From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #137 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 13 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 137 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni's most honest song ["Mark Angelo" ] [none] ["Anita Tedder" ] Who says you can't dance to Joni? ["Kate Bennett" ] SV: Who says you can't dance to Joni? ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: Raised on Robbery & Laura ["Mark Angelo" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 03:11:33 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni's most honest song I agree with the consensus that all of Joni's music is refreshingly honest and that after all is what resonated with me when I first discovered her with C&S in 7th grade - People's Parties comes to mind as Anita has mentioned in another post. Her most honest song must of course be a subjective choice, as the majority of her songs speak to finding meaning in her own life and then progressively the world she journeys through - "in search of love and music my whole life has been, illuminating, corruption, and diving ... down to pick up every shiny thing - Just like that black crow". Attempting in a way to see just how different, if in fact we really are from "those crazy crows always causing a commotion". If I had to pick, I would find that some of her most honest songs tend to focus on mankind's short-sighted egos and the resulting consequence we witness unfolding many coming from the lyrics of many of the songs on "Shine". Again, not unlike that "Crazy Crow" whose opportunistic scavenging for shiny things she has long linked to man's insatiable desires she states with unabashed honesty: You cannot be trusted Do you even know you're lying > It's dangerous to kid yourself > You go deaf, dumb, and blind (has a flashback to People's Parties...) > You take with such entitlement > You give bad attitude > You have no grace > No empathy > No gratitude. > You have no sense of consequence > Oh my head is in my hands... > At first glance most of us naturally project and it appears that she is pointing the finger of blame at TPTB, (fill in the blank...); however, she is speaking of mankind's egos (including her own), and perhaps especially referencing Western notions promulgated heavily now by "Popular Psychology" that a strong sense of self or ego is so imperative - that is to say I KNOW WHAT I WANT - is not necessarily best for mankind and the Natural World he is part of and is the root cause of the Biodiversity Holocaust playing at a screen near you. Indeed she continues to expound on the destructiveness that mankind's anthropocentric rationalization of his greed and desire and the concomitant need to make exponentially increasing copies of ourselves ultimately leads to in the song: And now we have to grapple With our man-made world backfiring > Keeping one eye on our brother's deadly selfishness > No one knows how to shoulder the blame Or learn from past mistakes > In these last two lines, particularly worrisome to me, can be read (in part) on a societal level that the USA cannot accept blame for it's own actions made in it's own self interests, and thus busily creates a "Borderline...Every notion we subscribe to is just a borderline" with terrorists, heretics, savages, (fill in the blank...) over "there" beyond the border which the USA fights so as not to fight them over "here" within the border...or some such convoluted thinking. The USA won't learn from past mistakes, none of the previous failed Empires has ever looked to history as their obsessions with power led ultimately to failure. But the USA is populated by immigrants - some would say largely the offspring of a genocidal people that caused the deaths of some 15 million (I believe) Native Indians..."I feel like Geronimo, I used to be as trusting as Cochise, But the white eyes lies, He's out of whack with Nature, And look how far his weapons reach!". The USA, backed into a corner with a paradigm based on cheap oil that it is desperately trying to keep running rather than accept realities and make changes while behemoths of our "blessed lifestyle" fail and our fiat currency backed by nothing - well trust I suppose, something which it's own citizens and other countries no longer have much of - I fear could resort to it's nuclear arsenal - "But the white eyes lies ....And just look at how far his weapons reach!". After all, the USA is busily carpeting the countryside and the peoples of the Middle East half a world away (and our own veterans) with Depleted Uranium, a nuclear weapon with a half-life of 4.5 billion years (the age of the Earth for reference). These lyrics from "Shine" are the words of a sage, a philosopher, a heretic to some - "thousands of years and here we are... still worshiping our own ego", a heroine to some (which she consumately rejected with the selection of the title "Blue" for her fourth album) but through it all she has been truthful to herself, shining a light on hypocrisy, corruption, a man-made economic system which is necessarily at odds with Nature, as no fiat value can be assigned to a species, and a species that has for millennia worshiped his own ego and has fought countless wars justified by this attachment to thoughts also known as a belief. So my apologies, a quick take on Joni's most honest song turns into a screed on the brilliant, honest, and yet unnerving lyrics on "Shine"- in the sense there are no scientific "tunnel vision" fixes or promises of hope and change that will "save the day". "And everyone's a victim!, Nobody's hands are clean!". Each one of us perpetrator and victim alike, sadly no easy "feel good" mantras to stroke our egos with for those not continually caressed by the "blue TV screen light" propaganda of the Main Stream Media. On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 3:14 PM, David Sapp wrote: > It's interesting that this topic should come up... I was at a workshop a > few > weeks ago and I was asked to name a publicly known person that I admired. > Of > course without missing a beat I said Joni Mitchell. The facilitator then > asked... why? Well with all the millions of reasons I admire Joni what > popped > out of my mouth was: her honesty. I was really surprised by my response... > I > just never really considered that as the main reason I admire her. > > For brutal honesty and bravery in song you'd be hard-pressed to find one > more > honest than: River.... signing off for now, > Peace, David > - -- - -Mark in Florida ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:24:27 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: [none] Laura, I just read again what I wrote just now about Raised on Robbery in response to your post. What I don't feel I captured at all in my first response was how moved I was. I said in my earlier email that I was "blown away" by your words, but it's nearer to say I was very, very touched by your story. I know you have shared a lot of your life before, but somehow the sharing of what Raised by Robbery had meant to you struck me as most eloquent and honest. It made me very glad that you are out there. Anita Anita Tedder _____ I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 414 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 01:39:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Who says you can't dance to Joni? Oy, there is only so much you can do with swirly arms... & the one time she tried to pick up her leg she almost fell over! >And remember, just because you know how to upload videos on YouTube doesn't mean that you should. Bob> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:11:19 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Who says you can't dance to Joni? She should have watched The Fiddle and the Drum before attempting this. That would probably have made her stick to cheerleading. Or not... Anyway, something good came out of it for me, I heard DJRD for the first time in ages. I only have it on vinyl and don't own a record player anymore. So now I'm going to go out and get the CD, finally! Marion, listening to the pouring rain - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Bob Muller Skickat: den 12 augusti 2008 00:43 Till: JMDL Dmne: Who says you can't dance to Joni? LOL - this is a hoot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAKW3-2D-Q You'd think she would have: a. picked a top that didn't keep slipping away, b. picked a shorter song, c. started working the light pole in the corner And remember, just because you know how to upload videos on YouTube doesn't mean that you should. Bob NP: Death Cab For Cutie, "No Sunlight' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 06:31:07 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #136 In a message dated 8/12/2008 3:04:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org writes: LOL - this is a hoot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAKW3-2D-Q You'd think she would have: a. picked a top that didn't keep slipping away, b. picked a shorter song, c. started working the light pole in the corner And remember, just because you know how to upload videos on YouTube doesn't mean that you should. d. fashioned her sandal straps into a harness for her top **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:04:18 -0400 (EDT) From: scam1@freeway.net Subject: Don Juan's skateless daughter Bob M wrote: LOL - this is a hoot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAAKW3-2D-Q You'd think she would have: a. picked a top that didn't keep slipping away, b. picked a shorter song, c. started working the light pole in the corner And remember, just because you know how to upload videos on YouTube doesn't mean that you should. Now me: Ahhh! That is what Peggy Flemming is doing since hanging up her skates. Makes sense. LOL. Friends don't let friends post drunken dancing videos on You Tube. Jealous of those of you headed to UK Fest. Suze n.p. Driftwood Fire, 'Slept Too Soundly' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:44:22 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Don Juan's skateless daughter I was afraid that the video was going to stray into the 'inappropriate' arena, but it didn't - dammit. Wish you were, Sue - it's going to be magnificent. We'll catch you at the next one. I'm going to start looking in the North Carolina mountains for something for next fall/Labor Day and see if something fits the bill. Bob NP: Santana, "Toussaint l'Overture" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:47:45 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Raised on Robbery & Laura Hi, Laura, Thank you so much for sharing your story with us and I'm so glad it has a positive ending for you. I happened to grow up in a family where my father became an alcoholic. Luckily, with the help of a good doctor, he was able to kick his habit, but I'll never forget the problems it caused when I was a child. The fact that you relate so strongly to "Raised on Robbery" is a perfect example of how we, as passionate lovers of music, can appreciate and understand the messages in songs. While some may feel the song is dishonest (from Joni, at least), it proves that we all see the "honest" side of stories like that from a persnal perspective. Kenny B > Laura wrote: > Hi Anita, > > Whoa.. Raised on Robbery! When I first heard Raised on Robbery, I was > still a drunk. I thought the third verse was about my boyfriend and the rest of > the song was about me even when I was dating him. One of my friends made > gin her drink based on the song. > > It has always been a love/hate song for me because of the way I related > yet didn't like relating because it was the truth about myself all up in my > face... the glorified hell of a life as a drunk. You do whatever it takes to > get what you need to support your addiction which ends up in "pitiful and > incomprehensible demoralization." > > I was raised on robbery coming from a family of alcoholics who taught me > that to lie, steal, and cheat was okay as long as it was clever and you > didn't get caught. At high school graduation my classmates named me the #1 member > of the Mt. St. Mary Maffia which I was proud of yet angry at them about > because... they knew. > > When I was 16, I broke into 2 neighbor's houses and reaped the benefits > of a third break-in my accomplice did to support our addiction problem. I > stole from my parents, from my high school, and as I got older I stole from > bars, guys in bars, and the hospital where I worked, and anywhere really. I > stole from so many places that making amends now in sobriety has been a real > challenge. > > The karma of it is recently, our house was broken into, and the one who > the police are pretty much convinced did it is a 16 year old who used to be my > oldest son's best friend. His robbery was to support his addiction problem. > I hope I eventually get to share my experience, strength, and hope with him > that I've gained in sobriety. > > Raised on Robbery is about dishonesty but is so blatantly honest about > this dishonesty that the song still gets to me. It is a good reminder of what > happens to me when I drink. For Joni to capture that and not be an alcoholic > herself is really awesome. > > Love, > Laura > > ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000500000000 17 ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:16:58 -0400 From: Vince Subject: New CSN album being recorded with Joni content According to the "Smoking Section" in the most recent Rolling Stone, David Crosby, after rehashing more drug stories (rehashing, drug stories, ain't I witty!) goes on to say that CSN (no Y) is recording a new album with Rick Rubin featuring covers of the favorite songs, including Joni, the Beatles, JT, Dylan , "people that we love." Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:14:47 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Raised on Robbery & Laura Laura thanks for being so candid about that aspect of your past and how you found that part of your life mirrored in the song "Raised On Robbery". Like Anita, I never could relate to the song either as I had no context to really place it in as most of my listening to C&S was when I was quite young and naive before I "began to see through a glass darkly". In fact for over 3 decades now I just assumed Joni had not written the song herself (wrongly!!) as I personally found it to be entertaining and light and rather whimsical, more akin to "Twisted" than to her own compositions. It never even occurred to me back then that the song addressed dishonesty resulting from addictive behavior (alcoholism) which like you said ultimately becomes demoralizing, ultimately with rationalization of destructive behaviors made to support the addiction which often leads to one of society's two warehouses, the hospital or the jail. And Kenny makes a good point as well that songs and music seem "honest" to us when we can personally identify with the music as our life experiences permit us to do so. On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:47 PM, wrote: > Hi, Laura, > Thank you so much for sharing your story with us and I'm so glad it > has a positive ending for you. I happened to grow up in a family where my > father > became an alcoholic. Luckily, with the help of a good doctor, he was able > to > kick his habit, but I'll never forget the problems it caused when I was a > child. > The fact that you relate so strongly to "Raised on Robbery" is a > perfect > example of how we, as passionate lovers of music, can appreciate and > understand the messages in songs. While some may feel the song is dishonest > (from > Joni, at least), it proves that we all see the "honest" side of stories > like > that > from a persnal perspective. > > Kenny B > > > Laura wrote: > > Hi Anita, > > > > Whoa.. Raised on Robbery! When I first heard Raised on Robbery, I was > > still a drunk. I thought the third verse was about my boyfriend and the > rest > of > > the song was about me even when I was dating him. One of my friends made > > gin her drink based on the song. > > > > It has always been a love/hate song for me because of the way I > related > > yet didn't like relating because it was the truth about myself all up in > my > > face... the glorified hell of a life as a drunk. You do whatever it > takes > to > > get what you need to support your addiction which ends up in "pitiful and > > incomprehensible demoralization." > > > > I was raised on robbery coming from a family of alcoholics who taught > me > > that to lie, steal, and cheat was okay as long as it was clever and you > > didn't get caught. At high school graduation my classmates named me the > #1 > member > > of the Mt. St. Mary Maffia which I was proud of yet angry at them about > > because... they knew. > > > > When I was 16, I broke into 2 neighbor's houses and reaped the > benefits > > of a third break-in my accomplice did to support our addiction problem. > I > > stole from my parents, from my high school, and as I got older I stole > from > > bars, guys in bars, and the hospital where I worked, and anywhere really. > I > > stole from so many places that making amends now in sobriety has been a > real > > challenge. > > > > The karma of it is recently, our house was broken into, and the one who > > the police are pretty much convinced did it is a 16 year old who used to > be > my > > oldest son's best friend. His robbery was to support his addiction > problem. > > I hope I eventually get to share my experience, strength, and hope with > him > > that I've gained in sobriety. > > > > Raised on Robbery is about dishonesty but is so blatantly honest about > > this dishonesty that the song still gets to me. It is a good reminder of > what > > happens to me when I drink. For Joni to capture that and not be an > alcoholic > > herself is really awesome. > > > > Love, > > Laura > > > > > > > > > ************** > Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? > Read reviews on AOL Autos. > > ( > http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut000500000000 > 17 ) > - -- - -Mark in Florida ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #137 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe