me think of the trio of CD's Joni was to release, two of which she did, but ultimately not the third which she had originally mentioned would be composed of Christmas songs. Just as many people at the time thought "My Best To You" - it actually comes the closest of all her songs to being like a Christmas song of sorts IMHO - off of TTT was out of place and sort of not in keeping with Joni's style (it was a cover) ... however, if you look at in the context that TTT was her final attempt to say farewell to the recording industry, it makes sense as a closing song...being essentially the closing song on TTT, (Tiger Bones - TTT stripped of the vocals, technically is) leaving behind any negative emotions and wishing everyone well - even if the recording business in it's dog eat dog pursuit of profits acted to accelerate America's cultural glorification of the Culture of the Slums with ever more one hit wonders. I just can't envision Joni getting any closer to Christmas songs than "River" or lyrics such as "Christmas is sparkling, out on Carol's lawn" from Chinese Cafe (I've always thought Carol was a name she made up for the song, with the double entendre of "Christmas Carol", or the more Wintry (but still not a Christmas song) Facelift. The time soon following her reunion with her family of her daughter and subsequently two grandchildren (TTT) would have been the time for such a Christmas collection, and that was when she spoke of the trio, BSN, Travelogue, and the never-recorded 3rd work. Perhaps the period after Travelogue corresponded to the period in which she had forgotten what it was that she ever liked about music...Anyways as she has graciously made her foray back into music foremost to try to call attention to the Earth being at "Red Alert", I just don't see a Christmas offering (of other's compositions) in the near future and I must say I really don't want to see "A Joni Mitchell Christmas" joining what seems to be almost a perfunctory tradition of almost every singer. - -- - -Mark in FloridaOn Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz < motitan75@yahoo.com> wrote in part: > Ah, River, a song that is close to my heart. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:00:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Jonifest Report: Best.Fest.Ever Part 1 Until the next one, that is... First of all, I humbly bow before my queen - Lucy, this was truly a blessed, incredible event. You had the vision to foresee how perfect a spot Holycombe would be, if only you would have had the vision to have it catered - ha! This was my first time to England, so as is my nature I had a great sense of trepidation about the unknowns, but where there's a fest there's a way! My trip across the pond landed me at Heathrow at 6AM London time - this was somewhat intentional as I wanted to make sure I had enough time to fumble around and get there in plenty of time. And man, that Heathrow is NOT for the squeamish...sometimes you get signs, sometimes you can conceive of the layout, and other times you have to guess, screw up, and get back on the right track. At least they speak the same language as me. Anyway, I had NO idea how I was going to get to Holycombe from Heathrow, and lots of people had sent me coach schedules, train schedules, so that helped to really confuse me but at least left me with the confidence to know that it could be done. Luckily I ended up at a National Express counter and got a coach ticket to Warwick (the second W is silent y'all) Parkway, even though the ticket agent didn't seem to have any idea of where I was going. As fate would have it, I ended up on the right bus and the driver successfully navigated the entire trip on the WRONG side of the freeway - lucky for him all of the Brits have gotten together and mutually agreed to drive on the wrong side of the road, so this sort of works but like France some of the roads are so narrow that there's only ONE side anyway. So now I'm at Warwick Parkway and I go inside the station to ask the agent about getting to Whichford, or Warwickshire, or Shipston-On-Stour, assuming that this was like asking someone about going to Chicago, or Atlanta, or even Swindon, but no, he said he couldn't help me with any train tickets and suggested I take a cab. There were a couple of vehicles outside that LOOKED like cabs, so I just toted my luggage outside and flashed my "I'm a lost American with a walletful of pounds - please take advantage of me" look, and that did the trick - I knew the driver was legit because like all good NYC cabbies he was wearing a turban. I showed him the address I was heading and like every other person in England, he had NO IDEA where it was, but his Tom Tom would know, and lo & behold it did. I do have to say that I was still having major freakout seeing the cars coming at us on the other side of the road, and even more of a freakout when the driver deposited me at the doorstep of Holycombe and told me how much I owed him...HOLY COW (although I didn't say that because after all he was an Indian with a turban and all). And I thought my son's college education was expensive! But I was relieved to be there, where I needed to be - and it was still only 10AM! At this point I had been travelling for about 24 hours and was a bit pooped to say the least. Since there was nobody else around (Lucy was coming around 2 and the festing was commencing around 5), I strolled around a bit and found a wooden bench that allowed me to take a little nap, except for getting my first taste of English weather in that it was sunny and hot, then windy & chilly, then even a bit rainy for 10 minutes, and then repeat that cycle for 4-5 hours as I waited for other signs of life. After a while, the nice lady who had been housesitting for the family that owns the house came down and told me that the Lodge was open if I wanted to go in and relax in there...D'oh! And long about then (mid-afternoon), Dave Blackburn with his wife Robin and their friends Barry (aka Cahill) and Delene showed up, and then the fest really got started for me. We took a quick road-trip to a nearby town so that I could replenish my wallet with more pounds and they could get some postcards and other such things. By the time we got back, there was Lucy and John, Garret, Patrick, Mike - familiar faces and voices that told me that Jonifest 2008 was underway. More to follow - but not to worry, I won't stay in this detail mode throughout. Bob NP: Death Cab For Cutie, "Coney Island" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:56:07 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Jonifest 2008 - a tipsy recollection... Good lord, where on earth do I start with this? I really can't add much that hasn't already been said, and I'm not going to try. This is what's brewing in my mind at the moment, however. I'm sitting here fairly consumed by the post-fest blues, and even beer and wine has failed to shift the somewhat f**ked up feeling that has been following me around since Wednesday. Here goes with a scattergun trip through my recollections:- - ------------- The run up... - ------------- Fest, for me, started a few days before the main event, as I'd taken two weeks off work in total. Among other things, this was in recognition of the fact that I had to build and test the entire PA & recording setup before breaking it down and rebuilding it at Holycombe. Getting it all into the car was also a fun 3D sliding block puzzle. On Thursday, I collected Garret from the airport and we made our way towards Holycombe via a rather spiffing pub nearby, where we had a bloody nice lunch (except for the bastard wasps - more of which later). We arrived at 'fest thinking we were the first there, but Muller had beaten us to the punch - by some hours. 'twas not long before Dave, Robin, Delene and Barry also turned up, followed only slightly later by Lucy & John. I should mention that they'd packed an entire supermarket into their car for our benefit... Most other people drifted in throughout the remainder of the afternoon, and old friends were greeted like the last meeting was yesterday, new friends... well, the same really. - ------- Fest... - ------- That's the (brief) run up to fest. Then, in my mind, there's this blur of new acquaintances, old friends, great food, great music, great conversation, wasps!, lots of laughs, and probably no little amount of navel gazing. Here goes with some of the standout musical stuff:- - ---- Jeff Hankins, come on down. Simply great stuff, and that dinnertable conversation still stands. The songs put me in mind of the west- country honesty and grit of Show of Hands. Especially the one about the Marine that cracked open my emotions on Saturday. Want more. Henning and Christina: how the hell had I forgotten what a great noise you two make together? I won't forget this time. Great. Thanks for the chance to play on some of it. The Californians: had spoken to Dave Blackburn once or twice off list, but it was a pleasure to finally meet him and the could-be-fleetwood- mac-if-only-they'd-argue-about-something group of four of which he was a part. Between them I think they could probably cover 75% of modern music... Incidentally, Robin was inducted into the inner circle, but Barry needs to sharpen up the English accent and learn some Jethro Tull flute parts before he'll be granted admission. Les Ross - once again - reduced the room to utter silence with that thing he does. There were lots of other wonderful musical moments too, but my recall isn't clear enough to add anything that hasn't already been said. The other great nonmusical things that stick with me include:- - ---- The location. Whichford is a bloody lovely little village wedged into the Cotswolds region of England. Everything, pretty much, is built of this lovely irregular sandy coloured stone, the upshot of which is that it's hard to find anything ugly lying around. I'm so used to Jonifest being abroad, that I had to pinch myself repeatedly to remind myself that I was less than two hours from my home. The house. Holycombe is pretty much a perfect space for the size of group we were, and could easily handle more people if some were happy to camp. God knows, there's enough of that anyway ;) The food. Lucy volunteered ages ago to arrange this 'fest. John didn't and, to everyone's benefit, embraced the whole idea, came along and helped out to an incredible degree. A couple of downsides... - ---- Feckin' wasps. "Get off my feckin' breakfast you pointless feckin' waste of wings, or I'll, oshit!, feck off, arrrgh!" . That was breakfast for me most mornings. Did I mention I don't like wasps? Servitude. A few people got treated a little bit like staff on a couple of occasions. I'll say only this: THIS MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN. EVER. REALLY. - ----------- Thankyou... - ----------- Lucy & John: clearly, stars of the show. While many others helped with cooking/serving/clearing/cleaning, these two shouldered the lion's share of the burden. What's more, it was all edible too. (I jest: the usual saying after a hearty meal at Lucy's is "Well, that was crap, wish I'd got a takeaway..." while, simultaneously, eyeing up the leftovers...) John's low-calorie Balaclava also rocked ;) As well as the food & drink side of things, it shouldn't be forgotten that Lucy & John handled all the logistics of making this happen - no small task. All Lucy/John's assistants should take a bow now too. Dave gets a glass raised in his direction for giving me the evening off from driving the desk on Sunday, as well as general help getting it all up and running in the first place. Les Ross played guitar while I sang. Cheers, chap. He also brought a printer, which enabled us to get printed lyrics for the odd song or two. Garret managed to sneak some Vodka in on Sunday evening. Worked for me ;) Laurent had some Joni/Herbie concert DVDs to share out with us all - thanks for taking the time to burn all of those! I'm sure I've forgotten some more 'thankyous', but try as I might.... etc.... - ------------ Post fest... - ------------ So, that all lasted for a few days, and suddenly it was Monday morning, time to wake up, sober up, tidy up, and pack the cars again. Lucy, John, Garret and myself span Monday out as long as we possibly could before leaving. As much, I think, to make the packing bearably easy as to delay departure and the inevitable and unwelcome return to real life. Tuesday and Wednesday were strange days: Garret was still around, so I think we were both enjoying time spent catching up after three years (including the already-mentioned trip to Anglesey Abbey). However, the post-fest blues were in full force, so it was all a bit of a see- saw. Music, films and vodka helped... Work starts again tomorrow (yes, on Saturday), and I can't really pretend I'm not in a bit of a dark space right now. I'll bounce back, but hell's teeth, 'fest really does make real life seem dull, repetitive, pointless, shallow and all sorts of other things, none positive. Which is why I can't recommend it highly enough, obviously ;) So - who's up for a UK/ROI mini-fest, sometime in the next three months? Applications should be scribbled on the liner notes from Bob's latest sweet 16 CD, and sent to.... - --Chris PS. Hatstand.org photo gallery - e-mail me directly for the username and password to upload your pictures to the Jonifest area. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 08:03:29 +0700 From: do9eatdo9@yahoo.com Subject: Re: privacy I write this and that. Personal things included. The fact is, i didn't know if my posts are googleable untill i read Moni's post. Oops! So, i googled rian+afriadi+joni (and without joni), and i found only 2 posts that i wrote : 1about Joni (on Blender magazine), and the other one is last year's controversial post about eating dog. Out of hundreds posts i posted, i don't know why only 2 appeared. Anyway, if there is a vote about this matter, i'd vote for ungoogleable or unyahooable. I believe that people who send their personal info to the list don't intend to make their post readable by people outside the list. This is a matter of trust. Rian PS: This September will be my 1st anniversary @ JMDL. NP: Carey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 22:26:21 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: privacy Rian, try searching with the terms rian + afriadi + jmdl and clicking on the 2nd entry "more results from jmdl.com" and you will retrieve 242 of your entries (likely all of them). Or you can search with the terms rian + afriadi + smoe and clicking on the 2nd entry "more results from smoe.org" and 242 of your past entries are viewable by that portion of the 6.6 billion people or so with access to a computer. Other search strings will yield similar results. In addition, you don't have to "signed on" to anything. I agree with what you say as well and once again, I also don't think that just because we subscribe to or post emails to a mailing list, that it should be so easily searchable and available for the entire world to view. We are not posting comments to diaries written to a website such as Daily Kos, or "anonymous" responses to various website articles, etc...This is entirely different and people such as myself and no doubt others are reluctant to contribute and self-censure heavily, or often forgo posting altogether because of what seems likely could be a simple task such as modifying HTML code. - -- - -Mark in Florida On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 9:03 PM, wrote in part: > I write this and that. Personal things included. The fact is, i didn't know > if my posts are googleable untill i read Moni's post. Oops! > > So, i googled rian+afriadi+joni (and without joni), and i found only 2 > posts that i wrote : 1about Joni (on Blender magazine), and the other one is > last year's controversial post about eating dog. Out of hundreds posts i > posted, i don't know why only 2 appeared. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:11:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: cookbook and privacy concerns Very well put, Marian. Once something is in writing, whether it's the kind done on paper or the kind sent electronically through the ether, it seems to take on an air of permanency and authority and the idea of a person's changing their mind seems to be lost, which is sometimes a blessing but more often a curse. - --- On Fri, 8/29/08, Marian Russell wrote: > > Writing what I feel now > fixes it in your mind > even though > tomorrow I've already moved on > > I am not what I was yesterday > but people remember me > especially if I hurt them > said something wrong > > I do not want to be remembered by > the words I write, the things I say > I am growing and changing > every day > > I am not what I said or wrote before > I am not the mistakes I made > I am what I learned thereby > and what I am now today > > which if I wrote it down > would be fixed in your mind > even though tomorrow > I will have moved on __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:29:28 +0700 From: do9eatdo9@yahoo.com Subject: RE: Jonifest Report: Best.Fest.Ever Part 1 - -original message- As fate would have it, I ended up on the right bus and the driver successfully navigated the entire trip on the WRONG side of the freeway - lucky for him all of the Brits have gotten together and mutually agreed to drive on the wrong side of the road, >> No, Bob. No! It was the RIGHT side of the road! (i mean, the LEFT side of the road is the RIGHT one). It's the Americans who do it wrong. :-p Rian who is like the Brits, drives on left side of the road because he knows that left side is the right side to drive. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:12:07 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: If you are ever in a coma, and my talking as it rambled.....privacy, etc. Hi Loves! I have been incredibly busy with the start of the new academic year (everybody calling me up for favors, everybody's future to decide), and then I lost my internet connection for a few days when Patti's faucet needed a plumber for her new bathroom (I'd like all you pretty girls and boys to come and check out your sex appeal there!) and the electrician came and tripped the circuit breaker and loose wires were lashing out at me, but now I'm back in business (I do my best and I do good business, there's a lot people asking for my time...) NPIMH: Everybody's working for the weekend! Muller, loved the picture! And I want you to know that the pictures of your Periwinkle Cottage helped to spark (court and spark!) my selection of colors for the new bathroom. I loved the buttery lemon towels in that bathroom. Sweet inspiration! There are so many wonderful posts to reply to....I don't know where to begin! I'm delighting in them all. If you can fill the journey Of a minute With sixty seconds worth of wonder and delight Then The Earth is yours And Everything that's in it But more than that I know You'll be alright You'll be alright. You're ALL alright! (That 70's Show theme song npimh) All the Fest reports....keep 'em coming! And I'm glad Rosie knows her home when she sees it again...and Monika, too, despite coming home to troubles, and of course I was watching the DNC with rapt attention all week and whooping it up and clapping (applause, applause! Whoabama! Hi Vince and Richard!) and scaring my dog again! (Hi Em!) And thinking of Kate Bennet because the first time I heard Barack was in a blue hotel room with the SB phonebook in my hands, looking up your phone number and wanting to call you......And WTF is McSame thinking with this VP choice? Joni women should be outraged. (Just my opinion.) And I never did get to share my Lakota friend's dissertation defense, that had so many Joni moments (they all laughed at Edison and also Einstein), which made me think of our newly-doctored Joseph Palis (Hi Honey!). And the first time I posted to the list (great thread, Rev. Vince!)....I also want to say something about the privacy thing (Guten Tag, Moni!). I am being cyber-stalked, so I have to be careful. I do remember that when I was working for Ned Lamont, I was very aware that what I wrote could be googled. As Bonnie and Sippie cautioned: "Woman, be wise, keep your mouth shut. Don't advertise your man", so whenever I wrote about that experience, I called him Jed Dupont, and his rival Joe Creeperman. (He is still a creep but don't get me going on THAT!). I did not want to hurt Ned's chances in any way. Alors..... So, I somewhat shyly re-enter the Joni universe over RR's post. (Baby, you can drive my car.) This is so cool! The coma revival thing. I'm thinking we might want to put this in our "living wills". No extraordinary life support measures. No feeding tubes, no this or that. Play me some Joni, and if I don't respond, then you will know that I am truly brain dead. Love to ALL, hoping the Jonidiomatic logic that goes on in my head was not too hard to follow, and wishing you all a pleasant dreamland and un tres bon long weekend, Patti P., who was tethered to a ringing telephone three nights ago with our Smurfadelica, whom I love like no other P.S. Too tired to proof-read....will you take me as I am? Will you? xoxox Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:43:35 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Sam Carter lost consciousness after contracting severe anaemia but was brought back to life when "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" was blared into his ears. The anthem was the first single the retired baker from Stoke in Staffordshire ever bought, released in 1965 when he was just 17. Despite only being given a 30 per cent chance of survival, he woke from his coma after his wife Eva, 65, took the doctor's advice and played him his favourite tunes through a set of earphones. After three days of listening to the local Stoke station Signal 2, his eyes opened as soon as he heard the sound of Mick Jagger's vocals and Keith Richards' guitar riff. Sam said: "I can't remember much from being in a coma, but I do remember that when that song came on it took me right back to when I was a youngster. "I could remember how excited I was to get it down at the record shop. "I suddenly had a burst of energy and knew I had a lot more life left in me and that's when I woke up - to the sound of the first song I ever bought." Same, who has three children and six grandchildren, added: "I would love to thank Mick and the rest of the Stones personally - I feel they really did help wake me from my coma." Wife Eva said she had switched on the radio at Stoke's City General Hospital in a last-ditch attempt to bring him back a fortnight ago, after growing increasingly frustrated with his lack of progress. She said: "I didn't really think it would work. "I couldn't believe it when he started opening his eyes and looked at me. It was like we had been given another chance." "If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there'd be peace." -- John Lennon http://www.imaginepeace.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Talk to your Yahoo! Friends via Windows Live Messenger. Find out how. http://www.windowslive.com/explore/messenger?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_messenger_yahoo_082008 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #154 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe