From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #313 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 4 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 313 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Another take on Shine [Em ] Re: Night of the Iguana [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Shiny love songs [robmsteen@aol.com] Re: Shiny Love Songs [waytoblue@comcast.net] Re: my take on Shine - I know you all have been waiting [Bryan ] Shine review (personal) ["william burnworth" ] Re: M\Richard's weird vanity offering [jeannie ] Re: my take on Shine - I know you all have been waiting [jeannie ] The Emergence of Joni Mitchell [David Sapp ] Top 15 [Rusty10113@aol.com] A couple Shining comments [David Sapp ] Re: Top 15 [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: Shine on mixed feelings [Garret ] Re: Shiny Love Songs ["William Elliott" ] Re: Shiny Love Songs ["starvingartist" ] Re: Shiny Love Songs [Bob Muller ] Re: Night of the Iguana [KEVIN DOHENY ] Re: M\Richard's weird vanity offering [Bob Muller ] Joni Mitchell: Still Smoking (interview) [Deb Messling ] RE: M\Richard's weird vanity offering ["Richard Flynn" ] Coming Soon - FREE Joni Mitchell iTune CARD - Night of the Iguana @Starbucks [est86mlm@amerite] Re: The first Shine cover (sort of) ["Jerry Notaro" ] Shine [mia _ ] Shine debuts in Billboard top 15! [Bryan ] A Black Mansiere [Deb Messling ] WIRED interview - Herbie Hancock talks Joni [est86mlm@ameritech.net] Re: A Black Mansiere [ajfashion@att.net] Albuquerque web-radio broadcast ["Barbara Stewart" ] The Emergence of Joni Mitchell [JILL A HAAS ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 03:59:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Another take on Shine Hi Azeem, its really good to see you back on list. :) I pretty much agree with what you wrote 100%. Been trying to formulate it myself, but you did it for me. The album has pleasing sounds within the songs. It does engage me, as a listener, which I feared it would not. If anything, I think it bodes well for Joni's next effort, should she choose to make that next effort. I feel like fully-melodied songs are *almost* ready to flow from her. ( I feel a tad guilty trying to pry that from her) Makes me wonder why she is so allergic to the idea of writing a piece of music with a great sticky melody to it. On another note: I gave my copy of Hancock's "River" to my mom (after copying it into my iTunes) because, well because I am just hopelessly retarded when it comes to jazz. That said, it sure sounded more listenable and more fascinating on her system, in her wide open listening space. I was compelled to listen to the all instrumental "A Case of You" a few times. What a fantastic melody even sans words! Even tho the jazz version is kind of like looking at it through a kaleidoscope. Or some kind of human photoshop filter....not sure how to explain - and of course you all know way more about it than me, anyway. So I look forward to listening to HH's ACOY many more times, soon. To absorbing it, maybe. And the other cuts too, possibly, eventually. My stereo BITES. No spatial quality to it whatsoever. Decent components - - I guess its just the room. The CD sounded sooooooo much better at my Mom's, even tho she has way too many reflective hard surfaces. Anyhoo, Mom ADORES the HH album and I am trying to take it in. To receive it in, if that makes any sense. It slightly fascinates me more with every listen. I truly want to *get it*, but what can I say? its over my head, lol. Em - --- Azeem Ali Khan wrote: > Musically, there's some good stuff. I like Night of the Iguana a > lot, and I > dare say it's even better if you've read the novel. If I Had a Heart > is > nice (sorry to damn with faint praise), with that lovely chord change > in the > chorus. Some of the arrangements are very pleasing, although I find > a > little pedal steel can go a looooong way; and I agree with those > who've > objected to some of the synth washes. My main gripe is with the > actual > tunes. There's not one great melody here to these ears, and on a lot > of the > songs, she seems to be singing little riffs rather than a sustained > melody. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 08:25:29 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Night of the Iguana My sweetie pie wrote: > Shine is a TRIUMPH! I really want to write a full length "review" but I > threw my back out and it's kinda hard to sit here and type but rest assured it's > a comin > Hi Kev, I hope you feel better soon. I know the pain a back can give you. I'm looking forward to your review of Shine. Yes, we are very blessed to have it. I was thinking this when I was listening to Shine and driving yesterday. I was thinking how Joni's music and song has given me so much life. So has her discussion list. I love Night of the Iguana. I was listening to it over and over again yesterday trying to get the story more and more. I didn't know there was a movie by the same title. Does it have to do with Joni's song? Love, Laura ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:55:20 -0400 From: robmsteen@aol.com Subject: Re: Shiny love songs Hi, I know where you're coming from Mark, but, speaking as someone who is approaching their half-century with forbidding and indecent haste, is there not a tendency, as we get older, to get more insular, more complacent, and less questioning of matters beyond our immediate concern? If that is indeed so, all power to Joni for choosing instead to re-focus on what drove her to her finest work (in my view anyway), ie Hissing and Hejira's accent on the universal rather than the personal. The world needs her wisdom. I'm not sure I need to know any more about her as a person: the evidence is there in words and muse. What I am interested in hearing is musical experimentation - and One Week Last Summer and Night of the Iguana do enough on that score to compensate for some of the formularisation elsewhere - and the worldview of someone who - shameless journalistic cliche coming - has seen life from both sides. I got Shine on Monday, the same day I bought Bruce Springsteen's newie. Both have done more than enough for me to earn the right to produce half-good albums at this stage of their careers. Who'd have thunk that they'd still be strutting their stuff in middle-age? Not me. I suppose I'm just grateful that they are still capable of inspiring my feet, stirring my blood, jostling my brain cells and making me shed the odd tear. The CD has forced artists to over-stretch themselves, to turn 35-minute nuggets into 55-minute rock formations. Over the past decade, I can think of only two albums of original material that I have been able to sit all the way through on a repeated basis. One is Todd Rundgren's Liars, the other Prefab Sprout's acoustic reinvention of their 1980s classic Steve McQueen (or Two Wheels Good as you may otherwise know it on the other side of the pond!). Given that I have bought around 300 CDs in that time, this does not lead to massive expectations. So, again, I am grateful, at a time when other favourites such as Van Morrison have let me down so frequently that they no longer command my unquestioning pounds/dollars, that Joni and Bruce are still adding songs to the canon. I realise this is turning into an essay, but one last point. Imagine that you have Joni's back catalogue. Imagine what it must be like to know, at your core, that every time you set out to record something new, the audience that it is most likely to attract will inevitably measure it against what has gone before. And, almost invariably, to express their inevitable disappointment with a sense of having been betrayed. To have such a problem may seem rather pleasant. I wouldn't want it for all the duck in Peking. Labouring in comparative anonymity may not pay as much, but at least you always have something to prove. What does Joni have to prove? Nothing to me. So thank-you, dear Roberta Joan, for getting back on that joanna and writing One Week Last Summer, and getting Bob Sheppard to join in. I know I'll still be listening to it for a few summers yet. Love Rob NP Your Own Worst Enemy - Broooooce! ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:57:43 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > sales as most people would sooner listen to topics of love than to the > dire state of the orb.> > > That doesn't make much sense to me. I've NEVER bought an album based on > what topic a songwriter was singing about and I doubt that people do > that...pick up a CD, try and figure out the subject matter, and then > decide whether or not to buy it. If any of you do engage in that kind of > behavior I'd like to hear it. Doesn't make sense to me either...and what I also disagree with is this statement suggests that there's something sad about wanting to listen to love songs. Music is all about love. It's not the job of music to solve the problems of the world. Love songs are everywhere. The opera arias I'm learning (Addio, fiorito asil & Una furtiva lagrime) are love songs...I keep learning more and more jazz standards- they're love songs. There's nothing wrong with wanting to listen to love songs. Sure, the world is in dire straits but that's not a determining factor in the music I listen to or buy, nor does the music I listen to or buy have anything to do with my feelings or concerns about the state of the world . At the end of the day, you still have to laugh or smile and/or find something to be happy about. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 05:58:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Re: my take on Shine - I know you all have been waiting Deb -- Your Shine "review" below really nails it, you said it better than I can. The voice (better than in years) and the music engage me so much that I can get past the largely unpoetic lyrics. Though I dissed the lyrics earlier, I have to say now that, given the subject matter and the world and times in which we live, they seem appropriate. Unpoetic but still somehow straight to the heart. Part of the success of that is Joni's vocal phrasing, her nuances and emotion. She is better than anybody at that. Bryan From: Deb Messling Subject: my take on Shine - I know you all have been waiting I've been listening for a week now. I have to force myself to play any other music, and everything else pales by comparison. I love her singing on this record; I love the piano. The music is beautiful and memorable. The title tune makes me teary, and it's not even about the words - it's just the melody and the voice that breaks my heart a little. The lyrics? Not so great, not nearly at the level of Hejira or DJRD. I'm accustomed to social commentary that's more nuanced and more poetic (Bruce Cockburn, for example). On the other hand, I don't turn to Joni for political analysis, and she does manage a line or two that has some beauty in it. It seems that in this record Joni is all heart (or all nerves and feelings, maybe), and so the wordsmith part of her is scaled back. I'm luxuriating in the sounds, and have I mentioned I love her singing on this record? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:24:57 +0100 From: "Anita Tedder" Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs Aleda wrote: "OK, here's a question (probably naive): do you all think we miss the love songs?" BN said; "Yes! We miss the love songs! I was wondering if that guy (sorry I can't remember who it was) who was complaining about this CD being soulless is just missing the love songs." I was thinking, it could be said that much of this is a (dark) love song to the planet." Holy Earth, how can we heal you?" Azeem wrote a great critique - and I have read so much that's interested me about people's takes on 'Shine'. It's true, there's a lot that's very naff - but I am still just delighted to see the Muse (even though she has undoubtedly whispered some awful rhymes in Joni's ear) has also dropped a few pearls. Joni and me go back 40 years, so I am going to maintain my position of filling myself with sixty seconds of wonder and delight that she's written at all. For better or worse! Anita ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:43:04 -0400 From: "william burnworth" Subject: Shine review (personal) I'm in the camp with my old customer from way back when I owned a record store in Anderson, Indiana who would say whenever a new Joni came out in the 80s (very loosely quoted): "She could put out an album of herself farting in a bathtub and I would love it." and mine arrived from Amazon with Herbie on the Friday after its release..it's been on regular rotation since and snippets are already in my head when I awaken..Good Days and blessings to all of us.. Love and hugs to you all, William (in Miami now from New Orleans in 2004) - -- William Burnworth www.artpurses.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:16:53 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: M\Richard's weird vanity offering Richard, I can't get your '75 recording to download on this laptop. It's stuck at 29%. This is bumming me right now that I have quiet time in my room because I want to hear you sing about the Midway. That song is so special to me in so many ways. I love the contrast of a ruby earring on a Black man's ear. Someone here, if I recall correctly, said Joni borrowed that from Wille the Shake. Did she? I do not know Shakespeare's complete works. I've recently read where's there's speculation going round that Shakespeare could not have been the sole author of his works. Out of the blue, for me, that was a shock. Yet the reasons stated made sense. Either way, in '75, I was graduating from high school, new crossroads were coming my way and I was lost in wanderlust with Joni's music. So, I want to go back in time to the days of our youth. I'll try downloading it later on my son's mac--that's always a good one with downloads. Oh, and thanks for the previous clarification concerning that e-mail address--I figured it out after I asked you how could it be. Have a good day, Richard and All! Let's see if I can get Herbie Hancock today. So far, all I've heard is good. Jeannie ~Well I met on you on the Midway At a fair last year And you stood out like a ruby In a black man's year.~ Isn't that striking? I love that stanza Richard Flynn wrote: OK, so I was transferring these old cassette tapes to digital and I came upon this tape I recorded in my parents' basement in 1975. On this tape was my version of "That Song About the Midway." I was 20 and, well, on medication, but I think it's pretty ok despite wavering vocals. If you want it, here it is: http://download.yousendit.com/E40872C11126F779 - --------------------------------- Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:24:14 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Fw: Joni Mitchell radio / web special - today! 1:30 Mtn = 3:30pm Eastern = 8:30pm UK B ====================== From: "Richard Messum" I'm forwarding the below verbatim from another List i belong to. =========== Thought some folks out there might find this interesting. These are shows that are produced here in Albuquerque. The last one I heard was quite good, so it might be worth a listen if you are a Joni fan. The Emergence of Joni Mitchell Wednesday, Oct. 3 from 1:30 - 4:00 pm Mountain Time on KUNM (89.9 FM / or listen online at www.kunm.org ( http://www.kunm.org> )). ..a two-hour examination of one of the most heralded songwriters of her time, Joni Mitchell. In this third installment of his series on the seminal work of important figures in popular music, Ingles and guest commentators explore how Joni Mitchell crafted her artistry and connected with audiences over four decades. Mitchell put the experience of being a woman and being human on artful display through her blatantly honest and confessional lyrics, innovative open guitar tunings and jazz-inflected vocals. The program focuses on Mitchell's key releases to illuminate the musicianship of the woman Rolling Stone called "one of rock's most daring and uncompromising innovators." By mixing Mitchell's music from these pivotal moments with informed commentary from musicians, fans, music critics and archival interviews with Mitchell herself, The Emergence of Joni Mitchell articulates what music lovers have found so compelling about this thoughtful and innovative writer and performer. Special guests include music writers Ann Powers, Anthony DeCurtis, Paul Zollo, Lydia Hutchinson, and Holly George-Warren. Also featured are musicians Shawn Colvin, Lucy Kaplansky, Herbie Hancock and others. Joni Mitchell's first album with new songs in over 10 years has just been released. More details, an audio preview and some pictures at http://www.paulingles.com/mitchell.h tml ( http://www.paulingles.com/mitchell.html> ) - -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.39/1044 - Release Date: 10/2/2007 11:10 AM from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:28:19 +0000 From: Patti Parlette Subject: sjc, Raising up white banners WARNING: POLITICAL CONTENTShine on another asshole passing (lies) on the right:Here's an Iraq war vet's 30-second response to that smug fool Rush Limbaugh's comment about "phony soldiers" who don't support the war:https://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/1138/t/376/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page _KEY=1755A powerful and credible message, imo. This vet has got the fight *and* he's got the insight. It's supposed to show on FOX and CNN today and tomorrow.Don't put up a white flagRaise upA white bannerIn this manner-Straighten your backDig in your healsI'm raising up white banners for peace now more than ever these days, thanks to Joni's renaissance which has given me (m)any reason(s) to resume. Mille mercis, Joni! Love,Patti P. P.S. And because you know life is for learning, I seek more sweet inspiration tomorrow at this lecture: ""The Crises of the 21st Century - Some Gandhian Solutions," will be delivered by Ela Gandhi, peace activist and former Member of Parliament in South Africa from 1994 to 2004. During apartheid she was banned from political activism and subjected to house arrest for nine years. In Parliament Ms. Gandhi aligned herself with the African National Congress party and represented the area of her birth in the KwaZulu Natal province near Durban. Granddaughter of the Mahatma Gandhi, she founded the Gandhi Development Trust, developed a 24-hour program against domestic violence, and currently serves as Chancellor of Durban University of Technology. Sponsors: Asian American Studies Institute, Asian American Cultural Center, Jain Center of Greater Hartford, Women's Studies Program, Women's Center, UNESCO Chair and Institute of Comparative Human Rights, India Studies Program, Dept. of History" _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:38:18 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: my take on Shine - I know you all have been waiting So far, Deb's nailed it for me too. Last night I stayed up listening to the lyrics critically. It doesn't work for me that way. I figured I may be more sensitive to it all, since I've recently had to go through the pain of losing my dear ol' Fr. Delaney and my Persian cat, I was so ready and ripe for new hope and to hear bells of truths ring again and listen to some sweet, short her-stories, be them bitter or sweet, it's the Joni I've known for so long coming back to me and that's one of my life's greatest joys. Yet, I can understand where the so-called 'lazy' or 'weak' lyrics could be, some have mentioned. I just see them as little stepping stones leading me on to sturdier rocks, then maybe a little step, a little stop, and then ten big leaps, a big jump, and on and on. Thanks, Deb, and Bryan, for bringing this on. Truly, Jeannie Bryan wrote: Deb -- Your Shine "review" below really nails it, you said it better than I can. The voice (better than in years) and the music engage me so much that I can get past the largely unpoetic lyrics. Though I dissed the lyrics earlier, I have to say now that, given the subject matter and the world and times in which we live, they seem appropriate. Unpoetic but still somehow straight to the heart. Part of the success of that is Joni's vocal phrasing, her nuances and emotion. She is better than anybody at that. Bryan From: Deb Messling Subject: my take on Shine - I know you all have been waiting I've been listening for a week now. I have to force myself to play any other music, and everything else pales by comparison. I love her singing on this record; I love the piano. The music is beautiful and memorable. The title tune makes me teary, and it's not even about the words - it's just the melody and the voice that breaks my heart a little. The lyrics? Not so great, not nearly at the level of Hejira or DJRD. I'm accustomed to social commentary that's more nuanced and more poetic (Bruce Cockburn, for example). On the other hand, I don't turn to Joni for political analysis, and she does manage a line or two that has some beauty in it. It seems that in this record Joni is all heart (or all nerves and feelings, maybe), and so the wordsmith part of her is scaled back. I'm luxuriating in the sounds, and have I mentioned I love her singing on this record? - --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:10:28 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Strong and Wrong chords Danilo asked for help with the chord changes to Strong and Wrong. I thought I'd make the chart available to all who want it... http://www.yousendit.com/download/www/cUJVZHlqVEg5bEEwTVE9PQ cheers, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:06:29 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: The Emergence of Joni Mitchell I just listened to this radio show and it is an enjoyable, informative and respectful 2 hour career retrospective. A real highlight for me were the interviews with several of our list members... totally cool. ... signing off for now, Peace, David It is available at www.coolstreams.org - --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:07:28 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Top 15 Been so curious about Joni's chart position for Shine and saw this eonline.com link... this must be her best debut since the 70s, right? Just missing the Top 10, the Grammy-winning and Oscar-nominated Queen Latifah sold 51,000 copies of Trav'lin Light to crown the number 11 spot. Melissa Etheridge's The Awakening debuted at 13 on 48,000 copies, Joni Mitchell's Shine sold 40,000 copies at 14 and Chaka Khan's Funk This funked out 39,000 copies at 15. http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=4b4e2c5e-2d7d-4b0e-85cd-744 e3b172224 ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 13:17:00 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: A couple Shining comments I am hearing, or perhaps feeling would be a better word, a couple influences on Shine. In the arrangements I hear influences from Travelogue... the layers of sound. The electronic layers sound much more symphonic to me then say the layers on DED.I also hear it in Joni's singing... the impeccable phrasing and how she seems to be floating and/or surfing on top of the arrangement. In a way on some of these songs, This Place and Hanna and others I can't name at the moment, her voice and melody seem completely untethered from the arrangement... similar to what she did in the Mingus material in that it seems as if the arrangement doesn't give her anything to hang her vocal on and yet she pulls it off beautifully. One of the prime examples of this type of work would be Sweet Sucker Dance. I have always loved Travelogue and I know that it is much maligned but I believe that Shine would be much less accomplished in its arrangements had she not had that orchestral experience... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:33:56 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Top 15 To answer my own question...according to Variety, it is her highest-charting position in 30 years, when "Hejira" reached No. 13. > Been so curious about Joni's chart position for Shine and saw this > eonline.com link... this must be her best debut since the 70s, right? > > Just missing the Top 10, the Grammy-winning and Oscar-nominated Queen > Latifah > sold 51,000 copies of Trav'lin Light to crown the number 11 spot. Melissa > Etheridge's The Awakening debuted at 13 on 48,000 copies, Joni Mitchell's > Shine > sold 40,000 copies at 14 and Chaka Khan's Funk This funked out 39,000 copies > at > 15. > > http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=4b4e2c5e-2d7d-4b0e-85cd-74 > 4 > e3b172224 > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:19:13 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Re: Shine on mixed feelings Marion, Your song by song account of Shine mirrors my own thoughts on it. It is uncanny. I thought for a moment i had written it;-) GARRET NP- Jens Lekman, Pocketful of Money Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:44:10 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Shine on mixed feelings One week last summer - a perfect piece for daydreaming. It's about feeling happy and content and being where you want to be. I love it. Still waiting for the bear, though. This place - has a country sound to me that I can't really reconcile with the picture of British Columbia in my mind. I would imagine something more Griegian :-) Still not sure whether I like it or not. If I had a heart - I like the way Joni sings this song but I am not too impressed by the lyrics. The lines "too many people now, too little land " have already been discussed. Even though I do agree with Kate that Joni is impressionistic rather than realistic the lines still sound superficial to me, and what's more and worse, they could lead some people to the conclusion that reducing earth's population would be the answer to our problems. It gives me flashes of a certain A Hitler's cry for Lebensraum. Of course Joni did not intend this but it's there. If only she had complicated things a little by saying something about the distribution of resources at least. So, this song makes me feel uncomfortable in other ways than Joni probably imagined any listener would. Hana - If there had been a different melody, this would have been a great song! But the music sounds so harsh it doesn't really go with the lyrics. Sorry, they can't save the song. Bad dreams - too much preaching and fingerpointing for my taste but good music. I am not too fond of the idea of an Eden lost and the thought that we would have been better off without a "sense of self and other". Would our lives have any point in a state like that? BYT - could have done without. Night of the Iguana - now, there is the Joni that I know and love! Here she tells a story of a man torn between rational thinking and dark desire with a melody that fits the lyrics perfectly. And she doesn't moralize or take sides. I love this song! It doesn't really fit with the theme of Shine, though - or does it? Reminds me of songs like Harry's house, Shades of Scarlet, The Priest. Strong and Wrong - there have been discussions of her borrowing from Dylan for This place but what about the line "to hear a robin sing"? Compare that with Dylan's If not for you and the line "couldn't hear a robin sing". I quite like Strong and Wrong even though the lyrics aren't that great. Shine - yes! This is a song about acceptance and hope against hope, and it has a melody that conveys the mood. Definitely a song I will play often. If - was my immediate favourite and still is, along with Night of the Iguana. I must admit though that I do not like all the changes she made, like "not make intellect your game" and "cause you've got the fight etc". But I can live with that. The song has substance; the music underlines it as does Joni's singing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:01:49 -0700 From: "William Elliott" Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs -------------- Original message from Bob.Muller@Fluor.com: - -------------- > > sales as most people would sooner listen to topics of love than to the > dire state of the orb.> > > That doesn't make much sense to me. I've NEVER bought an album based on > what topic a songwriter was singing about. . . . Love trumps the apocalypse. When JM releases an album, you, I ,and virtually everyone on this list is guaranteed to buy it. However, casual listeners are more influenced by reviews, word of mouth, etc. Generally speaking, popular music is noted more for covering topics of romantic love than it is environmental or societal concerns, although there are exceptions to this, as Big Yellow Taxi proves. Nevertheless, if you hear JM on the radio, you are still more likely to hear Help Me or even My Secret Place than you are No Apologies or Three Great Stimulants. Record companies are more likely to embrace and promote a collection of love songs than they are songs addressing social ills and this impacts the bottom line: Wild Things Run Fast (Billboard #25), Chalk Mark (#45), and Night Ride Home (#41) all outsold Dog Eat Dog (#63) . Start providing for your family by becoming a paralegal. Click Now.

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Unlimited Email Storage – POP3 – Calendar – SMS – Translator – Much More! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:46:04 -0400 From: "starvingartist" Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs William Burnworth wrote: >"She could put out an album of herself farting in a bathtub and I would >love >it." "William Elliott" wrote: > Love trumps the apocalypse. Farting in the bathtub trumps all, I imagine even MTV would cover it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 15:52:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Shiny Love Songs I don't think you have any real data to back that up, it sounds like something you IMAGINE to be true. And as Rusty has stated earlier today, Shine is Joni's highest-charting album in 30 years, so that pretty much disproves your theory anyway as the reviews all seem to be highlighting the political nature of the album. Again, there's absolutely no way to tie these numbers to the lyrical content of the album, there are other factors in how it was marketed. I think Joni has been pretty emphatic in stating that Geffen didn't do a good job of promoting her work for them. You could make the case that CMIARS was just as politically charged as DED anyway. It is an interesting discussion and I thank you for it. And whether or not you're delighted or disappointed, how cool is it that we have a NEW JONI ALBUM to talk about? Very cool, I think. Bob NP: Counting Crows, "Miami" - --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:12:08 -0700 (PDT) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: Re: Night of the Iguana Laura you make me blush! I love you!... As far as night of the iguana..The movie is based on a play by Tennesee Williams and the song most certainly has been "inspired" by it..I am a huge Williams and apparently so is Joan..She mentioned Blanche Dubois in Sunny Sunday and now a whole song re: mr williams.. You know what they say about great minds. lol.. Sending much love to Arkansas(go Hogs) xoxo Kev LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: My sweetie pie wrote: Shine is a TRIUMPH! I really want to write a full length "review" but I threw my back out and it's kinda hard to sit here and type but rest assured it's a comin Hi Kev, I hope you feel better soon. I know the pain a back can give you. I'm looking forward to your review of Shine. Yes, we are very blessed to have it. I was thinking this when I was listening to Shine and driving yesterday. I was thinking how Joni's music and song has given me so much life. So has her discussion list. I love Night of the Iguana. I was listening to it over and over again yesterday trying to get the story more and more. I didn't know there was a movie by the same title. Does it have to do with Joni's song? Love, Laura ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com - --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: M\Richard's weird vanity offering Well, lots of women stop counting at 29...it worked for me, and I appreciate the upload. Nice job. Bob NP: Iris Koch, "Marcie" - --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:02:14 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Joni Mitchell: Still Smoking (interview) Interesting interview published in today's London Telegraph, available in the jmdl library: http://jmdl.com/library/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:12:50 -0500 From: mia _ Subject: re: M\Richard's weird vanity offering Richard, that was beautiful! I've been playing this song a lot lately. And I bet my vocals waver more than yours do. Were you playing in standard tuning? You should post those chords to the guitar database. Mia (gawd, I hate this new hotmail format - why change a good thing?) <> _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:30:52 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: M\Richard's weird vanity offering Thank you, Mia. (and thanks, Bob)--or my self from 32 years ago thanks you! Yes, it's standard tuning. I still play the song from time to time, so I'm sure I can write down the chords. I play it in E (capoed up I think). It's the one song from Clouds that stuck with me in my repertoire over the years--that 1975 version clearly owes something to Bonnie Raitt, as well. Lately I've trotted out a slide guitar version of "Night in the City" that seems to be working out. I have a regular non-threatening gig at Sugar Magnolia Bakery, where I can just try stuff out--sometimes with a couple of friends, sometimes solo. Richard - -----Original Message----- From: mia _ [mailto:hvnphun16@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 9:13 PM To: rflynn@frontiernet.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: re: M\Richard's weird vanity offering Richard, that was beautiful! I've been playing this song a lot lately. And I bet my vocals waver more than yours do. Were you playing in standard tuning? You should post those chords to the guitar database. Mia (gawd, I hate this new hotmail format - why change a good thing?) <> _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 18:33:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: The first Shine cover (sort of) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMT6g06mSFw This guy's done quite a few Joni covers on YouTube, I think Danilo still has him beat though. Bob NP: Josh Schurr, "Bad Dreams Are Good" - --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:44:11 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: Coming Soon - FREE Joni Mitchell iTune CARD - Night of the Iguana @Starbucks Heads Up! It's FREE. Just go into Starbucks every day and ask for the Song of the Day card from October 2 to November 7. No Purchase Necessary. You won't get to pick the song tho. But 2 of those days will be Joni Mitchell songs. Already released was a Bob Dylan tune as well as KT Tunstall today. A friendly Starbucks employes I was talking with about Joni went in the back and brought out a Joni Mitchell Song of the Day card and gave it to me (plastic.....nice keeper!). It has a pic of Joni on the bottom right. He told me there will be 2 different Joni Song of the Day cards but couldn't tell me when her different "days" were. Just have to go in every day and see what the song of the day is. The card he gave me is for the song, Night of the Iguana. Each card has a download Code # . The code expires 12/31/07. Offer available to US persons age 13 or older. Limit one card per person, per day in PARTICIPATING US Starbucks stores. See a picture here: http://www.starbucks.com/ or here http://www.hearmusic.com/#STARBUCKS_|_ITUNES/SONG_OF_THE_DAY Joni can't deny technology any longer....she's part of the latest. Enjoy! Laura "According to an Associated Press report, Starbucks coffee shops will introduce an upcoming service that will allow users of Apple's iPhone, the new iPod Touch, or a laptop with iTunes software to download songs that they hear playing in Starbucks shops. When a user wanders into range, the device will display a Starbucks icon. Starbucks shops will give away free "song of the day" cards from October 2 to November 7, to the tune of around 1.5 million such cards each day. Each card is good for a song at Apple's iTunes online music store. The catch is that you don't get to choose the song. The music will come from 37 featured artists, including Bob Dylan, Dave Matthews, Annie Lennox, Paul McCartney, and others." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 21:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Re: The first Shine cover (sort of) Very, very nicely done. Thanks to the Muller Detective Agency! Bob Muller wrote: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMT6g06mSFw > > This guy's done quite a few Joni covers on YouTube, I think Danilo still > has him beat though. > > Bob > > NP: Josh Schurr, "Bad Dreams Are Good" > > > --------------------------------- > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! > Games. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:49:01 -0500 From: mia _ Subject: Shine Shine forced me to step in to Starbucks for the very first time ever, in fact about four times last week, waiting for the cd to arrive. I kept getting a different story every time I walked in the joint. ("Who?," "We don't know anything about it," "I saw the box here 2 days ago," etc...) Oh well, I figure if they are supporting Joni, I may as well support them for supporting Joni. But no coffee for me. Shine has definitely soaked into my blood. The best songs, imo, are If I had a Heart, Bad Dreams, Shine, and If. These all sound timeless to me. I've been waking up in the morning with If I had a Heart stuck as an earworm. And I especially love the passage where she sings, "There's too many people now..." - the lyrics may not be strong there, but I love the sweet little piano parts and the synth flute parts. The music of Shine is very dreamy, Joni's voice is so full of heart, and If makes me want to rock to the beat or crunch my toes (instead of tap my toes ) to the beat (does anyone else ever do that?) And I love the new version of Big Yellow Taxi! Very hip! Not sure yet about Hana or Strong and Wrong, but Night of the Iguana kinda grates on my nerves. I'm not sure why. I think it sounds dated or generic or something, reminiscent of something from CSNY's American Dream album maybe or that era? I dunno. The music of This Place kinda reminds me of Ray's Dad's Cadillac ("...last night we had.."). I realize the lyrics are not the cleverly crafted lyrics of days gone by, but I think Joni is speaking from her "I am a grandmother now" voice and her concern to those who will inherit this world. And she always speaks from her heart which makes this a good album imo. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 19:22:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Shine debuts in Billboard top 15! Shine sold 40,000 copies at Billbaord's #14 (per Entertainment Weekly). I've seen other reports that place Shine at #13. Joni's highest charting debut since Hejira! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:46:13 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: A Black Mansiere Thanks, Richard Flynn, for sending us your rendition of That Song About the Midway. What a precious artifact, and it's lovely, wavering vocals and all. But for some reason, after all these years, I heard the lyrics as "I stood out like a ruby on a black mansiere." Seinfeld fans will recognize the reference; a mansiere is a brassiere for a man. So, Joni was alluding to Shakespeare; I hear Seinfeld and collapse into giggles. I'm truly sorry. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:52:34 -0600 From: est86mlm@ameritech.net Subject: WIRED interview - Herbie Hancock talks Joni Go to: http://blog.wired.com/music/2007/10/herbie-hancock-.html Extended Interview with Herbie Hancock with Joni content Also on the site: Stream two tracks from the album : "Court and Spark" (featuring Norah Jones) "Both Sides Now" Laura " Wired News: This latest album is comprised of Joni Mitchell songs and her influences. Are there any tales from the studio you can tell us about? HH: Joni, she's a poet. And her songs really emanate fresh from the words, you know -- that's the core place that she comes from. I knew I'd have to have the lyrics be the driving force for my record too. So we spent a lot of time discussing the words to Joni's songs. We even went so far as to -- and this was my idea -- give the lyrics of the songs to all the musicians and sit with them in the engineering booth before we'd record something, to discuss the lyrics and the environment that the lyrics were talking about. In a lot of cases, of her words are descriptive of a particular place where some activity was taking place, and even certain characters. We'd discuss that, and get almost a visual idea of what the lyrics were about. If anything, it was more like the way you'd approach doing a soundtrack, kind of a cinematic approach. WN: So you'd come up with some kind of vision and then the music came right out of that -- that's a cool technique. HH: Well that's the way I've been doing all my records for the past ten years now. This is something I learned in this latter part of my life that I really felt was not only appropriate, but a more substantial place to come from. And you think about the direction, think about vision for the record. And because of that, it's allowed me the opportunity to have every record be a new experience for me, and not just be a reaction to something I did before, or something someone else did before. So even though we were doing the music of Joni Mitchell, we purposefully set out not to do it the way she did it. Because she's not the one recording it this time, it's me................................................................." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:31:05 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: A Black Mansiere - -------------- Original message from Deb Messling : -------------- > Thanks, Richard Flynn, for sending us your rendition of That Song > About the Midway. What a precious artifact, and it's lovely, > wavering vocals and all. But for some reason, after all these years, > I heard the lyrics as "I stood out like a ruby on a black > mansiere." Seinfeld fans will recognize the reference; a mansiere is > a brassiere for a man. So, Joni was alluding to Shakespeare; I hear > Seinfeld and collapse into giggles. I'm truly sorry. The Seinfield reference cracked me up. You probably know this but the Shakespeare line is actually something " a ruby in an Ethiope's ear," and Romeo says it to describe Juliet's beauty at the Capulet banquet where they meet. I was so captivated when I first heard the JM song and that line. (I didn't look the Shakespeare line up, so I'm not sure it's exact, but pretty close. Another reason I admire JM's lyrics is because of the allusions--more depths to reach as one listens and learns.) Aleda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 23:36:06 -0400 From: "Barbara Stewart" Subject: Albuquerque web-radio broadcast Did ANYONE hear this fabulous 2 hour broadcast at 3:30 this afternoon? (Wed) It was the finest career retrospective on Joni I've ever heard. Inspiring and revelatory. Some interview clips from Joni very early in her performance career, wonderful musical interstitials. Better yet, did anyone capture it on recording? Or know how to buy it from Public Radio International? I would love to listen to it again. B from : Barbara L.Stewart, MLS Library - Sesame Workshop 1 Lincoln Plaza, 4th fl, NYC, NY 10023 USA tel: 212-875-6393 fax: 212-875-7309 barbara.stewart@sesameworkshop.org "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about the things that matter." - ML King ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 20:53:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Subject: Joni in Vanity Fair Has anyone posted this? Joni (smoking in bed, with Coco), Judy, Joan and many others are featured in the November Vanity Fair, in a "folk music portfolio" feature by Annie Leibovitz. A video about the making of the feature is here: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/video/2007/folkportfolio_video200711 Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 00:12:07 -0700 From: JILL A HAAS Subject: The Emergence of Joni Mitchell Barbara, My thoughts exactly... I just got finished listening and I am still ~~swooning~~ it was so well done. Barbara Stewart wrote: "Did ANYONE hear this fabulous 2 hour broadcast at 3:30 this afternoon? (Wed) It was the finest career retrospective on Joni I've ever heard. Inspiring and revelatory. Some interview clips from Joni very early in her performance career, wonderful musical interstitials. Better yet, did anyone capture it on recording? Or know how to buy it from Public Radio International? I would love to listen to it again." I got this tip from David Sapp: "I just listened to this radio show and it is an enjoyable, informative and respectful 2 hour career retrospective. A real highlight for me were the interviews with several of our list members... totally cool. It is available at http://www.coolstreams.org" And from Bob Muller, the link http://www.paulingles.com/mitchell.html Paul Ingles is the guy that produced it. Those of you at Jonifest 2007 may remember him. Great thanks to him, along with Ashara, Les and Randal for making this a mesmerizing 2 hours of Joni. All of my favorite songs and albums were well represented, except Turbulent Indigo. Oh, well. The show was spot on. Especially, thank you Paul Ingles. Beautiful work. Jill Haas from Seattle. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #313 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)