From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #148 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, August 25 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 148 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! [Merk54@aol.com] Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! [Jerry Notaro ] Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! [Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! It needs to be pulled. Whomever it is they don't have permission to sell it. Jerry > I don't know if anyone else spotted this, but there is a JMDL cookbook for > sale on Ebay. High bid so far - 25.12. I don't think the seller is one of > us. > > Jack > > > > **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel > deal here. > (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:49:24 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Kay's playing in NYC on Wed & Thu night (8/27 & 8/28) SJC Hey Everyone, I've been waaaay incommunicado, and of course my first delurking in a long while falls under the shameless self-promotion category. Sigh. I'm a musician, I gotta do it. Firstly, for the NYC peeps on the list, I wanted to let you know that I'll be playing at Gizzi's Coffeehouse in the West Village this Wednesday, at 8:00 pm. I'll be playing one set, and it's sure to include a Joni cover. Because I just can't help myself. Also, my friend Sara Holtzschue ( www.sarasong.com) will be joining me on a couple of songs -- we've been performing "Polly Come Home" and "Please Read The Letter" from the Robert Plant/Allison Krause record, and we'll be reprising our duo antics on Wednesday. Then on Thursday night I'll be playing at an Obama/Biden fundraiser in Brooklyn, at a cafe called Solomon's Porch. The event starts at 8:00 pm and goes on until whenever; there'll be lots of great musicians playing, including members of a musician's collective called The Soul Folk Experience (www.myspace.com/thesoulfolkexperience) that I've been a part of since this past spring. Here are the details: Wed 8/27 @ 8:00 pm Kay Ashley @ Gizzi's Coffee 16 W 8th St New York, NY 10011 (212) 260-9700 Around the corner from the West 4th Street subway stop www.gizzisny.com NO COVER Thu 8/28 @ 8:00 pm Kay Ashley @ Solomon's Porch with the SOUL FOLK EXPERIENCE OBAMA/BIDEN FUNDRAISER 307 Stuyvesant Avenue (corner of Halsey) Brooklyn, NY 11233 (718) 919-8001 www.solomonsporchcafe.com Secondly, I wanted to let you all know that my CD "Heliotrope" is being mastered as I write, and I expect to have the CDs in hand by mid-September. The CD will be available on CD Baby, Amazon, and iTunes (by the end of September, if all goes well). I'm really excited about this--it took me A LONG TIME, but I finally have a record that I'm proud of, and I can't wait for youse guys to hear it. For you Steely Dan fans out there, you may be interested to know that their trumpet player/sometime arranger Michael Leonhart (www.michaelleonhart.com) co-produced the CD. Hey, any bit of info I can give you to convince you that it doesn't suck, right? ;-D Check out www.myspace.com/kayashley for a preview... And Lastly, I just found out that I received 4 "Honorable Mentions" in the Billboard World Songwriting Contest. Not as exciting as being a finalist, but it's still nice to learn that I was just one step down from that. My song "Beautiful" was recognized in both the Pop and Folk categories, "Holy Man" was recognized in the World category, and "The Wind Is Gonna Blow You Down" was recognized in the Rock category. That's it for now! I'll let ya'll know when "Heliotrope" is available. Happy Monday! Kay np: "Broken" by Jenny Goodspeed ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ KAY ASHLEY ~ Singer-Songwriter http://www.kayashley.com http://www.myspace.com/kayashley http://www.sonicbids.com/kayashley "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." ~Dr. Seuss ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:08:49 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It was never meant to be made available to the public. How can it be pulled??? Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: ; "Joni List" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > It needs to be pulled. Whomever it is they don't have permission to sell > it. > > Jerry > > >> I don't know if anyone else spotted this, but there is a JMDL cookbook >> for >> sale on Ebay. High bid so far - 25.12. I don't think the seller is one >> of >> us. >> >> Jack >> >> >> >> **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your >> travel >> deal here. >> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:19:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It was never meant to be made available to the public. How can it be pulled??? Marian - - Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would probably be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there is a link for reporting the listing. As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to her. Michael Flaherty (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:32:25 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation is. Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and accommodating. Marian ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Flaherty To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It was never meant to be made available to the public. How can it be pulled??? Marian - Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would probably be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there is a link for reporting the listing. As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to her. Michael Flaherty (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:20:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! You are incorrect, at least in the United States. Firstly, it is copyrighted. Anything is so as soon as expressed in print or recording. Secondly, because someone is given the book, does not mean they have a right to sell it without the permission of the rights holder. It is like a Promotional copy of a cd or book. You are being given permission to own it, but not sell it. What can be done about it is to contact eBay and ask them to remove the item for sale because the seller doesn't have the right to sell it. It happens all the time with bootleg recordings. For all we know, this person may have made 50 copies, which they do NOT have the right to do, and are selling them is various locations. Jerry Rob Argento wrote: > I really don4t see what anyone could do about it. Even if it was > copyrighted > material, the fact remains that this is an "original" printing of an > admittedly small and private edition distributed to a closed circle of > friends. But someone owned it legally and decided to sell it, throw it > away, put it in their garage sale, given to Goodwill as part of an estate, > whatever - and it has been sold or gave away to this used book seller who > most certainly has the right to do with it as he pleases. > > The only way to pull it off of the market is probably to outbid everyone > else. And anything one doesn4t want anyone else to see simply shouldn4t be > put into writing. I am sure we will all get over it - and whoever buys it > is more interested in "Joni4s recipes" then a bunch of JMDL-ers. Our > place > in the Universe is oh-so-small. > > /Robban > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Marian > Russell > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32 PM > To: Michael Flaherty; Jerry Notaro; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to > complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation > is. > Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and > accommodating. > > Marian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Flaherty > To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > > >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It > was > never meant to be made available to the public. > > How can it be pulled??? > > Marian > > - > > Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would > probably > be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there > is > a > link for reporting the listing. > > As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to > her. > > Michael Flaherty > (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth > saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:27:49 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Well, if you were in the book, maybe you would feel differently? I don't really like the idea that non-JMDL people have access to all the personal bios of the contributors, and I made the complaint to ebay as the compiler on behalf of other contributors who might also feel worried about this. What is the difference between this and tape tree items that have hit ebay? This seems about as bad to me. I guess the only difference is that it's the JMDL contributors who are the victims vs. Joni and her music. I tried to email the seller, but I have to get access to my ebay account first and I can't remember my password. I'm not mad at the seller, just worried that this is being sold at all - it was never meant for that. I think it would be at least polite to also contact the seller and explain the situation, maybe see if some agreement could be reached with the seller to remove the item. Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Argento" To: "'Marian Russell'" ; "'Michael Flaherty'" ; "'Jerry Notaro'" ; ; "'Joni List'" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:07 PM Subject: RE: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I really don4t see what anyone could do about it. Even if it was copyrighted material, the fact remains that this is an "original" printing of an admittedly small and private edition distributed to a closed circle of friends. But someone owned it legally and decided to sell it, throw it away, put it in their garage sale, given to Goodwill as part of an estate, whatever - and it has been sold or gave away to this used book seller who most certainly has the right to do with it as he pleases. The only way to pull it off of the market is probably to outbid everyone else. And anything one doesn4t want anyone else to see simply shouldn4t be put into writing. I am sure we will all get over it - and whoever buys it is more interested in "Joni4s recipes" then a bunch of JMDL-ers. Our place in the Universe is oh-so-small. /Robban - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Marian Russell Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32 PM To: Michael Flaherty; Jerry Notaro; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation is. Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and accommodating. Marian ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Flaherty To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It was never meant to be made available to the public. How can it be pulled??? Marian - Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would probably be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there is a link for reporting the listing. As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to her. Michael Flaherty (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:36:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Marian Russell wrote: > What is the difference between this and tape tree items that have hit > ebay? > This seems about as bad to me. You are absolutely correct, Marian, as I stated in my previous post. There is no difference. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:32:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Loren Carter Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! All, To keep the book out of the "public domain", I'm prepared to big a stupid amount to keep it "just among friends" (if I can be so pretentious). I'm always looking for something "Joni" to give to my wife. And I'll keep an eye on this, to safeguard and to keep our family together. Unless someone else on the list wants it. I've heard and read of its' existence, but have never seen a copy. I'll let everyone know if I'm lucky enough to "win" it. If eBay pulls it, there's no worry. But if the sale continues I'll do my best (within reason) to get it. humbly, Loren - ----- Original Message ---- From: Marian Russell To: Michael Flaherty ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32:25 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation is. Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and accommodating. Marian ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Flaherty To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It was never meant to be made available to the public. How can it be pulled??? Marian - Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would probably be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there is a link for reporting the listing. As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to her. Michael Flaherty (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:07:29 -0400 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: RE: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I really don4t see what anyone could do about it. Even if it was copyrighted material, the fact remains that this is an "original" printing of an admittedly small and private edition distributed to a closed circle of friends. But someone owned it legally and decided to sell it, throw it away, put it in their garage sale, given to Goodwill as part of an estate, whatever - and it has been sold or gave away to this used book seller who most certainly has the right to do with it as he pleases. The only way to pull it off of the market is probably to outbid everyone else. And anything one doesn4t want anyone else to see simply shouldn4t be put into writing. I am sure we will all get over it - and whoever buys it is more interested in "Joni4s recipes" then a bunch of JMDL-ers. Our place in the Universe is oh-so-small. /Robban - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Marian Russell Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32 PM To: Michael Flaherty; Jerry Notaro; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation is. Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and accommodating. Marian ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Flaherty To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It was never meant to be made available to the public. How can it be pulled??? Marian - Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would probably be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there is a link for reporting the listing. As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to her. Michael Flaherty (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:51:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Loren Carter Subject: JMDL Cookbook All, And, if the cookbook ever has another edition, I make a peanut brittle that'll bring tears to your eyes. When I make it to bring to the office, people call it "crack", since they can't stop eating it until it's all gone. The last time I brought it to work, the CEO came to me and complained that he didn't get in line in time, and when he did, it was all gone, so he didn't get any. That's why I have to bring it to the office, or I'll sit around the house and absent mindedly eat it until it's all gone. So, it HAS to leave the house after I make it. I sometimes try one piece to make sure it's up to standards. A co-worker here asks, "well at one point berfore you crack it all up, isn't it ALL one piece?" Loren (who's thinking of making a batch to take to the in-laws this weekend, hmmmmmm). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:09:25 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! And anything one doesn4t want anyone else to see simply shouldn4t be > put into writing. That doesn't fly here. J.D. Salinger brought a case against Random House for publishing his letters that he had donated to a library. Just because they had them does not give them the right to copy or publish them. BTW, he won, and Random House lost. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:38:20 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! The book is indeed a copy. There are only four originals - one that got sent to Joni and three that were given as gifts or prizes at the 1998 (or was it 1999) Jonifest (to Ashara, John van Tiel, and Bern). I don''t even have an original copy in the original binding because I couldn't find another binder like the ones that were exact duplicates of Joni's. Every other version that isn't in these original bindings is a copy that someone printed out themselves from a Word or .pdf file and bound in some manner of their choosing, the one on eBay being one of those. The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed was that any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons to who they were distributed and not for publication or sale. Jerry's point seems to be that these are, in any case, copyrighted by virtue of having been printed and that no one other than the compiler/contributors has the right to print or copy them for sale. I really don't know what the exact laws are, if any, that should apply here and will be grateful for any input to provide as arguments if/when eBay contacts me. Marian - ---- Original Message ----- From: Rob Argento To: Marian Russell ; 'Michael Flaherty' ; 'Jerry Notaro' ; Merk54@aol.com ; 'Joni List' Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! You may be right. I have not seen the book and am not in it but i can appreciate the feelings involved. I mean only to point out the legal aspects of it all and that Ebay is probably not going to take anyone personal feelings into account. I am sure that the person that presently owns it also has feelings in the matter, albeit not personal, but still. Loren's suggestion is probably the best - to outbid everyone else and take it out of circulation - until the next one turns up that is. The tapes and Bob's cover compilations are a bit different. They are legal but "boarderline". While the songs/arrangements are protected by copyrights and such, we may use these personally but are breaking some law if we sell them to others. We all know that and have respected the rules there.This book is not a copy but rather an "original" first and only edition. Now concerning the PDF-edition that some of us have, that may very well be another story. /Robban On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:27:49 +0200 "Marian Russell" wrote: > Well, if you were in the book, maybe you would feel >differently? I don't really like the idea that non-JMDL >people have access to all the personal bios of the >contributors, and I made the complaint to ebay as the >compiler on behalf of other contributors who might also >feel worried about this. > > What is the difference between this and tape tree items >that have hit ebay? This seems about as bad to me. I >guess the only difference is that it's the JMDL >contributors who are the victims vs. Joni and her music. > > I tried to email the seller, but I have to get access to >my ebay account first and I can't remember my password. > I'm not mad at the seller, just worried that this is >being sold at all - it was never meant for that. I think >it would be at least polite to also contact the seller >and explain the situation, maybe see if some agreement >could be reached with the seller to remove the item. > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:39:53 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Hi Loren - It is very kind of you to offer to bid for this book, within reason. However, I can send you the .pdf file if you want it (it would be a whole lot cheaper for you!). I will let everyone know what, if anything, - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loren Carter" To: "Joni List" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:32 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > All, > > To keep the book out of the "public domain", I'm prepared to big a stupid > amount to keep it "just among friends" (if I can be so pretentious). > > I'm always looking for something "Joni" to give to my wife. And I'll keep > an eye on this, to safeguard and to keep our family together. Unless > someone else on the list wants it. I've heard and read of its' existence, > but have never seen a copy. > > I'll let everyone know if I'm lucky enough to "win" it. If eBay pulls it, > there's no worry. But if the sale continues I'll do my best (within > reason) to get it. > > humbly, > Loren > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Marian Russell > To: Michael Flaherty ; Jerry Notaro > ; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32:25 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to > complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation > is. > Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and > accommodating. > > Marian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Flaherty > To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > > >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It > was > never meant to be made available to the public. > > How can it be pulled??? > > Marian > > - > > Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would > probably > be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there > is a > link for reporting the listing. > > As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to > her. > > Michael Flaherty > (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth > saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:42:04 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! [sorry for the interruption - my laptop sometimes has a mind of its own and just sends things before I'm through!] I will let everyone know what, if anything, I hear from eBay about this. Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marian Russell" To: "Loren Carter" ; "Joni List" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:39 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > Hi Loren - > > It is very kind of you to offer to bid for this book, within reason. > However, I can send you the .pdf file if you want it (it would be a whole > lot cheaper for you!). > > I will let everyone know what, if anything, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loren Carter" > To: "Joni List" > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > >> All, >> >> To keep the book out of the "public domain", I'm prepared to big a stupid >> amount to keep it "just among friends" (if I can be so pretentious). >> >> I'm always looking for something "Joni" to give to my wife. And I'll keep >> an eye on this, to safeguard and to keep our family together. Unless >> someone else on the list wants it. I've heard and read of its' existence, >> but have never seen a copy. >> >> I'll let everyone know if I'm lucky enough to "win" it. If eBay pulls >> it, there's no worry. But if the sale continues I'll do my best (within >> reason) to get it. >> >> humbly, >> Loren >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Marian Russell >> To: Michael Flaherty ; Jerry Notaro >> ; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32:25 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to >> complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the >> violation is. >> Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and >> accommodating. >> >> Marian >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Michael Flaherty >> To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> >> >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It >> was >> never meant to be made available to the public. >> >> How can it be pulled??? >> >> Marian >> >> - >> >> Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would >> probably >> be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there >> is a >> link for reporting the listing. >> >> As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to >> her. >> >> Michael Flaherty >> (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth >> saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:44:08 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed was that any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons .......... to whom ......... they were distributed and not for publication or sale. ----- Original Message ----- From: Marian Russell To: robert@argento.se ; 'Michael Flaherty' ; 'Jerry Notaro' ; Merk54@aol.com ; 'Joni List' Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:38 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! The book is indeed a copy. There are only four originals - one that got sent to Joni and three that were given as gifts or prizes at the 1998 (or was it 1999) Jonifest (to Ashara, John van Tiel, and Bern). I don''t even have an original copy in the original binding because I couldn't find another binder like the ones that were exact duplicates of Joni's. Every other version that isn't in these original bindings is a copy that someone printed out themselves from a Word or .pdf file and bound in some manner of their choosing, the one on eBay being one of those. The understanding with which the Word and .pdf files were distributed was that any printed copies would be made for the personal use of the persons to who they were distributed and not for publication or sale. Jerry's point seems to be that these are, in any case, copyrighted by virtue of having been printed and that no one other than the compiler/contributors has the right to print or copy them for sale. I really don't know what the exact laws are, if any, that should apply here and will be grateful for any input to provide as arguments if/when eBay contacts me. Marian ---- Original Message ----- From: Rob Argento To: Marian Russell ; 'Michael Flaherty' ; 'Jerry Notaro' ; Merk54@aol.com ; 'Joni List' Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 9:19 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! You may be right. I have not seen the book and am not in it but i can appreciate the feelings involved. I mean only to point out the legal aspects of it all and that Ebay is probably not going to take anyone personal feelings into account. I am sure that the person that presently owns it also has feelings in the matter, albeit not personal, but still. Loren's suggestion is probably the best - to outbid everyone else and take it out of circulation - until the next one turns up that is. The tapes and Bob's cover compilations are a bit different. They are legal but "boarderline". While the songs/arrangements are protected by copyrights and such, we may use these personally but are breaking some law if we sell them to others. We all know that and have respected the rules there.This book is not a copy but rather an "original" first and only edition. Now concerning the PDF-edition that some of us have, that may very well be another story. /Robban On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:27:49 +0200 "Marian Russell" wrote: > Well, if you were in the book, maybe you would feel >differently? I don't really like the idea that non-JMDL >people have access to all the personal bios of the >contributors, and I made the complaint to ebay as the >compiler on behalf of other contributors who might also >feel worried about this. > > What is the difference between this and tape tree items >that have hit ebay? This seems about as bad to me. I >guess the only difference is that it's the JMDL >contributors who are the victims vs. Joni and her music. > > I tried to email the seller, but I have to get access to >my ebay account first and I can't remember my password. > I'm not mad at the seller, just worried that this is >being sold at all - it was never meant for that. I think >it would be at least polite to also contact the seller >and explain the situation, maybe see if some agreement >could be reached with the seller to remove the item. > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:08:49 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > Jerry's point seems to be that these are, in any case, copyrighted by virtue > of having been printed and that no one other than the compiler/contributors > has the right to print or copy them for sale. You are correct, Marian, at least here in the States. Technically, the copyright is assigned upon "creation" which may or may not involve "printing." Of course, it is always best to formally apply for copyright anything you create. But none of us ever thought anyone would try to sell these. I've read the listing and this person seems to have come across the item and isn't trying to be mean spirited. But just the same, he/she has no right to sell it. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:18:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Loren Carter Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Marian, I would love to have a copy of the PDF of the cookbook, but if I can get the one from eBay off the streets, then I won't need it. But, let's see what happens when the dust settles from the eBay front. If it turns out that the bidding gets too stupid or combative, I'll be back at your door, with my hat in my hand. But for now, let's wait to see what the future holds. thanks for the offer, Loren - ----- Original Message ---- From: Marian Russell To: Loren Carter ; Joni List Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:39:53 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Hi Loren - It is very kind of you to offer to bid for this book, within reason. However, I can send you the .pdf file if you want it (it would be a whole lot cheaper for you!). I will let everyone know what, if anything, - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loren Carter" To: "Joni List" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:32 PM Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > All, > > To keep the book out of the "public domain", I'm prepared to big a stupid > amount to keep it "just among friends" (if I can be so pretentious). > > I'm always looking for something "Joni" to give to my wife. And I'll keep > an eye on this, to safeguard and to keep our family together. Unless > someone else on the list wants it. I've heard and read of its' existence, > but have never seen a copy. > > I'll let everyone know if I'm lucky enough to "win" it. If eBay pulls it, > there's no worry. But if the sale continues I'll do my best (within > reason) to get it. > > humbly, > Loren > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Marian Russell > To: Michael Flaherty ; Jerry Notaro > ; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32:25 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to > complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation > is. > Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and > accommodating. > > Marian > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Flaherty > To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > > >.This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It > was > never meant to be made available to the public. > > How can it be pulled??? > > Marian > > - > > Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would > probably > be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there > is a > link for reporting the listing. > > As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to > her. > > Michael Flaherty > (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth > saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:19:32 +0200 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! You may be right. I have not seen the book and am not in it but i can appreciate the feelings involved. I mean only to point out the legal aspects of it all and that Ebay is probably not going to take anyone personal feelings into account. I am sure that the person that presently owns it also has feelings in the matter, albeit not personal, but still. Loren's suggestion is probably the best - to outbid everyone else and take it out of circulation - until the next one turns up that is. The tapes and Bob's cover compilations are a bit different. They are legal but "boarderline". While the songs/arrangements are protected by copyrights and such, we may use these personally but are breaking some law if we sell them to others. We all know that and have respected the rules there.This book is not a copy but rather an "original" first and only edition. Now concerning the PDF-edition that some of us have, that may very well be another story. /Robban On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:27:49 +0200 "Marian Russell" wrote: > Well, if you were in the book, maybe you would feel >differently? I don't really like the idea that non-JMDL >people have access to all the personal bios of the >contributors, and I made the complaint to ebay as the >compiler on behalf of other contributors who might also >feel worried about this. > > What is the difference between this and tape tree items >that have hit ebay? This seems about as bad to me. I >guess the only difference is that it's the JMDL >contributors who are the victims vs. Joni and her music. > > I tried to email the seller, but I have to get access to >my ebay account first and I can't remember my password. > I'm not mad at the seller, just worried that this is >being sold at all - it was never meant for that. I think >it would be at least polite to also contact the seller >and explain the situation, maybe see if some agreement >could be reached with the seller to remove the item. > > Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:32:09 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Yes. I'd like to add it is definitely WORTH that much. They are beautiful. I treasure my copy. I can't imagine anyone giving theirs away. Jerry > Marian, > > I would love to have a copy of the PDF of the cookbook, but if I can get the > one from eBay off the streets, then I won't need it. But, let's see what > happens when the dust settles from the eBay front. If it turns out that the > bidding gets too stupid or combative, I'll be back at your door, with my hat > in my hand. But for now, let's wait to see what the future holds. > > thanks for the offer, > Loren > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Marian Russell > To: Loren Carter ; Joni List > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:39:53 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > Hi Loren - > > It is very kind of you to offer to bid for this book, within reason. > However, I can send you the .pdf file if you want it (it would be a whole > lot cheaper for you!). > > I will let everyone know what, if anything, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loren Carter" > To: "Joni List" > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > >> All, >> >> To keep the book out of the "public domain", I'm prepared to big a stupid >> amount to keep it "just among friends" (if I can be so pretentious). >> >> I'm always looking for something "Joni" to give to my wife. And I'll keep >> an eye on this, to safeguard and to keep our family together. Unless >> someone else on the list wants it. I've heard and read of its' existence, >> but have never seen a copy. >> >> I'll let everyone know if I'm lucky enough to "win" it. If eBay pulls it, >> there's no worry. But if the sale continues I'll do my best (within >> reason) to get it. >> >> humbly, >> Loren >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Marian Russell >> To: Michael Flaherty ; Jerry Notaro >> ; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32:25 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to >> complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation >> is. >> Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and >> accommodating. >> >> Marian >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Michael Flaherty >> To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> >>> .This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It >> was >> never meant to be made available to the public. >> >> How can it be pulled??? >> >> Marian >> >> - >> >> Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would >> probably >> be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there >> is a >> link for reporting the listing. >> >> As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to >> her. >> >> Michael Flaherty >> (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth >> saying) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Marian wrote (in part): > The book is indeed a copy. There are only four originals - > one that got sent > to Joni and three that were given as gifts or prizes at the > 1998 (or was it > 1999) Jonifest (to Ashara, John van Tiel, and Bern). I > don''t even have an > original copy in the original binding because I > couldn't find another binder > like the ones that were exact duplicates of Joni's. > Every other version that > isn't in these original bindings is a copy that someone > printed out themselves > from a Word or .pdf file and bound in some manner of their > choosing, the one > on eBay being one of those. The understanding with which > the Word and .pdf > files were distributed was that any printed copies would be > made for the > personal use of the persons to who they were distributed > and not for > publication or sale. I pulled my copy from the shelf and it is a stiff cover and spiral bound edition with the following on the outside of the back cover: "(Jonifest 2003 logo) First published in 1999 and presented to Joni as a gift, this limited edition reproduction celebrates Northeast Jonifest 2003. August 8-11 at Full Moon Resort in Oliverea, New York. Jonifest 2003 logo by Claudia SanSoucie" (and a beautiful logo it is!) Yes, there's a lot of personal information in these pages, but no more than could be gleaned by someone with the time and inclination to dive into the smoe archives. If the copy for sale is a photocopied or printed MSWord document, that's just wrong. But if it's one of these Jonifest editions, I don't see that we have grounds to stop its sale. I'm neither a lawyer nor a librarian, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn in Pittsburgh last week. ;-) Brian, back to deep lurkdom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:54:03 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Wish I'd been around then. I like to cook. It may not be beautiful, but I'd love a pdf if it isn't too much trouble. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 4:32 PM To: Loren Carter; Marian Russell; Joni List Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! Yes. I'd like to add it is definitely WORTH that much. They are beautiful. I treasure my copy. I can't imagine anyone giving theirs away. Jerry > Marian, > > I would love to have a copy of the PDF of the cookbook, but if I can get the > one from eBay off the streets, then I won't need it. But, let's see what > happens when the dust settles from the eBay front. If it turns out that the > bidding gets too stupid or combative, I'll be back at your door, with my hat > in my hand. But for now, let's wait to see what the future holds. > > thanks for the offer, > Loren > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Marian Russell > To: Loren Carter ; Joni List > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 3:39:53 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > Hi Loren - > > It is very kind of you to offer to bid for this book, within reason. > However, I can send you the .pdf file if you want it (it would be a whole > lot cheaper for you!). > > I will let everyone know what, if anything, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Loren Carter" > To: "Joni List" > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! > > >> All, >> >> To keep the book out of the "public domain", I'm prepared to big a stupid >> amount to keep it "just among friends" (if I can be so pretentious). >> >> I'm always looking for something "Joni" to give to my wife. And I'll keep >> an eye on this, to safeguard and to keep our family together. Unless >> someone else on the list wants it. I've heard and read of its' existence, >> but have never seen a copy. >> >> I'll let everyone know if I'm lucky enough to "win" it. If eBay pulls it, >> there's no worry. But if the sale continues I'll do my best (within >> reason) to get it. >> >> humbly, >> Loren >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Marian Russell >> To: Michael Flaherty ; Jerry Notaro >> ; Merk54@aol.com; Joni List >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 1:32:25 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> I have filed a complaint. They don't really give you a lot of space to >> complain, though, and I found it hard to choose exactly what the violation >> is. >> Hopefully ebay will contact me for further details and be helpful and >> accommodating. >> >> Marian >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Michael Flaherty >> To: Marian Russell ; Jerry Notaro ; Merk54@aol.com ; Joni List >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2008 7:19 PM >> Subject: Re: We've hit the big time - JMDL cookbook on Ebay! >> >> >>> .This is really bad. There is so much personal info in that book. It >> was >> never meant to be made available to the public. >> >> How can it be pulled??? >> >> Marian >> >> - >> >> Marian, as your listed in the description as the compiler, it would >> probably >> be best if the complaint came from you. At the bottom of the page there >> is a >> link for reporting the listing. >> >> As the seller is a bookstore, someone from the list must have sold it to >> her. >> >> Michael Flaherty >> (who hasn't been lurking so much as he just hasn't had anything worth >> saying) :-) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #148 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe