From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #33 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, May 1 2008 Volume 2008 : Number 033 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and birds ["Samuel Jeronimo" ] Re: Night of the iguana ["Samuel Jeronimo" ] Re: Joni mention in my newspaper ["Samuel Jeronimo" ] Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? [Monika Bogdanowicz ] "Girls Like Us" author on "Morning Joe" on MSNBC ["Dan Olson" ] Re: SJC Timeless [Jeannie ] Joe Jackson sings Joni & Todd show [PassScribe@aol.com] Girls Like Us ["Randy Remote" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:13:49 +0100 From: "Samuel Jeronimo" Subject: Re: Joni and birds Mark Angelo wrote: +You are the second or maybe third poster whose favorite album is FTR. My first purchase was C&S, naturally I know it by heart, but rarely play it these days. FTR is up there among her best, I wonder if so many like it because it was the last heavily piano-dominated album until...Shine I believe. If I had to pick my favorite I think it would be Hejira, I love the guitar tunings and the lyrics.; - - Hi Mark, FTR is my fave too, as I love the piano melodies in it. And guess what, C&S was also my first purchase :-) Cumprimentos a todos, Samuel NP: The Blue Nile, "A Walk Across the Rooftops" Reading: Fisdor Dostoiivski, "Zapmski Iz Podpslia" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:15:50 +0100 From: "Samuel Jeronimo" Subject: Re: Night of the iguana Marion Leffler wrote: +[] This morning I was surfing the internet and stumbled upon a Swedish website, www.lastfm.se . They have several groups and you can create your own radio. There is a Joni group/discussion list with more than 300 members whose average age is 27. I was surprised to find so many young people, I had the impression that most of Joni's fans are at least middle-aged. So I was prejudiced and I'm glad I'm wrong! So Bene, Odd and others in the Scandinavian region, if you don't already know about this website, check it out! (Of course, anybody can but the language is Swedish).; - - Hi Marion, It's a national division of www.last.fm, a great website where you can discover lots of music. Samuel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:16:20 +0100 From: "Samuel Jeronimo" Subject: Re: Joni mention in my newspaper Bene > wrote: +For the listophiles among you: In connection with Tindersticks' new album, my newspaper made a 'short melancholic history of music' it contains: Nina Simone "Nina Simone sings the blues" 1966 Joni Mitchell "Blue" 1971 ("a melancholic miracle...") Morrissey "Viva Hate" 1988 Spain "The blue moods of Spain" Robert Forster "The Evangelist" 2008 Does anyone know the Forster album...? And what about Tindersticks "The hungry saw"? Bene; Hi Bene, Tindersticks were great on their first two records, much due to the coolness of Stuart Staples  the music was also great, though. He could also write some good lyrics. The National (2007's "Boxer" is a masterpiece) follow the same path, I think. Samuel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:16:46 +0100 From: "Samuel Jeronimo" Subject: Re: New York Times(4/27) review of "girls like us" anon > wrote: +Did anyone read the review of "girls like us" in yesterday's NYT book review? It was a generally very positive review... there was one statement I strongly disagreed with... The reviewer said that Carole King was the best songwriter of the three... I beg to differ... Noone even comes close to Joni in terms of being a superb singer/songwriter...; - - Hi, Carole King's work is more adaptable. Joni's work tends to only work well when sang by her ;-) Samuel NP: Robert Wyatt, "Ruth Is Stranger Than Richard" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:05:32 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? FTR was targeted to James Taylor, not to Jackson. If you haven't read it yet, I would recommend "Girls Like Us" - I finished it this weekend and it really helped to connect the dots and de-frag some of the factoids and rumors about Joni, her relationships, and her songs. As I have admitted, I just read the Joni parts, skipping over the Carly & Carole parts. I doubt that I will go back and read those sections as I don't have an interest in them as I do with Joni. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Christmas Card From A Hooker In Minneapolis" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:33:23 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? Not to disagree with Bob Muller, but I believe that the *song* For the Roses was written about Jackson Browne, although other songs on the album were written for James. As far as Girls Like Us, I really enjoyed it, but I think its sociological significance is being overplayed by both the author and the critics, because people don't want to admit they're reading something dishy solely for the dish. I have no pride and readily admit to reading anything for any reason. At 08:05 AM 4/30/2008, you wrote: >were written specifically about Jackson.> > >FTR was targeted to James Taylor, not to Jackson. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:37:58 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? Same for me...and that's primarily why I'm skipping the Carly/Carole bits. The Joni gossip interests me, that level of detail in the lives of the other two does not. If Ms. Weller dealt with the MUSIC, it might be a different story. And I don't say that as a criticism of the book as she never sets out to do any musical analysis. I got much more out of 'Girls Like Us' than I was expecting. And I was tickled that one of her acknowledgements was www.jmdl.com. Wonder if she read through the archives, or lurked, or just perused the library. Bob NP: Joni, "Nathan La Franeer" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:44:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? Yes, as mentioned, FTR was more about James Taylor though I've read somewhere (I can't remember where) claiming that parts of a Woman of Heart and Mind refer to Jackson Browne as well as James Taylor. Of course, that could be pure speculation as you can't believe everything you read. If you did (generally speaking not even just about Joni) you'd be a very confused individual who doesn't know what is true and what is not as contradictions exist in this world perhaps more than anything else. Now any person with a pen (or well a computer really) and a public outlet can write whatever they want and claim it as fact. So who knows? As far as the tidbit goes about Jackson and Joni, I still have yet to read "Girls Like Us" as well. I may buy it at the end of this week perhaps at Borders depending on what the price is there. Anyhow, I'm not really a fan of Jackson Browne's music but at the same time I never jumped right into it. I've heard a few songs and decided he has a nice voice but so far he doesn't do anything for me. One thing people as fans have to remember is that you can like the music but not the person. I think we are all bound to forget sometimes that these people writing these extraordinary songs of beauty displaying their sensitivity aren't necessarily as sensitive or ________ (fill in the blank with whatever positive word you choose) as you may think judging them solely on their songs. I mean, for example, you have tons of musicians writing about "love" and how they'd do anything for their girl while at the same time you read...about their various encounters with groupies....while they're married or involved with a woman already. There is some conflict between what someone writes and what someone does. Afterall, we are all only human. That's not denying someone's music or their own self expression through music but there can be a contradiction in there. As for Jackson Browne, he could very well be an asshole with some very serious issues while writing the songs that he does. I don't know. As for striking Joni, if it is true, that is a deal breaker. Any man who strikes a woman is out in my book (unless he realizes he has a problem and seeks out help for it). That is just sick. I remember one time seeing something that made me very sick to my stomach in high school. During my junior year while I was very, very tired of school I took a class at a vocational school (not because I was really interested in the class but because I wanted time away from the high school). One day before class, everyone was waiting in the cafeteria. I saw this girl go over to this guy, say something to him, and spill pop over his head. He got up and punched her in the face. He didn't hit her hard as she was still up when he punched her but that moment stays with me even to this day (I'm 23 now whereas I must have been 16 or 17 there). I remember feeling sick to my stomach that entire day wishing I hadn't seen that.... -Monika Mark Angelo wrote: As far as FTR, I know the songs, I'd be interesting in knowing which ones were written specifically about Jackson. "Where are you now, are you in some hotel room, does it have a view?" Anyways, I can see Joni thinking - here I've found a handsome man, perhaps a soul-mate even, after all his lyrics - at least through "The Pretender" indicate an ultra-sensitive individual such as herself, honest, soul-searching, often unapologetically delving into melancholy as she does - someone who "ain't afraid" of the devil, the seemingly perfect combinations, only to find she'd happened upon a misogynist and apparently a narcissist to boot. "Late for the Sky", "Looking into You", "I thought I was a Child" among many, many, others off his first 3 albums are truly memorable. But without knowing much about him, this man seems to have serious anger problems as well as a misogynistic streak, and this from a former fan. I know I remember reading in the list that there is a lot of controversy regarding the episode, but I find it totally plausible in light of these other women in Jackson's life, and eerily similar tales. I still think his early compositions are beautiful and uncommonly personal works, but I've long since (decades) stopped following him musically, and ... this unfortunate event, which I can envision, is really not altogether unexpected or that far-fetched IMO. - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:27:00 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? Firstly, I don't mean to come off as an expert about what songs are about who - Joni's songs may be directed at or inspired specific people in HER life but due to their strength and lyrical honesty we tend to project them into our own life which is why we are so CLOSE to her, or one of the reasons anyway. I do find it interesting though, and Weller has integrated LOTS of reliable sources to make her cases, unlike Brian Hinton who takes an "I say so, therefore it IS so" approach in his biography "Both Sides Now". I was like you regarding "Car On A Hill" and didn't see any connection between the Browne incident and the lyrics in the song, but when you read about what was happening, and the night that inspired it (Jackson was supposed to come over to Joni's but never shows up, going to another woman's house instead), it actually makes sense. Again, it doesn't really influence my opinion or feelings about the song (and I will never think of Jackson Browne when I hear the lines "he makes friends easy, he's not like me - I watch for judgement anxiously"), but in an overall study of her work it's interesting to know. I also had underplayed her relationships with John Guerin and Don Alias, I thought they were very short and lightweight but both were actually a lot more than that. Bob NP: Martha Reeves & The Vandellas, "Heatwave" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:36:45 -0400 From: "Mark Angelo" Subject: Re: Joni and birds Samuel wrote: FTR is my fave too, as I love the piano melodies in it. And guess what, C&S > was also my first purchase :-) > Hi Samuel, Indeed, I was around 12 years of age in Saudi Arabia, our choices over there were VERY limited, I think they had one English channel TV network - only broadcast in the evening, and one radio station which ARAMCO - the oil company, now nationalized and state owned - would play somewhat recent US releases on, and I remember taping the broadcast of C&S to my parent's reel to reel tape player. Anyhow the more I played it, the more I loved it's every song. I have listened to it so much in the past I rarely play it now, it's every verse practically memorized, but it is a brilliant work and was the first major indication of the jazz that would later be so integral to her music, and IMHO should have won the Grammy it was nominated for that year. I don't recall hearing another Joni album until I came back to the US of necessity (ARAMCO only provided schooling until 9th grade - after that you had to leave home to attend a boarding school somewhere) and worked my way back with FTR and earlier works, while purchasing THOSL and Hejira as they were released. It's sad that the Academy had to wait until TI to give her the long, long overdue nod which I find to be another symptom of the state of the Recording Industry that she finally left with disgust with TTT. Mark in Florida. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:20:20 -0500 From: "Dan Olson" Subject: "Girls Like Us" author on "Morning Joe" on MSNBC I stumbled on it (I can't stand Joe Scarboro, the host) this morning. Just as I tuned to it, Joe was saying (to the author, and his sidekick) that Joni Mitchell clearly is vastly more influencial compared to the other "girls", acknowledging that Joni is one of the most influential artists of the last century. But he's still an asshole. ~Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:14:05 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: What is it with Jackson Browne? Don Alias's comments in the book are quite poignant. He mentioned feeling hurt when the WOHAM documentary omitted any reference to him, and wondered whether it was because he was black. I remember wondering the same thing when I first saw WOHAM. It's a wonderful film, but as far as romances go, it is so Graham-heavy. At 01:27 PM 4/30/2008, you wrote: I also had underplayed her relationships with John Guerin and Don Alias, I thought they were very short and lightweight but both were actually a lot more than that. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:09:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannie Subject: Re: SJC Timeless Back in the late 70's, when I was attending the UIW, around the corner was my hang-out that I'd visit daily between classes---a record store, naturally! I was on a constant search for female singer/SONGWRITERS and came across many talented women in the process that I enjoyed listening to--like Laura Nyro, Joan Armatrading---and many singers, such as, Judy Collins, Sandy Denny, Nicolette Larson, Valerie Carter---and many others, but for me, no one even come close to Joni. Then one sunny day, happy, I remember, I walked into "The Platter", and said, "Hey Guys, came in to see what new releases came in today," and went over to the wall where they were on display. (At that time, buying albums was a gamble and I hated to dislike what I bought, having to give them away to feel better about it, which was quite often.) I gasped when I saw what seemed to me to be a new Joni album---Joni with a joint between her lips instead of a cigarette. I ran and grasped for it and thought, "What? This isn't Joni! But it looks like Joni. And her name is Rickie Lee Jones." I bought it. Took it home and fell in love with Rickie Lee's music and style. Nobody like Rickie Lee, either. I could relate to her from her first album in every aspect and on to every album that followed into the present. Joni's my #1 Rickie Lee's my #1.1 Jeannie NP in rotation non-stop for three days now: Shine and The Sermon On Exposition Boulevard **And I'd never want to turn around, back to the days of my youth, just to be able to be here, now, at this very moment, to be able to hear and feel with all of my heart and soul, Joni 's and Rickie Lee's latest works. Seems as if the Magical Physician gave them to me as gifts to help me relate to these precious kindred spirits of mine during these times, these times, ohh, these troubling times, to let me know I am not alone** Mark Angelo wrote: Mark E. in Seattle said in part: "I have seen Rickie Lee Jones in concert 3 times. The second time was from 2nd row center of the Moore Theatre in Seattle and her last song was 'Flying Cowboys'. I love the way she belts out 'when I-I-I was you-ung I was a wi-ild, wi-ild one!' Makes me particularly nostalgic now for my own somewhat wild younger years after recently re-visting the scene of many of my wild times!" Mark, I am mesmerized right now with the song and the video, I have played it umpteen times.Apparently produced in 1989, I am still floored by how Joni-esque she appears at least in this video, very striking especially the part where she sings with her Indian friend. The visuals in the video of Native American peoples, coyotes, and eagles are quite familiar to us Joniphiles as well. I too love the ending lines and the emotion that pours forth in them. Not that I was as wild as she was by any stretch of the imagination, but my world has certainly become much smaller in many ways as I have aged. But the world is turning is faster Than it did when I was young Oh when I was young I was a wild, wild one... I found it quite remarkable as well that she was raised in Phoenix, Arizona, where apparently she was quite a "wild, wild one" and ran away from home and hitch-hiked a number of times. The video's imagery makes me nostalgic about my youth, and more recently for my years spent in Arizona when I moved out there some twelve years ago. Although I loved Phoenix, the air is so heavy with man-made particulate pollution, many times obscuring the mountain vistas, but causing me such respiratory problems that I ended up in Tucson where I may return as I have missed The Old Pueblo terribly these past two years. I always simply associated her with the song "Chuck E's in Love" and never thought much more about it. This video, however, has me intrigued about the rest of her songs for now. I'm so glad you used the term "eponymous debut", I was using the word eponymous so much I had to stop myself as I was wondering if I needed to censor myself as up 'til now I haven't noticed anyone else use it. "Self-titled" has a certain ambiguity in my view. They titled it themselves? What title did they choose? etc ;-) BTW I too am a Mark E., however the E stands for "Eric" - I think the spelling Erik goes better with Mark, but I was not given a choice in the matter. Mark in Florida NP: Rickie Lee Jones Flying Cowboys ~nj~ - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:29:50 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Joe Jackson sings Joni & Todd show Hey, Bob, Do you know if that Joe Jackson version of Joni's "Down To You" was ever recorded? Is it in your "covers" collection somewhere? I'd really love to hear THAT one. Still getting caught up with emails after a week away. How was the Todd show that you and Mrs. scjoniguy attended? (You could pm me on this one.) Kenny B ************** Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:10:49 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Girls Like Us I haven't read it, but Mrs. Remote has been reading parts of it. I have to say, I question the veracity of an author who thinks James Taylor wrote the lines "the sky won't snow and the sun won't shine" (from Desperado, Henley/Frey.) RR ps my email has been gone for 5 days due to the incompetancy of Hughesnet...still hoping they will find all the ones they lost. If anyone is thinking of getting Hughes satellite internet, it REEELY sucks. Don't do it if you have any other option. (I've had it for several years, sadly it IS my only option). ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2008 #33 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe