From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #431 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, January 17 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 431 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Tina, Herbie, Luciana & Eric [seulbzzaj@aol.com] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: WTRF Now Dog Eat Dog [Gary Z ] RE: Re: Patty Griffin, Emmylou, Shawn Colvin and Buddy Miller in conc ert - SJC ["Phyliss Ward" ] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike/the 80s [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: WTRF (3GS) [Monika Bogdanowicz ] RE: Mojo [anon anon ] DED [Robert Procyk ] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike ["Lori Fye" ] Re: RE : re: desert island discs [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Dog Eat Dog [Laura Stanley ] Re: Dog Eat Dog [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike [] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike [merk54@aol.com] Re: Mojo ["Randy Remote" ] New Cover ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Mojo [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike [] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike [] Robben Ford - Joni related [] Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike ["Laurent Olszer" ] Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #537 [relliea@aol.com] Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:40:19 -0500 From: seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: Tina, Herbie, Luciana & Eric ....which then led me to a promo video for 'The New Bossa Nova' by Luciana Souza (who sings Amelia on 'River : >> ? Luciana Souza is also married to Larry Klein. ? Scott ? ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:51:35 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike I agree with your assessment totally, Kakki. And echo everything you said particularly the above. I didn't dislike DED then and I don't now. Some of it sounds a little 80's cheesy, but so does lots of other music from that period that I still dig. Always have been enthralled with Ethiopia which is the one that most dislike the most. DED had a lot RIGHT with it, unfortunately CMIARS took everything that was WRONG with it and intensified all of those factors. Like you say, Joni had nowhere to go but up after that fiasco, and she did indeed skyrocket back to the top with NRH. Bob NP: Ben Folds, "Narcolepsy" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:05:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Ditto from this old timer. Kakki hit the nail on the head! Jerry Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > collaborated - it ends up being compromised and watered down.> > > I agree with your assessment totally, Kakki. And echo everything you said > particularly the above. I didn't dislike DED then and I don't now. Some of > it sounds a little 80's cheesy, but so does lots of other music from that > period that I still dig. Always have been enthralled with Ethiopia which > is the one that most dislike the most. DED had a lot RIGHT with it, > unfortunately CMIARS took everything that was WRONG with it and > intensified all of those factors. Like you say, Joni had nowhere to go but > up after that fiasco, and she did indeed skyrocket back to the top with > NRH. > > Bob > > NP: Ben Folds, "Narcolepsy" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:17:34 -0500 From: Gary Z Subject: Re: WTRF Now Dog Eat Dog I agree, Michael, that the "Good Friends" demo from the Geffen box set is absolutely stunning. I love that version and can listen to it over and over. To me, it was worth the cost of the box set, if only for that one track. I've always liked "Dog Eat Dog" a bit more than "Wild Things Run Fast" and "Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm" but I can only imagine how beautiful all three recordings would have sounded if the three of them had stripped down alternate studio takes available like the "Good Friends" demo we got to hear. To me, there is nothing quite as beautiful as Joni and piano! (or guitar for that matter!) Best regards, Gary Z. Detroit Michael Paz wrote: >I thought the Amensty show stress from the crowd added to the >effectiveness of 3 Great Stimulants. I listened to DED the other day >and I have to admit I like some of the tracks esp. Good Friends, the >song DED. Ethiopia, and Impossible Dreamer. The production is weak. >*I* could have done a much better job than that Dolby character. I >also love the demo of Good Friends from the Geffen release. > >Best > >Paz > >NP-Louisiana IA PHJB Live > > >Michael Paz >michael@thepazgroup.com > >Tour Manager >Preservation Hall Jazz Band >http://www.preservationhall.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:12:10 -0500 From: "Phyliss Ward" Subject: RE: Re: Patty Griffin, Emmylou, Shawn Colvin and Buddy Miller in conc ert - SJC That had to be one of the most unusual concerts this girl has ever been to. Basically the four of them lined up in chairs on the stage, just as casually as if they were in someone's living room. Chit chatting and playing with flying monkey toys that squeal, talking about spanking them and such. (My seats were too far back but if anyone knows exactly what these monkey toys are and where I can get one I would love to bring one on the cruise) They had no set list, just rotated, decided, tuned guitars and played songs, making up back up and harmony as they went. I waited all night for a Joni reference or cover to no avail, even with 2 encores. The theme last night was Martin Luther King's B-day and they did some songs about and inspired by him including 'Abraham Martin and John' from the 60's. Who recorded that originaly? Also came back for 2 encores including an ensemble version of John Lennon's 'Imagine'. Patty Griffin did steal the show even though I thought she was much better when I saw her solo here less than a year ago. She was the only one who didn't succumb to shout out requests for songs. Shawn did Polaroids by request, Emmy Lou did Red Dirt Girl. I can't remember what Buddy did. I really wanted to hear Patty do Rain. Oh Well. My daughter in law (28) was not very familiar with any of them but is definitely into the genre. We are both huge Jonatha Brooke fans. She really enjoyed the evening, thanking me with a huge hug. Phyliss Joseph wrote. At this moment Phyliss must probably have seen the "Three Girls and their Buddy" concert in Asheville, so maybe we may have a report on that leg of the concert -- especially on a Joni cover that one of them may do. Maybe Shawn should sing "Blue Motel Room" as I think it suits her voice. Or her voice seems to suit the technical demands of that lovely song. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:57:39 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Hi Kakki I agree and disagree sort of. When other producers have been heavy handed and tried to over produce her this watered down effect has happened. But I think some of the loves of her life have been an influence and/or an inspiration that has had a positive effect on the music when she has maintained control of the overall production. The WTRF album for instance I think she was head over heals in love and she made an album that to this day makes me feel like I am in love again. I know Klein was all over the place during those sessions, but ultimately I think she maintained production control. Also when David Crosby was producing her by NOT producing her. I really would have loved to hear DED as a Joni only album. And wouldn't it have been interesting if Joni would have a relationship with Frank Zappa?!?!?!?!? Love Paz on the way to see The Crazy Cuban and Jimmy Stewart michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 16, 2008, at 1:03 AM, wrote: I think the problem some have with DED is it doesn't sound like the Joni we knew and loved. It's weird, but I think the album technically is very well done and the lyrics alone are some of her absolute best. (I converted a friend to Joni just by having him read the lyrics). To some there is just way too much of Klein and others' influence diluting the pure Joni here. I have heard and maybe Joni has also said somewhere that Klein wanted her to sound more 80s to be more saleable and popular. Bad move for the Joni purists. I think Klein's production work with several other artist, such as Shawn and Julia Fordham, is just wonderful. But I don't think Joni's music can be collaborated - it ends up being compromised and watered down. It's like if you really love a prime cut of steak, medium rare, perfectly cooked and then someone trying to be innovative serves you that same prime cut smothered in some kind of weird rosemary and fennel sauce. Ruined ;-) Can you imagine DED done completely Joni style? It would have been a totally different work. I did not like the Klein production values and influence on her albums. That is why when I first heard the song Night Ride Home one evening on a crowded freeway, I immediately spun off at the next exit to get to a music store to pick it up. I was finally hearing Joni's "voice" again like I had remembered it. So, bottom line, it is a very good album, but it is not all our Joni and that is why some have a slight aversion to it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:33:06 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike/the 80s Hmm, well I can't say all that much for Dog Eat Dog. I have heard acoustic versions of some of these songs (thanks to YouTube and some videos I have seen) which were wonderful and intimate to me and I have heard the album all the way through (though I haven't listened to it 3 times as I usually do before placing judgement). I'm not going to lie though. I'm in no rush to listen to it again.. (but I will)....and I'll tell you why. I have always had a STRONG aversion to the 80's, and when I say 80's I don't mean just anything made in the 80's but I'm talking about that 80's sound that got just about (almost) everyone. All those abused synths (the 70's showed us that synths can be used quite tastefully to enhance a song but the 80's killed it), that horrid, fake sounding drumbeat that was in almost every song (or so it seemed), all those weird noises that just make things cheesier than they already are, etc, etc. I call the 80's the second Depression as it was a cultural depression to my eyes and ears---alot of the music, the fashions, etc etc. Now granted there were a few...just a few....albums I liked it in the 80's but it seemed almost no one came out untouched by that vicious 80's musical plague. And it seems that DED is very 80's that way and I can't help it. I have always hated that sound, what I call the 80's sound. And to me, there's really no getting around something that sounds so very 80's. Some of that music made in the 80's is the same thing to me as fingers scratching a chalkboard are to others. It does seem Joni tried out that 80's sound for this album. Now I'll listen to the album more but I highly, highly, highly doubt my opinion will change all that much due to the production. I'm sure I'll find moments of brilliance (and think of the live versions of some of the songs) but overall I don't think I will find this an album I will continually go back to. -Monika, who still loves Joni though! - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:40:35 -0600 From: "Dan Olson" Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Joni did have some run-ins with Frank: http://www.united-mutations.com/m/joni_mitchell.htm "joni mitchell sat in with us last night during the second show and we improvised a thing that was really good. and we ended it with her singing 'duke of earl'. really far out, she came on stage: 'now ok and we're going to improvise this thing...' and we did a few chords for her and she started reciting this poem which began: 'penelope wants to fuck the sea..." and the audience did a double take 'yuuunk!'... a little hush falls over the fillmore... joni mitchell?" -zappa, 1970 Also, when Joni was living in Laurel Canyon, Frank was renting the guest house on the same property (this was discussed on this list 5 or 6 years ago). ~Dan On 1/16/08, Michael Paz wrote: > > Hi Kakki > I agree and disagree sort of. When other producers have been heavy > handed and tried to over produce her this watered down effect has > happened. But I think some of the loves of her life have been an > influence and/or an inspiration that has had a positive effect on the > music when she has maintained control of the overall production. The > WTRF album for instance I think she was head over heals in love and > she made an album that to this day makes me feel like I am in love > again. I know Klein was all over the place during those sessions, but > ultimately I think she maintained production control. Also when David > Crosby was producing her by NOT producing her. I really would have > loved to hear DED as a Joni only album. And wouldn't it have been > interesting if Joni would have a relationship with Frank Zappa?!?!?!?!? > > Love > > Paz on the way to see The Crazy Cuban and Jimmy Stewart > > michael@thepazgroup.com > > Tour Manager > Preservation Hall Jazz Band > http://www.preservationhall.com > > > > > On Jan 16, 2008, at 1:03 AM, > wrote: > > I think the problem some have with DED is it doesn't sound like the > Joni we > knew and loved. It's weird, but I think the album technically is very > well > done and the lyrics alone are some of her absolute best. (I converted a > friend to Joni just by having him read the lyrics). To some there is > just way > too much of Klein and others' influence diluting the pure Joni here. > I have > heard and maybe Joni has also said somewhere that Klein wanted her to > sound > more 80s to be more saleable and popular. Bad move for the Joni > purists. I > think Klein's production work with several other artist, such as Shawn > and > Julia Fordham, is just wonderful. But I don't think Joni's music can be > collaborated - it ends up being compromised and watered down. It's > like if > you really love a prime cut of steak, medium rare, perfectly cooked > and then > someone trying to be innovative serves you that same prime cut > smothered in > some kind of weird rosemary and fennel sauce. Ruined ;-) Can you > imagine DED > done completely Joni style? It would have been a totally different > work. I > did not like the Klein production values and influence on her albums. > That is > why when I first heard the song Night Ride Home one evening on a crowded > freeway, I immediately spun off at the next exit to get to a music > store to > pick it up. I was finally hearing Joni's "voice" again like I had > remembered > it. > > So, bottom line, it is a very good album, but it is not all our Joni > and that > is why some have a slight aversion to it. > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:41:14 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: WTRF (3GS) Wait a minute, you mean to tell me somebody actually, really through a water balloon which hit Joni's electric guitar? Man oh man oh man. Not only is that EXTREMELY rude, completely not funny, immature, but it could also be dangerous if too much water hit an electrical cord and such. Oh man, and some threw pennies? Man if that was me I would have taken those pennies and chucked them right back. How very, very, very rude. No wonder Joni doesn't like touring or playing live all too much. Sure, you have your good, well behaved audiences but I'm sure some of the bad ones would stick out in your mind like no other. Well I say good for Joni for showing them through song! That's the way. -Monika, who still can't believe there are big enough assholes who would throw water balloons up on a stage or even pennies....man.... Eric Taylor wrote: O HOW TRUE!!! I was in the third row center of that concert when Joni was introduced as the surprise guest. I was there to see U2 and couldn't believe my luck to witnesses my two favorites back to back! As Joni & Larry began playing 3GS a few A-holes directly behind me began throwing pennies at them. Then they hurled water balloons which hit Joni's electric guitar! I was about to murder those stupid F's when security dove on them. Temporarily distracted by the commotion I began to notice the amazing intensity which radiated from Joni and it suddenly became the best song of the 12 hour concert!!! 3GS is likewise stunning in the F&D ballet which I watched again tonight. Have we forgotten that this mindblowing ballet will be preforming this summer? I will definately be there! ET - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:02:51 -0500 From: anon anon Subject: RE: Mojo > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:00:06 -0800 > From: cactustree1978@yahoo.com > Subject: Mojo > To: joni@smoe.org > > I haven't read it yet either..Mostly since I am cheap and just wait for them to eventually show up on jm.com and thru donation it's like sort of buying the magazine?? umm yeah.. (Thank you oh thank you) As far as Janis hating Joni ..Janis was probably drunk lol..As far as Baez goes..It couldn't have been that deep a riff since Joni did participate in the Bred and Roses festival and wasn't that founded by Mimi Farina(joan's sister) > > -------------------------- Also, In 1975, Joni did sing on the song "Dida", from Joan's album: "Diamonds and Rust" _________________________________________________________________ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:08:58 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: DED While DED wasn't my first Joni (that was Blue, in December '87), it was probably my third or forth Joni album, and I must say that the A+ review of DED I read in Creem that made me open to giving Joni a shot. Up until then, I just had a vague notion of who Joni was - some sort of Canadian folk singer, and being Canadian in the 80s, you immediately think music done by Canadians is hokey and second rate and not worthy (this was because of the Canadian Content laws, which allowed for airplay for all kinds of hokey Canadian music that otherwise would not have surfaced, and which, I might add, I love now because of the pure hokeyness and nostalgia of it all. In all fairness, there was some great stuff out of Canada in the 80s - you'd be hard pressed to find a better pop song than "Echo Beach" by Martha and the Muffins, but I digress). Anyway, after reading this gushing review in Creem, I thought "hey, maybe she is good, since an American like her!" ; Well, "Good Friends" got a bit of airplay in Saskatoon, and since I was a huge McDonald fan anyway, I loved it. When I got the album finally, I loved that entire side and played it over and over - Good Friends, Fiction, 3GS, Tax Free.... they all go together for me. I still love DED. But maybe I don't have that much resistance to it because I discovered it early, before I discovered HOSL or DJRD or FTR. Or maybe, since I came of age in the 80s, and listened to such embarassments as Sigue Sigue Sputnik (I can't believe I am admitting that) and, even worse, had in my possession a copy of "Knee Deep in the Hoopla" (I had to keep Grace Slick in diamonds, people!), well, DED wasn't a big leap for me. But 22 years later, I still think it's a great piece of work. It's WTRF that I cannot listen to, other than Chinese Cafe and (oddly enough) "Underneath the Streetlight" and "Solid Love", I just can't get into it. I find WTRF more dated than DED, hands down. And I still play DED regularly, while, unfortunately, I know longer know the words to "Atari Baby" by SSS (although everytime I hear Starship's "Sara" while grocery shopping, I whistle along!). Rob npimh: Echo Beach ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:52:21 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike > So, bottom line, it is a very good album, but it is not all > our Joni and that is why some have a slight aversion to it. Meanwhile and 22 years (?!?) later, I still love DED, as I have from the minute I heard the first song. Then again, for me, Joni's albums have always provided a soundtrack for what was happening in my life at the time I discovered each of them, whether I bought them as they were released or happened upon older ones in used record stores or friends' collections. When DED was released, I was in the Air Force, stationed in Germany, and Reagan was scaring the crap outta me. Plus, being in Germany, I was thoroughly enjoying the technopop that surrounded me, and DED's production fit well with the musical times. It works for me, but then I suppose I've never considered myself a "Joni purist," whatever that is. My first Joni album, still my favorite album by anyone ever, was Hejira. Although I've gotta admit I'm liking Shine a lot, too. : ) Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:18:31 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: RE : re: desert island discs I bought it in NYC when it came out and it is gorgeous on my set up. I played it for Muller the last time he was in FL. Jerry > Just to reiterate something I brought up about a year ago: BSN is to > my knowledge the only Joni album to be released in the DVD-A 5.1 > format. If you have a surround home theater setup, and many do for > watching movies, plus a DVD player of recent vintage that is > compatible with DVD-A (DVD Audio) discs you owe it to yourself to > hear this magnificent work with the orchestra all around you and > Joni's voice filling the whole wall in front of you. Even all you BSN > detractors out there would melt.... guaranteed.. > > And Vince Mendoza is by far my favorite orchestrator working today. > His own album Epiphany is achingly beautiful as is his orchestration > on the Yellowjackets' album Greenhouse, one of my top 5 albums of all > time. Orchestration is a dying art and Vince makes it sound otherwise. > > Dave > > > > From: Joseph Palis > Subject: RE : re: desert island discs > > I just had to add my voice to those who say they love BSN the album. > > I thought that the orchestral (maybe Wagnerian might be more apt but > I won't say that) arrangements by Vince Mendoza created a musical > space for Joni's mature voice to convey the exact shade of autumn, of > regret, of loneliness, of wisdom-through-the-years kinda theme. I > loved the thematic arc of the album, the tasteful song choices and > the character that Joni brings to each song. Remember how she almost > suddenly spews the lyrics "you've changed" from the song of the same > name, as though she wanted to say out loud what her heart felt all > this time. > > Many people said, BSN is like Joni's "Lady in Satin" album and I > kinda agree with the comparison -- both Billie and Joni showcased a > mature, almost-brittle voice that is all the more heartbreaking how > the pristine voiced has became what it became in later years. As > though the singing voice in itself is the medium of the message (very > MacLuhannesque). > > My favorite Joni song in BSN is ACOY and among the standards, I > thought "Answer Me My Love" eclipsed all other recorded versions I > heard. Yes, even Nat "King" Cole's version. > > Joseph in North Carolina > np: Charalambides - Figs and Oranges> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:15:03 -0800 (PST) From: Laura Stanley Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Hi Ya'll, Giving it a good listening to. I haven't had this album for as long as others and haven't listen to it much. It came out the year I got married, 1985, but I only bought it about 2 years ago. The last Joni album I bought before finding the JMDL was the one before it which was WTRF in 1982. I didn't know what to think of WTRF and thereafter lost touch with Joni until 2003 when I join the JMDL. Big gap there! It wasn't because I lost interest in Joni but rather was really sick in my alcoholism in 1982 and after WTRF didn't buy much music at all, if any. I lost my source of income, my apartment, my lover... in 1983, I was homeless for a while. Then I got a job in a children's shelter where I lived and worked at the same time and didn't have much. The Phoenix has risen!!! As I listen to DED, I'm finding it is a fun album! The first song, "Good Friends" reminds me of the way the St. Elmo's Fire song sounds. I like the piano solo version demo at the end of the Geffen set CD better because I can hear Joni more clearly. Neat to think Sherelle sang with Michael McDonald who sang with Joni. I wish Joni would discover Sherelle. I need to listen to "Fiction" several more times. Nothing stands out about it yet. The next song that struck me was "Tax Free." It rocks and speaks. It's all THERE. It's caught my attention before. The funk guitar on "Try Another" grooves me... I love it! "Dog Eat Dog"... I don't know what to think of it yet. "Shiny Toys"... is that Joni or Michael Jackson?! It is a really fun song!!! Reminds me of Discos. I'd like to hear Michael or Janet Jackson sing it. "Ethiopia" really moves me. After "Shiny Toys"... hmmm? I feel like I'm sobering up. "Impossible Dreamer" is very good. I love Joni's deep notes. The song makes me cry. "Lucky Girl"... another I need to give a little more time to soak in. Love, Laura ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:01:37 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog <"Shiny Toys"... is that Joni or Michael Jackson?! It is a really fun song!!!> It was Joni's subliminal attempt to write her own "De Doo Doo Doo, Da da da da" by The Police which was a song she loved at the time. Bob NP: XTC, "Sgt Rock Is Going To Help Me" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:13:40 +1300 From: Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike References: Message-ID: <0add305eb58846a00b7c98f1963ea4c2@ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: hell@ihug.co.nz Received: from [203.96.121.170] (login=hell@ihug.co.nz) by webmail.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.135.59]:80) via TCP with HTTP/1.1 (POST); 17 January 2008 09:13:40 +1300 (NZDT) User-Agent: ihug Webmail/0.1-rc1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lori wrote: > Meanwhile and 22 years (?!?) later, I still love DED, as I have from the > minute I heard the first song. I don't think it's been quite that long since I first heard DED, but I also loved it from the first listen. Another of my favourites is WTRF, in no small part because it was the first Joni album I ever heard. I agree with Lori, sometimes it's not so much the content of the music, but it's context in our own lives - not that that detracts at all from DED being one of my favourite Joni albums. STAS, on the other hand (with the exception of Cactus Tree and Night In The City) I could live without... Let the flame war commence ;o) Hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:10:59 -0500 From: merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike I happen to enjoy DED a great deal, and ironically it is the only Joni album that my wife likes.? In fact, she loves it!? It probably ranks in her top 5 albums of all time.? She always gets excited when ever I play it.? When Tax Free comes on, she always yell "You sing it, Joni".? When ever we go on a long trip by car, DED is always one of the cds brought along for the ride. Jack - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Olson To: Michael Paz Cc: kbhla@fastmail.fm; joni@smoe.org Sent: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 9:40 am Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Joni did have some run-ins with Frank: http://www.united-mutations.com/m/joni_mitchell.htm "joni mitchell sat in with us last night during the second show and we improvised a thing that was really good. and we ended it with her singing 'duke of earl'. really far out, she came on stage: 'now ok and we're going to improvise this thing...' and we did a few chords for her and she started reciting this poem which began: 'penelope wants to fuck the sea..." and the audience did a double take 'yuuunk!'... a little hush falls over the fillmore... joni mitchell?" -zappa, 1970 Also, when Joni was living in Laurel Canyon, Frank was renting the guest house on the same property (this was discussed on this list 5 or 6 years ago). ~Dan On 1/16/08, Michael Paz wrote: > > Hi Kakki > I agree and disagree sort of. When other producers have been heavy > handed and tried to over produce her this watered down effect has > happened. But I think some of the loves of her life have been an > influence and/or an inspiration that has had a positive effect on the > music when she has maintained control of the overall production. The > WTRF album for instance I think she was head over heals in love and > she made an album that to this day makes me feel like I am in love > again. I know Klein was all over the place during those sessions, but > ultimately I think she maintained production control. Also when David > Crosby was producing her by NOT producing her. I really would have > loved to hear DED as a Joni only album. And wouldn't it have been > interesting if Joni would have a relationship with Frank Zappa?!?!?!?!? > > Love > > Paz on the way to see The Crazy Cuban and Jimmy Stewart > > michael@thepazgroup.com > > Tour Manager > Preservation Hall Jazz Band > http://www.preservationhall.com > > > > > On Jan 16, 2008, at 1:03 AM, > wrote: > > I think the problem some have with DED is it doesn't sound like the > Joni we > knew and loved. It's weird, but I think the album technically is very > well > done and the lyrics alone are some of her absolute best. (I converted a > friend to Joni just by having him read the lyrics). To some there is > just way > too much of Klein and others' influence diluting the pure Joni here. > I have > heard and maybe Joni has also said somewhere that Klein wanted her to > sound > more 80s to be more saleable and popular. Bad move for the Joni > purists. I > think Klein's production work with several other artist, such as Shawn > and > Julia Fordham, is just wonderful. But I don't think Joni's music can be > collaborated - it ends up being compromised and watered down. It's > like if > you really love a prime cut of steak, medium rare, perfectly cooked > and then > someone trying to be innovative serves you that same prime cut > smothered in > some kind of weird rosemary and fennel sauce. Ruined ;-) Can you > imagine DED > done completely Joni style? It would have been a totally different > work. I > did not like the Klein production values and influence on her albums. > That is > why when I first heard the song Night Ride Home one evening on a crowded > freeway, I immediately spun off at the next exit to get to a music > store to > pick it up. I was finally hearing Joni's "voice" again like I had > remembered > it. > > So, bottom line, it is a very good album, but it is not all our Joni > and that > is why some have a slight aversion to it. > > Kakki ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:49:00 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Mojo > ..As far as Baez goes..It couldn't have been > that deep a riff since Joni did participate in the Bred and Roses festival > and > wasn't that founded by Mimi Farina(joan's sister) Yes, and Joan Baez played at all the B&R festivals. In fact, didn't Joni & Joan perform "Dida" together? I think I was there!...unless I am confused and it was a different B&R with Baez and Ann Wilson? Re: Monika's earlier question about "Ladie's Man"- I first heard it at Bread & Roses before WTRF came out. I was in the 15th or so row trying to woo a girl with cocaine... haven't done that chit in 20 years, but wonder if Joni saw me...(it was a day show)....(this was fall 1980)...more synchronicity..when WTRF came out, we had grey Arabian horses that looked exactly like the ones on the cover, and I had just married Carol (who's kids were grown & gone). Those B&R shows were incredible for the sheer amount of great acts...too many to list. I remember, Howard Hesseman came out and tried to do a comedy "tweener" set...only it wasn't remotely funny (and I know remotely funny). At one point he said "I want to tell this dirty joke that I heard back- stage...I won't say who told it to me....(pause)...it was Joni Mitchell." ...then he didn't tell the dang thing...how annoying... lol...and of course besides doing a set on acoustic guitar, Joni joined BB King & band for a disastrous stab at "Coyote" and "The Thrill is Gone." The solo set was wonderful, though. RR ps I always thought the famous Amnesty Int'l water balloon hit the stage at Joni's feet...her famous quip: "Hey, quit pitching shit up here-I'm not that bad, dig?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:59:13 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: New Cover Hey, Bob. Did you get Okkervil River's Blonde in the Bleachers? A rave from Rolling Stone: But the highlight [of Golden Opportunities] is the cover of Joni Mitchell's somber avant-jazz piece, "The Blonde in the Bleachers," for which Sheff recorded his vocals in the stairwell of a hotel in Germany. The thing is so pristinely cut that you can even hear an irritated cleaning lady making a fuss a few floors below. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:24:53 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Mojo Ah, what a tease! That would have been great to have had that joke told so you could have relayed it here! I'm curious but oh well. I bet even if it was a dangerous stab, I'm sure that was quite interesting--Joni with B.B. King and his band. I'd love to have seen that. -Monika Randy Remote wrote: > great acts...too many to list. I remember, Howard Hesseman came out and tried to do a comedy "tweener" set...only it wasn't remotely funny (and I know remotely funny). At one point he said "I want to tell this dirty joke that I heard back- stage...I won't say who told it to me....(pause)...it was Joni Mitchell." ...then he didn't tell the dang thing...how annoying... lol...and of course besides doing a set on acoustic guitar, Joni joined BB King & band for a disastrous stab at "Coyote" and "The Thrill is Gone." The solo set was wonderful, though. RR ps I always thought the famous Amnesty Int'l water balloon hit the stage at Joni's feet...her famous quip: "Hey, quit pitching shit up here-I'm not that bad, dig?" - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:36:38 -0800 From: Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Paz wrote: "The WTRF album for instance I think she was head over heals in love and she made an album that to this day makes me feel like I am in love again" I know - when I first heard WTRF, I was so happy because Joni had been missing in action for too many years at that point and I was starving for new Joni compositions. Still, I love those songs so much more when they are stripped down to the bare essence. "Also when David Crosby was producing her by NOT producing her." Well, yeah but they mucked it up somehow with the recording tapes, right? ;-) But I actually loved the imperfections in it and thought they were intentional! " I really would have loved to hear DED as a Joni only album." Is there still a quest to find the holy grail of the "unplugged" DED demos? Simon? Bob? "And wouldn't it have been interesting if Joni would have a relationship with Frank Zappa?!?!?!?!?" Hee, I actually would have loved to hear that collaboration no matter how it turned out! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:35:49 -0800 From: Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Paz wrote: "The WTRF album for instance I think she was head over heals in love and she made an album that to this day makes me feel like I am in love again" I know - when I first heard WTRF, I was so happy because Joni had been missing in action for too many years at that point and I was starving for new Joni compositions. Still, I love those songs so much more when they are stripped down to the bare essence. "Also when David Crosby was producing her by NOT producing her." Well, yeah but they mucked it up somehow with the recording tapes, right? ;-) But I actually loved the imperfections in it and thought they were intentional! " I really would have loved to hear DED as a Joni only album." Is there still a quest to find the holy grail of the "unplugged" DED demos? Simon? Bob? "And wouldn't it have been interesting if Joni would have a relationship with Frank Zappa?!?!?!?!?" Hee, I actually would have loved to hear that collaboration no matter how it turned out! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:54:01 -0800 From: Subject: Robben Ford - Joni related Oooo, oooo! Joni band member Robben Ford (Hissing and Miles of Aisles) is on tour coming to a town near you! And he is playing a 2 week stretch with fellow Joni band alum Larry Carlton at the end of February, beginning of March. Link below to the tour dates. He is also playing here in L.A. at Catalina Jazz Club March 14 - 16 and Soho in Santa Barbara for Kate on January 30th. (Sherelle, he is also a Michael McDonald alum so I hope you can catch him!). I love reading his bio - influenced by the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Clapton, Led Zep and Jimi back in the day and went on to play in Miles Davis' band. I have tried to see him for years - it is rare when he tours - so check him out! http://www.robbenford.com/RobbenFordMain.html Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:28:13 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Lori wrote : Then again, for me, Joni's albums have always provided a soundtrack for what was happening in my life at the time I discovered each of them, whether I bought them as they were released or happened upon older ones in used record stores or friends' collections. I can relate to this statement and i think many of us do too. Funny because we all have our own life experiences and yet somehow Joni's poetry is the universal link, like all great writings i suppose. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:43:38 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Right. What thyme is dinner, then? Do you mean "Shine" style, or the BSN style? Or the bedroom-style-wrote-it-on-me-Appalachian-dulcimer style, or the LA-Express-style? All the best, Jim The newbie, Kakki said, >It's like if you really love a prime cut of steak, medium rare, perfectly cooked and then someone trying to be innovative serves you that same prime cut smothered in some kind of weird rosemary and fennel sauce. Ruined ;-) Can you imagine DED done completely Joni style? It would have been a totally different work.> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:20:22 -0500 From: relliea@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #537 I found this thread so interesting. As a long time JMDL lurker?(since 1998) I've written a couple of?folks off line about?three Joni concerts I attended?at the?Berkeley Community theater?in the early 70's.?I think it was?the March?of?72' concert when I?bumped?into?Joan Baez in the ladies rest room at intermission. We spoke for a minute about how wonderful Joni's?show was so I was?shocked to read here that?Joan?didn't?even like Joni.? Joan Baez?was certainly gracious and?praising?Joni's?talent that night.???? As for Baez, well I'd be more surprised if I actually read somewhere that she liked someone..anyone...other than herself. ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:15:00 -0600 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Dog Eat Dog Like and Dislike Thank God for other folks who just wanna hear more.. Love Paz (Jimmy, Ed, David and MIngus all gave me a reception worthy of Kings or Queens depending... Great dinner and company and what a blessing to be able to share with so many close friends along my path) Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Jan 16, 2008, at 7:35 PM, wrote: Paz wrote: "The WTRF album for instance I think she was head over heals in love and she made an album that to this day makes me feel like I am in love again" I know - when I first heard WTRF, I was so happy because Joni had been missing in action for too many years at that point and I was starving for new Joni compositions. Still, I love those songs so much more when they are stripped down to the bare essence. "Also when David Crosby was producing her by NOT producing her." Well, yeah but they mucked it up somehow with the recording tapes, right? ;-) But I actually loved the imperfections in it and thought they were intentional! " I really would have loved to hear DED as a Joni only album." Is there still a quest to find the holy grail of the "unplugged" DED demos? Simon? Bob? "And wouldn't it have been interesting if Joni would have a relationship with Frank Zappa?!?!?!?!?" Hee, I actually would have loved to hear that collaboration no matter how it turned out! Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #431 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)