From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #326 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, October 15 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 326 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The way I see it, Shine... [Monika Bogdanowicz ] Re: The way I see it, Shine... [jeannie ] Re:Comparisons ["Eric Taylor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:00:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Monika Bogdanowicz Subject: Re: The way I see it, Shine... Ok, I understand what you're saying. I just commented on the content of the lyrics due to some of the reviews I read (both from critics and fans alike) that focused on the nature of those lyrics. Nobody on this list mentioned not liking Shine or parts of Shine because of the content lyrically but I noticed outside of the JMDL, that is one of the primary reasons why some are just dismissing the album entirely. I think a song can survive with poorly written lyrics (not that I think Shine has poor lyrics, I am only speaking generally here) but can not survive with bad music. Think of a lot of that early rock-n-roll. A good part of it wasn't even written about anything at all ("be bop a lula, she's my baby") but I still consider those good songs. There are many songs with poor lyrics out there that still are good songs... Now when a song has BOTH good music and good lyrics, then that is like the apple martini of all liquor (meaning the best! I do like my appletinis). Would you agree that a song could have poor lyrics and still be good but not have it the other way around (a song with great lyrics with bad music being a good song)? Anyway, my point is that the critics and fans who decide not to give Shine a chance becuase of the specific nature of the lyrics are consequently missing out on some wonderful, musical moments. Although, I do like the lyrics on Shine. Are they Joni's best? Well no, not as a whole (I'd say maybe Hejira or Blue have the best words as a whole) but there are plenty of good lyrics on the album in my opinion. They are quite different than Hejira or Blue or any of her other albums I would think. All of Joni's albums seem to be quite different from one another. I love that about her work. Every album is entirely its own album, complete with a different tone, style, etc, etc. This album, I think, is deliberately simple lyrically. Joni, I don't think, wanted to disguise anything or hide anything with metaphors that some people may not understand. I think she wanted to put it all out there on a clean plate with no utensils needed (meaning no need to dig into the words for the most part!). I think the message on the album is what she wanted to highlight. I'm only speculating as I've never sat down and asked her what her intentions were! Someday Joni...someday...we shall have a long chat about life and love and everything in between....haha. -Monika "We all come and go unknown.." Deb Messling wrote: My problem with the Shine lyrics are not that I don't agree with them (far from it!!), it's that I don't think they are as well crafted as some of her other lyrics. Although the more I listen, the more I realize that some of the lyrics are more complex than they appear at first blush. At 10:32 AM 10/14/2007, you wrote: > > My point is that a song can still be a good song despite what > you relate to the lyrics. Does that make sense? My second point > is how funny it is that as soon as anything political/about society > enters the picture, it is dismissed by those who don't agree with it. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:28:03 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: The way I see it, Shine... My sister called me this evening, also having a problem, not with the lyrics, but with the instrumentation in, 'Shine.' She went on to ask me why Joni didn't do something again like, 'Blue.' "Pardon me," I asked, "You were expecting another, 'Blue' album?" She replied, "Let me reword that. No, I'm not asking for a Blue repeat. What I want the girls to feel with Joni's music(she has three daughters, ages 16, 14, and 12--the same age my sisters and I were when we were getting into Blue) is what we felt back then, during the blue period. You know, love stories, first lessons on how to survive love's first stings and pains. An album for girls, like Blue was for us. The girls are still not that familiar with the jazzy sounds. I want them to hear Joni's way of strumming her guitar, alone, with no other music. That's what I want." "I get what you're saying. For now, just keep listening to Shine. Joni'll come up with something, sooner or later, for fair and tender maidens, maybe." We said our good-byes and wished each other a good night and she ended off, telling me she was going to listen to Shine tonight, all to herself, alone, finally. Good for her. jeannie Deb Messling wrote: My problem with the Shine lyrics are not that I don't agree with them (far from it!!), it's that I don't think they are as well crafted as some of her other lyrics. Although the more I listen, the more I realize that some of the lyrics are more complex than they appear at first blush. At 10:32 AM 10/14/2007, you wrote: > > My point is that a song can still be a good song despite what > you relate to the lyrics. Does that make sense? My second point > is how funny it is that as soon as anything political/about society > enters the picture, it is dismissed by those who don't agree with it. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:52:28 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re:Comparisons Bobsart wrote in part: >> In my youth I loved the Beatles, and still do, really. I'd just invariably prefer to listen to Joni - her art is that superior << I couldn't agree more! Meet The Beetles was my first album and I still adore all of their music. I also love the Moody Blues, Dan Fogelberg, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Paul Simon, Steely Dan, Pink Floyd and U2 but I don't listen to them NEARLY as much as I listen to Joni. I could never get bored with Joni's music because I continue hearing new subtle beauty almost every time I listen. Most people think I'm nuts when I say I think Joni Mitchell is the greatest composer since Beethoven but I increasingly suspect that history will slowly come around to this conclusion when her total brilliance finally sinks in. ET ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #326 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)