From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #476 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, March 2 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 476 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's Voice (smoking!) [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) [Victor Johnson ] Joni, smoking and more ["Oddmund Kaarevik" ] Joni and Stills (and Judy) [Patti Parlette ] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) [KEVIN DOHENY ] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) ["Some Millers" ] Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) [Monika Bogdanowicz ] RE: Joni's Voice (smoking!) ["Richard Flynn" ] Joni with other artists [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Joni with other artists ["L.Bruce Vaughn" ] Re: Joni with other artists [Monika Bogdanowicz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 11:47:42 +0100 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Joni's Voice (smoking!) Eric said: i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. Me: Call me a broken record too, because I have said this before: my no 1 Joni album is Hejira, my no 2 is BSN, and I love BSN especially because first time I heard it I was so touched with her mature voice. The history in it! But I don't know what is wrong with saying that smoking damaged her voice. Yes, she says this is not so and that some sort of physical therapy fixed it. I don't hear any difference and wonder if she was given some sort of alternative treatment that she believed in but that didn't really work. What if she herself is not sure what is wrong with her voice but is fed up with everyone going on about it for the past fifty years which seems to be as long as she has smoked? I don't think she is above that sort of reaction. I tend to say that I don't like Travelogue because there are tracks on it that really annoy me. But then I put it on and there are tracks that are SO MOVING.... So I'm with you, some of the way! Bene ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 07:07:40 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) On Mar 1, 2008, at 1:58 AM, Eric Taylor wrote: > > May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" > Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! > > MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album > > Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest > music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) > > i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of > people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to > read it??? > Why are you bringing this up again? Yes, someone's voice will change naturally as they age. And yes, smoking cigarettes constantly affects the voice as well. That's not an opinion, its a fact. If you talk all day and shout a lot that will affect your voice. It's a very delicate instrument that needs to be taken care of. To claim anything to the contrary is ignorant. Both are factors, period. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:50:57 +0100 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: Joni, smoking and more Hi Eric ! No, you're not the only one preferring the old Joni, and the Joni with the smoky voice. No, you're not the only one finding "Travelogue" a beautiful piece of work. No,you're not the only one preferring the later Joni to the helium-Joni of the late 60's and early 70's. No, you're not the only one who has read and appreciated the Joni interview in Mojo. I absolutely loved it. Joni can sometimes strike me as so clearsighted in interviews. I loved the part Monica reffered to, where Joni speaks about her music as a river, everchanging. I loved the story when Joni learnt what spekaing the truth my lead to (Half-empty church) I also loved to read the commentary of Joni's albums at the end. And no I'm not blaming Joni for smoking and "destroying" her voice. Joni's voice is beatiful as evers, imo. But, I believe Kay has a good point when she is stating that Joni is in deep denial, when she doesn't admit that smoking has done anything with her singingvoice whatsover. I can hear the smoke when she sing, to me it's beautiful, but yes it pisses someone off. I 've also been heartbroken by people on the list loving the 70's material only and dissing everything new (esp. Travelogue, TTT and also CMIRS) But, hey it's a free world. You love the new stuff, some love the old. I think it's great the we have different opinions, can discuss and live with the disagrrement. But I understand that vulnerable feeling of being a loving and enthusiastic minority. And I cherish your enthusiasm Eric. Your Love for Shine and other Joni music has been richely spread out to the list, and count me as one for someone appreciating it. But don't take people's lack of suport for your personal statements as an attack on you. The just don't agree. Doesn't mean they don't like you or appreciate you, that is what I've lived and learned here, on in my fourth year on the Joni Mitchell discussion list. Shine on Eric. You're not alone ! Love ! Oddmund, Norway NP: Jane Siberry: Are we dancing now (Map III) i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. i find most Joni fans prefer her pre Hissing Of Summer Lawns. There seems to be a great divide over this album so just let me state that it is unquestionably my least favorite of all Joni albums (although i LOVE Sweetbird) Apparently i am among the very few fans who joniphiles who thinks she just keeps better with each album. i LOVED Dog Eat Dog & Chalkmark when they came out! Night Ride Home made me realize we are dealing with a genius not seen since Yeats. b u t Turblent Indigo convinced me that our world has NEVER witnessed an artist quite like Joni. Obviously i am in the vast majority for absolutely ADORING Travelogue. SHINE propels me to conclude she is our world's most original artist since Beethoven!!! May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to read it??? All i can say is that Joni BY FAR is the most important artist since daVinci..... The big question is: would u want to sound the same way u did 40 years later? i can't blame Biz & Joplin for wanting to break her leg Our Joan IS surviving HISTORY unfolding soooo beautifully & i am SO grateful that i am aware of what a HUGE contribution she continues to make! IS EVERYONE STUCK IN THE 70's?????? It's SAD to see that everyone seems to judge Joni by her early folk stuff. i am a Joni fan who appriciates her music more with every album Not lying! ET NP: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 13:12:12 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Joni and Stills (and Judy) Hi David in NH (isn't the snow pretty today?) and All: Since you have a mighty mighty thirst to know more about our friends (these troubadours who have acted out their parts, one could say!), I recommend this book in case you missed it: "Hotel California: The True-Life Adventures of Crosby, Stills, Nash, Young, Mitchell, Taylor, Browne, Ronstadt, Geffen, the Eagles, and Their Many Friends" by Barney Hoskyns Lots of Joni content (if I recall, even some chapter titles were some of her lyrics), and some good photos, to boot. I just ordered it as a birthday gift for an old h.s. friend (she went to Florida) and see that it's now out in paperback. Peace, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 05:31:36 -0800 (PST) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) BRAVO! Eric! Well said man.. In fact I pretty much agree with everything you said..Except i love "Hissing" sooo much...You made my morning by comapring our girl to Davinci and Beethoven etc..She most certainly belongs in the same sentence as those giants...She is unique beyond compare although i don;t mind comparisons to the above mentioned artists..lol..As far as Joni's smoking/voice "change"...I look at it this way..We as Joni fans should consider ourselves lucky to be madly in love with an artist with such a diverse catalog..Like a fine wine getting better growing stronger(love cass elliot) with each album...To me Shine is just another in a long line of eye opening, soul stretching music...It was worth the wait for me for sure!! Thanks again man! Eric Taylor wrote: i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. i find most Joni fans prefer her pre Hissing Of Summer Lawns. There seems to be a great divide over this album so just let me state that it is unquestionably my least favorite of all Joni albums (although i LOVE Sweetbird) Apparently i am among the very few fans who joniphiles who thinks she just keeps better with each album. i LOVED Dog Eat Dog & Chalkmark when they came out! Night Ride Home made me realize we are dealing with a genius not seen since Yeats. b u t Turblent Indigo convinced me that our world has NEVER witnessed an artist quite like Joni. Obviously i am in the vast majority for absolutely ADORING Travelogue. SHINE propels me to conclude she is our world's most original artist since Beethoven!!! May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to read it??? All i can say is that Joni BY FAR is the most important artist since daVinci..... The big question is: would u want to sound the same way u did 40 years later? i can't blame Biz & Joplin for wanting to break her leg Our Joan IS surviving HISTORY unfolding soooo beautifully & i am SO grateful that i am aware of what a HUGE contribution she continues to make! IS EVERYONE STUCK IN THE 70's?????? It's SAD to see that everyone seems to judge Joni by her early folk stuff. i am a Joni fan who appriciates her music more with every album Not lying! ET NP: - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:22:02 -0500 From: "Some Millers" Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) Im on the same wavelength as you Eric vis-`-vis Jonis ongoing ascension into the upper echelon of artists over the years. However, I strongly disagree w/ you vis-`-vis the merits of HOSL. Harrys House was the primary hook by which Joni reeled me in ~ 30 years ago, and Ive been savoring each and every new release ever since. Long may she run! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 08:21:59 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni's Voice (smoking!) But smoking does change a person's voice over time. Just as Victor pointed out, many things can one's voice over time given how you treat it. Hell, screaming too much over a long period of time can make you lose your voice! I often wonder if Janis Joplin somehow made it, if she would still have been able to sing today singing like that all the time... As for whether smoking "deteriorates" someone's voice, well that is subjective. Change doesn't mean for the worse (although it could). It is an opinion whether you like Joni's voice now which is changed (and in part from smoking and a load of other things presumably). -Monika, whose favorite album is The Hissing of Summer Lawns but who wholeheartedly digs Shine Eric Taylor wrote: i feel like a broken record stating this yet again BUT i MUCH prefer joni's post Hejira voice ~ particularly post Night Ride Home. i find most Joni fans prefer her pre Hissing Of Summer Lawns. There seems to be a great divide over this album so just let me state that it is unquestionably my least favorite of all Joni albums (although i LOVE Sweetbird) Apparently i am among the very few fans who joniphiles who thinks she just keeps better with each album. i LOVED Dog Eat Dog & Chalkmark when they came out! Night Ride Home made me realize we are dealing with a genius not seen since Yeats. b u t Turblent Indigo convinced me that our world has NEVER witnessed an artist quite like Joni. Obviously i am in the vast majority for absolutely ADORING Travelogue. SHINE propels me to conclude she is our world's most original artist since Beethoven!!! May i just say that IT REALLY PISSES ME OFF that people "blame" Joni's latest greatest vocals on cigarettets! MY GOD she only sounds warmer & better with every album Apparently i am the only JMDL member who appriciates Joni's latest music more than ever before (pleae prove me wrong people!) i could quote Joni from MOJO on the 'stupidity' & 'ignorance' of people who blame her deeper voice on tobacco but ARE u too lazy to read it??? All i can say is that Joni BY FAR is the most important artist since daVinci..... The big question is: would u want to sound the same way u did 40 years later? i can't blame Biz & Joplin for wanting to break her leg Our Joan IS surviving HISTORY unfolding soooo beautifully & i am SO grateful that i am aware of what a HUGE contribution she continues to make! IS EVERYONE STUCK IN THE 70's?????? It's SAD to see that everyone seems to judge Joni by her early folk stuff. i am a Joni fan who appriciates her music more with every album Not lying! ET NP: - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 14:44:25 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni's Voice (smoking!) I used to smoke. For a long time. As a consequence I have COPD and about 60% of my lung capacity left. I also sing, and in the years since I quit smoking, my voice is a lot better than it was when I smoked. Wanting to continue singing and breathing finally became more important than smoking. It is hardly ignorant to say that smoking has not improved Joni's voice. Smoking is a powerful addiction, and guess what? It's bad for your health. The last Joni Mitchell album I really liked a great deal was Turbulent Indigo. I do not share the enthusiasm of some for BSN or Travelogue. But I don't feel that I have to harangue them because they disagree with me. But those taste preferences are unrelated to the question of whether smoking is bad for your voice. I find your tone perplexing Eric. What am I being accused of here simply because I don't share your opinions? Laziness? Being stuck in the seventies? I don't get it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 16:39:35 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Joni with other artists I'm taking a break from some political chatter to talk about one of my favorite subjects, Joni Mitchell! Anyhow, some on the JMDL were discussing Stephen Stills' appearances on Joni's records (and Joni's on James Taylor's and so forth). This being said, what is your favorite Joni appearance on someone else's song? She's been courteous enough to lend her vocals to other peoples' records...so? -Monika - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 18:11:07 -0700 From: "L.Bruce Vaughn" Subject: Re: Joni with other artists Monika, For me it would be her unexpected appearance on Seal's 1994 album on the track If I Could. It was unexpected for me since I didn't read the pre-publicity for the album or liner notes before listening to it and when her voice came into the track I think my exact reaction was "sh.t that's JONI!" and after playing the track about 5 times... "Damn that's good!". Bruce > I'm taking a break from some political chatter to talk about one of my favorite subjects, Joni Mitchell! Anyhow, some on the JMDL were discussing Stephen Stills' appearances on Joni's records (and Joni's on James Taylor's and so forth). This being said, what is your favorite Joni appearance on someone else's song? She's been courteous enough to lend her vocals to other peoples' records...so? > -Monika > > >--------------------------------- >Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 20:16:49 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Joni with other artists Oh, I forgot to say (though I myself thought of live performances while typing my question) feel free to include your favorite live (not just album songs) songs that Joni lent her vocals to (ex: to Johnny Cash songs on his show, on a James Taylor song live at a concert, etc). That'll give you even more to choose from if you'd like! -M - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #476 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)