From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #81 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 18 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 081 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SV: Retro Joni Covers, Volume 27 ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 [Deb Messling ] Herbie on TV ["Barbara Stewart" ] JM in Galway ["Barbara Stewart" ] A Catered Affair [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 [Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: SV: Retro Joni Covers, Volume 27 Hi Bob, it got a hit from me, and I am not a fan of covers (though I do appreciate your enthusiasm for them!). I don't usually download them but this time I could not resist, seeing that there were two Swedish covers with the lyrics in Swedish. I was curious about how they had managed to translate Joni4s lyrics which I imagine must be very difficult indeed. And so it appears. Lill Lindfors' version of Carey has virtually nothing to do with Joni's song, lyricwise. Lill sings about a girl who has recovered from loneliness and having been left by her boyfriend and who is now inviting "you" to come and dance with "me". Completely misses the meaning of Carey. Turids version of I had a king is closer as far as the lyrics go but a lot of meaning is lost anyway. She perfoms the song beautifully, though, imo. I also listened to Hanne Boel, Denmarks queen of soul, and her version of How do you stop. Great cover, that one! When were these covers made? A question that pops up in my mind when listening to the Swedish lyrics is about what you are allowed to do when you cover a song? Can you just take the music and put completely different lyrics to it, like the Lill Lindfors cover? What is the difference between a cover and a simple ripoff? I hope Bob or anyone can answer these questions, I would really like to know. Have a good day, Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Bob Muller Skickat: den 17 juni 2008 01:19 Till: JMDL Dmne: Retro Joni Covers, Volume 27 I'm sure that this won't get as many hits as the "Early Joni" collection but still...it's time for me to post another blast from Joni Covers past - here's Volume 27: http://tinyurl.com/5zmq6v Containing the following: 1. Nick DeCaro - All I Want 2. Catfish Hodge - For Free 3. Don Randi - Both Sides Now 4. Percy Faith - Big Yellow Taxi 5. Roger Cardwell - The Circle Game 6. Lill Lindfors - Gladigen (Carey / Swedish) 7. Barry Miles - Woodstock 8. Jimmy Winchell - Free Man In Paris 9. Turid - Jag Vet En Prins (I Had A King / Swedish) 10. Ray Charles Singers - Both Sides Now 11. Leslie Ritter & Scott Petito - Woodstock 12. Ken Watters Group - Both Sides Now 13. Peter White - River 14. Hanne Boel - How Do You Stop 15. Bernie Steinberg/Tina Malia - The Circle Game 16. Davy Graham - Both Sides Now A very international grouping, this one... Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "Too Tough" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:59:06 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 Jimmy, I'm thinking that she's primarily a 'words first' songwriter. I seem to recall in her many discussions of Magdalene Laundries that she composed the music first which was not her typical modus operandi. I could be wrong. Bob NP: Elvis, "God Give Me Strength" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:09:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: SV: Retro Joni Covers, Volume 27 Hi Marion, and thanks for your interest. Re-running these older volumes really brings back memories for me, that's for sure. To answer your question concerning dates: Lill Lindfor's cover/re-imagining of "Carey" is from 1984 Turid's "I Had A King" is from 1973 Hanne Boel's "How Can You Stop" is from 1998 As far as your question about changing the words and calling it a cover, it's a good question and I know next to nothing about copyright laws. There are certainly many cases of artists doing major word switches though, from Weird Al Yankovic (and he had to get permission to do all of his parodies) to George Harrison (who got caught putting his own text to "He's So Fine"). I would imagine that it's a particularly difficult task to re-cast a song in another language and probably fairly common that lyrically they tend to spin in other directions, making key words rhyme and scanning the original melody properly. Thanks for the insights into the translations - I always enjoy hearing Joni's songs sung in a foreign tongue even when I'm clueless as to what is being said. And yes Jerry, that includes all of the WONDERFUL Asian covers of BSN & TCG. Bob NP: Joni, "Sweet Sucker Dance" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:00:42 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 Thanks Bob, after a hundred years, I finally ask a Joni question. I would have been disappointed if nobody attempted to answer it. LOL In a message dated 6/17/2008 8:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@Fluor.com writes: > > > Jimmy, I'm thinking that she's primarily a 'words first' songwriter. I seem > to recall in her many discussions of Magdalene Laundries that she composed > the music first which was not her typical modus operandi. I could be wrong. > > ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:35:33 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 You're welcome, Jimmy - it's perfectly OK to discuss Joni Mitchell in this forum, just PLEASE be sure to exclude the NJC in your subject line. Bob NP: Aerosmith, "One Way Street" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 22:21:50 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni at Galway Hey there Anita, How are you doing? I'm not sure if anyone responded to your post as i'm on digest and usually about a day behind. The Galway Arts Festival runs fduring July and this year Joni's visual art will be displayed. Her Green Flag Song show will be on display each day during the festival. I contacted the festival box office and they said that Joni is not yet confirmed herself and that if she attends, they are likely to find out at the last minute. They recommended contactnig them again about a week in advance. I was also wondering how one might go about getting tickets to the opening of the show. I imagine that if Joni is present it will be at that point. I dunno. Well, that's about as much as i know. GARRET Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:10:42 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Joni at Galway Can anyone let me know about this Joni in Galway thing? Have been body boarding for a few days (got so sun burned despite all my sun block and, as I walked down to cliffs carrying my board and in my wet suit someone said 'Ah, a genuine silver surfer'). Followed the link given, but the page has expired - but should I be booking a flight? Anita ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:38:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 Well, not to disagree with Bob, but I do believe she has frequently talked about writing the music first, then setting words to it. She says the music will demand a certain kind of lyric, for example she might need something very simple and declarative, or she might even need a certain vowel sound. I can't quickly dig up all the citations, but I'm sure she's talked about this a lot, and it's fascinating. A few quick quotes: One interview: Why write the "hard way"? Why not do the words first? It's not that I'm perverse and trying to make things difficult, but it sets up a more original rhyme scheme when you have to match the words to the music. That way you don't recycle old melodies, which is probably why my music is not more popular (laughs). Then another interview: It may be a surprise, but Mitchell says that she writes her music first and then her lyrics. "It's a harder puzzle," Mitchell admits. "It's like you do the score and then do the movie. But by the score you know where your climatic statements fall and where your descriptive passages can go. And you get a more unusual rhyme scheme." - ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:00:42 EDT >From: FMYFL@aol.com >Subject: Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 >To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com >Cc: joni@smoe.org > >Thanks Bob, after a hundred years, I finally ask a Joni question. I would >have been disappointed if nobody attempted to answer it. LOL > >In a message dated 6/17/2008 8:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Bob.Muller@Fluor.com writes: > >> >> >> Jimmy, I'm thinking that she's primarily a 'words first' songwriter. I seem >> to recall in her many discussions of Magdalene Laundries that she composed >> the music first which was not her typical modus operandi. I could be wrong. >> >> > > > > >************** >Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for >fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) Deb Messling http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:20:22 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Herbie on TV Herbie Hancock and Kate Nash to appear on "Live from Abbey Road" on Sundance Channel June 26 10pm Eastern. B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:29:30 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: JM in Galway Organizers confirm that she will appear to support her art show at the Galway Arts Festival July 14-27. See http://www.galwayartsfestival.com/ Also there? Blondie!!!!!! ;-) KT Tunstall, Phillip Glass, Druid Theatre, etc. Tempting, very tempting...... B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:32:15 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: A Catered Affair From Michael Musto's column this week in the Village Voice: "A Catered Affair composer John Bucchino told me I'm no moron in spotting echoes of Joni Mitchell in his ethereal score: She's one of his biggest influences." Not coincidentally, John has long been one of Judy Collins' favorite song writers and recorded a cut on his splendid Grateful cd. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:33:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 Yes, that's what I had thought too--music first typically and then the words. However, I would disagree with both Joni and the interviewer on their sentiments on what is the more difficult way to write. I think writing the words first would be more difficult because then you have to put the music around that. In my opinion, music isn't like that. In my personal experience, I always write music first and have found most musicians I run into tend to write music first. Now I've come across singers who write just lyrics (and wait around for a guitarist to put them to words) but that is a different story. I bet many people would assume Joni writes words first given her way with them. -Monika Deb Messling wrote: Well, not to disagree with Bob, but I do believe she has frequently talked about writing the music first, then setting words to it. She says the music will demand a certain kind of lyric, for example she might need something very simple and declarative, or she might even need a certain vowel sound. I can't quickly dig up all the citations, but I'm sure she's talked about this a lot, and it's fascinating. A few quick quotes: One interview: Why write the "hard way"? Why not do the words first? It's not that I'm perverse and trying to make things difficult, but it sets up a more original rhyme scheme when you have to match the words to the music. That way you don't recycle old melodies, which is probably why my music is not more popular (laughs). Then another interview: It may be a surprise, but Mitchell says that she writes her music first and then her lyrics. "It's a harder puzzle," Mitchell admits. "It's like you do the score and then do the movie. But by the score you know where your climatic statements fall and where your descriptive passages can go. And you get a more unusual rhyme scheme." - ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:00:42 EDT >From: FMYFL@aol.com >Subject: Re: Early Joni, 1966-1968 Disc 2 >To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com >Cc: joni@smoe.org > >Thanks Bob, after a hundred years, I finally ask a Joni question. I would >have been disappointed if nobody attempted to answer it. LOL > >In a message dated 6/17/2008 8:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Bob.Muller@Fluor.com writes: > >> >> >> Jimmy, I'm thinking that she's primarily a 'words first' songwriter. I seem >> to recall in her many discussions of Magdalene Laundries that she composed >> the music first which was not her typical modus operandi. I could be wrong. >> >> > > > > >************** >Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for >fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) Deb Messling http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #81 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe