From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #423 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, January 10 2008 Volume 2007 : Number 423 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: new joni interview in mojo [Bruce Eggleston "an honest take" [Bruce Eggleston ] Paste's top 100 songwriters ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: Paste's top 100 songwriters [Victor Johnson ] Re: Sex Kills -->"an honest take" ["Randy Remote" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 00:49:31 -0700 From: Bruce Eggleston Subject: Re: new joni interview in mojo First of all, I am one of those to whom the baton was passed, I'm 57 years old, and I have participated in many of the notable trends, tasks, parties, fears, grooves, failures and successes of the Sixties generation. Kate and Randy's statements below are right on, I wished I had written them. I could, and should, write a book about this subject. I shall restrain myself here, and just address the tasks and successes upon which my (our) generation might lay claim. I did not read the Mojo interview with Ms. Mitchell, so I can't comment, but the statement quoted below is so broad a generalization as to be meaningless, except as a very personal view from a very famously sequestered individual. My (our) generation is still very actively changing the world in thousands of subtle ways. I am a city planner, I plan cities with the knowledge and attitude of one who believes that peace and love will prevail. My wife is a school teacher who teaches the next generations about peace and love and how it will prevail. Most of our peers have conducted careers in which they propagated the ideals of the Sixties in some fashion. This is the real world for the Sixties generation, going to work every day to make some kind of difference, however small. I have not been depressed one day in my life, nor has depression been the hallmark of the Sixties generation, nor have the people I know allowed greed to dominate their lives. The real revolutionaries are still in the classrooms, the board rooms, the operating rooms, the halls of justice, and down on the farm, making some kind of difference every day. They have raised families, built towns, designed transportations systems, invented ways to travel in space and made some righteous music and art. This has been going on since the Sixties, so for forty years this generation has had an enormous influence on the way this world has evolved, for better or worse. On the world stage there have some leaders from my generation, but very little peace and love has become institutionalized as a result. That fact does not mean that an entire generation has failed. To say so is very one-dimensional. This is, I suppose, the issue that Joni was addressing in her statement below. Her assumption is wrong in that we weren't all revolutionaries, many of us realized that someone had to stay home and feed the livestock and bake the bread. The ideals put forth by the revolutionaries did not fall on fallow ground, and parts of that teaching still goes on. I would like to add to Randy's list the ideas of sustainable communities and new urbanism in urban planning that will have a decided and profound effect on the way the generations will live, work and appreciate the glories of living; the Peace Corps; a pursuit of spiritual meaning, not necessarily in the context of organized religions; and, a dose of hedonism and plain fun in the pursuit of happiness. In many ways, you, my dear younger readers, are products of the Sixties, or have gained or suffered from the influences. I hope you find ideas from that time that will snap you up sharp and put your groove on. It is what keeps me going. My mantra from the day has been that "You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem." I get up every day and become part of the solution. Ms. Mitchell's art and music are definitely part of the solution, and I hope she can find a context where that brings her fulfillment and the knowledge that the endeavors of the Sixties generation have bettered the world in many ways. All this positive energy has advanced the race a bit, even though political power has continued to corrupt those who pursue it, regardless of age or background. Bonneville Bruce On the path of the peaceful warrior > Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:45:05 -0800 > From: "Randy Remote" > Subject: Re: new joni interview in mojo > > From: "Kate Bennett" > > >> Joni has made a huge sweeping generalization, one that rings very >> false to >> me. > > I agree. For one thing- what effing baton was passed? When did > this happen? Reagan's crowd came from the Nixon camp, and > went on to Bush's. There was never any transfer of power. The > corporate culture has only consolidated it's control and power, > and the media, which controls the discussion, is part of that. > And yet, in the 70's, the 60's generation managed, without > any help from the mainstream establishment, to instigate the > following world-changing movements: > Civil rights > The modern feminist movement > Stopped Vietnam > Free clinics > The modern ecological movement > Organic farming/food > Herbal/natural medicine/alternative health > Alternative media: free-form FM, newspapers, TV and news > Pioneered alternative power > Personal computers and the world wide web > Overhauled the Barbie & Ken 50's fashions > Revolutionized music, art, literature, etc > And you know, Joni, there may be more! While it's true > that many (esp rock stars) got mired in drugs and > self-centered behavior, others rolled up their sleeves > and got to work on what needed doing. You know it > never has been easy whether you do or don't resign- > but don't disregard the work that has been accomplished, > and continues. > RR > >> "In their youth, my generation was ready to change the world, but >> when the >> baton was passed to them in the '70s, they fell into a mass >> depression >> because all revolutionaries are quick to demolish and slow to fix. >> When >> handed the baton to fix it, they didn't know what to do so they >> kind of >> degenerated into the greediest generation in the history of America: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:42:10 -0700 From: Bruce Eggleston Subject: Re: Sex Kills -->"an honest take" Dear Dave, Thanks for bringing up "an honest take". These are almost a requisite for my musical enjoyment. I'm several albums into a career as a recording engineer and producer, so I have some insight on how difficult it is to get that "live-in-the-studio-no-fixes take". My enjoyment is doubled knowing that a given song is an honest take. Joni's early catalog seems replete with honest takes, even though I don't know of any particular songs that were indeed such takes. I open the floor here, how many honest takes are on Joni's studio albums? I read an interview with Crosby who said that he just got out of Joni's way on STAS, which I take to mean that there was very little over-dubbing going on in that studio. Bonneville Bruce NP - Hotel California > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 07:09:23 -0800 > From: Dave Blackburn > Subject: Roine Stolt - Sex Kills > > Yeah Bob that's great....cool voice, tasty guitarist and funky band > too. Looks like that might be a live-in-the-studio-no-fixes take > also, another rarity these days (what I like to call "an honest > take".) > > Is he Dutch or German? > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 13:01:37 -0800 (PST) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: Bo on a lovely Wed. Afternoon Hey! Just read the Digest. CONGRATULATIONS, Cassy!!!!!!!!! Hope your big day begins a life filled withlasting love!!!! Bob...thanks for the NetFlix advise...I used to belong...think I'll join. I listened to Roine Stolt's "Sex Kills". Yep...it has more kick to it than Joni....but it's so unlike Joni. Here's a true confession from the 'authentic' me (I really dislike that authentic thing....so popular in the mental health field in the '60's and '70's...Carl Rogers gave that word birth...I think...long time ago). Back to me, the 'authentic' one....I have trouble with Joni covers. NOT being a musician may have something to do with this...I don't know. I do know that when I hear a cover I long to hear Joni. But, I also think covers are interesting...stimulating....but I know I miss a lot. Do you know what I mean? But I love my "PazFest"!!!!! Want to LAUGH???? I'm such a glunk...is that a word?...a not with it...but I always was so, so with it...this is an expression of being 57...in my head, I'm all ages....I look in the mirror and I recognize that silly grin smirking back at me...I thought if you stay thin you look more like you did when you were younger...but stuff moves around and DOWN....(any wankers yet?)....okay...so I rambled...another fancy-dancy with 57...the LAUGH...if it wasn't for you gorgeous, accepting of all, Joni people, old Bo wouldn't have known what UTUBE is!!!!! To me, that's hysterical.....ohmygod what is happening to me???? I was the kid...into my 40's, who knew every artist...every word from so many albums...and I like albums better than CD's...another authentic confession...not the SOUND...the art...the size. And, I can't do a complete split any more....sad, sad, sad for a former dancer. Betcha I can sing. People have told me so along life's skinny little streets in cities like Philly and NYC...not highways...who cares? I love to sing...love to dance...but...I'm in-touch BECAUSE of YOU! And I thank you and love all of you....and any skirmishes...love that word, Bob....I enjoy the freedom of our discussions...even if they may be skirmishy....just let me tell you this:it's a rough life to be born with such crazy, crazy LOVE for music, Joni, singing...and have no talent. Time for "Valley of the Dolls".....just kidding. Love U... Bo - --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 17:29:58 -0600 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Paste's top 100 songwriters Sorry if this has already been sent. I am just posting the top 50, but for excellent Joni content scroll to the top 10! Suze n.p. Beth Amsel, 'Michigan' 50. Public Enemy (Chuck D, Flavor Flav, Hank Shocklee, Eric Sadler, et al) 49. Cat Stevens 48. Gillian Welch & David Rawlings 47. Sufjan Stevens 46. David Byrne (Talking Heads) 45. Jackson Browne 44. Al Green 43. Ryan Adams (Whiskeytown) 42. Loretta Lynn 41. Ray Davies (The Kinks) 40. Burt Bacharach & Hal David 39. Led Zeppelin (Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, John Bonham) 38. Kris Kristofferson 37. Smokey Robinson 36. Beck Hansen 35. Steve Earle 34. John Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival) 33. Pete Townshend (The Who) 32. Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller 31. Carole King 30. John Prine 29. Tom Petty 28. Robbie Robertson (The Band) 27. Radiohead (Thom Yorke, Jonny Greenwood, Colin Greenwood, Ed O'Brien, Phil Selway) 26. R.E.M. (Peter Buck, Bill Berry, Mike Mills, Michael Stipe) 25. Chuck Berry 24. Jeff Tweedy (Wilco, Uncle Tupelo, Golden Smog, Loose Fur, etc.) 23. Elton John & Bernie Taupin 22. Lucinda Williams 21. Lou Reed (Velvet Underground) 20. Van Morrison 19. Patty Griffin 18. U2 (Bono, The Edge, Larry Mullen Jr., Adam Clayton) 17. Holland-Dozier-Holland 16. David Bowie 15. Willie Nelson 14. Stevie Wonder 13. Paul Simon 12. Mick Jagger & Keith Richards (The Rolling Stones) 11. Randy Newman The Top 10 10. Prince 9. Joni Mitchell 8. Elvis Costello 7. Brian Wilson (The Beach Boys) 6. Leonard Cohen 5. Paul McCartney (The Beatles, Wings) 4. Tom Waits & Kathleen Brennan 3. Bruce Springsteen 2. Neil Young (Buffalo Sprinfield, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young) 1. Bob Dylan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 20:03:00 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Paste's top 100 songwriters On Jan 9, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Sue Cameron wrote: > Sorry if this has already been sent. > > I am just posting the top 50, but for excellent Joni content scroll to > the top 10! > > Suze > I was wondering why John Lennon was left off but looked again at the heading and saw that it's the top 100 "living songwriters" which explains the omission. Although in a couple of other bands mentioned, they do credit people who have passed such as Syd Barret(Pink Floyd) and John Bonham (Led Zeppelin)...so a little inconsistent, not that it matters a whole lot in the great scheme of things. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:53:48 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Sex Kills -->"an honest take" From: "Bruce Eggleston" > Dear Dave, > Thanks for bringing up "an honest take". These are almost a requisite > for my musical enjoyment. I'm several albums into a career as a > recording engineer and producer, so I have some insight on how > difficult it is to get that "live-in-the-studio-no-fixes take". > I open the floor here, how many honest takes are on Joni's studio > albums? I guess only her hairdresser knows for sure. I would think that Dylan is the king of live takes, for the rock era anyway. Apparently Sinatra sang live with the orchestra on his records. To me it's the final result that matters; some of the greatest albums were overdub city, like Dark Side of the Moon and Sgt Pepper. In Joni's case, I would suspect that the earlier stuff (up to C&S) was done more or less live, but don't know that there is any hard info on that. RR ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #423 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)