From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #425 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 12 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 425 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni and Maureen and Judy [Jerry Notaro ] Sentence of solitude [Michel BYRNE ] JoniQuiz Pt. 9 (or 10, i forgot) : WTRF [Rian Afriadi ] Joni (in the portable toilet line) in Fiction [Patti Parlette ] Re: "shuck & jive" -- tangental Joni content [Victor Johnson ] You Dream Flat Tires? [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Chuck Mitchell [JOSEPHBMCGOWAN@aol.com] Great Joni Photos on Ebay [Merk54@aol.com] Don Juan's Reckless Quetzalcoatl ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Album and Song polls [Eric Taylor ] Re: Clapton overated who are the true Guitarists ?????? ["andrew neave" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:17:33 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Joni and Maureen and Judy I9ve always thought Maureen McGovern to be the great singer of her generation. I9ve seen her in concert many times, and in most of her Broadway shows. She is doing a new show at the Metropolitan Room. I appreciate her mentioning Judy Collins as a songwriter: I focused on the iconoclastic singer-songwriters from that time: the Joni Mitchells, the James Taylors, Dylan I started out as a folk singer in the late '60s playing guitar with the long blonde hair. So it was really very nostalgic for me to go back before "The Morning After" [and see] what influenced me then. Again, Joni Mitchell, James Taylor, Laura Nyro, I love. Jimmy Webb his song "The Moon's a Harsh Mistress," to me, is one of the greatest songs ever written. It's just an extraordinary art song, basically. And, Carole King and Paul Simon and, of course, Lennon and McCartney are honorary members of the second half of the Great American Songbook. They're just songs that resonated with me. Judy Collins, I'm a huge fan of hers. I was going to do "My Father" because she is a wonderful songwriter as well. I lost my dad a few years back, and it was just a little bit too hard to do right now, but eventually we will include that along the way. I do two songs that I remember very vividly loving hearing [Judy Collins] sing as a kid, "Carry It On" and "The Coming of the Roads" by Billy Edd Wheeler. Gorgeous, gorgeous piece. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:23:29 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: Sentence of solitude Thanks for some very thoughtful responses to Joni's sweeping generalisation - she does seem to trade in these, unfortunately - they're maybe good at sparking debate but in my opinion shed very little light. I only wish all these recent interviews with her had concentrated on the music. The most interesting to me were the conversation with Herbie Hancock, in the jazz magazine, and her comments on Shine's individual tracks. I'll happily ignore all her other pronouncements! She's a great musician/artist, NOT a seer. Question for all you impressively thoughtful intelligent Joniphiles: how do you interpret: 'the sentence of this solitude, 200 years on hold' in 'Come in from the Cold' (NRH)? Is it meant to indicate the beginnings of modern, scientific, non-religious society? the price of women's liberation (seen as starting c. 1800)? or what ?... Suggestions very gratefully received. All the best in 2008. Michel _________________________________________________________________ Telly addicts unite! http://www.searchgamesbox.com/tvtown.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:30:14 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: JoniQuiz Pt. 9 (or 10, i forgot) : WTRF Yes! Wild Quizzes Run Fast! Monika made me listen to the album again and again, and then suddenly... another quiz was created. 1. Which WTRF song is the most perfect song to cheer someone who has just became a victim of a theft? a. Moon At The Window b. You Dream Flat Tires c. Man To Man d. Underneath The Streetlight e. Wild Things Run Fast (Thanks 2 Joni for writing the song, and thanks 2 Marian for pointing the song weeks ago) 2. What is the name of post-Mingus-Tour tour? a. You Dream Flat Tires Tour b. Underneath The Streetlight Tour c. Love Tour d. Wild Things Run Fast Tour e. Refugee of The Roads Tour 3. Which verse is not on Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody? a. Christmas is sparkling Out on Carol's lawn This girl of my childhood games With kids nearly grown and gone Grown too fast Like the turn of a page We look like our mothers did now When we were those kids' age b. Uranium money Is booming in the old home town now It's putting up sleek concrete Tearing the old landmarks down now Paving over brave little parks Ripping off Indian land again How long how long Short sighted business men c. Caught in the middle Carol we're middle class We're middle aged We were wild in the old days Birth of rock 'n' roll days Now your kids are coming up straight And my child's a stranger I bore her But I could not raise her d. Time goes - where does the time go I wonder where the time goes 4. True or False : WTRF is Joni's album that contains the word "love" the most. 5. Which song is the album's first single? a. Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody b. Underneath The Streetlight c. Wild Things Run Fast d. You're So Square Baby I Dont Care e. Man To Man 6. Where can you find this : "Hot dog darlin'"? a. You Dream Flat Tires b. Solid Love c. Underneath The Streetlight d. Dog Eat Dog e. Wild Things Run Fast f. Rian Afriadi's disgusting "Eat Dog NJC" post. 7. Yes I do I love you! I swear on the disco sparkle dark I do I swear on the be-bop boys Chasing the black bird .......... a. All night the trucks roll b. Rock 'n roll broadcast c. Gay boys with their pants so tight d. Underneath the streetlight e. One shadow cursing 8. Track order. Arrange these: (1) Moon At The Window (2) You Dream Flat Tires (3) Solid Love (4) Be Cool (5) (Youre So Square) Baby I Dont Care (6) Man To Man (7) Ladies Man 9. True or False : Wild Things Run Fast (the song) (02:16) is Joni's shortest song. (Suppose all raps on Mingus are not songs) 10. True or False : Joni's then husband played bass on the album. 11. I don't like to lie / But I sure can be ..... when I get scared (from Man To Man) 12. What is the name of narcotic mentioned on Ladies' Man? a. LED b. Nicotine c. Heroine d. Ecstasy e. Pot 13. It takes cheerful resignation / ....... (from Moon At The Window) a. Heart and humility b. Heart and humor and humility c. That's all it takes d. How could they be e. And moon at the window 14. 'Cause love is precious love Everybody knows it's precious When first they feel that fire Before they dream flat tires They dream flat tires .......... a. They dream flat tires b. You dream flat tires c. Love is precious d. When you dream flat tires e. Flat tires 15. True or False : WTRF is Joni's last pre-BSN studio album that contains more than 10 tracks. Rian NP. Feist  My Moon My Man NR. Jeffrey Sach  The End of Poverty (this Economics book is informative, not boring, and so easy to digest even for non-economists) - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: "shuck & jive" -- tangental Joni content Cuomo's 'shuck and jive' comment spurs controversy BY ERIK GERMAN | erik.german@newsday.com; Staff writer Meli January 11, 2008 ALBANY - If you asked the bloggers yesterday, State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo stepped on a rhetorical land mine when he used the racially charged phrase "shuck and jive" while discussing the Democratic presidential primary in a recent radio interview. Speaking Tuesday to the New York Post's Fred Dicker, whose show airs on Albany's Talk 1300 radio station, Cuomo said of the early primaries: "It's not a TV-crazed race. Frankly, you can't buy your way through." He added later, "You have to sit down with 10 people in a living room. You can't shuck and jive at a news conference; you can't just put off reporters, because you have real people looking at you, saying 'answer the question.'" The 1994 book "Juba to Jive, a Dictionary of African-American Slang," says "shuck and jive" dates back to the 1870s and was an "originally southern 'Negro' expression for clowning, lying, pretense." A truncated version of Cuomo's quote appeared first on the Albany Times Union's Capital Confidential blog Wednesday with the claim - later clarified - that he was talking about "Hillary's win in New Hampshire." Like a virus, the notion that Cuomo had made a racially insensitive remark about Barack Obama's loss leapt from Web site to Web site yesterday. Politico.com entered the quote into its so-called "department of word choice." Wonkette.com. called the term "racist." But several sites, including Newsday's SpinCycle blog, posted updates after hearing from Cuomo. "The attorney general was clearly saying that Iowa and New Hampshire were important primaries because the candidates could not duck the tough questions," said Cuomo spokesman Jeffrey Lerner. "He clearly meant no offense to either candidate because he was praising both in the interview. 'Bob and weave' would have been a better phrase; that's certainly all the attorney general meant." Joseph Mercurio, a New York City-based Democratic media consultant, said he doesn't think Cuomo hurt himself seriously. "Everybody's being a little politically correct," Mercurio said. "I think he had enough support from black voters in his campaign that this isn't going to be a big issue." Perhaps Mercurio knows. He currently works for Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.), whose January 2007 remark that Obama was the first black presidential candidate "who is articulate and bright and clean," drew wide criticism but didn't end his Senate career. But Temple University's Nathaniel Norment Jr., a professor of African-American studies, said the history of the Cuomo's phrase made it inappropriate because it springs from an ugly period of our past. It refers to "how black people had to behave in the presence of white people to survive. You have to shuck and jive or buck dance; you're putting on an act," Norment said. "In the context of a presidential election, I think it's very derogatory to say." Staff writer Melissa Mansfield contributed to this story In his words Cuomo's comments on the early contests, from a transcript supplied by his office: "It's not a TV-crazed race, you know, you can't just buy your way through that race ... It doesn't work that way, it's frankly a more demanding process. You have to get on a bus, you have to go into a diner, you have to shake hands, you have to sit down with 10 people in a living room. "You can't shuck and jive at a press conference, you can't just put off reporters, because you have real people looking at you saying answer the question, you know, and all those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room. "And I think it's good for the candidates. I think it makes the candidates communicate in a way that works with real people because you know in a living room right away whether or not you're communicating. And I think the questions are good and I think the scrutiny is good ..." - --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:12:12 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: Joni (in the portable toilet line) in Fiction Bon weekend, tout le Jonimonde! All of this talk about Woodstock and port-a-potties reminded me of this, from our Joni in Fiction section maintained by M. le SoB: She's Come Undone by Wally Lamb 1998 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Naomi laughed. "That was the thing about Woodstock. You didn't think of people as individuals. We were all this . . . mass entity." "Oh," I said. "Right." She must have seen my disappointment. "I was two people back from Joni Mitchell in the portable toilet line, though," she said. "Joni Mitchell used the public toilets?" "Well, yeah. See, the whole point was that we're all one, you know? You and me and Joni and your tall, skinny friend: a bunch of equals sharing the same small planet. It was a rush - very political!" "Yeah," I said. "You bet your bippy." From Page 213: Pocket Books Paperback Edition Contributed by Kerry Nikutta 11/30/2004 **** I went to Wally's publication party/book-signing for "I'll Fly Away" last September and was prepared to ask him if he knew that Joni did not attend Woodstock, but the line was really really long (good for Wally!) and I had somewhere else to be and had to fly away myself. But for sure, next time I run into him (he lives in my town) I will chat him up about Joni. He talked about his next novel. He's been working on it a long time (in between helping women at York Correctional Institution learn to write and set their souls free) and he hopes to finish it soon. He said it's about a man with a drug-addicted spouse who is a nurse. At another community event (Walk For Warmth) in December, he said it's about being the spouse of a Columbine survivor. So there's a little scoop for all you Wally fans eagerly awaiting his next novel. The world needs more Wally Lambs, if you ask me. He is a man of heart and mind. Love and peace (still holding that baton after all these years!), Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista. + Windows Live. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:09:37 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: "shuck & jive" -- tangental Joni content Sorry, bloggers. I've been hearing and using that phrase for more than 40 years. It was and may still be common among jazz musicians of every race. To call Cuomo insensitive or racist because he used the phrase would indicate to me that someone is desperately trying to embarrass Cuomo. The context makes Cuomo's use of the phrase perfectly traditional and appropriate. DAVID LAHM ps what is the Joni connection here? **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:35:04 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "shuck & jive" -- tangental Joni content - --- Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > > ps what is the Joni connection here? > > Those cannibals of shuck and jive They'll eat a working girl like her alive. Name the song. No prize because I'm cheap, just the warm glow of feeling right and righteous. ;-) Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:30:45 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Clapton overated Hey, Andrew, go easy on the name-calling, bud. Clapton is judged by many to be a super-star as well as a guitarist. I think Bob called him "a technician". (I feel that way about Pat Metheny.) Muller thinks Clapton doesn't live up to his superstar "hype" and that's a personal thing. It can't be measured or ruled "wrong". Clapton leaves him cold. I'm just a guest here but some people have been thrown off for name-calling. You would be wise to "agree to disagree". Me? I think he made lots of boring tracks but made up for them with "Motherless Children", "Badge", & the original version of "Layla" (admittedly much of the credit goes to Duane Allman and NONE of it to the recording engineers), etc. I think Clapton is like a studio player who got a good agent, who hired a really good publicist. Jim L. np in the living room: "For Once In My Life" by Stevie Wonder on an automated classic-rock station From: "andrew neave" said in part, >I suppose that Hendrix was stupid like you !!> >If your only joking !!!!!!!! how stupid again> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:42:36 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: "shuck & jive" -- tangental Joni content On Jan 11, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > > >> >> ps what is the Joni connection here? >> >> > > Those cannibals of shuck and jive > They'll eat a working girl like her alive. > > Name the song. The Jungle Line ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:40:01 -0800 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Clapton overrated now JC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Remote" To: "Monika Bogdanowicz" ; "Joni people!" Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 11:21 AM Subject: Re: Clapton overrated NJC > From: "Monika Bogdanowicz" >> The author commented how as soon as they stepped out on the stage >> in the mid 70's everyone went beserk and after every song, even >> though the concert he saw was not good Now I don't know if it all >> started out in the 70's > > The hysteria at Beatles concerts '64-'66 was even worse. No one > knew if the music was good or not-they couldn't hear it. Going > back to the forties, Sinatra had screaming bobby soxers wetting > their pants and such...so hero worship was already there. I would > say it's more of an American thing. If you listen to the live > concerts > of the same bands in Europe, people listened, and clapped at the > end, > although I think maybe that has changed, too. > RR This is one of things that has always impressed me about Miles of Aisles. The audiences listened and held their applause until the last note faded away on almost every song. My impression has always been that Joni had them all spellbound. They wanted to drink in every word and note. And most of them probably knew exactly where the songs were supposed to end. There is much more to be said for audiences who are that respectful of an artist's work that they actually give it their full attention from beginning to end. A much more meaningful tribute than screaming all the way through, imo. My memory may be faulty because I haven't listened to it for a long time but it seems to me that the Shadows and Light audiences were quite a bit rowdier. Mark in Seattle. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 19:58:28 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: You Dream Flat Tires? I have a question concerning the song, "You Dream Flat Tires" from WTRF (an album which I have been listening to recently quite a bit). First off, I really like the song. I love the guitar part in the very beginning, which actually repeats throughout the song, the melody, and really the beat of the song. It's sort of a rocker to these ears. Anyway, back to the point....and my question. I understand that the song is talking about people in love (and the speaker in love) when in the beginning they feel the "fire"...have passion...are excited, etc etc. I also understand, or think I understand the notion of dreaming flat tires when things go astray in love. That seems to be the metaphor for when love turns bleak, yes? One starts to dream of such things... My question is this. Is "dreaming flat tires" a common saying or was it a common phrase once or was this image something Joni made up in her song (serving its purpose quite well though)? -Monika - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:04:33 EST From: JOSEPHBMCGOWAN@aol.com Subject: Chuck Mitchell My Friend and Joni's Ex _Chuck Mitchell_ (http://www.mitchellsong.com/) now Has his Own Web-Site. Do give it a Peek. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:17:54 EST From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Great Joni Photos on Ebay I just saw this auction for Joni photos and loved them so much I decided to buy them, If they look half as cool as the slide show I'll be thrilled. Check it out. _http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300188398573&ssPageNa me=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=020_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300188398573&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=020) Jack **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:49:56 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Don Juan's Reckless Quetzalcoatl When's the last time you visited your secret place? I think you're hanging with the wrong people my friend. >Am i "growling"? ET< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:54:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Eric Taylor Subject: Re: Album and Song polls Les Irvin (not the London dude) philed: >>A couple people have mentioned that the song and album polls on JMDL were a bit behind the times. Today I (finally) added Shine and updated the polls for the new year. Cast your vote here: http://jmdl.com/poll/albumpoll.cfm and here: http://jmdl.com/poll/songpoll.cfm << INTERESTING poll results, Les! I agree with most of these results. But i was unable to figure out how to vote for my faves in both links. Perhaps you should add a big red VOTE link & more philes would participate..... I would personally vote Borderline as her number one song but it would be impossible for me to pick Joni's best album! Again thanx for all the voodoo that you do ;~D ET ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:10:44 -0800 From: "andrew neave" Subject: Re: Clapton overated who are the true Guitarists ?????? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" To: Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: Re: Clapton overated > Hey, Andrew, go easy on the name-calling, bud. Clapton is judged by > many to be a super-star as well as a guitarist. I think Bob called him > "a technician". (I feel that way about Pat Metheny.) > >One thing for shure all of the Guitarists around now 2008 are so overated that I cant even name them, every one of them accept a certain John Mayer perhaps and he loves to hang around with Eric Clapton like he did at the Crossroads concert, funny that ???? It seems to me that some of you dont like long Guitar Solo's full stop Pat Metheny on acoustic guitar has encredible feeling in his playing What is this term Technician about Mmmmm I suppose Jaco Pastorious and Chick Corea are both Technician Your problem is that your not prepared to name the Guitarist Bass Player or keyboard player that you think are supreme ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #425 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)