From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #87 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, June 24 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 087 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Oh, damn . . . ["T Peckham" ] Re: Both Sides Now [Garret ] Re: CBS Sunday Morning [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Joni in the Guardian [Garret ] Re: CBS Sunday Morning... now summer Joni [Garret ] Re: ?? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: summer albums [rsc1@humboldt.edu] Furry Lewis and Joni [Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com] Re: Furry Lewis and Joni ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Furry Lewis and Joni ["Cassy" ] RE: Furry Lewis and Joni [anon anon ] Re: Furry Lewis and Joni [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: Furry Lewis and Joni [Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com] The Guardian series "Great Lyricists" [M C ] Re: Furry Lewis and Joni ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Furry Lewis and Joni [Deb Messling ] Re: Furry Lewis and Joni [Monika Bogdanowicz ] VLJC Re: Joni in the Guardian/ Now Cohen [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: ?? ["Randy Remote" ] RE: ?? ["Rob Argento" ] Re: ?? ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:43:54 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Oh, damn . . . Another one gone. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080623/us_nm/carlin_dc - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:09:56 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Both Sides Now A great way to start Monday, thanks Monika. GARRET On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 4:03 AM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > Start your work week off right with some fantastic Joni from this fab concert: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vTJ0lNY54E > -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:43:29 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: CBS Sunday Morning >it named Blue as one of the great summer albums of all time.< This is the album which contains the line, "It's coming on Christmas", right? Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't Christmas in the Northern Hemisphere still in the Winter? It might be a Summer album in Australia or New Zealand or South Africa or Brazil but, in the USA? Did you guys go and change Christmas or is that just a CBS Christmas? Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:31:20 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Joni in the Guardian The Guardian newspaper is currently doing a series of booklets dedicated to Great Songwriters. These booklets are about 24 or 26 pages in length, have a nice intro, cuttings from the paper, and lyrics from a number of songs. Today, it is Morrissey, tomorrow, it's Joni. Others in the series include Patti Smith, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen. GARRET NP - Patti Smith, Ain't It Strange ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:32:56 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: CBS Sunday Morning... now summer Joni I tend to associate MOA with summer and LOTC (espeically with sunny mornings) GARRET On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 12:43 PM, Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: >>it named Blue as one of the great summer > albums of all time.< > > This is the album which contains the line, "It's coming on Christmas", > right? Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't Christmas in the Northern > Hemisphere still in the Winter? It might be a Summer album in Australia or > New Zealand or South Africa or Brazil but, in the USA? > > Did you guys go and change Christmas or is that just a CBS Christmas? > > Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:11:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: ?? A piece of paper taped, with, I'm guessing the words, key or chords to her song. I often used to do that with songlists to help me remember the order of songs to play. >What's that white on her guitar, on the upside of the curved part of the body toward the neck? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXe95iTtci0&feature=related< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: rsc1@humboldt.edu Subject: Re: summer albums >> ..sorry I couldn't think of anything from this century Wait! You did have one record from the 21st... >> Under the Covers Vol 1-M.Sweet/S.Hoffs ... though it is all covers from the 20th! But a really great record, nonetheless. Still awaiting Volume Two! Gus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:42:46 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: Furry Lewis and Joni I stumbled across this article in the JMDL (see link below). Apparently Furry Lewis was not too happy about being mentioned by name in "Furry Sings the Blues" (on Hejira). At first I was thinking that old Furry is just bitter and would have a problem with just about anything anybody did. But after thinking about it......I really see his point. He claims Joni used his name with out permission and apparently from the response of her manager (which by the way is pretty weak) she did indeed publish the song without seeking permission from Furry. http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=107 Here are a few quotes: "The way I feel" says Furry "is that your name is proper only to you, and when you use it you should get results from it. She shouldn't have used my name in no way, shape, form or faction without consultin' me 'bout it first. The woman came over here and I treated her right, just like I does everybody that comes over. She wanted to hear 'bout the old days, said it was for her own personal self, and I told it to her like it was, gave her straight oil from the can." (Though Joni Mitchell had no response to Furry's comments, her manager, Elliot Roberts, responded: "All she said about him was, 'Furry sings the blues' the rest is about the neighborhood. She doesn't even mention his last name"). Clearly the song is more than about Beale Street as there are numerous references to Furry and the whole song seems to center around him. I don't know if this was ever discussed before on the list but I am curious how others feel about the article..... I also saw this comment on another blog on the same subject........ .............."Now, try and imagine the scenario reversed: some old, scraggly blues musician just shows up at Joni's mansion. Would he be welcomed in for a nice lengthy visit? Would Joni play a few songs for him? And then when he went and recorded a song afterward, with a line like, say: "Joni's an old lady now, looks terrible without her makeup, and can't hit those high notes like she used to..." Wonder how she'd feel about that? - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni Joni needed no permission to publish a song about Furry. He is a public figure and she had every artistic, legal, and ethical right to use his name in a song. If she had used his music or lyrics, that would have been a different story. People make Joni references in lyrics and books all the time. I doubt if any of them ever asked her permission to do so. Jerry Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com wrote: > I stumbled across this article in the JMDL (see link below). Apparently > Furry Lewis was not too happy about being mentioned by name in "Furry > Sings > the Blues" (on Hejira). At first I was thinking that old Furry is just > bitter and would have a problem with just about anything anybody did. But > after thinking about it......I really see his point. He claims Joni used > his name with out permission and apparently from the response of her > manager (which by the way is pretty weak) she did indeed publish the song > without seeking permission from Furry. > > > http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=107 > > > > Here are a few quotes: > > > "The way I feel" says Furry "is that your name is proper only to you, and > when you use it you should get results from it. She shouldn't have used my > name in no way, shape, form or faction without consultin' me 'bout it > first. The woman came over here and I treated her right, just like I does > everybody that comes over. She wanted to hear 'bout the old days, said it > was for her own personal self, and I told it to her like it was, gave her > straight oil from the can." > > (Though Joni Mitchell had no response to Furry's comments, her manager, > Elliot Roberts, responded: "All she said about him was, 'Furry sings the > blues' the rest is about the neighborhood. She doesn't even mention his > last name"). > > > Clearly the song is more than about Beale Street as there are numerous > references to Furry and the whole song seems to center around him. I don't > know if this was ever discussed before on the list but I am curious how > others feel about the article..... > > > I also saw this comment on another blog on the same subject........ > .............."Now, try and imagine the scenario reversed: some old, > scraggly blues musician just shows up at Joni's mansion. Would he be > welcomed in for a nice lengthy visit? Would Joni play a few songs for him? > And then when he went and recorded a song afterward, with a line like, > say: > "Joni's an old lady now, looks terrible without her makeup, and can't hit > those high notes like she used to..." > > Wonder how she'd feel about that? > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the > use > of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from > disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that > any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is > strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, > please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:20:12 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni Jerry wrote: <<>> I'm not sure whether I dreamed this one stoned night long ago but it was my understanding that the harmonica licks were a direct lift of something he played for them when they were guests. Not sure where I got this idea from but I've believed it as truth for so long that it seems like it should be. Cassy NP: ColdPlay - Violet Hill from the new CD Viva la Vida ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:28:13 -0400 From: anon anon Subject: RE: Furry Lewis and Joni > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:09:39 -0400> Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni> From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu> To: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com> CC: joni@smoe.org> > Joni needed no permission to publish a song about Furry. He is a public> figure and she had every artistic, legal, and ethical right to use his> name in a song. If she had used his music or lyrics, that would have been> a different story. People make Joni references in lyrics and books all the> time. I doubt if any of them ever asked her permission to do so.> > Jerry> true, but it would have been gracious of Joni to pay Furry... still, the song undoubtedly attracted people unfamiliar with Furry to seek out his music, and that is certainly a positive thing to come from the song... _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ Refresh_messenger_062008 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:37:26 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni Well put, Jerry - and looking at the lyrics of the song they're more descriptive and literary than they are derogatory, sounds like Joni the storyteller's just metaphorically telling it like it is. As for the "what if the situation was reversed" comment, seems like it's apples & oranges to me and not really relevant. Or spin it this way...what if one of the finest composers of our time immortalized you in a song on one of her finest albums? Not something you should mind TOO much. Bob NP: Joe Henry, "Meanest Flower" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:51:57 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: RE: Furry Lewis and Joni I tend to agree with you Anon. The guy is 83 years old ..is half blind and has a wooden leg. At mininimum, I would think someone from Joni's camp would have notified him that song will be released to the public and perhaps offer something in return for his cooperation. I get the impression that that money is what he wanted anyway (The way I feel" says Furry "is that your name is proper only to you, and when you use it you should get results from it). Another comment from a related story - "There should have been a lot more sensitivity from Mitchell, who was, after all, writing about a living, breathing person, and mentioning that person by name. Hell, if I was Furry Lewis, I'd be damned mad if I'd invited someone into my home and then read lines like: "propped up in his bed with his dentures and his wooden leg removed" and "We're only welcome for our drink and smoke". Cassy - BTW - I think that is Neil Young on harmonica... anon anon To 06/23/2008 04:28 PM Jerry Notaro , , cc Subject RE: Furry Lewis and Joni > Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:09:39 -0400 > Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni > From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu > To: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com > CC: joni@smoe.org > > Joni needed no permission to publish a song about Furry. He is a public > figure and she had every artistic, legal, and ethical right to use his > name in a song. If she had used his music or lyrics, that would have been > a different story. People make Joni references in lyrics and books all the > time. I doubt if any of them ever asked her permission to do so. > > Jerry > true, but it would have been gracious of Joni to pay Furry... still, the song undoubtedly attracted people unfamiliar with Furry to seek out his music, and that is certainly a positive thing to come from the song... Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. IM on your terms. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:35:20 -0700 (PDT) From: M C Subject: The Guardian series "Great Lyricists" howdy, delurking a moment to pass this on. - mc The Guardian newspaper in the UK is publishing a series of 8 booklets called "Great Lyricists". Artists in the series include Patti Smith, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Morrissey, Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:25:06 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni Joni did not use Furry's last name in the song. Had Lewis not publicly made a fuss in Rolling Stone, pretty much no one would have known the song was about him. I think part of his problem was what he saw as a negative portrayal. And this rich lady "that woman" with her limo. Pride? Ego? Dignity? Poverty? I think it would have been hard for Joni's people to go to him and say, 'um,, we wrote this song about you, is it okay?', considering the lyrics. Also it is not a song just about him, he is emblematic of a bygone scene she is describing. Joni could have justified it artistically. If Picasso saw Furry, he would've sketched him, too. Yes, that is Neil Young gamely blowing harp through the changes. His only appearance on a Joni record, I think. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:04:41 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni It's an ethical dilemma faced by a lot of artists. Everything and everyone is fodder for your art, and you can end up hurting people. Is your art important enough that causing pain to other people is justified? It's kind of arrogant for an artist to think so. But if they didn't think so, we would miss out on a lot of great art. So... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:03:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Furry Lewis and Joni Joni never mentioned "Furry's" last name and even she did that, she would still have had no legal responsibility to give him any sort of payment. Think about how many songs use famous names all the time. No big deal. Had she used something from a copyrighted song of his, we'd have a whole different story. There's nothing wrong legally with writing a song about a particular area/scene or mentioning someone by name (even last name too!). Also, I don't think there's anything wrong morally. She was telling a story (a fine one may I say!) in a song. She wasn't being condescending in it or anything of that nature even. Had she been that, we could atleast say she was being rude. In my honest opinion. ol' Furry was indeed just a bitter musician looking to cash in on something since he said you shouldn't have the right to use someone's name without something in return. If he had said he just didn't like the idea he was in somebody's song (a matter of privacy and all) I would have still thought he was being a bit oversensitive but I'd have a little more respect for him since it wouldn't have been about the money. -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:07:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: VLJC Re: Joni in the Guardian/ Now Cohen Nice! Thanks for sharing. It is always great to see Joni get some recognition. Anyway, I keep hearing about Leonard Cohen on this list as there are Cohen fans here, just as there is a Joni-Cohen link. I've also had a couple of musicians recently who I played shows with mention their respect for Leonard Cohen. If I were to get an album of his from the library to check him out, what would a Cohen fan recommend? -Monika Garret wrote: The Guardian newspaper is currently doing a series of booklets dedicated to Great Songwriters. These booklets are about 24 or 26 pages in length, have a nice intro, cuttings from the paper, and lyrics from a number of songs. Today, it is Morrissey, tomorrow, it's Joni. Others in the series include Patti Smith, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen. GARRET NP - Patti Smith, Ain't It Strange ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:36:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: ?? Hi Bob, I mean that rectangular, white thing on the upside of the thickness of the body of her guitar that can be seen only when the camera is from her back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXe95iTtci0&feature=related Hadn't noticed the yellow rose - that is cool. Love, Laura - --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Bob Muller wrote: > > A flower. > >> > What's that white on her guitar, on the upside of the > curved part of the body toward the neck? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXe95iTtci0&feature=related ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:34:44 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: ?? > I mean that rectangular, white thing on the upside of the thickness of > the body of her guitar that can be seen only when the camera is from her > back. It's a set list or some lyrics she needed to remember. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 00:44:36 -0400 From: "Rob Argento" Subject: RE: ?? Yes, definitely a set list, just a list of a bunch of songs taped on the side. Back in our coffeehouse days it was the folksinger's little memory helper. For those of us less talented it was that day's method of pimping out our guitars. I had one of those Martins back then at our little Coffee house in North Miami, "The Euphoria". Joni's Looks like a Martin D-28 from the trim. Ah! Nostalgia! But I still have my 00-18, traveling guitar, from back then even if the set list is long gone. /Robban - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Laura Stanley Sent: den 23 juni 2008 23:36 To: Bob Muller Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: ?? Hi Bob, I mean that rectangular, white thing on the upside of the thickness of the body of her guitar that can be seen only when the camera is from her back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXe95iTtci0&feature=related Hadn't noticed the yellow rose - that is cool. Love, Laura - --- On Sun, 6/22/08, Bob Muller wrote: > > A flower. > >> > What's that white on her guitar, on the upside of the > curved part of the body toward the neck? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXe95iTtci0&feature=related ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:46:15 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: ?? Ah ok, that's gotta be her set list. In the 1988 Q magazine there is a photo of her hugging her guitar with the titles of her songs handwritten and taped to the body her guitar in the very same position. 2008/6/24 Laura Stanley : > Hi Bob, > > I mean that rectangular, white thing on the upside of the thickness of the body of her guitar that can be seen only when the camera is from her back. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXe95iTtci0&feature=related > > Hadn't noticed the yellow rose - that is cool. > > Love, > Laura ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #87 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe