From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #410 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, December 28 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 410 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully ["Marion Leffler" ] JoniQuiz Pt. 8 : SHINE [Rian Afriadi ] Re: Steely Dan Connection [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Steely Dan Connection [Em ] sjc 10 best list [Michael ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #409 [MattJones ] Re: SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully [Monika Bogdanowicz ] FW: Message from Website ["Les Irvin" ] SV: SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: Steely Dan Connection ["Dan Olson" ] Re: Steely Dan Connection [Mark-Leon Thorne ] sjc 10 best list ["Randy Remote" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:17:18 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully Monika, I think I know how you feel even though I am one of those who "has been with Joni for years". I did have a joniless period though and when I returned and found out she had announced her retirement I felt the way you do when somebody has died. (Dramatic, I know, but that's the kind of loss and sorrow I felt). By the way, I like your addition of NR! Hope you have a good time with Mrs Dalloway. Let me add an RR (recently read): The Cleft - Doris Lessing. Somehow I think that is a book Joni would appreciate. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Monika Bogdanowicz Skickat: den 28 december 2007 05:15 Till: Joni people! Dmne: Joni's exit not to be thankfully I was just thinking about how wonderful it is to still have Joni making music especially after she said she had retired. I know I've told you folks this before but I'll tell you again. One of the first things I read when I started getting into Joni was that she was done with music. Oh, how it filled me with sadness! It was an aching sadness even though there was still much of my Joni journey to be traveled! It was the sort of sadness when you lose touch with a good friend and something, somewhere reminds you of him/her, flooding you with all those warm memories you'll never again have. Now granted I had no Joni memories (unlike a good load of you folks who have been with Joni for years! Oh how I envy you!) but that is the sort of feeling I had. Anyway, more over, I was thinking about Joni's comment on the first time she said she wanted to retire from music. When did Joni say she first had the "urge" to retire? She got the urge for going but she didn't go. Didn't she say it was right after For The Roses when she was starting to feel a little fed up with the music business or whatever? Can you imagine if she stopped recording then? It would have been a nice, good five album run but man oh man look at what we would have missed! A life without the Hissing Of Summer Lawns or Hejira is a not a life worth living! Anyway, my apologies for this seemingly pointless email. I was just letting my stream of thoughts on Joni flow to those who may be able to take a swim in that stream and understand what I am saying. Shine on JMDL, shine on. -Monika NR (now reading): Mrs. Dalloway- Virginia Woolf - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 20:22:28 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Steely Dan Connection Hi Folks. I hope you're all having a great holiday season. I've been working in my new job but had Christmas Day and Boxing Day off and will be off for New Year's Day and January 2. It worked out well. What will you all be doing for New Year's Eve? I'm curious what people do in various parts of the world. I will be heading down to Balmain Wharf to watch the fireworks over Sydney Harbour. It's at the end of a large peninsula that sticks out into the harbour and has panoramic views of the harbour including Sydney Harbour Bridge which, incidentally, celebrates it's 75th birthday this year. The park there is the only place on the harbour shore that you can still find enough space to sit down. It's becoming a tradition. Now to some Joni. I have recently become a big fan of Steely Dan. Like it was when I got into Joni's music, I was always aware of their music but never really listened very carefully or took their music in. Now I am and am discovering their music afresh and taking notice of Donald Fagen's lyrics. The only connection I know of between Joni and Steely Dan is when Joni explained how she came up with the name, Hejira and mentioned that she liked the look of the word, Aja. As far as I can tell, Steely Dan's album, Aja came out earlier in the same year as Hejira. I was wondering if Joni was influenced by Steely Dan or the album, Aja beyond the title. The style of the two albums seem quite compatible to me. Does anyone else feel that? While listening to other Steely Dan albums, I noticed there are many other similarities. Both in musical style and lyrical style. Has Joni ever collaborated with Donald Fagen or Walter Becker? 1976 was when Joni really started to get curious about jazz and has mentioned that she began looking for people who were less rigid to play with. Was Steely Dan's loose style a spark in that discovery? Mark in Sydney NP Black Cow - Steely Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 02:58:45 -0800 (PST) From: Rian Afriadi Subject: JoniQuiz Pt. 8 : SHINE Hana says when the quiz sucks Don't cave in Don't put up a white flag Raise up Here it is. ENG: Shine GER: Scheinen INA: Sinar (see-nar) (a on nar is pronounced like u on fun) 1. To whom/ to what did Joni dedicate the album? a. Her daughter b. Her granddaughter and grandson c. Her ex-husband d. Trees e. The dying planet 2. "Money, money, money / Money ..." a. kicks the wide wide world around b. makes mountain into molehills c. makes this place looks like a moonscape d. makes Bill Gates worship satan e. makes the trees come down 3. Can't you see / Our destiny? / We are making this Earth / ..... a. On fire! b. Ring the funeral bells! c. Big bombs and barbed wire! d. Our funeral pyre! e. Back to this heavenly bliss 4. Which sentence is Hana's last said word? a. And they save ya b. And get a good grip on your grief! c. Dont put up a white flag d. Light the lamp e. This is no SUnday song 5. True or False : Shine peaked higher than Blue on US chart. 6. Cats, Hawks, Condors. What is the other animal mentioned on the song Bad Dreams? a. Bear b. Eagle c. Whale d. Crow e. Rabbit 7. True or False : "An arm and a leg" is the only lyric change found on BYT2007. 8. On which song can you find these words : vagrant, flagrant, fragrant? a. Bad dreams b. Hana c. Night of The Iguana d. Shine e. If 9. Men love war! / That's what history' s for/ .... a. His story b. A story c. Mass murder story d. History e. Our funeral pyre! 10. True or False: Bad Dreams is Joni's first piano-led song since Two Grey Rooms. 11. Shine on Wall Street and Vegas / ...... / Shine on the fishermen / ...... 12. Which "if" is not on Joni Mitchells If? (more than 1) a. If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, Andwhich is moreyou'll be a Man my son! b. If you can dreamand not make dreams your master; If you can thinkand not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same. c. If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss. d. If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too. e. If you wake at midnight, and hear a horse's feet, Don't go drawing back the blind, or looking in the street, Them that asks no questions isn't told a lie. Watch the wall, my darling, while the Gentlemen go by! 13. Where is the widow dancing? a. Near the church b. On the tour bus c. On the street d. On the beach 14. Arrange what Hana did first to last! (ah, too easy) (1) Rolls up her sleeves (2) Takes off her coat (3) Starts pitchin in (4) Sees what must be done (5) Steps out of a storm into a kitchen 15. What is Shine's another working title beside Strange Birds of Appetite? (The name of the album before Joni chose to name the album : Shine) a. If I Had A Heart b. Moonscape c. Gratitude d. Heal e. If Very easy bonus question but will make Phyllis Ward Ph.D mutter. (He hates numbers) (hey, mutter and number rhyme!) 16. Shine is Joni Mitchells .... studio album. a. 15th b. 16th c. 17th d. 18th e. 19th Rian NP. Snakes and Ladders NR. Still War And Peace Next : For The Quizzes Beware : difficult. - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:26:08 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Steely Dan Connection Ah, what a tingly feeling I get thinking about two of my all-time favorite albums in the same thought....Hejira & Aja. Firstly, Hejira came first in 1976, Aja was released in 1977. Aja was, however, the first album that Becker & Fagen assembled on the West Coast - they had previously done their recording in NY. It's possible (but I've not seen anything written about it) that there was some studio cross-over, when both albums were being recorded, but again none that I've ever read about. And while I LOVE both of these albums will all of my heart & soul, I think they are very different; Aja being very rigidly produced while Hejira has a much looser feeling to me. A similarity: both contain literary language that you won't find in anyone else's songs. "I crawl like a viper through these suburban streets - make love to these women, languid & bittersweet." "Whether you travel the breadth of extremeties, or stick to some straighter line" All that being said - Joni is definitely an admirer of their craft...she selected "Third World Man" for her Hear Music "Artist's Choice" album, and from the same SD album she selected "Gaucho" to play on her "My Top 12" appearance on BBC radio, introducing it with comments about how she liked SD's music. There was a rumor back when the Reprise Joni Tribute was being assembled that SD had recorded a cover of "Carey" for it, but those rumors were NOT true. As for my New Year's, right now I have no plans - will most likely watch a movie and hit the sack long before the ball drops and Dick Clark rings in another rockin' New Year. But you never can tell - I was at a function last night with a lot of my local friends in the Greenville Arts community and got an invite to a New Year's fuzzy navel party, so maybe that invite will beckon. Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "Loose Ends" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:58:46 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Steely Dan Connection Mark wrote: > While listening to other Steely Dan albums, I noticed there are many > > other similarities. Both in musical style and lyrical style. Has Joni > > ever collaborated with Donald Fagen or Walter Becker? 1976 was when > Joni really started to get curious about jazz and has mentioned that > > she began looking for people who were less rigid to play with. Was > Steely Dan's loose style a spark in that discovery? Thinking at some point they both had a studio musician in common. Larry Carlton? To me Steely Dan's albums were much more "finished". So I don't see their style as "loose", at all. I think they were able to affect jazz "cool", to the point that it seemed "loose" but actually was not. The arrangements and production on some of that stuff remains just out of this world, over the top excellent - its like a machine gun of hipness. I get the feeling Joni and the SD guys probably stepped on the same ground in LA from time to time, but I don't know for sure. Was "the dude ranch above the sea" the same Banyan tree'd place as in LOTC? Probably no way to know... Occaisionally there'll be a twinge of something in a Joni piece that is reminiscent to me of SD. But, to me, not Hejira. Hejira is way more minimal in its instrumentation. Mostly C&S has the occaisinal Dan-ish instant. Damned if I can think what it is though. HOSL is nicely produced as-is, but of any Joni album, I could imagine the B&F treatment on that one. Joni's stuff is a lot looser and not so high octane, it relies more lon depth, and heart. SD's stuff is testosterone driven (in the best possible way). If music were high calorie, SD would make ya very fat from listening too much. Its like pork roast USED to be, back in the day when they didn't worry about trying to raise lean pigs. Back when pork didn't NEED to be the other white meat. (of course if you don't eat meat, that's probably a really gross comparison, sorry, lol) But Joni's imagery and delivery of the art are equal or superior, none the less. Joni's stuff is/was so personal...and SD's was not so much that way. Lets put it this way, SD has never made me cry, lol. I've wished on more than one occaision though, that she could have hooked up with B&F to produce an album. Although it *might* not have worked. Sometimes too much merged greatness just doesn't work out to best effect. Its like when DeNiro and Pacino finally made a flick together (where they both appeared on camera together, so, no, not Godfather II) it was just kind of anti-climactic and not a great movie by any means. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Listening to SD closely and in detail tires me out after a while. They just used to take one for a hell of a ride. Its like the difference between taking a plane ride in a Stearman bi-plane and the pilot forces barrel-rolls and dives on you, and maybe going up in a glider. Joni is the glider, and she catches magnificent drafts, and flies it high and low and thrills as much or more as the Stearman....but without the internal combustion or acrobatics. LOL, I could be FOS. ;) Em > "Please don't taunt the tiger." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:30:53 +0000 From: Michael Subject: sjc 10 best list Time to be thinking about changing that wall calendar and looking back on all the great moments of the past year. What a great year this has been for Joni fans - awards, ballet, art shows, and great new music. Here is my list of 10 cd's that brought me much pleasure in 2007.1. Shine - of course. How lucky we were this year to be treated, to not one, but two, Joniesque releases. And a Joni release is always cause for celebration. While her record was generally well received, it has failed to appear on any of the 10-best lists that I've seen so far. Whatever, it's certainly on mine.2. And, Herbie Hancock - River : the Joni Letters, follows as a close second. What a treat this album is. Can't beat his collaborators either, ahem, except for Leonard's offering !3. Coral Egan - Magnify. Soulful songs with a heart and a groove from one of the bright lights of the Montreal music scene.4. Feist - The Reminder. While not as ground-breaking as her previous release, Let it Die, this CD still ranks high above the masses of similar alt-pop efforts. Feist is glory bound for the Grammys this year, as this record appears on just about every top 10 list I've seen so far.5. Patty Griffin - Children Run Through. The voice. That strong, crystal clear voice, that goes straight to the heart. A stunner.6. Pascale Picard Band - Me Myself and Us. This upstart from Quebec City is riding a meteoric wave of critical and commercial success in this neck of the woods. Her tuneful Alanis-like debut record rocks great.7. Koop - Islands. I love this group. The electro pop, nu-jazz duo from Sweden attracts great collaborators. Swing cabaret. This album has spun around many times in my player over the last year.8. Claire Martin - He Never Mentioned Love. Britain's greatest jazz stylist pays hommage to the late, great, greater, greatest, Shirley Horn. Another show stopper.9. Molly Johnson - If You Know Love. This Toronto powerhouse has a growly groove like no other. Always a satisfying listen. 10. Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings - 100 Days and 100 Nights. Move over, Amy Winehouse. Sharon Jones is the real thang, baby. A high five for this one. Happy holidays everyone. Again, it's been a pleasure being connected to you. All my best for the coming new year. Let us all wish for peace in the middle east.Michael in Quebec _________________________________________________________________ Discover new ways to stay in touch with Windows Live! Visit the City @ Live today! http://getyourliveid.ca/?icid=LIVEIDENCA006 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 07:15:16 -0800 (PST) From: MattJones Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #409 does anyone know what happened to www.lauranyro.net and more to the point, does anyone have the audio to that concert that was posted on the site? it was a performance from something like the King Flour hour or something? if you have the audio and would be willing to share, please let me know matt in athens - ----- Original Message ---- From: onlyJMDL Digest To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Sent: Friday, December 28, 2007 3:00:10 AM Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #409 onlyJMDL Digest Friday, December 28 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 409 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: - -------- Broken record [Eric Taylor ] HOHOHO!!! ["P. Henry" ] Re: This Is Your Brain On Music (Yes, JC) [Dave Blackburn ] Sounds of summer- possible Joni/Dino Valenti appearance [ Subject: Broken record Hey all ye Joni lovers: Sometimes I feel like a broken record. I listened to SHINE again today, probably for the hundredth time, and I must just reiterate WHAT a geogeous masterpiece it is! I am relishing harmonizing to it and am ever amazed by Joni's musicianship, but particularly her lyrics on this one. The piano playing alone reduces me to puddle of mush. It was Hejira, DJRD and Mingus which made me realize what an incredible artist we are dealing with, and Turbulent Indigo certainly was the icing on the cake. But SHINE OH MY This is my favorite album of her outstanding career! This Place alone is up there with Otis & Marlena. Bad Dreams Are Good reminds me so much of Down To You only much more important and timely. And Night Of The Iguana might be her greatest work yet (i am totally addicted to it, like I was DJRD and Hejira when they were more relevent). And Hana. Move over Amelia! Of course I realize that this flies in the face of die-hard Joni lovers who wish she didn't smoke ciggeretts and still sounded like she was 20 yo. It will take 100 years for most people to catch up to the pure genius of Joni Mitchell. Meanwhile I am in complete awe of by far the most talented & significant artist of our age. Sorry if this offends anyone but I have been in love with Joni's music ever since Blue was released so I think I know what I'm talking about. Just hoping humanity survives this massive mess! :-! ET - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:11:54 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: HOHOHO!!! What do you get if you cross an insomniac, an agnostic, and a dyslexic? Someone who stays awake at night wondering if there really is a dog. - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:15:34 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: This Is Your Brain On Music (Yes, JC) Kenny, Thanks for sharing the passages from your Xmas book that relate to Joni. My new favorite word is "Phonogenic"! I do wish critics would stop harping on Joni's "avant-garde" and harmonically advanced chords though. Very little of her songwriting uses advanced harmony (Paprika Plains is another story entirely) but for someone who will always be mis-cast as a folk singer her choice of chords is striking. They don't always conform to the diatonic chord scale (though many do: River, Night Ride Home etc) but the harmony is neither complex or hard to play. Again you have to take the perception of the untrained blonde folkie into account. As soon as she started working with musicians from a jazz background there was no more talk of "Joni's weird chords". Her guitar VOICINGS however are what are special, because of the tunings. She can get clusters of closely spaced notes to ring together when using the alternate tunings and that certainly gives her harmony a fresh sound for guitar fans. The fact that Joni loves chord suspensions ("chords of inquiry") is also notable as it gave her music a floaty airy quality but it's certainly nothing she invented. And it is actually what is sorely lacking from "Shine". Lastly it must be said that Joni's harmony is completely different between her guitar and piano writing. Almost none of the chords she uses on piano she plays on guitar and vice versa. That is of interest to me anyway. On piano for example her early 70's writing is chock full of the major 9 no 3rd chord (G/C or B/E for ex) which was a staple of Steely Dan around the same time, but she barely uses it once in her entire body of guitar songs. Dave B (chord-o-phile) On Dec 27, 2007, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:45:35 EST > From: PassScribe@aol.com > Subject: This Is Your Brain On Music (Yes, JC) > > Hi, and belated holiday greetings for those who observe such > occasions as > Christmas, Hanukuh, Quanza, etc. > and a Happy New Year to all. > > I received a book for Christmas, from a very good friend of mine, > called This > Is Your Brain On Music; an extremely well-written treatise on how > music > affects humans, by Daniel J. Levitin. I don't know if anyone has > ever mentioned > anything from this book on the list before; it's copyright 2006 but > the first > printing appears to be Sept., 2007. Allow me to quote some passages > that I think > our JoniListas will appreciate (condensed to save time & space) > beginning on > page 212: > > "Francis Crick turned his lack of training into a positive aspect > of his > life's work. Unbound by scientific dogma, he was free- completely > free, he wrote- > to open his mind and discover science. When an artist brings this > freedom, > this tabula rasa, to music, the results can be astounding. Many of > the greatest > musicians of our era lacked formal training, including Sinatra, Louis > Armstrong, John Coltrane (etc., etc.) and Joni Mitchell." (Also > mentions classical > composers). > > "Joni Mitchell had sung in choirs in public school, but had never > taken > guitar lessons or any other kind of music lessons. Her music has a > unique quality > that has been variously described as avant-garde, ethereal, and as > bridging > classical, folk, jazz, and rock. Joni uses a lot of alternate > tunings; that is, > instead of tuning the guitar in the customary way, she tunes the > strings to > pitches of her own choosing. This doesn't mean that she plays notes > that other > people don't- there are still only twelve notes in a chromatic > scale- but it > does mean that she can easily reach with her fingers combinations > of notes that > other guitarists can't reach (regardless of the size of their hands)." > > (Then, a whole thing on playing the guitar, on musicians Joni has > worked > with, etc.) Then, he mentions an interview he did with Joni, over > dinner, where > she talked about how she made her first album (among other things): > > "'When I first started out,' she said, 'the record company wanted > to give me > a producer, someone who had experience churning out hit records. > But David > (Crosby) said, "Don't let them- a producer will ruin you. Let's > tell them that > I'll produce it for you; they'll trust me." So basically, Crosby > put his name as > producer to keep the record company out of my way so that I could > make the > music the way that I wanted to.'" > > "'But then the musicians came in and they all had ideas about how > they wanted > to play. On my record! The worse were the bass players because they > always > wanted to know what the root of the chord was' (he then explains > the root of a > chord and how Joni throws notes together in ways that aren't easily > labeled). > 'The bass players wanted to know the root because that's what > they've been > taught to play. But I said, "Just play something that sounds good, > don't worry > about what the root is." And they said, "We can't do that- we have > to play the > root or it won't sound right."'" > > (Then more about music theory and chords, etc.) Then, > > "All of the bass players Joni worked with before Jaco insisted on > playing > roots, or what they perceived to be roots. The brilliance of Jaco, > Joni said, is > that he instinctively knew to wander around the possibilty space, > reinforcing > the different chord interpretations with equal emphasis, sublimely > holding the > ambiguity in a delicate, suspended balance. Jaco allowed Joni to > have bass > guitar on her songs without destroying one of their most expansive > qualities. > This, then, we figured out at dinner that night, was one of the > secrets of why > Joni's music sounds unlike anyone else's- its harmonic complexity > born out of > her strict insistence that the music not be anchored to a single > harmonic > interpretation. Add in her compelling, phonogenic voice, and we > become immersed in > an auditory world, a soundscape unlike any other." > > The only fault I've found with the book so far is that, in the > index, when it > directs you to certain pages to access references to certain > artists, those > referenced pages are sometimes wrong. That aside, I highly > recommend this book > for anyone who loves music (and to read the work of someone who > obviously > regards Joni as very special... just as we do.) > > Kenny B - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 20:15:02 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Joni's exit not to be thankfully I was just thinking about how wonderful it is to still have Joni making music especially after she said she had retired. I know I've told you folks this before but I'll tell you again. One of the first things I read when I started getting into Joni was that she was done with music. Oh, how it filled me with sadness! It was an aching sadness even though there was still much of my Joni journey to be traveled! It was the sort of sadness when you lose touch with a good friend and something, somewhere reminds you of him/her, flooding you with all those warm memories you'll never again have. Now granted I had no Joni memories (unlike a good load of you folks who have been with Joni for years! Oh how I envy you!) but that is the sort of feeling I had. Anyway, more over, I was thinking about Joni's comment on the first time she said she wanted to retire from music. When did Joni say she first had the "urge" to retire? She got the urge for going but she didn't go. Didn't she say it was right after For The Roses when she was starting to feel a little fed up with the music business or whatever? Can you imagine if she stopped recording then? It would have been a nice, good five album run but man oh man look at what we would have missed! A life without the Hissing Of Summer Lawns or Hejira is a not a life worth living! Anyway, my apologies for this seemingly pointless email. I was just letting my stream of thoughts on Joni flow to those who may be able to take a swim in that stream and understand what I am saying. Shine on JMDL, shine on. -Monika NR (now reading): Mrs. Dalloway- Virginia Woolf - - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 13:58:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Subject: Re: This Is Your Brain On Music (Yes, JC) Kenny, thanks for mentioning this book. I read it recently and found it fascinating. I'd been meaning to post about it, but lent the book to a coworker right after I finished it and so couldn't post the quotes about Joni. He absolutely nails what's special about her music, possibly better than anyone else I've read. Next, I want to read the Oliver Sacks book "Musicophilia." I don't think it mentions Joni, though. lots of love, Anne - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:10:51 -0800 From: Subject: Sounds of summer- possible Joni/Dino Valenti appearance Oh bah, Jerry! Hyperbole? ;-) I first heard Get Together at around age 15 and I thought it was sooo beautiful. It is still one of my favorite songs of all time. But I know it has been overdone some. Think I heard the Youngbloods version first, although the original Jefferson Airplanes' also recorded it. Darice is so lucky in that she actually knows or hangs with some of the people who originally recorded it. Ahhh. I didn't know until now that Joni recorded it in venues other than Big Sur. Great to hear. It's one of the best. Kakki - ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #409 ********************************* - ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe - ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm) ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully Hey there Marion. I decided to add the "NR" at the suggestion of the post, "lurk no more" that came from a librarian, Martha, on this list. She had wanted the "NR" and I thought it to be a swell idea... Now what makes you think The Cleft is a book Joni would appreciate? What was it about? I'm curious. As for Mrs. Dalloway, so far it's quite good. I'm not that far into it as I only just started reading it yesterday during lunch at work (and haven't read it since then but have the day off today and tomorrow so reading shall be one of my friends in my free time!). I like how it is written almost as a string of thoughts flowing endlessly. The writing, the wording, is very different. -Monika - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Marion Leffler wrote: By the way, I like your addition of NR! Hope you have a good time with Mrs Dalloway. Let me add an RR (recently read): The Cleft - Doris Lessing. Somehow I think that is a book Joni would appreciate. Marion - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 09:30:59 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully So interesting to read the thoughts and feelings surrounding Joni's announcement from several years ago that she would retire. For whatever reason, I never believed she would. I didn't -- and don't -- believe she CAN. I think it was James Taylor who said in an interview once that he'd never known a person with such a drive to create (I'm very much paraphrasing here, from my memory of a Rolling Stone interview from 1979 or 1980). So "news" of Joni's retirement never bothered me very much. I worry more about "the inevitable," as I would truly like to meet Joni at least once before then. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:37:41 -0700 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: FW: Message from Website Copy Debra on any responses. Thanks, Les - -----Original Message----- A friend claims that the following quatrain from Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is a quote, translated, from a German poem by either Nietzsche or Karl May. Did Mitchell borrow the lines? Clarification appreciated. The Eagle and the Serpent, They are at war in me. The serpent fights for blind desire, The Eagle fights for clarity. Name: Debra Rosenthal email: prof.rosenthal@gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:56:32 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully Hi Monika, The Cleft is a novel about the origins of men and women and how they came to co-exist. Doris Lessing presumes that women were first and men came after, and at first there was a lot of animosity, they did not live together. It's a sort of legend. The "I" in the novel is an ageing Roman senator who spends his time writing history, trying to make sense of very ancient documents based on oral history. The Cleft is a name of a holy place as well as a name for women and also of what happened. It's hard to retell, you got to read it. What made me think that Joni might like this novel is that it would probably confirm her views of the nature of men and women (as expressed in her lyrics) and their troublesome attraction and relationship. Also, I felt their is a likeness in the way Doris Lessing and Joni write. Marion NR a book on school cultures, more as part of work than leisure. - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Monika Bogdanowicz Skickat: den 28 december 2007 17:06 Till: Joni people!; Marion Leffler Dmne: Re: SV: Joni's exit not to be thankfully Hey there Marion. I decided to add the "NR" at the suggestion of the post, "lurk no more" that came from a librarian, Martha, on this list. She had wanted the "NR" and I thought it to be a swell idea... Now what makes you think The Cleft is a book Joni would appreciate? What was it about? I'm curious. As for Mrs. Dalloway, so far it's quite good. I'm not that far into it as I only just started reading it yesterday during lunch at work (and haven't read it since then but have the day off today and tomorrow so reading shall be one of my friends in my free time!). I like how it is written almost as a string of thoughts flowing endlessly. The writing, the wording, is very different. -Monika - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------------------- Marion Leffler wrote: By the way, I like your addition of NR! Hope you have a good time with Mrs Dalloway. Let me add an RR (recently read): The Cleft - Doris Lessing. Somehow I think that is a book Joni would appreciate. Marion - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. - --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:22:03 -0800 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Message from Website There is an interesting discussion on this very subject in a tarot card forum at: http://tinyurl.com/yuybpp This discussion raises the issue that the poem by Nietsche originated with something that Karl May wrote and was actually derived from a native American Indian proverb (Apache). Good luck in your quest. Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:14:03 -0600 From: "Dan Olson" Subject: Re: Steely Dan Connection When I think of Aja, the name Wayne Shorter comes to mind (he solos in the title track, I believe). This would have been about the time Joni recorded DJRD (on which Wayne makes his first of many appearances on Joni albums). In fact, he is on EVERY one of Joni's albums from DJRD until the present, with two exceptions. Should I leave that as a quiz (Rian)? Okay, the exceptions are S&L (Weather Report's record label prohibited more than one member appearing on tour with anyone, and Jaco was the one) and oddly, Shine. I've wondered what is up with that, since she has someone else playing soprano sax, and clearly Wayne is still around (he plays brilliantly on Herbie's River). ~Dan >Thinking at some point they both had a studio musician in common. Larry >Carlton? On 12/28/07, Em wrote: > > Mark wrote: > > While listening to other Steely Dan albums, I noticed there are many > > > > other similarities. Both in musical style and lyrical style. Has Joni > > > > ever collaborated with Donald Fagen or Walter Becker? 1976 was when > > Joni really started to get curious about jazz and has mentioned that > > > > she began looking for people who were less rigid to play with. Was > > Steely Dan's loose style a spark in that discovery? > > > > Thinking at some point they both had a studio musician in common. Larry > Carlton? > > To me Steely Dan's albums were much more "finished". So I don't see > their style as "loose", at all. I think they were able to affect jazz > "cool", to the point that it seemed "loose" but actually was not. > The arrangements and production on some of that stuff remains just out > of this world, over the top excellent - its like a machine gun of > hipness. > > I get the feeling Joni and the SD guys probably stepped on the same > ground in LA from time to time, but I don't know for sure. Was "the > dude ranch above the sea" the same Banyan tree'd place as in LOTC? > Probably no way to know... > > Occaisionally there'll be a twinge of something in a Joni piece that is > reminiscent to me of SD. But, to me, not Hejira. Hejira is way more > minimal in its instrumentation. > Mostly C&S has the occaisinal Dan-ish instant. Damned if I can think > what it is though. > > HOSL is nicely produced as-is, but of any Joni album, I could imagine > the B&F treatment on that one. > > Joni's stuff is a lot looser and not so high octane, it relies more lon > depth, and heart. > SD's stuff is testosterone driven (in the best possible way). > If music were high calorie, SD would make ya very fat from listening > too much. > Its like pork roast USED to be, back in the day when they didn't worry > about trying to raise lean pigs. Back when pork didn't NEED to be the > other white meat. > (of course if you don't eat meat, that's probably a really gross > comparison, sorry, lol) > > But Joni's imagery and delivery of the art are equal or superior, none > the less. > Joni's stuff is/was so personal...and SD's was not so much that way. > Lets put it this way, SD has never made me cry, lol. > > I've wished on more than one occaision though, that she could have > hooked up with B&F to produce an album. Although it *might* not have > worked. > > Sometimes too much merged greatness just doesn't work out to best > effect. > Its like when DeNiro and Pacino finally made a flick together (where > they both appeared on camera together, so, no, not Godfather II) it was > just kind of anti-climactic and not a great movie by any means. > > Anyway, those are my thoughts. > > Listening to SD closely and in detail tires me out after a while. They > just used to take one for a hell of a ride. Its like the difference > between taking a plane ride in a Stearman bi-plane and the pilot forces > barrel-rolls and dives on you, and maybe going up in a glider. > Joni is the glider, and she catches magnificent drafts, and flies it > high and low and thrills as much or more as the Stearman....but without > the internal combustion or acrobatics. > > LOL, I could be FOS. > ;) > Em > > > > > > > "Please don't taunt the tiger." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 08:25:03 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Steely Dan Connection Not FOS by any means, Em. You have described the differences between Joni and SD very well (except for the pork analogy). It's true that their styles are quite different for the most part but there always seemed a cross over to me. I have been playing SD a lot lately. They keep getting stuck in my head. The comment Joni made about the title of SD's album, Aja got stuck in my head too and I just got intrigued by the possibility of any connection between them. I see how SD is a more energised sound but Joni must be in admiration of Donald Fagen's complex and cynical lyric style. They paralleled each other's careers for a time in the 70s with Aja and Hejira being the best albums of the late 70s and similarities between other albums like Katy Lied and THOSL, Court and Spark and Pretzel Logic. Maybe it's just the sound of the period that I'm hearing. The instruments that were popular at the time, the guitar licks, etc. Certainly, Joni's lyrics were more personal but the more societally observational songs had a similar bent to SD. Songs like People's Parties could have been written by Donald Fagen. I mean, Joni is unique but it seems that DF might have been going through similar thought processes. Of course, one minor connection I know of is Michael McDonald. The pairing could only work on one or two songs as guest vocalist with Joni but worked wonderfully in balancing DF's raw vocals with SD. Sometimes I wish MM was a more permanent member of SD. Then again, I wish MM had recorded more with Joni too. It's a musical collaboration that I would be most intrigued by. Of course there are some big differences but I could easily place Joni's songs side by side with SD in a compilation. They would flow very easily to my ears. Steely Dan did start off in New York but soon moved to Los Angeles and I feel certain they must have crossed paths. I am intrigued by what other commonalities they had such as peripheral musicians. There must be more that a six degrees of separation between them. How about a connection between the LA Express and SD? Does anyone know. Mark in Sydney NP Night By Night - Steely Dan On 29/12/2007, at 12:58 AM, Em wrote: > Mark wrote: >> While listening to other Steely Dan albums, I noticed there are many >> >> other similarities. Both in musical style and lyrical style. Has Joni >> >> ever collaborated with Donald Fagen or Walter Becker? 1976 was when >> Joni really started to get curious about jazz and has mentioned that >> >> she began looking for people who were less rigid to play with. Was >> Steely Dan's loose style a spark in that discovery? > > > > Thinking at some point they both had a studio musician in common. > Larry > Carlton? > > To me Steely Dan's albums were much more "finished". So I don't see > their style as "loose", at all. I think they were able to affect jazz > "cool", to the point that it seemed "loose" but actually was not. > The arrangements and production on some of that stuff remains just out > of this world, over the top excellent - its like a machine gun of > hipness. > > I get the feeling Joni and the SD guys probably stepped on the same > ground in LA from time to time, but I don't know for sure. Was "the > dude ranch above the sea" the same Banyan tree'd place as in LOTC? > Probably no way to know... > > Occaisionally there'll be a twinge of something in a Joni piece > that is > reminiscent to me of SD. But, to me, not Hejira. Hejira is way more > minimal in its instrumentation. > Mostly C&S has the occaisinal Dan-ish instant. Damned if I can think > what it is though. > > HOSL is nicely produced as-is, but of any Joni album, I could imagine > the B&F treatment on that one. > > Joni's stuff is a lot looser and not so high octane, it relies more > lon > depth, and heart. > SD's stuff is testosterone driven (in the best possible way). > If music were high calorie, SD would make ya very fat from listening > too much. > Its like pork roast USED to be, back in the day when they didn't worry > about trying to raise lean pigs. Back when pork didn't NEED to be the > other white meat. > (of course if you don't eat meat, that's probably a really gross > comparison, sorry, lol) > > But Joni's imagery and delivery of the art are equal or superior, none > the less. > Joni's stuff is/was so personal...and SD's was not so much that way. > Lets put it this way, SD has never made me cry, lol. > > I've wished on more than one occaision though, that she could have > hooked up with B&F to produce an album. Although it *might* not have > worked. > > Sometimes too much merged greatness just doesn't work out to best > effect. > Its like when DeNiro and Pacino finally made a flick together (where > they both appeared on camera together, so, no, not Godfather II) it > was > just kind of anti-climactic and not a great movie by any means. > > Anyway, those are my thoughts. > > Listening to SD closely and in detail tires me out after a while. They > just used to take one for a hell of a ride. Its like the difference > between taking a plane ride in a Stearman bi-plane and the pilot > forces > barrel-rolls and dives on you, and maybe going up in a glider. > Joni is the glider, and she catches magnificent drafts, and flies it > high and low and thrills as much or more as the Stearman....but > without > the internal combustion or acrobatics. > > LOL, I could be FOS. > ;) > Em > > >> > > > "Please don't taunt the tiger." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:20:44 -0800 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: sjc 10 best list As usual, my list is skewed dinasaurward- BEST CDs/DVDs 1. Joni Mitchell "Shine"- The Muse descends again upon our Joan of Art, finds her ruminating on the massive mess we're in. 2. The Roches "Moonswept"-a stunningly gorgeous, organic, clever return from the NY sisters. 3. David Gilmour "Remember The Night" (DVD)-Live at Royal Albert Hall double disc packed with extras-breathtaking guitar playing plus guests Crosby & Nash, David Bowie 4. Neil Young "Live At Massey Hall 1971"-solo and surging with creativity. 5. Norah Jones "Not Too Late"-keep 'em comin' 6. Herbie Hancock "River The Joni Letters"-great material & many guests, a labor of love. 7. John Fogarty "Revival"-Successful attempt to recapture his swampy Creedence sound. 8. Natasha Bedingfield "N.B."-Blond, beautiful and talented, there oughtta be a law. (for lack of a new Shelby Lynne CD). 9. Anoushka Shankar & Karsha Kale "Breathing Under Water"- Blends electronica with traditional Indian sounds. Guests: Anoushka's half sister Norah Jones, Sting. 10. Bob Dylan "The Other Side of the Mirror-Live at the Newport Folk Festival"(DVD)-somehow they got it all on film as Dylan transformed from folksinger to folk hero to electric warrior. His complete appearances at Newport '63-'65. Essential. 11. Jenny Goodspeed "Under The Ash Tree"-Haven't actually bought this yet, but intend to. Clips I've heard and raves from fellow jmdlers attest to some seriously excellent music. Congrats! DISAPPOINTING DESPITE WHAT THE CRITICS SAY: Paul McCartney "Memory Almost Full"-Beautifully arranged and performed but the songs suck. Alicia Keys "As I Am"-see review of "Memory Almost Full" PROBABLY GREAT BUT I'M NOT A FAN: Patti Smith "Twelve"/Bruce Springsteen "Magic" BEST EAGLES ALBUM BOB MULLER DID NOT BUY: "Long Road Out of Eden" BOX SET YOU DON'T NEED: Pink Floyd's 16 CD/$200 complete album set "Oh By The Way" REUNIONS: Led Zeppelin/Smashing Pumpkins/Sex Pistols/ The Police/Genesis/Spice Girls DISBANDED:Distillers/Fugees/Jurassic 5 BIG TICKET TOUR: The Police CONCEPTUAL ART EVENT: Iceland's Peace Light Tower John Lennon memorial BEST MUSICAL COMEDY MOVIE: "Tenacious D and The Pick of Destiny" BEST MUSIC ORIENTED MOVIES: "I'm Not There", "Across The Universe" MUSICAL NON EVENT: Live 8 (however it was all worth it to see Spinal Tap do "Big Bottom" with 30 bassists onstage). TV NON EVENT: Sopranos finale BEST TV SERIES: 30 Rock, The Sarah Silverman Program, House, Weeds WORST: Cavemen. Unbelievably bad. I WILL REMEMBER YOU: Oscar Peterson/Denny Doherty/ Don Ho/Lee Hazelwood/Merv Griffin/Luciano Pavarotti/Max Roach/Robert Goulet/Ike Turner/Dan Fogelberg/Benizar Bhutto/ Lucky Dube/Joe Zawinul/Tom Snyder/Anna Nicole Smith/Kurt Vonnegut/Boris Yeltsin/Beverly Sills/Norman Mailer/Marcel Marceau/Lady Bird Johnson/Molly Ivans/Jerry Falwell/Alice Coltrane AND TWO JONI ALUMNI A WEEK APART: "Sneaky" Pete Kleinow/Michael Brecker Peace & Love to you all, and wishing you a great 2008 RR ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #410 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)