From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #48 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, May 16 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 048 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and US registry ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Joni and US registry [Brian Gross ] Re: Joni and US registry ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: Ladies Of The Canyon/Roses Blue [Jeannie ] SJC I've missed my joni people [KEVIN DOHENY ] Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them [Jeannie ] Re: Joni and US registry [Monika Bogdanowicz ] "Girls Like Us" author answers questions on her blog ["T Peckham" ] Re: Joni and US registry ["Mark Scott" ] Re: "Girls Like Us" author answers questions on her blog ["Mark Angelo" <] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #47 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: Joni and US registry ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: "Girls Like Us" author answers questions on her blog ["Mark Angelo" <] Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them ["Mark Angelo" ] Re: FW: Message from website ["Mark Angelo" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 05:40:05 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Joni and US registry Part of your URL got cut off, Kate http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2008/05/14/08us-recregistry.html What a nice honor for Joni and a lot of people's favorite album (it actually is *not* Blue). Mark in Seattle - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:19 PM Subject: Joni and US registry > http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2008/05/14/08us-recregistry > > > Thriller, Joni Mitchell album make the cut for U.S. recording > registry > > > > http://xoetc.antville.org > Who Does She Think She Is? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 06:30:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni and US registry - --- On Thu, 5/15/08, Mark Scott wrote: > Subject: Re: Joni and US registry > Part of your URL got cut off, Kate > > http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2008/05/14/08us-recregistry.html > > What a nice honor for Joni and a lot of people's > favorite album (it > actually is *not* Blue). Yes, but it *IS* part of the FIRST HOLY TRINITY (Blue, FTR and C&S) Brian - ----------------------------------------------------------- Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often. And usually for the same reasons. - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 12:12:21 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and US registry Amazing. I always love to read about Joni's works being recognized finally for what all of us have known for what seems forever. Even though the recording industry doesn't seem to have any input (thank god!) as to what is archived, it does seem all the more delightful that FTR was chosen to be part of the recording registry when the title song was actually Joni's first farewell and one of many critiques of the recording industry for which she has such disdain. Little Green (Blue) hints at it in the lyrics "I'm gonnna make a lot of money and I'm gonna quit this crazy scene" but FTR was the first full-scale condemnation which would become less and less subtle (trying to put it nicely here) over time. Mark in Florida. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Brian Gross wrote: > --- On Thu, 5/15/08, Mark Scott wrote: > > > Subject: Re: Joni and US registry > > Part of your URL got cut off, Kate > > > > http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2008/05/14/08us-recregistry.html > > > > What a nice honor for Joni and a lot of people's > > favorite album (it > > actually is *not* Blue). > > Yes, but it *IS* part of the FIRST HOLY TRINITY (Blue, FTR and C&S) > > Brian > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often. > And usually for the same reasons. > ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:45:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: Ladies Of The Canyon/Roses Blue Since we're on the subject of ladies that Joni was once part of a group with, can anyone tell me who the woman in 'Roses Blue' is about? I'm curious to know if she was one of the Canyon Ladies, who just took a wrong spiritual turn. Jeannie ~nj~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: Those "Brownies" / Pizza now Since a deliciously made and mouthwatering pizza dinner was mentioned, I want to ask a question. One of our JMDLers mentioned Joni was dating a restaurateur in the Pizzeria business the other day. Is this true? If it is, I have another line to chalk up for synchronicity. Truly, Jeannie PassScribe@aol.com wrote: Hah! No, I didn't add anything to my post regarding dinner (although Ro & I had this great pizza this afternoon, at Nick's in Forest Hills, with Bufala milk mozzerella, imported tomato sauce and basil leaves...we ate the whole thing! But I degress...) The addition at the end of my post must have been attached through AOL. Kenny B ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ~nj~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 10:06:34 -0700 (PDT) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: SJC I've missed my joni people I've recieved a few "where are you? emails"..All is fine I havent had a computer for 2 months...I must say I really missed my joni peeps..There were many times I wished I could turn to you all, but alas here I am..Listening to my "joni/then" playlist...np the Gallery so lovely and wonderful..powerful and heartbreaking...Sending huggs all around.. Kev ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:40:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them I really don't get guys like James Taylor, Jackson Browne, or my ex-husband when it comes to relationships with women. It's evident to all around who actually get to know these guys on a deeper level, the reality of these seemingly sweet guys who take on that puppy-sch-mucky sweet face look, aren't all that that they seem to exude with their talents, "cute" faces and pretty smiles which can captivate, especially with women. I don't want to come off as harsh, but I actually began to see my son's father as the epitome of a "wolf dressed in sheep's clothing." Every couple deals with their own trials and tribulations, both sides to blame, but one or the other are incomprehensible, when they fail to get beyond themselves in a relationship, women included, even as time glides on and they don't change. Well, I think every woman who ever saw his face and saw Jackson Browne perform fell in love with him. I saw him, Scott Thurston and band perform and I became one of 'em. I fell more for Scott Thurston though :) Well, Jackson's lost his good looks, BUT Todd Rundgren hasn't. I had never even known anything else from him other than some mental hums off the radio. Laura, for some reason, out of the blue and cumulus clouds posted some links for Rundgren and, man, that guy still has it. I had never seen him perform live or on camera. He's gotten better with time and age and Taylor and Browne have nothing over him. Too bad I never really paid attention to him in the 70's because I thought he was just another poker chip from the top 40 star-maker machinery. I hope he's a kind and humble guy. I don't know..I just hope so. He's so darn cute and super-talented but I won't ever get fooled again by any man. Se acabo por fin, la tonteria de mierda de la mentira. Jeannie Mark Scott wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Carly Simon didn't find it easy reading "Girls Like Us" > Taylor does not keep in contact with his former wife and made no > mention of their years together in his autobiographical "One Man > Band" show released as a CD-DVD last year. > > "I'm so erased, so erased," said Simon. "I don't think James has > forgotten in any way. If he had forgotten, he wouldn't be behaving > in the way he is." Personally, I don't get this. Taylor comes off on stage as such a puppy-dog these days. And yet he can completely ignore the existence of the mother of 2 of his children? Nope. I don't get it. Oddly enough I was listening to Carly's 'Hotcakes' today. I know people have often said that 'Wild Things Run Fast' is a love-happy Joni Mitchell record but 'Hotcakes' beats it hands down for a love-happy album. Carly is preggers and radiant on the cover and there is even a song co-written with James called 'Forever My Love'. Sound sappy and saccharine? I was thoroughly enjoying re-visiting it today and I cranked 'Haven't Got Time For the Pain' when it played and even repeated it. It got me to re-evaluating Carly's singing a bit. I know that Kate Bennett and others have commented that her pitch hasn't always been perfect. Kate, I'm not a professional singer but I have to admit you may be right. And I have to agree with Randy Remote in his assessment of Carly's performance on Leno last Friday night. Something's gone wrong. She can't seem to sustain a pitch at the end of a phrase much at all anymore. I did buy 'Into White' and was more struck by a lack of passion in her singing more than it's being really bad. I wonder if her battle with cancer took something out of her? Or maybe it's just age. 'Haven't Got Time For the Pain' and 'Grownup' in particular reminded me of what made me love her so much. Maybe she was never pitch-perfect but her voice is still distinctive - if you heard the Leno performance you would know who it was - and she could deliver an emotional wallop when called upon to do so. Plus, I still say she is a great writer of intelligent, adult pop songs. No Joni, by any stretch, but then Joni pushed beyond pop a long time ago and, imo, literally created her own genre. But for what Carly did in her heyday, she was top-notch. I can't help but suspect that James Taylor is at least a bit of an asshole. What gets me is that he has appeared on at least a couple of Joni's albums and even sang 'River' on the TNT Tribute, acknowledging her as 'Joan the bone on the throne where she belong'. But he has 'erased' the mother of his children! 'Once upon a time you said you'd love me Til the end of the world Now nowhere is far enough away from you I must be quite a girl Quite the girl' - -Carly Simon - 'Halfway 'Round the World' from 1994's 'Letters Never Sent' 'There's a husky voice That speaks to me in the dark And on the phone from studios and westside bars Through tunnels of long distance He says: We're beyond flowers He says: We're beyond compliments We're so close we dispense with love We don't need love at all. - -Carly Simon - 'We're So Close' from 1979's 'Spy' Mark in Seattle ~nj~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 15:31:05 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: Re: Ladies Of The Canyon/Roses Blue My guess would be Judee Sill. (But it's only a guess.) Terra On 5/15/08, Jeannie wrote: > > Since we're on the subject of ladies that Joni was once part of a group > with, can anyone tell me who the woman in 'Roses Blue' is about? > > I'm curious to know if she was one of the Canyon Ladies, who just took a > wrong spiritual turn. > > Jeannie > > > > > > > ~nj~ > - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:14:30 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: Joni at Luminato Festival Joni's work will be featured at the Luminato Festival this summer in Toronto. http://www.luminato.com/festival/eng/index.php Both the Green Flag Song art exhibit: http://www.luminato.com/festival/eng/events/ID21/index.php .and the ballet Fiddle and the Drum http://www.luminato.com/festival/eng/events/ID37/index.php will be on tap at the festival. The Ballet will be performed most days from June 13th through June 22nd - tickets are available on-line: http://www.ticketmaster.ca/artist/1210750 Green Flag Song is a free exhibit available for viewing each and every day of the festival. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 16:57:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni and US registry Interesting choice. Great album of course but it leads me to a question we will never have an answer for (I mean who to ask anyway?). I wonder on what basis they choose the albums that they do? I wonder why, out of all of Joni's albums, was FTR chosen? I'm not diminishing its significance (love it, it's in my top 5 favorite albums, maybe top 3 even depending on my mood), I'm just curious. Good stuff though. Recognition is generally a good thing.... -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 19:07:55 -0500 From: "T Peckham" Subject: "Girls Like Us" author answers questions on her blog Hi. I've been lurking for awhile, still new to posting here. :-) Just wanted to draw some attention to Sheila Weller's GLU website and blog (I think I might have mentioned it before?) She's inviting questions and comments and has responded to both. Kinda cool! Terra http://girlslikeus.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/when-do-we-not-want-to-know-or-tell/ - -- Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:22:28 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and US registry I wonder as well Monika. I mean if they picked "Thriller"... which I have never bought, nor any MJ album for that matter, it seems to me the logical choice would have been C&S, her most commercially successful and should-have-been Grammy winner album of the year I like to think, it does seem surprising they would choose FTR which has merits all of it's own in a very different way. However, browsing the 25 works selected, they seem be a very eclectic assortment of artists and genres and in that sense FTR does seem quite at home on the list. Mark. (In Florida) On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:57 PM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > Interesting choice. Great album of course but it leads me to a question > we will never have an answer for (I mean who to ask anyway?). I wonder on > what basis they choose the albums that they do? I wonder why, out of all of > Joni's albums, was FTR chosen? I'm not diminishing its significance (love > it, it's in my top 5 favorite albums, maybe top 3 even depending on my > mood), I'm just curious. Good stuff though. Recognition is generally a > good thing.... > -Monika ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:39:36 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Joni and US registry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Angelo" > Little Green (Blue) hints at it in the lyrics "I'm gonnna make a lot > of > money and I'm gonna quit this crazy scene" That would be 'River' you quoted from. But then you know that, of course you know that! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:44:50 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: "Girls Like Us" author answers questions on her blog Thanks for the link Terra. I just know I will be a lurker for loooooooong time when I visit that site...but I haven't read the book and I am kind of dying to know if FTR was composed during the time when Joni was romantically involved with Jackson Browne and the tragic fallout that was to come of that relationship, why are most of the songs dealing with romance on FTR about James Taylor? And "Car On A Hill" does make sense to me in regards to the conditions that preceded her alleged attempt on her life now that Bob filled in detail about the song from the book, but why no reference to what must have been such a significant person in her life, except for the song "No Apologies" which is widely regarded to be written about Jackson Browne and referencing the Darryl Hannah episode, and the earlier suicide of his model/actress wife Phyllis, whom he abandoned Joni for? Apparently Jackson referred to Joni as "disturbed" after the song came out on TI, and Joni presently denies he is central to the song, but seeing that she now views (to paraphrase) "being angry and shaming and blaming to be perhaps the greatest evil" in 2007 it makes sense that she would just want to drop the matter as if you research it, which I tried doing, it gets into a tangled mess with Hannah's uncle making accusitory statements, JFK saying that she was prone (Hannah) to embellishment, basically he said/she said and no one will know the absolute truths except for those involved. However, where there is smoke there is fire and obviously things of consequence happened that deeply affect the parties involved til this day. I know it is kind of close to the level of gossip (which obviously I refrain from no matter what) hrmph! - but I just don't get the non-references in FTR or simply one in C&S if this was such an emotionally charged romance. Somebody ask for me!!!!!!! Mark. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:07 PM, T Peckham wrote: > Hi. I've been lurking for awhile, still new to posting here. :-) Just > wanted to draw some attention to Sheila Weller's GLU website and blog (I > think I might have mentioned it before?) She's inviting questions and > comments and has responded to both. Kinda cool! > > Terra > > > http://girlslikeus.wordpress.com/2008/04/18/when-do-we-not-want-to-know-or-tell/ > > -- > Note to any and all govt. agencies who might be looking in: You can kiss my > sweet ass. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:38:49 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #47 A while ago someone on this list sent me a copy of a Joni photo - black and white. It was a silloutte of a young Joni. I cannot locate the photo and wondering if I could trouble that kind person to resend the photo. I'd be very appreciaitve and promise not to lose it again. **************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 20:49:47 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and US registry oops- I stand corrected...*blush* Thanks! Mark in Florida ...wishing he had a river he could skate away on right about now ;-) On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Mark Scott wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Angelo" > >> Little Green (Blue) hints at it in the lyrics "I'm gonnna make a lot of >> money and I'm gonna quit this crazy scene" >> > > That would be 'River' you quoted from. > > But then you know that, of course you know that! > > Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:01:04 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: "Girls Like Us" author answers questions on her blog That should be the song "Not To Blame" (TI) ... I always get it confused with "No Apologies" I think because of the song title. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Mark Angelo wrote: > why no reference to what must have been such a significant person in her > life, except for the song "No Apologies" which is widely regarded to be > written about Jackson Browne and referencing the Darryl Hannah episode, and > the earlier suicide of his model/actress wife Phyllis, whom he abandoned > Joni for? Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:18:30 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them No les gustan mas los muchachos guapos pero tambien mentirosos? I think not from your last statement. You like roses and kisses and pretty men to tell you All those pretty lies, pretty lies When you gonna realize they're only pretty lies Only pretty lies, just pretty lies (TLTISR-Blue) One does seem to follow the other, almost of necessity perhaps. Mark in Florida. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Jeannie wrote: > I really don't get guys like James Taylor, Jackson Browne, or my ex-husband > when it comes to relationships with women. > > It's evident to all around who actually get to know these guys on a deeper > level, the reality of these seemingly sweet guys who take on that > puppy-sch-mucky sweet face look, aren't all that that they seem to exude > with their talents, "cute" faces and pretty smiles which can captivate, > especially with women. > > I don't want to come off as harsh, but I actually began to see my son's > father as the epitome of a "wolf dressed in sheep's clothing." > > Every couple deals with their own trials and tribulations, both sides to > blame, but one or the other are incomprehensible, when they fail to get > beyond themselves in a relationship, women included, even as time glides on > and they don't change. > > Well, I think every woman who ever saw his face and saw Jackson Browne > perform fell in love with him. I saw him, Scott Thurston and band perform > and I became one of 'em. I fell more for Scott Thurston though :) > > Well, Jackson's lost his good looks, BUT Todd Rundgren hasn't. I had never > even known anything else from him other than some mental hums off the radio. > > Laura, for some reason, out of the blue and cumulus clouds posted some > links for Rundgren and, man, that guy still has it. I had never seen him > perform live or on camera. > > He's gotten better with time and age and Taylor and Browne have nothing > over him. > > Too bad I never really paid attention to him in the 70's because I thought > he was just another poker chip from the top 40 star-maker machinery. > > I hope he's a kind and humble guy. I don't know..I just hope so. He's so > darn cute and super-talented but I won't ever get fooled again by any man. > > Se acabo por fin, la tonteria de mierda de la mentira. > > Jeannie > > > > Mark Scott wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:18 AM > Subject: Carly Simon didn't find it easy reading "Girls Like Us" > > > > Taylor does not keep in contact with his former wife and made no > > mention of their years together in his autobiographical "One Man > > Band" show released as a CD-DVD last year. > > > > "I'm so erased, so erased," said Simon. "I don't think James has > > forgotten in any way. If he had forgotten, he wouldn't be behaving > > in the way he is." > > > Personally, I don't get this. Taylor comes off on stage as such a > puppy-dog these days. And yet he can completely ignore the existence > of the mother of 2 of his children? Nope. I don't get it. > > Oddly enough I was listening to Carly's 'Hotcakes' today. I know > people have often said that 'Wild Things Run Fast' is a love-happy > Joni Mitchell record but 'Hotcakes' beats it hands down for a > love-happy album. Carly is preggers and radiant on the cover and > there is even a song co-written with James called 'Forever My Love'. > > Sound sappy and saccharine? I was thoroughly enjoying re-visiting it > today and I cranked 'Haven't Got Time For the Pain' when it played and > even repeated it. It got me to re-evaluating Carly's singing a bit. > I know that Kate Bennett and others have commented that her pitch > hasn't always been perfect. Kate, I'm not a professional singer but I > have to admit you may be right. And I have to agree with Randy Remote > in his assessment of Carly's performance on Leno last Friday night. > Something's gone wrong. She can't seem to sustain a pitch at the end > of a phrase much at all anymore. I did buy 'Into White' and was more > struck by a lack of passion in her singing more than it's being really > bad. I wonder if her battle with cancer took something out of her? > Or maybe it's just age. > > 'Haven't Got Time For the Pain' and 'Grownup' in particular reminded > me of what made me love her so much. Maybe she was never > pitch-perfect but her voice is still distinctive - if you heard the > Leno performance you would know who it was - and she could deliver an > emotional wallop when called upon to do so. Plus, I still say she is > a great writer of intelligent, adult pop songs. No Joni, by any > stretch, but then Joni pushed beyond pop a long time ago and, imo, > literally created her own genre. But for what Carly did in her > heyday, she was top-notch. > > I can't help but suspect that James Taylor is at least a bit of an > asshole. What gets me is that he has appeared on at least a couple of > Joni's albums and even sang 'River' on the TNT Tribute, acknowledging > her as 'Joan the bone on the throne where she belong'. > > But he has 'erased' the mother of his children! > > 'Once upon a time you said you'd love me > Til the end of the world > Now nowhere is far enough away from you > I must be quite a girl > Quite the girl' > > -Carly Simon - 'Halfway 'Round the World' from 1994's 'Letters Never > Sent' > > 'There's a husky voice > That speaks to me in the dark > And on the phone from studios and westside bars > Through tunnels of long distance > He says: We're beyond flowers > He says: We're beyond compliments > We're so close we dispense with love > We don't need love at all. > > -Carly Simon - 'We're So Close' from 1979's 'Spy' > > Mark in Seattle > > > > > > > > ~nj~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 18:52:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them You have to remember that when you first meet someone, the both of you are on your "best behavior" for a while. You are in a state of trying to "woo" the other person. The flaws and irritations of whoever you are dating come later. Nobody exposes all their hangups in the beginning. If they did, I bet their wouldn't be too many dates afterwards! Afterall, you have to get to know that person and accept him or her--imperfections and all. As for James Taylor and Jackson Browne, I could easily understand Joni's interest in them. Both were fairly attractive guys (Jackson moreso than James in my opinion) who were not only in the same field as Joni but also displayed a sensitivity and intensity in their work similar to Joni. Not to mention the fact they were both part of the Cali rock scene and friends with Joni's friends. It was almost inevitable in a way. The three of them (Joni, Jackson, and James) were all young, attractive, talented, looking for romance, etc etc. Now if Jackson and James were "wolves in sheeps' clothing" Joni would have found that out later. Perhaps late enough in the game where she already had fallen for them. You see girls all the time dating the wrong guy for them (even dangerous guys who abuse them physically or verbally). And what is always their reason for staying? Because of "love" or more or less the illusion of love. Now I'm not dissing Joni for being with those two men (I'm sure they had their good times) or for any woman being with a "bad" guy but it happens. And as for guys like that, well, I can't speak for them. -Monika Jeannie wrote: I really don't get guys like James Taylor, Jackson Browne, or my ex-husband when it comes to relationships with women. It's evident to all around who actually get to know these guys on a deeper level, the reality of these seemingly sweet guys who take on that puppy-sch-mucky sweet face look, aren't all that that they seem to exude with their talents, "cute" faces and pretty smiles which can captivate, especially with women. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 23:29:34 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Carly Simon/"Girls Like Us"/guys like them Well stated. I can't add much other than it seems to me that many people stay in abusive relationships for the reason you stated, hanging onto that illusion, or how their initial perceptions were, thinking they can somehow "change" the other person and actively denying or rationalizing what subsequent realities are in point of fact telling them. A low self-esteem or relative isolation will only make this tendency to place yourself and remain in an abusive situation that much greater. I think the reason you see girls/guys with others who are obviously wrong for them often goes far back to their upbringing and their parents. It seems that with whatever deficiencies one encountered with one or both parents, many will go through much or most of their lives re-enacting that situation with which they are comfortable and familiar, and most likely subconsciously try in futility to gain acceptance from that "proxy" parent who is their partner who they ultimately find they are still unable to "fix". I know this is very Freudian, but I firmly believe it is played out by countless people. The "court and spark" phase you refer to is almost irrational, and the many attempts by countless songwriters to describe and define "love" is witness to this initial near-irrationality. Joni's BSN CD describes this "arc of love" through the positioning of her two songs (ACOU which is positioned midway and speaks to the "addiction" phase, and finally BSN where she reflects that love and indeed life are meaningful in the context of the illusion which we ourselves create in our individual frameworks which at that particular moment in time were our "reality". Time is the only healer... The covers interspersed between the songs speak to the other phases,"disillusionment" etc.. of the relationship. "Stay in Touch" (TTT) is written as far as I can tell about that initial "best behavior" phase of being reunited with her daughter, and is one of the best songs I can think of that addresses this initial near-infatuation state from an experienced perspective: This is really something > People will be envious > But our roles aren't clear > So we musn't rush > Still, we're burning brightly > Clinging like fire to fuel > I'm grinning like a fool Stay in touch > > So we must be loyal and wary > Not to give away too much > Til we build a firm foundation Anyhow, yeah I can also plainly see the reasons for the Joni/James/Jackson attractions and subsequent romances. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:52 PM, Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: > You have to remember that when you first meet someone, the both of you are > on your "best behavior" for a while. You are in a state of trying to "woo" > the other person. The flaws and irritations of whoever you are dating come > later. Nobody exposes all their hangups in the beginning. If they did, I > bet their wouldn't be too many dates afterwards! Afterall, you have to get > to know that person and accept him or her--imperfections and all. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 22:00:30 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: FW: Message from website Anyone want to pitch in? - -----Original Message----- Hi! I am from Venezuela in South America, I am studing culture of United State at university,and I have to write an essay about the "Big Yellow Taxi" song and its impact. I would like to know more about the meaning and porpouse of the song. Do you have any web site or information that could help me? By the way my 11 years old dauther and I love The song. Thank you very much. Name: Jorge A. Lopez-Brandt email: jorgebrandt@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 01:34:58 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: FW: Message from website Okay here's my two cents (opinion): "Big Yellow Taxi" was a simple ditty written by Joni Mitchell and probably is up there with her best known songs, if not the best known. Joni would much rather be remembered for more complex musics and lyrics she subsequently wrote, but this was a simple song with a catchy melody and it's words, though lacking in metaphors and symbolic complexity, speak a truth which is so prescient and fundamental that they are timeless and unforgettable. There are probably countless references to the song on the internet, but here is one I found in the New York Times: It antagonizes her no end that the songs that have made her famous -- most > notably ''Big Yellow Taxi'' -- are her least complex and innovative ones. > ' 'Big Yellow Taxi' is nice,'' she says. ''It's like Chuck Berry kind of > skipping rope. It's a good little workhorse of a song and it's got some > content. But it's a nursery rhyme. Of all the creations that are there, if > you reduce it to this thing, it's a tragedy. I fall into the category as I have said before of not being able to listen to the song any longer as I have heard it *far* too many times, but there will come a time when I will be able to, as I love all of Joni's music. First off, it envisions "our man-made world backfiring" by the relentless need for Big Business to continually achieve ever greater profits by omitting nature as part of man's made economic policies which have no means of assigning fiat values to species or the natural world and views these things as "externalities" which are not part of man's economic equation. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot > With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swinging hot spot > It foretold of disappearing species (I have read anywhere from 47-50 per day over the past several decades to a current high number of roughly 200 per day extinct because of Western paradigm "progress". We have succeeded in recreating virtual everythings, and in the process to distance ourself from nature have eliminated much of the reality. They put all the trees and put 'em in a tree museum And they charged all the > people a dollar and a half (an arm and a leg adjusted for inflation) just to > see 'em. > And in the way that Rachel Carson's Silent Spring foretold of the deleterious effects that chemicals and particularly pesticide would have on our natural world - and that does include us, Homo sapiens, she also forewarned of the poisoning and the consequent plummeting numbers of birds and bees (colony collapse disorder) and by extension all species as they all share common biological ancestry. Hey farmer, farmer put away that DDT now It may spoil some apples but leave me the birds and the bees.....please.... And finally, Joni succeeds in tying in the personal, lamenting a fallout of a romantic relationship, and the political in her closing lines: Late last night > I heard the screen door slam > And a big yellow taxi came and took away my old man > Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone They paved paradise, put up a parking lot. Just as we often never realize the significance of another, a pet, our climate, the luxuries we think are "necessities" that are not available to the masses in 3rd world countries, and take these things for granted until they are gone, so it is with the natural world from whence we came and which we have now and continue to try to "conquer", rationalizing it with religious myths, our own arrogance, basically whatever it takes as Homo sapiens excels at one thing better than any other creature thanks to his frontal lobe, and that is self-deception. And that self-deception may very well lead to his own extinction. Speaking from a non-anthropocentric view, the planet is at "red alert" and if truth be told, "we cover you (the Earth) like a plague". Any species that has grown to such unsustainable numbers and explodes exponentially to 6.6 million, adding 50 million a day, must like yeast in a petri dish, outstrip finite resources to consume and will implode on itself catastrophically. With Homo sapiens, this can be traced directly back to the introduction of cheap, non-renewable fossil fuels. So essentially it was an indictment of the excesses of American Culture, and for that matter of Western Culture. You can always build yet another SuperWalMart, but you can never bring back the countless species who are part of this ongoing 6th Mass Extinction - also known as the Biodiversity Holocaust - brought about by one species alone. And for all the technical marvels of Science, "with it's tunnel vision", it cannot even begin to create life on it's own, much less resurrect the species forever lost largely at it's hands. Not something you're likely to read in the Main Stream Media as it is counter to their own self-serving corporate interests and our Shopping Mall Regime, but my humble take. Regards, Mark in Florida. On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 12:00 AM, Les Irvin wrote: > Anyone want to pitch in? > > -----Original Message----- > Hi! I am from Venezuela in South America, I am studing culture of United > State at university,and I have to write an essay about the "Big Yellow Taxi" > song and its impact. I would like to know more about the meaning and > porpouse of the song. Do you have any web site or information that could > help me? By the way my 11 years old dauther and I love The song. Thank you > very much. > > Name: Jorge A. Lopez-Brandt > email: jorgebrandt@yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #48 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe