From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #439 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, January 25 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 439 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni & her Mojo [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni & her Mojo [Gary Z ] Re: Joni's complaints ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Joni's complaints [Em ] Re: Joni's complaints ["Mark Scott" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:48:03 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Joni & her Mojo So I picked up the latest copy of Mojo Magazine yesterday, and read the interview. I was disappointed in that it was much shorter than I was expecting, but for the most part it's a pretty good piece. Of course, the two bits that are getting the most traction are the "Woodstock generation dropped the ball" stuff and the "Janis & Joan hated me" stuff...neither of which rings very true imo. Is there anything documented about Janis' hatred of Joni or Joan wanting to break her legs? Nothing that I've ever seen. I don't think you can just make those statements without any kind of corroborative evidence, you come off as being petty and juvenile. It's a whole different thing to say "I always felt like Joan Baez hated me" as opposed to saying "Joan Baez hates me". And then when you throw Laura Nyro in there too, it sounds like Joni is the one who is insecure in female company, not the other way around. All that being said, the interview doesn't dwell on these two points, much more time is spent on Joni, her work and her creative processes. There's also a sidebar that discusses a cross-section of her work. In the same issue is a piece on Henry Diltz which looks to be full of Joni content too - I haven't read it yet. Les, if you need a copy of the interview/article, lemme know. Bob NP: Joni, "Michael From Mountains" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:10:06 -0500 From: Gary Z Subject: Re: Joni & her Mojo Yes, I agree Bob; it sounds like maybe Joni is the insecure one here with female company. Regarding Laura Nyro, and this is only my opinion, we know that Joni respected Laura very much musically. I do remember someone asking Joni about Laura, and Joni's short response was to the effect of, "Well, you know Laura was a very strange girl...." I believe Laura tended to be a bit child-like and odd (to some) regarding her interpretation of her music; (and her way of looking at life, and her general demeanor, etc.) i.e., her quote at one point "I want the song to sound like that chair..." plus the fact that it has been rather established that Laura was gifted with synesthesia which may have made her see/hear music differently than Joni. I think perhaps that's where the "trouble" was; since Joni seems to have a more sensible (? not sure that's the right word) way of looking at music and writing. I think Joni had a more practical (and of course, sensitive) approach to her music, where Laura had a more spiritual or mystical approach to her writing. My understanding is that they were not friends, but that did not diminish their admiration for each other. Plus the article doesn't elaborate on exactly what the "trouble" was, so this is just conjecture on my part. Joni was in the audience when Laura played McCabes in Santa Monica, so I'm sure she did have a great love and admiration for her music. I don't believe that Joni had "trouble" with Laura competitively, only that she simply found her to be a "strange duck." Just my two cents, Best regards, Gary Z. Detroit Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: >So I picked up the latest copy of Mojo Magazine yesterday, and read the >interview. I was disappointed in that it was much shorter than I was >expecting, but for the most part it's a pretty good piece. Of course, the >two bits that are getting the most traction are the "Woodstock generation >dropped the ball" stuff and the "Janis & Joan hated me" stuff...neither of >which rings very true imo. > >Is there anything documented about Janis' hatred of Joni or Joan wanting >to break her legs? Nothing that I've ever seen. I don't think you can just >make those statements without any kind of corroborative evidence, you come >off as being petty and juvenile. It's a whole different thing to say "I >always felt like Joan Baez hated me" as opposed to saying "Joan Baez hates >me". And then when you throw Laura Nyro in there too, it sounds like Joni >is the one who is insecure in female company, not the other way around. > >All that being said, the interview doesn't dwell on these two points, much >more time is spent on Joni, her work and her creative processes. There's >also a sidebar that discusses a cross-section of her work. > >In the same issue is a piece on Henry Diltz which looks to be full of Joni >content too - I haven't read it yet. > >Les, if you need a copy of the interview/article, lemme know. > >Bob > >NP: Joni, "Michael From Mountains" >------------------------------------------------------------ >The information transmitted is intended only for the person >or entity to which it is addressed and may contain >proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. >If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are >hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, >distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon >this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please >contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > >Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual >sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. >------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:23:53 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Joni's complaints From: "Mark Scott" > I finally got my hands on the Mojo interview. > The Mojo article quotes Joni as saying > Rolling Stone made Joni queen of rock & roll and Janis hated her after > that. I can't find anything in the jmdl library's Rolling Stone articles to support this-Janis died in October of 1970, six months before "Blue" was released. The RS articles are more about Joni as an up-and-comer, and as an important songwriter in the then-perceived folk revival. Janis was certainly the partying rock star, at the peak of her short reign as rock/blues mama. I could picture her sneering at the touchy-feely style that Joni might have represented to some people at that time, and I suppose that, in an industry dominated by males, any female could be considered a threat. In 1969, if you look at the lineup at Woodstock, for example, it's 90% men. > My feeling is that Joni probably inspired some resentment and envy > I mean, here was this young, relatively unknown woman > with a pristine 3 octave voice, perfect pitch, accomplished, unique > guitar playing who was also a highly prolific writer/composer of songs > she had long, beautiful > blonde hair, amazing cheekbones, > and the men were all smitten So was the resentment (if there was any) professional or social? ...Certainly Janis was insecure about her looks, even more so than the norm for women in the entertainment biz...maybe that's what Joni was picking up on. And Janis, in her stage ramblings, sometimes talked about some good- looking guy she had the hots for (and was possibly unattainable). Joni, on the other hand, had to beat the boys away with sticks. As to Joni being the life of the party, guitarist Dale Miller told me about a party he attended in Berkeley back in those days, and Joni was standing all alone, no one was talking to her. He said it wasn't just her being shy, but being kind of unapproachable, due to her intensity, and no doubt her devastating looks. He was certainly smitten, and later regretted not going up to her, but she had what I call the Scorpio force field. ....I guess I don't have any central point here, but I enjoyed reading your thoughtful comments, Mark, as well as the other posts on this thread. Bonus trivia: Blue is available on vinyl, and it's only about triple the cost of the CD! Retro-ly, RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 17:54:51 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Joni's complaints - --- Randy Remote wrote: > ...Certainly Janis was insecure about her looks, > even more so than the norm for women in the entertainment > biz...maybe that's what Joni was picking up on. my hunch is that's what's at the basis for the issues between most of the female performers/writers/artists of that era. The women's movement hadn't kicked in, and they all hated each other like female dogs pretty much quite often don't get along. (and the pretty scandinavian looking blonde one who was suddenly marked as genius was particulary at risk in this society of bitches) Not "hated" really, but were allergic to each other. Its a shame. But history hadn't caught up enough yet to LUBE the way for the few rock (rock related) chicks to be comfortable around each other. Let alone MESH like the guys did. (not that the guys always meshed either) Some sort of 1950's girly cattiness prevailed. Fear and loathing, estrogen style. I ADORE how Laura Nyro threw this off later on, and came to love women. Janis, of course, didn't get the chance to evolve. Joan and Joni, I would suspect, kind of feel similarly about this stuff nowadays. Again, just a hunch. In the end, I bet they could sit in church and sing a hymn together. Both have realized Amazing Grace in their own way. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:08:35 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Joni's complaints - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Remote" > I can't find anything in the jmdl library's Rolling Stone articles > to support this-Janis died in October of 1970, six months before > "Blue" was released. The chronology just seemed wrong to me, too. I had to go back just now and re-read what Joni is quoted as saying in the Mojo interview. When asked, 'What was your relationship with Jopin?', Joni's response was: 'She was very competitive with me, very insecure. She was the queen of rock'n'roll [one year] and then Rolling Stone made the queen of rock'n'roll and she hated me after that.' Like I said, I wonder if she meant this to be taken literally or if she even thought much about it before she said it. Joni does like to talk and maybe this was her perception of what happened. Remarks made on the spur of the moment, off the cuff, are not the result of painstaking research into one's own past, I suppose. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #439 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)