From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #329 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 18 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 329 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- joni tribute santa barbara ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Car On A Hill... long (& banal) ["Eric Taylor" ] RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #328 [Michel BYRNE ] Re: Car On A Hill... long (& banal) [Victor Johnson ] SV: Another English lesson : A Case of You ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: Car On A Hill... long (& banal) ["Azeem Ali Khan" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:25:53 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: joni tribute santa barbara Sunday, November 11th at soho restaurant & music club http://www.sohosb.com/ Reservations required- we always sell out Its been a few years since the last one & I'm excited to be doing this again, & as usual it's a benefit to keep music in the elementary schools of SB (Keep the Beat) I'm finally giving you all a head's up as it hasn't even gone out to my mailing list yet! Kate ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 04:38:06 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Car On A Hill... long (& banal) Cassy said: >> The word that keeps coming to mind to describe "Shine" for me is... Banal. Warmly, Cassy NP: Joni - The Wolf that lives in Lindsey << Yeash! There was nothing "warm" about this brutal review. It is even colder than the RS BS which said Joni is "a bad example of environmentalism." I would not have commented upon this "banal" post unless I noticed you were listening to TWTLIL (one of my all time fav Joni tunes). It sometimes drives me crazy how people are so attached to the past that they are unable to grasp new masterpieces, which are increasingly rare these days. I just don't understand how or why a Joni fan could label SHINE "banal." My guess is that you live in California and don't like a chain-smoking Canadian reminding us of how screwed up America has become. ET $ you see those lovely hills $ they won't be there for long $ $ they're gonna tear them down and sell them to California $$$... $ when this place is a moonscape don't tell me I didn't warn ya! ~Joni Mitchell, SHINE 2007 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:47:06 +0000 From: Michel BYRNE Subject: RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #328 > Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 03:00:10 -0400 > From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org > To: joni@smoe.orgonlyjoni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #328 Hi guys been enjoying the various threads. Just a few thoughts. SCOTT - thanks for bringing up Passion Play - I nearly jumped with excitement. I've always loved that song - it's so vivid, and yet so intriguing, leaving lots to our own imagination and reflection. I've never paused to think about the colours, I have to admit, they just work so well visually. But i always just assumed Exxon blue to refer to oil spills, so the war suggestion is interesting. It suggests to me a rather nightmarish vision of ghosts entering on stage. But I love the use of the New Testament characters- Mary Magdalen , and little Zacchaeus (tax-collector, I think?) up in his tree trying to see and be seen by Jesus, and then the crucifixion reference. I've never been able to totally work it out intellectually, but the message I get is of humanity and the planet being in a mess and needing redemption, both individually, and collectively. In a way, the song would totally belong on Shine. Brilliant, elusive lyrics, and those beautiful hypnotic guitar riffs! For a long time I tried to find an explanation from Joni herself about how the song came about, what she was trying to say - but now I think it's best left to us all to respond and find our own meanings. That doesnt answer your question, sorry Scott, but I was just so pleased to see you mentioning the song. A CASE OF YOU. To be honest, I only really got totally hit by that song in its BSN version. I was never a fan of Joni's 'helium' voice (as she calls it now), and her high swoops just put me off the song for years - but the recent version is a stunner. Again, I'm not sure a clear rational, intellectual explanation is the best thing to look for in art - but I just love the depth of the 'case of wine' image- a mixture, I think, of 'I love you so much I could get drunk on you', 'I have what it takes to survive this destructive relationship, to still stand in spite of the intoxication (I will survive)', with the religious connotation of the holy wine of the Mass, the blood of Christ, sacrifice. It's an amazing blend of passion, violence, clear-sightedness. SHINE. I really wish now I hadnt read the lyrics before hearing the music, or the many comments (and reviews) - though it's been fascinating to read all your thoughts since. But it all git in the way of simply responding to the songs. Some of the lyrics that I hated on the page (I mean... 'history, his story' - please!!!) simply, miraculously, work with the music - Strong is Wrong isnt quite my favourite, but it's way better than I expected - sure the lyrics are simplistic, but then the song is built on a cliche (Might is Right) and tackles it with its own weapons - and the piano is irresistible, so that the song comes across as SO reflective, contemplative, rather than sloganising or preachy. I do agree with some posts here that some of the writing is weak, but after many listens I can only really think of two instances: (1) the 'money money money' section of This Place verse 2 - thank God the bear comes in! - but the other two verses are powerful ; and (2) the awful couplet about drivers on cellphones in Shine - flat, boring, without the humour of the preceding 'asshole' couplet, and an awful lead in to the Catholic Church reference. It almost ruins the song for me. But the rest, to me, are Joni in full form - Night of the Iguana - that's as strong a 'character sketch' as she's ever drawn; Hana, love the 'like a champ / light the lamp' parallel. On the page If I Had a Heart didnt impress, but with that melody (especially the minor section), and that voice... how can you resist! It's the sax on Track 1 that really irirtated me initially (couldnt she just let the piano be for a few minutes, without smothering it in wind and brass?), but it's grown on me more and more; the varied B parts (Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday) are particularly lovely, the good old bear brings a smile, and the corny angelic 'voices' at the end work perfectly, IMHO. Apologies for the overlong post. Thanks to all for the lively discussions! Mike in cold and sunny Edinburgh. _________________________________________________________________ Celeb spotting  Play CelebMashup and win cool prizes https://www.celebmashup.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:25:57 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Car On A Hill... long (& banal) On Oct 17, 2007, at 4:38 AM, Eric Taylor wrote: > Cassy said: > >>> The word that keeps coming to mind to describe "Shine" for me >>> is... Banal. > Warmly, > Cassy > NP: Joni - The Wolf that lives in Lindsey << > > Yeash! > There was nothing "warm" about this brutal review. It is even > colder than the RS BS which said Joni is "a bad example of > environmentalism." > I would not have commented upon this "banal" post unless I > noticed you were listening to TWTLIL (one of my all time fav Joni > tunes). > It sometimes drives me crazy how people are so attached to the > past that they are unable to grasp new masterpieces, which are > increasingly rare these days. > This response reminds me of the people who are all up in arms just because Joni mentioned the Catholic church in "Shine". People have different opinions and viewpoints. Its really not that big of a deal. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 07:19:39 -0700 (PDT) From: rian afriadi Subject: Re: Re: Car On A Hill (long) .... good intros <<>>> All i can say is that Court and Spark has the best song intros compared with the other albums. You're right, Car On A Hill and Down To You are good, but let's not forget intros of "Just Like This Train", "Free Man In Paris" and "Help Me". Non C&S song that has good intro (that i like) : Impossible Dreamer. Non C&S album that has good intro : Blue ("california", "carey", "a case of you", "richard". i won't mention "river" since actually the intro is "jingle bells" NP : The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines (studio version) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 09:28:11 -0700 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Car On A Hill... long (& banal) From: "Eric Taylor" <<>> And my listening to an old favorite labels me exactly how? oh yeah... you went on to analyse me <<< It sometimes drives me crazy how people are so attached to the past that they are unable to grasp new masterpieces, which are increasingly rare these days. I just don't understand how or why a Joni fan could label SHINE "banal." >>> Each of us has our own opinions (which I said I wouldn't share for exactly this reason and just slipped in a comment) If I were to post an actual "review", rather than a random comment, I suspect you would happily crucify me for my point of view. The fact that you don't understand how or why should have been your first clue to just ask why I feel this way rather than labelling me as "unable to grasp modern masterpieces". <<< My guess is that you live in California and don't like a chain-smoking Canadian reminding us of how screwed up America has become. >>> Well aren't you the epitomy of brilliant deductions? Cassy NP: Mark Knopfler - We Can Get Wild ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:14:39 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Another English lesson : A Case of You Hi Mark, nice interpretation. I, too, think it's a song of farewell. But I also think the "case of you" indicates that it is her head and not her heart who says goodbye. If you drink a case of wine, it can have a number of effects. Amongst other things, you would feel dizzy, at least, and maybe you would feel sick, and if you are not strong enough, you might pass out. I think that by saying she could drink a case of "you" she is saying that she is strong enough to take the hurt that parting inflicts on her. Just another interpretation. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Mark-Leon Thorne Skickat: den 17 oktober 2007 08:01 Till: mrianab_5098@yahoo.com Kopia: JMDL Dmne: Re: Another English lesson : A Case of You Hi Rian. Sorry if this question has already been answered but, I lost the use of my computer for several days and am just now catching up on digests. Like much of Joni's wordplays, it is difficult to understand what she is referring to. Even us native English speakers. It is her complex metaphors that keep many people intrigued. A Case of You has been discussed a lot here because it is one of her more complex. Joni is using a case of wine or some other alcoholic beverage as a metaphor for the person who is the subject of the song. If the person is a case of wine, she could drink it all and have no affect. The reason for this is the subject of discussions in the past. I am still not clear on what she is trying to convey. Does this mean that the person no longer has an affect on her? Has the love died? If you drink a case of wine and it has no affect on you, does that mean all potency has gone from it or does it mean that you have built an immunity to it and need something stronger? In the end, the need is the same, I suspect; you must move on. I think A Case of You is a song of farewell. It always struck me as a very sad song. Just one interpretation. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:37:38 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: Nobel Joni I have written a warm and enthusiastic mail to the organizer of the noble peace price concert in Oslo, where I suggest that our First Lady ms. Joni Mitchell should be invited to contribute on this years concert. I think it would be such a great choice. I believe this would be a perfect way of paying respect to Al Gore as well as the *Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)* I find Joni's effort and hope to make the world a better place (even though it seems rather hopeless) trulu encouraging, and it all shines so clearly throught the whole album* Shine*. I wish Joni could see this as a perfect opportunity, both to show her great impact as one *the* *leading writer and musican* today - as well as a chance to spread some of those important seeds of hope that we all need to see, in this world today. If the Nobel Peace Price arrangers by chance should not be not affected of my mail, I believe I will have to ask our Dear and Loved Patti Parlette to write her heart out, so that they see, that this Joni choice is the perfect choice **** :-) That's my little seed of hope, spread to the world ! Go, Joni, go, go, go "They all matter" (Hana) Love and Peace *Oddmund, Norway ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:10:41 +0100 From: "Azeem Ali Khan" Subject: Re: Car On A Hill... long (& banal) I'm with you Cassy - I find Shine mostly trite and lacking in depth lyrically - though with a few bright spots here and there. Musically it's nothing to write home about either, with the exception of Night of the Iguana, which has a real spark to it and (as others have noted) a great bass line. I remember being hauled over the coals a few years ago, when Travelogue came out, for having the temerity to post to the list about how much I hated the first disc. My views could be dismissed by this person (can't remember who it was) on the grounds that I hadn't listened to the whole wretched thing. I did manage to get through the second disc, and it sounded no better. Ah well, for some folk, ad hominem sniping helps to avoid the possibility that contrary views are just as valid. Azeem in London On 10/17/07, Cassy wrote: > > From: "Eric Taylor" > > << were listening to TWTLIL (one of my all time fav Joni tunes). >>> > > And my listening to an old favorite labels me exactly how? oh yeah... you > went on to analyse me > > <<< It sometimes drives me crazy how people are so attached to the past > that > they are unable to grasp new masterpieces, which are increasingly rare > these > days. I just don't understand how or why a Joni fan could label SHINE > "banal." >>> > > Each of us has our own opinions (which I said I wouldn't share for exactly > this reason and just slipped in a comment) If I were to post an actual > "review", rather than a random comment, I suspect you would happily > crucify > me for my point of view. The fact that you don't understand how or why > should have been your first clue to just ask why I feel this way rather > than > labelling me as "unable to grasp modern masterpieces". > > <<< My guess is that you live in California and don't like a chain-smoking > Canadian reminding us of how screwed up America has become. >>> > > Well aren't you the epitomy of brilliant deductions? > > Cassy > > NP: Mark Knopfler - We Can Get Wild ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:21:09 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Shine favorite/least favorite.. Monika writes > My favorite songs are still Shine and If and I have decided I don't like > Hana. Got to agree with you there Moni. "Shine" and "One Week Last Summer" are still my favs. I don't dislike "Hana", but it's my least favorite. Jimmy ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:21:23 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: FW: Message from website Can anyone help David? - -----Original Message----- It is my hope that you might be able to help me. I have recently (re)discovered the beautiful music of Miss Mitchell. I learned that the song "The Circle Game" is hers. I have heard that song in a movie, being sung by group of children in a school presentation. I believe Ron Silver was one of the actors but I can not find anything on IMDB.com. Would anyone at this site be able to tell me what movies have licensed the song The Circle Game and if I am correct in saying Ron Silver was a part of the movie? There is a movie on IMBD.com listed "The Circle Game (1994)" but this does not appear to be anything like what I saw. I only saw the final scene in the movie in which the children are doing their performance and the older characters seem to be reconciling their issues while in the audience. I do not know what the movie's title or plot is. All I know it I fell in love with the song the children were singing (the circle game) and now that I've heard it again by Miss Mitchell, it has made me want to find the movie. Any help would be wonderful. If you can not be of assistance, I thank you for your time reading this mini novel and wish you a good day. David Name: David Good email: dwgood@sbcglobal.net ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #329 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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