From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #333 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, October 21 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 333 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SV: His Story SJC ["Marion Leffler" ] Bad Dreams are Good? ["Marian Russell" ] SJC Sandy Denny ["Oddmund Kaarevik" ] shine on the catholic church... [ben ben ] re: Jungle Gardenia [c Karma ] Chaka - Maybe SJC ["Jerry Notaro" ] another intro favorite [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: shine on the catholic church... [Catherine McKay ] Re: Jungle Gardenia ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: shine on the catholic church... [Victor Johnson ] Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD [est86mlm@amerite] No Fiddle on American Bravo ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: shine on the catholic church... ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #332 [ROSCOE1TC@aol.com] Re: shine on the catholic church... [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD [Bob Muller <] Re: Worst Shine review! [Deb Messling ] Re: Shine favorite/least favorite../now assholes passing on the right [mi] Re: Worst Shine review! [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: Worst Shine review!...and... [Monika Bogdanowicz ] John Mayer and James Blunt?? Are You Kidding? ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Bad Dreams are Good? ["Marian Russell" ] Bravo [Coleen ] Re: shine on the catholic church... ["Dan Olson" ] RE : Re: shine on the catholic church... [Joseph Palis ] BYT [Michel BYRNE ] Malaysian "Shine" [Jussi Pukkila ] Re: BYT ["Jerry Notaro" ] re: shine on the catholic church [Mags ] Re: BYT ["Marian Russell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:06:59 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: His Story SJC Let me ask another (rhetorical!) question: is there any queen in history under whose reign there wasn't a war or other violent actions? You could say that women in power are still subject to men in power but that's just a little too simple. Women like queen Elizabeth I and queen Christina of Sweden certainly did have minds of their own and real power. What I am trying to say is that we cannot know if women are more peaceful "by nature" than men. There has not been a society yet in which women in sufficiently large numbers had enough power to act in ways different from men's ways in politics. Hence we do not know if women in power would not start wars. It would depend on the kind of society they would be able to create. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Eric Taylor Skickat: den 21 oktober 2007 09:09 Till: jmdl Dmne: His Story SJC Just a little comment on "men love war, is that what history/God is for?" Just the sound of it shakes my soul. ~A mass murder mystery, history, his story.~ I likewise concluded that long ago. Can anyone here name one woman who started a war or caused genocide? Besides OK Ann Cunter...??? Oh lord I'm in trouble now! ET $ when this place is a moonscape don't tell me I didn't warn ya $ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:16:44 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Bad Dreams are Good? Hi everybody. Finally got my copy of Shine last Monday. I really love If, BYT, Bad Dreams, and Night Of The Iguana. It's really such a thrill that Joni is still making music. Her voice sounds really fantastic. I love the accordion in BYT and the mandolin on Night of the Iguana. Does anyone think maybe she's using dulcimer in BYT? I can't tell. Has the meaning of "bad dreams are good in the great plan" already been discussed? I just wonder what she means by that! Marian NP: BYT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:08:05 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: SJC Sandy Denny I was so lucky this week, in my hunt for any Jane Siberry's CD's I ended up in the music library in Oslo. Actually I found the CD "Maria" from 1995, but I also stumbled over Sandy Denny "A boxful of treasures" Catherine said to me a year ago, at there are many treats for me there, Catherine you have not been proved wrong ! What a marvelous voice she has ! And she sings with such integrity ! Right now I can't stop playing her beautiful Joni Cover of "I don't know where I stand" Such a powerful song ! I think even more powerful in Sandy's version. Oh, so lucky to have all these great female artist to listen too. They bring me so much pleasure, so much joy ! Best ! Oddmund, Norway ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 07:59:39 -0400 From: ben ben Subject: shine on the catholic church... ...and the prisons that it owns. Does anyone know what this refers to. Ben (occasional lurker) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:03:51 +0000 From: c Karma Subject: re: Jungle Gardenia Jimmy wrote: In 1975, she had Rousseau painting a jungle flower. In 1977, she had the smell of Jungle Gardenia. So, I thought there was a vase in the washroom with a flower in it, as a throwback to "The Jungle Line". Wrong. "Jungle Gardenia" is a perfume. http://tinyurl.com/22asjk I knew the lines were about smells that clash but it's more literal than I thought. You are correct! Now this is sure to add speculation but I read that the fragrance "Jungle Gardenia" was a signature of the presence of Elizabeth Taylor before she starting creating and marketing her own. CC _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:03:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Chaka - Maybe SJC Chaka Khan is featured on CBS Sunday Norning right now. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:18:38 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: another intro favorite Harry's House (Centerpiece) on HOSL. I love the sound of the musical plane coming down onto the runway and then the bouncy walking instrumental into the mellowness of the begining of her singing. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:24:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... - --- ben ben wrote: > ...and the prisons that it owns. Does anyone know > what this refers to. > > Ben (occasional lurker) > Ben, I think it's a bit of a mystery and, IMO, the biggest clunker in a song that is otherwise, for me at least, almost perfect. Someone (sorry, but I don't remember who) mentioned a day or two ago that, if she's referring to the Magdelene Laundries, she's a bit late for that. If she's referring to the prison of religious dogma, I guess it's not obvious enough and, if you're looking for dogma, there are worse examples than the catholic church, despite the efforts of some to turn the clock back a century or so. If she means something literal, like, for example, does the catholic church own a stake in any for-real prisons, then there doesn't seem to be any evidence for that, at least in a very quick google scan. As others have mentioned, if she wanted to single out the catholic church for something, then she might have mentioned something about its perverse denial or, at least, fluffing off of pedophile priests as if the matter were of little importance. If I were their PR person, I think I'd have handled all that very differently. On the other hand, she does go on to say, "Shine on all the churches", so possibly she's telling us that churches are all flawed and need to be exposed to some good fresh air and sunshine. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:58:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... I couldn't disagree more, Catherine. Whether, or not, the Catholic Church still owns the Magdelene Laundries, or the prisons of the Inquisition, or the Crusades, the effects remain the same on past history and current political and social conditions. I'm with Joni on this one. Jerry Catherine McKay wrote: > --- ben ben wrote: > >> ...and the prisons that it owns. Does anyone know >> what this refers to. >> >> Ben (occasional lurker) >> > > Ben, I think it's a bit of a mystery and, IMO, the > biggest clunker in a song that is otherwise, for me at > least, almost perfect. > > Someone (sorry, but I don't remember who) mentioned a > day or two ago that, if she's referring to the > Magdelene Laundries, she's a bit late for that. If > she's referring to the prison of religious dogma, I > guess it's not obvious enough and, if you're looking > for dogma, there are worse examples than the catholic > church, despite the efforts of some to turn the clock > back a century or so. > > If she means something literal, like, for example, > does the catholic church own a stake in any for-real > prisons, then there doesn't seem to be any evidence > for that, at least in a very quick google scan. > > As others have mentioned, if she wanted to single out > the catholic church for something, then she might have > mentioned something about its perverse denial or, at > least, fluffing off of pedophile priests as if the > matter were of little importance. If I were their PR > person, I think I'd have handled all that very > differently. > > On the other hand, she does go on to say, "Shine on > all the churches", so possibly she's telling us that > churches are all flawed and need to be exposed to some > good fresh air and sunshine. > > > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:08:07 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Jungle Gardenia I'm Jim L'Hommedieu, in Ohio. Jimmy is in Florida. Jim L. - ----- Original Message ----- Jimmy wrote: In 1975, she had Rousseau painting a jungle flower. In 1977, she had the smell of Jungle Gardenia. So, I thought there was a vase in the washroom with a flower in it, as a throwback to "The Jungle Line". Wrong. "Jungle Gardenia" is a perfume. http://tinyurl.com/22asjk I knew the lines were about smells that clash but it's more literal than I thought. You are correct! Now this is sure to add speculation but I read that the fragrance "Jungle Gardenia" was a signature of the presence of Elizabeth Taylor before she starting creating and marketing her own. CC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:13:37 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... On Oct 21, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Catherine McKay wrote: > > As others have mentioned, if she wanted to single out > the catholic church for something, then she might have > mentioned something about its perverse denial or, at > least, fluffing off of pedophile priests as if the > matter were of little importance. If I were their PR > person, I think I'd have handled all that very > differently. I was thinking that maybe that's what she was trying to refer to, albeit in kind of a weird way. Maybe she was talking about a figurative prison, the mental, spiritual place someone who was being abused might be in. The Catholic church would be the party held responsible and I guess in some sense, the church where this person was serving would seem like a prison, by extension, to the victim. In any case, in the context of the song, it is nothing more than a passing mention, and certainly doesn't deserve all the negative attention that is being/ has been heaped upon it. Victor NP: Mark Knopfler "Secondary Waltz" from- kill to get crimson, a fantastic album that was just released the other week. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:22:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I couldn't disagree more, Catherine. Whether, or > not, the Catholic Church > still owns the Magdelene Laundries, or the prisons > of the Inquisition, or > the Crusades, the effects remain the same on past > history and current > political and social conditions. I'm with Joni on > this one. > I don't disagree with that. The effects are long-lasting, of course, and trust humankind to twist a philosophy of "Love one another" into the dogmatic, backward-facing, head-in-the-sand, sanctimonious, male-dominated, homophobic bureaucracy it is today. Like many here, I'm a recovering catholic (with no disrespect to those who still get something out of it, even if I can't understand it.) And not that I want Joni to necessarily spell everything out, but I guess she could have chosen better words. On the other hand, as I think about it, maybe it is the use of that particular word - "prisons" - that makes some of us stop and think about it for a long time, so, in fact, it may be a very good choice of word. I'm still thinking about that. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:24:00 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite My pet peeve is when I'm driving on the freeway, there are 3 packed lanes of cars going 65 or 70, when a motorcycle approaches doing 90 or 100 mph. He dodges between lanes, threading in an out, at hair raising speed. It's not that I hate it so much as it scares me and I don't want to pick his brains out of my radiator. Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:32:31 +0000 From: Sherelle Smith Subject: Re: This just in!!! Congratulations Victor! I'll be there in spirit as well! Santa Barbara is a beautiful place and you will be right there where she recorded "Shadows and Light"! Kate Bennett was kind enough to show me what she could of it when I was there for a visit. And by the way, I could use a California fix too! Sherelle Victor wrote: Rumour has it I'll be playing in the Joni Mitchell tribute at Soho Restaurant in Santa Barbara on Nov. 11th. Actually, its not a rumour...it is absolutely true! I just booked my flight today. I already know of a few jmdl people who will be attending but it would be great to meet anybody else who is thinking of coming. Should be an awesome night! Victor, needing a California fix _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:34:38 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD OyBaby LLC releases That Baby DVD and That Baby CD for children 0-5, featuring acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and others. http://www.prweb.com/releases/baby/dvd/prweb561970.htm http://www.thatbabydvd.com/ "That Baby DVD features hip acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by artists such as Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and 10,000 Maniacs" Bob, A new cover maybe?? Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:46:09 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: No Fiddle on American Bravo Just wondering if anyone can shed some light - the BravoTv site doesn't have anything listed about Joni's ballet film at all - and it's supposed to air tom'w night at 8. ???????????????????????? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:02:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... I'm glad you answered, Catherine, because I wanted to throwJerry something in the mix. How much of Joni's attitude do you think is Canadian? When I lived there it seemed there was an unwritten divide between the Catholics (read French, read Separists) and the English/Scot descendants (read Protestant)? Would certainly be interesting to discover some deep seeded prejudice there. Jerry Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > >> I couldn't disagree more, Catherine. Whether, or >> not, the Catholic Church >> still owns the Magdelene Laundries, or the prisons >> of the Inquisition, or >> the Crusades, the effects remain the same on past >> history and current >> political and social conditions. I'm with Joni on >> this one. >> > > I don't disagree with that. The effects are > long-lasting, of course, and trust humankind to twist > a philosophy of "Love one another" into the dogmatic, > backward-facing, head-in-the-sand, sanctimonious, > male-dominated, homophobic bureaucracy it is today. > Like many here, I'm a recovering catholic (with no > disrespect to those who still get something out of it, > even if I can't understand it.) And not that I want > Joni to necessarily spell everything out, but I guess > she could have chosen better words. On the other hand, > as I think about it, maybe it is the use of that > particular word - "prisons" - that makes some of us > stop and think about it for a long time, so, in fact, > it may be a very good choice of word. I'm still > thinking about that. > > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:23:51 EDT From: ROSCOE1TC@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #332 with whom would you like to see joni collaborate? not that she needs a collaborator, but i've always thought that it would be interesting to see/hear what brian eno would add to the sound. terry ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:29:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... Hard to say, Jerry, but some of that definitely is, or was there. Whether Joni is prejudiced that way is hard to say. I like to think of her as more open-minded than that, but we're all influenced by the past more than we care to admit sometimes. When you live in Toronto these days, you don't necessarily see that, because Toronto is so multi-cultural. And maybe it also depends on the neighbourhood you live in or the people you socialize with. I do remember as a child, living in small-town Ontario, where there was quite a divide between the Protestants and the Catholics. The town where I lived had a large Irish/Scottish population and was probably fairly equally divided among Catholics and Protestants. Every so often, something would come out that would demonstrate the intolerance - for example, reactions to such things as St Patrick's Day or Orangeman's Day (or whatever it's called.) And I remember only ten or a few more years ago, getting letters from people at work who didn't want the hospitals in that particular town where I used to work to amalgamate because it was the Catholic hospital that looked like it was going to take the lead and people were writing in that were afraid that nuns were going to shove crucifixes down their throats and so on. So, the fears and prejudices were still there even recently. As well, there was a fair French-Canadian population in that town and there were English public (mostly Protestant) schools, English Catholic and French Catholic schools and kids stuck with their own kind for the most part and were either afraid of or looking for a fight with the kids from the other schools. And the history of Canada does have that English/French, Protestant/Catholic divide as well. Going back well over 100 years ago, in Quebec (Lower Canada), they were mostly French-speaking and Catholic. In Ontario (Upper Canada), they were mostly English-speaking and Protestant. The Irish were there as well, and English-speaking Catholics, but were looked down upon and treated as outcasts in Ontario, although they did better in Quebec. The money in both places was pretty much controlled by the English Protestants. The Catholic Church, at least in Quebec, became powerful by collaborating with the government and kept its own people and, in turn, got concessions from the English government. The government of the time allowed two school systems in each province, where the public system in Quebec was mostly French and Catholic, but separate schools (Protestant and mostly English) were allowed. In Ontario, it was the other way around - the public system was English Protestant and the separate system was Catholic (both English and French.) I'm not a historian and I'm oversimplifying but yes, there was that divide. I'm not sure if a similar thing exists in the US or in other countries. It continues today and there's a fair bit of animosity between English and French. The Protestant vs Catholic thing is less evident, at least in larger cities. Maybe it's more noticeable in small towns and rural areas. Many Anglos still fear having "French rammed down their throats." (There seems to be a theme of Canadians being afraid someone is going to "ram something down their throat.") I don't know how it was in Saskatchewan, of course, where Joni grew up. We do know that it was nuns (Catholic, I presume, because a lot of our hospitals were founded by either the St Joseph Sisters or the Grey Sisters, hence the popularity of hospitals named either "St Joseph's" or "Hotel-Dieu" and so on, and there aren't a lot of Anglican sisters around that I'm aware of) who looked after Joni when she was in hospital with polio, and she seems quite open-minded about religious beliefs, but intolerant of dogma of any kind. - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > I'm glad you answered, Catherine, because I wanted > to throwJerry something > in the mix. How much of Joni's attitude do you think > is Canadian? When I > lived there it seemed there was an unwritten divide > between the Catholics > (read French, read Separists) and the English/Scot > descendants (read > Protestant)? Would certainly be interesting to > discover some deep seeded > prejudice there. > > Jerry > Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:28:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: the Winnipeg Free Press Shines a little light on Joni Saturday, October 20, 2007 Winnipeg Free Press Joni Mitchell Shine (Hear Music) This tasty new disc from the sweet songstress of Saskatchewan, hailed as her return from retirement, occupies a comfortable middle ground between her early '70's pop period and her later jazz-inflected albums. Mitchell, it goes without saying, has proved herself to be a singular artist, so anything she records is worth a close listen. Instrumentally, you hear echoes of everything from Blue and Ladies of the Canyon to Hejira and Night Ride Home, especially in her use of unorthodox guitar tunings, sweet saxophone and other synthesized woodwinds. Lyrically, her themes are unabashedly eco-friendly. Her mellow new version of Big Yellow Taxi, with its parking lots and tree museums, does have an "I told you so" air about it. What makes Mitchell's music so compelling is her overall sound, reflective, elegant and regal, on everything from the haunting sax line in Hana to the beautiful melody of This Place. The album breaks no significant new ground, but it's a welcome addition to the great lady's ongoing canon. Morley Walker - --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:34:07 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: Worst Shine review! Brace yourselves for what has to be the meanest review of Shine yet (in fact of any JM album in a long time?). 'The Dissing of Summer Lawns - is Joni Mitchell ever going to cheer up' In the British magazine 'Word', the same that had featured an interview with Joni months ago. What's infuriating isnt that the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. It's all mostly a rant about her self-righteousness and arrogance as a member of the '70s rock aristocracy. No mention of track 1, no mention of Iguana, a bizarre gripe about hidden tracks: 'If' coming in after 2 minutes of silence??? Not on my CD. (Is there a special edition?) Sorry guys, I'm furious - why can't these assholes do their job? M _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:01:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell for the little ones - That Baby DVD & CD Yes indeed Laura - and for once I'm getting a coupon scoop on YOU! The guy who recorded the songs is offering a special deal for JMDL'ers - here's what he told me: Bob, heading back to Greenville NP: KT Tunstall, "White Bird" est86mlm@ameritech.net wrote: OyBaby LLC releases That Baby DVD and That Baby CD for children 0-5, featuring acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and others. http://www.prweb.com/releases/baby/dvd/prweb561970.htm http://www.thatbabydvd.com/ "That Baby DVD features hip acoustic cover versions of songs made popular by artists such as Fleetwood Mac, Neil Diamond, The Pretenders, Joni Mitchell, and 10,000 Maniacs" Bob, A new cover maybe?? Laura Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:04:25 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Worst Shine review! It's obvious that many of these "critics" are lazy, and probably rushing to meet a deadline. I just read a review that claimed that Joni criticizes "bridezillas" on this album (maybe the girl in the dream dress? I don't know). The same reviewer says that Joni "takes aim" at Pearson and complains about bears!! At 11:34 AM 10/21/2007, you wrote: > What's infuriating isnt that >the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of >space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information >about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:10:20 -0500 From: mia _ Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite../now assholes passing on the right Monika, your last sentence made me laugh because I've often wondered why people do that, too. I mean what's the point? Last week during nearly bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic, some guy passed me on the right using the exit only lane. And about a year ago (same rush hour), I was in the left lane and some guy passed me using the emergency lane on the left only to gain one car length in front of me for the next five miles. This kinda stuff never used to happen in my hometown before. Mia From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite../now assholes passing on the right I wouldn't take that lyric too seriously. Afterall, she does say "shine on another asshole" rather than "to hell with that asshole passing on the right." She's got some sympathy even for the asshole! Even without that, I wouldn't take it to heart. If you think about it, you can understand. Even though I drive fast (and pass people up) I still have people pass me up. What really irritates me is when I am already driving 10-15 MPH over the speed limit and someone STILL passes me. It's just irritating and I'd imagine that's all Joni means by that. It's pure aggravation. You know you get a little worked up too at times when someone passes you. I especially hate it when the road is two lanes (which soon merges into one) and the person to the right of you speeds up like hell just to get in front of you before the lanes merge. These people think just because they pass you, it'll get them home earlier by what? A few seconds? A minute maybe? What's the rush? A minute or an x amount of seconds isn't going to do shit. Even more irritating is when someone does this to you and then HE/SHE proceeds to drive abnormally slow.... -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Eric Taylor wrote: Craig responded: _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailne ws ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Worst Shine review! Where can I read the article? You know, it isn't important what critics make of an album. An album's success (in my opinion) isn't determined by critics or sales but by the fans and the artist him/herself. -Mon Michel BYRNE wrote: Brace yourselves for what has to be the meanest review of Shine yet (in fact of any JM album in a long time?). 'The Dissing of Summer Lawns - is Joni Mitchell ever going to cheer up' In the British magazine 'Word', the same that had featured an interview with Joni months ago. What's infuriating isnt that the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. It's all mostly a rant about her self-righteousness and arrogance as a member of the '70s rock aristocracy. No mention of track 1, no mention of Iguana, a bizarre gripe about hidden tracks: 'If' coming in after 2 minutes of silence??? Not on my CD. (Is there a special edition?) Sorry guys, I'm furious - why can't these assholes do their job? M _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:50:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: Worst Shine review!...and... I forgot to add that it isn't necessarily a bad critique that pisses me off about certain reviews as much as it is about the quality of the review. You can diss something and have it still be well written. Not everyone is going to like the same thing. Fine. But if you don't enjoy something (or even if you do) and you're going to write about it, you better do a damn good job in explaining why. Actually focus on the album (or book or whatever review it is) at hand! That irritates me when I read poorly written reviews... -Monika "We all come and go unknown..." Monika Bogdanowicz wrote: Where can I read the article? You know, it isn't important what critics make of an album. An album's success (in my opinion) isn't determined by critics or sales but by the fans and the artist him/herself. - -Mon Michel BYRNE wrote: Brace yourselves for what has to be the meanest review of Shine yet (in fact of any JM album in a long time?). 'The Dissing of Summer Lawns - is Joni Mitchell ever going to cheer up' In the British magazine 'Word', the same that had featured an interview with Joni months ago. What's infuriating isnt that the writer didn't like the album, but that even though there was no lack of space (this is spread over TWO pages) he gives readers so little information about the actual music, as if he'd only given it one listen. It's all mostly a rant about her self-righteousness and arrogance as a member of the '70s rock aristocracy. No mention of track 1, no mention of Iguana, a bizarre gripe about hidden tracks: 'If' coming in after 2 minutes of silence??? Not on my CD. (Is there a special edition?) Sorry guys, I'm furious - why can't these assholes do their job? M _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:04:05 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... "Victor Johnson" wrote: > I was thinking that maybe ...... she was talking about a figurative > prison, the mental, spiritual place .... I think she might be talking about it like this, but I agree with Catherine that there are certainly worse institutions - e.g., the summer Jesus camps that are brainwashing innocent children - which Joni knows about (she mentioned these specifically in a recent interview). In a way, the Catholic church (like any other fundamentalist belief system) is very much like a mental prison - people are not encouraged to think outside the box, and those who do (I'm thinking of progressive priests) are threatened with excommunication. I think it is harder for the Catholic church to control the individual church members, however, and I think there are a lot of practicing Catholics who, e.g., practice forbidden birth control, or who, e.g., believe in Buddhist teachings (according to what I grew up with, it was forbidden even to set foot in another church, and we didn't learn about any details of other religions), or who accept that other faiths might also be valid ways to get to heaven (if there is such a place!). In Austria, about 95% of the people are Catholic, although not all of them go to church. However, everyone who was born Catholic is somehow registered with the Catholic church here and has to pay some percentage of their income to the church as a tax, and it's very hard to get out of paying this tax once you get on the Church's register. This is a kind of financial prison. Marian NPIMH: If ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:18:52 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: John Mayer and James Blunt?? Are You Kidding? Mayer has major talent imo- he has an old weathered bluesman living inside him when he plays & sings the blues ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:17:20 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Bad Dreams are Good? That sound is a patch on a Yamaha synth called a Motif 8 ES. I have one of them and I always liked it. The keyboard has a programmable arpeggiator in it to give it that strum sound. best Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Oct 21, 2007, at 5:16 AM, Marian Russell wrote: Hi everybody. Finally got my copy of Shine last Monday. I really love If, BYT, Bad Dreams, and Night Of The Iguana. It's really such a thrill that Joni is still making music. Her voice sounds really fantastic. I love the accordion in BYT and the mandolin on Night of the Iguana. Does anyone think maybe she's using dulcimer in BYT? I can't tell. Has the meaning of "bad dreams are good in the great plan" already been discussed? I just wonder what she means by that! Marian NP: BYT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:30:50 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: Bad Dreams are Good? Wow. Sounds like a real stringed instrument of some sort. Amazing! ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Paz To: Marian Russell Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Bad Dreams are Good? That sound is a patch on a Yamaha synth called a Motif 8 ES. I have one of them and I always liked it. The keyboard has a programmable arpeggiator in it to give it that strum sound. best Paz Michael Paz michael@thepazgroup.com Tour Manager Preservation Hall Jazz Band http://www.preservationhall.com On Oct 21, 2007, at 5:16 AM, Marian Russell wrote: Hi everybody. Finally got my copy of Shine last Monday. I really love If, BYT, Bad Dreams, and Night Of The Iguana. It's really such a thrill that Joni is still making music. Her voice sounds really fantastic. I love the accordion in BYT and the mandolin on Night of the Iguana. Does anyone think maybe she's using dulcimer in BYT? I can't tell. Has the meaning of "bad dreams are good in the great plan" already been discussed? I just wonder what she means by that! Marian NP: BYT ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:49:44 -0400 From: Coleen Subject: Bravo I'm afraid Bravo in Canada is a completely different station than Bravo in the States. http://www.bravo.ca/ That's why I said I was alerting Joni fans in Canada. Sorry for the confusion. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:57:21 -0500 From: "Dan Olson" Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... In the USA, we ALL indirectly support the Catholic Church, insofar as they are one of the largest real estate holders in the country, and pay no taxes whatsoever. I thiink Joni's larger point is that throughout history, they LITERALLY have the blood of millions of indigenous (and other) people on their hands. But she also points out that ALL of the churches are guilty of the same kinds of abuses (although by singling out Catholicism, she singles out the worst). I say fuck all religion; "Imagine no religion" (John Lennon). Dan On 10/21/07, Marian Russell wrote: > > "Victor Johnson" wrote: > > > I was thinking that maybe ...... she was talking about > a figurative > > prison, the mental, spiritual place .... > > In Austria, about 95% of the people are Catholic, although not all of them > > go to church. However, everyone who was born Catholic is somehow > registered > with the Catholic church here and has to pay some percentage of their > income > to the church as a tax, and it's very hard to get out of paying this tax > once you get on the Church's register. This is a kind of financial > prison. > > Marian > > NPIMH: If ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 19:52:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: shine on the catholic church... Or maybe Joni is referring to organized religion in general and its flaws. I agree about Catholicism's ritualistic cruelty by the clergy under the name of purging worldly sins. Plus the guilt that we were (or at least me, a Catholic raised in the Philippines) made to feel when we do something 'wrong' in the eyes of God, that imprisons the mind, the spirit, the soul. Not saying it does not have its merits, but horror stories abound in institutions tasked to bring out the good in people. Joseph np: Martha Argerich - Tchaikovsky: Piano Concerto No. 1 Catherine McKay a icrit : -she does go on to say, "Shine on all the churches", so possibly she's telling us that churches are all flawed and need to be exposed to some good fresh air and sunshine. - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:08:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shine on the catholic church... - --- Marian Russell wrote: > In Austria, about 95% of the people are Catholic, > although not all of them > go to church. However, everyone who was born > Catholic is somehow registered > with the Catholic church here and has to pay some > percentage of their income > to the church as a tax, and it's very hard to get > out of paying this tax > once you get on the Church's register. This is a > kind of financial prison. > Wow - unbelievable! Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 11:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. These lists are in order of appearance not preference: favorite: This Place -- really interesting rhythms going on here... is the guitar line a waltz? Like Turbulent Indigo? If I Had a Heart -- a gorgeous melody... "our lovely sky" blows my mind every time. Hana -- I know this is about a movie but I always think of Myrtle... I think it's the "get a grip on your grief". I just love the sound of the song Night of the Iguana -- a great song, descriptive storytelling If -- the first song I have heard in 15 years that makes me want to dance middle range favorites: One Week Last Summer Bad Dreams Strong and Wrong Shine -- the introduction is mind blowing. least favorite: Big Yellow Taxi ... signing off for now, Peace, David Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:57:49 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: BYT Like a few people here i've never been a great fan of BYT, for all that's it catchy and clever. I think i was mainly put off by that horribly fake-sounding laugh at the end, on Ladies of the C - i know it's mayby *meant* to sound forced and 'deluded' as the song segues into the elegiac Woodstock, but it always amazed me that somebody with such a ready spontaneous sense of humour could sound so cringeingly fake-girly - and then the horrible voice-breaks in the Woodstock yodelling put me off those tracks forever! BYT 2007 is good, but IMO doesn't beat the live version on Painting... with SUCH a cool syncopated guitar rhythm, and Joni's Dylan impersonation - just brilliant! _________________________________________________________________ Feel like a local wherever you go. http://www.backofmyhand.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:03:18 +0300 From: Jussi Pukkila Subject: Malaysian "Shine" Hi Thought I'd drop a line about my copy of "Shine" that I just got. I ordered it from CDwow, based on their reasonable pricing. It was 12, shipping included. It was my first time buying from them. On the website, they say that their stock can originate basically from anywhere in the world. So after a bit of wait, "Shine" arrived and the CD is made in Malaysia! Quite exotic. Well, to me. Not if you live in Malaysia of course. Now I'm quite a "seasoned" music collector and I've seen bootlegs and shifty pressings, but this looks like the real thing. There are no silly typos in the small print, which I've seen on Chinese CD's. Also the artwork is crisp, although I don't have any Western counterpart to compare it to. I'm in Finland and here you can come across Russian dodgy CD's, often sold at market places and they can mostly be told from the real thing with a quick glance. The Malaysian copy has the blue strip around it, the "radiant return" sticker was on the plastic wrapper and there's a hologram on the front booklet. The case is one of those SACD cases (Super Jewel Box, apparently), with round corners and the weird shaped back insert. Are they all like this? Btw, how is one supposed to get the booklet out safely, it's got tabs on both sides - anyone know? Booklet has 32 pages and there's a promo note about ringtones attached. Sadly no Joni though - the usual Gwens and Rihannas only. The CD has the nightsky design. There are 'Universal' logos etched on the data side of the disc. hear music/Universal 0888072304574 So, to me everything looks OK about this copy. Productwise I'm happy, although this kind of commerce, with goods travelling halfway around the world can't be environmentally that sound... I ordered the new Chaka Khan album from the same store. It will be interesting to see where that one comes from. - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:40:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: BYT I have a friend here at the University who just did a film called Building the Dream, on the 20th century history of Florida. We had a dinner at his house to celebrate its broadcast here on PBS in Florida. I read in the national Humanities Journal an article on it. The author named it Planned Paradise. I asked the author of the book and the director if either of them knew where that title had come from and neither knew. They were thrilled when I told them it was a take off of Joni's phrase Paved Paradise from BYT! Jerry Michel BYRNE wrote: > Like a few people here i've never been a great fan of BYT, for all that's > it > catchy and clever. I think i was mainly put off by that horribly > fake-sounding > laugh at the end, on Ladies of the C - i know it's mayby *meant* to sound > forced and 'deluded' as the song segues into the elegiac Woodstock, but it > always amazed me that somebody with such a ready spontaneous sense of > humour > could sound so cringeingly fake-girly - and then the horrible voice-breaks > in > the Woodstock yodelling put me off those tracks forever! BYT 2007 is > good, > but IMO doesn't beat the live version on Painting... with SUCH a cool > syncopated guitar rhythm, and Joni's Dylan impersonation - just brilliant! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Feel like a local wherever you go. > http://www.backofmyhand.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:02:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: re: shine on the catholic church Jerry wrote: <<< How much of Joni's attitude do you think is Canadian? When I lived there it seemed there was an unwritten divide between the Catholics (read French, read Separists) and the English/Scot descendants (read Protestant)? Would certainly be interesting to discover some deep seeded prejudice there.>>> in a word...yes. kind of like the elephant in the corner of the room. Everyone cannot help but know it's there, but no one's talking. That's how it was. Complicit silence. Two Solitudes still exists in one way or another. Je me souviens. here's a bit of my story, i was raised. by an english catholic until she married my dad english/welsh/scots (protestant) and mum was made to switch religious affiliation. A Catholic marry a Protestant. Not done. End of story. And yet. A statue of Jesus, baring his heart strung with chains remained on her dresser as long as i can remember. Once a Catholic? Anyway,. with that in mind, . on the inside and outside of our home, the barriers grew high and wide. there were many invisible lines drawn in the sand, against being "one or the other". a protestant/catholic proof fence. even though my mother was herself raised catholic, she certainly had her prejudices. and that could be in part, because she attended an all girls catholic school, stick wielding nuns, the whole bit. in reference to Magdalene Laundries, this was a red flag of major proportions for Joni. I imagine it was something that had affected her on many levels (I dont pretend to know any/ all of them). But, given her experience within the difficulties she faced, surrendering her baby, she would have been white washed with that familiar blame/shame of the girls in Ireland, and beyond. What am I trying to say. It's a ridiculous social construct . Sure, call it a prison. That's what it was, with or without the bars, and keys thrown away. I suppose, for those who have a personal connection to such things, it is a big deal. old wounds and all that. prisons. yep. an imposition of the Catholic Church to say that pregnant , unwed mothers have to be "imprisoned" , pushed behind the heaps of dirty laundry. pull into the quagmire, the sins of the priests who did who knows what. it's not easy to discuss this, but hopefully some of what I am saying is making some sort of sense. Mags, trying to stay on the fence of lurkdom, but not having a great deal of success. npimh: let me speak, let me spit out my bitterness. - --------------------------------- Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:13:38 +0200 From: "Marian Russell" Subject: Re: BYT I *love* BYT on Shine. It's just terrific in so many ways: Joni's beautiful voice, new melodic ideas, very interesting instrumentation, great rhythm. I feel happy when I listen to it. It's not a song that has ever been a favorite of mine until now. It is a pleasant and unexpected surprise and IMO it's possibly one of the most creative reworking of one of her songs that she has ever done. Go, Joni! Marian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel BYRNE" To: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 8:57 PM Subject: BYT > Like a few people here i've never been a great fan of BYT, for all that's > it > catchy and clever. I think i was mainly put off by that horribly > fake-sounding > laugh at the end, on Ladies of the C - i know it's mayby *meant* to sound > forced and 'deluded' as the song segues into the elegiac Woodstock, but it > always amazed me that somebody with such a ready spontaneous sense of > humour > could sound so cringeingly fake-girly - and then the horrible voice-breaks > in > the Woodstock yodelling put me off those tracks forever! BYT 2007 is > good, > but IMO doesn't beat the live version on Painting... with SUCH a cool > syncopated guitar rhythm, and Joni's Dylan impersonation - just brilliant! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Feel like a local wherever you go. > http://www.backofmyhand.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #333 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)