From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #267 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, September 1 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 267 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Harry and Joni popularity [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Harry and Joni popularity [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Coupla links ["Russell Laird" ] Re: Harry and Joni popularity [Em ] SV: Harry and Joni popularity ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: SV: Harry and Joni popularity [Em ] SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity [Em ] Subject: Re: Harry and Joni popularity ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE : Joni on the radio [Joseph Palis ] Re: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity ["anon anon" ] CSNY&J - Wolfgang's Vault this week... ["P. Henry" ] joni mention in cbc article about robert bateman art show [Mags Subject: Re: Harry and Joni popularity Hi Dave. I love Harry's House and can relate to it from an Australian point of view too. It is the sad story of a mundane suburban life and the restlessness and imprisonment people feel in that environment (Australia is the most urbanised country in the world). Los Angeles fits the image, but I always thought the setting was New York from the lines, "A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roof like a dragonfly on a tomb" and "People thirty storeys down look like coloured currents in the street" and the mention of Bloomingdales. Listening to it again, I realise, Harry is in New York on business. It's threads like these that encourage me to listen to Joni's lyrics more closely. Thanks for that. BTW Are there Bloomingdale's stores anywhere outside of NYC? Mark in the urban sprawl of Sydney where there are a million Harrys. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:34:49 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Harry and Joni popularity >I think everything you write is dead-on, but I also sense empathy from Mitchell for Harry, and also have always felt a small and ineffable sense of how he could be attractive. Perhaps because I've known men, especially back when I heard this song for the first time, when it came out, who were in some ways like Harry, and felt trapped in the lives they had in some ways created but in other ways were just stuck in. I feel like I know Harry, and while I completely feel in the marrow of my bones the singer's telling him just what he can do with his take-home pay, I also feel his sadness. This is, IMO, one of the most brilliant songs of the entire Mitchell ouevre. - - --AJ< How eloquent you are, AJ. I never really looked at the song that way but in some small part of my mind, I also had some sympathy for Harry. I have always believed there is a reason why everybody does what they do. Many times out of insecurity. I don't believe in maliciousness or evil. Harry is cheating on his spouse because he feels trapped. He just can't find a better way to deal with it. My 2c. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:04:38 -0500 From: "Russell Laird" Subject: Re: Coupla links Thanks, Bob. This guy on youtube is plenty good ... reminds me of Kelly Joe Phelps. Russell NP: see the Bob-provided link below On 8/30/07, Bob Muller wrote: > > ... Secondly, check out this Delta Blues-ish take on This Flight Tonight...it > ain't Joni, and it ain't Nazareth. I think it's pretty killer. Maybe it > derivates too much from the original for Randy's tastes: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTAtaNKFOVY > > Bob > > NP: see above ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:09:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Harry and Joni popularity - --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Harry is cheating on his spouse because he > feels trapped. He just can't find a better way to deal with it. he's cheating on his spouse? I thought those lines (centerpiece, etc) were referring to his wife, or the image from long ago of her that he retains? I can't believe I actually fell asleep thinking about this last night. Richard had mentioned feeling something other than contempt for Harry. I, for one, don't feel contempt, but just a great general disinterest. Why pay attention to a guy like that? Makes me wonder what the age would have been of "Harry". Or what would his age be now? My hunch is he's slightly pre-baby boomer. Young enough to have still been handsome back in the 70's. But I'm thinking he's like my parents' age. Or of an age to be the parent of the people who populate the town of AGRESTIC in the show WEEDS. It just never occured to me to pay attention to the psychology of someone's father. (altho that does tie into "American Beauty" because the one little girl obviously DID have a great interest in someone's father) But recently I did read a book that delved into a man who, on the surface may have seemed Harry-like. That was the main character in the book "American Pastoral" by Philip Roth. Killer, just killer. I think Joni maybe knew someone, or even just saw someone like this, and found him not unattractive. Therefore was tempted to sketch the scenario. I need to go listen to it again. Try and get some colors to go with the words. sheesh, why am I even paying attention to this??? you guys drew me in with this convo for some reason. Sorry if I seem "out there" with these comments. Feel free to ignore! :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:40:44 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Harry and Joni popularity HI Em, if you look around you you will discover plenty of Harrys in tailormade suits no older than 35, talking important business over their cellphones on trains, buses, subways, in lines of any kind etc. Are you young enough to have a father that age? When Joni released THSL she was in her thirties and probably saw and maybe knew lots of Harrys her age. Marion, non-agist - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Em Skickat: den 31 augusti 2007 13:10 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: Harry and Joni popularity - --- Mark-Leon Thorne wrote: > Harry is cheating on his spouse because he > feels trapped. He just can't find a better way to deal with it. he's cheating on his spouse? I thought those lines (centerpiece, etc) were referring to his wife, or the image from long ago of her that he retains? I can't believe I actually fell asleep thinking about this last night. Richard had mentioned feeling something other than contempt for Harry. I, for one, don't feel contempt, but just a great general disinterest. Why pay attention to a guy like that? Makes me wonder what the age would have been of "Harry". Or what would his age be now? My hunch is he's slightly pre-baby boomer. Young enough to have still been handsome back in the 70's. But I'm thinking he's like my parents' age. Or of an age to be the parent of the people who populate the town of AGRESTIC in the show WEEDS. It just never occured to me to pay attention to the psychology of someone's father. (altho that does tie into "American Beauty" because the one little girl obviously DID have a great interest in someone's father) But recently I did read a book that delved into a man who, on the surface may have seemed Harry-like. That was the main character in the book "American Pastoral" by Philip Roth. Killer, just killer. I think Joni maybe knew someone, or even just saw someone like this, and found him not unattractive. Therefore was tempted to sketch the scenario. I need to go listen to it again. Try and get some colors to go with the words. sheesh, why am I even paying attention to this??? you guys drew me in with this convo for some reason. Sorry if I seem "out there" with these comments. Feel free to ignore! :) Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:03:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: SV: Harry and Joni popularity Hi Marion, not sure about the age thing. Depends on what age Harry would have been. My mother, for example is now 70 years old. ( I am 48) So in 1975 she would have been, 39? is my math off, lol? Dad is one year older. I feel that the post-80's (post Reagan era) Harry's are more self-centered (which may be a good thing). The "lawyers in love" generation and later. The BMW guys. The 80's cocaine gang. Business was perhaps being conducted the same way, but maybe to a different end. Many yuppy families at this point had BOTH parents working. I feel like it became different after a while. Harry was (possibly) the tail end of the 50's corporate "work-a-daddy". < wrote: > HI Em, > if you look around you you will discover plenty of Harrys in > tailormade > suits no older than 35, talking important business over their > cellphones on > trains, buses, subways, in lines of any kind etc. Are you young > enough to > have a father that age? > When Joni released THSL she was in her thirties and probably saw and > maybe > knew lots of Harrys her age. > Marion, non-agist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:51:59 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity Hi again, Em, since you wrote that it never occurred to you to pay attention to the psychology of somebody's father (after speculating about what age Harry would have been) I got the impression that you are not interested in anybody older than your own generation. I find that a little ageist, yes. I'd be happy to be wrong, and in that case, forgive me. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: Em [mailto:emzdogz@yahoo.com] Skickat: den 31 augusti 2007 15:03 Till: Marion Leffler; joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: SV: Harry and Joni popularity Hi Marion, not sure about the age thing. Depends on what age Harry would have been. My mother, for example is now 70 years old. ( I am 48) So in 1975 she would have been, 39? is my math off, lol? Dad is one year older. I feel that the post-80's (post Reagan era) Harry's are more self-centered (which may be a good thing). The "lawyers in love" generation and later. The BMW guys. The 80's cocaine gang. Business was perhaps being conducted the same way, but maybe to a different end. Many yuppy families at this point had BOTH parents working. I feel like it became different after a while. Harry was (possibly) the tail end of the 50's corporate "work-a-daddy". < wrote: > HI Em, > if you look around you you will discover plenty of Harrys in > tailormade > suits no older than 35, talking important business over their > cellphones on > trains, buses, subways, in lines of any kind etc. Are you young > enough to > have a father that age? > When Joni released THSL she was in her thirties and probably saw and > maybe > knew lots of Harrys her age. > Marion, non-agist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 06:01:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Harry and Joni popularity http://www1.bloomingdales.com/store/index.ognc Bob NP: Nasty P, "50 and Game vs. Joni Mitchell - Joni Mitchell's On Top" - --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:07:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity I'd be interested in the psychology of someone's father if he were Woody Guthrie! But not Harry! sorry. (well no, actually I'm NOT sorry dammit) BTW, practically my entire record/CD collection is made up of work from people well older than myself. For example, Joni Mitchell! So maybe I am guilty of some kind of "ism", but I don't think its age-ism, per se. I am very prejudiced against the boring. Em - --- Marion Leffler wrote: > Hi again, Em, > since you wrote that it never occurred to you to pay attention to the > psychology of somebody's father (after speculating about what age > Harry > would have been) I got the impression that you are not interested in > anybody > older than your own generation. I find that a little ageist, yes. I'd > be > happy to be wrong, and in that case, forgive me. > Marion > > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Fren: Em [mailto:emzdogz@yahoo.com] > Skickat: den 31 augusti 2007 15:03 > Till: Marion Leffler; joni@smoe.org > Dmne: Re: SV: Harry and Joni popularity > > Hi Marion, not sure about the age thing. Depends on what age Harry > would have been. My mother, for example is now 70 years old. ( I am > 48) > So in 1975 she would have been, 39? is my math off, lol? Dad is one > year older. > > I feel that the post-80's (post Reagan era) Harry's are more > self-centered (which may be a good thing). The "lawyers in love" > generation and later. The BMW guys. The 80's cocaine gang. Business > was > perhaps being conducted the same way, but maybe to a different end. > Many yuppy families at this point had BOTH parents working. > > I feel like it became different after a while. > Harry was (possibly) the tail end of the 50's corporate > "work-a-daddy". > < > I could be wrong. > Did you consider what I said to be "agist" in some way? My only > interest in that was to see where it fell in the scope of the 20th > century. That century went by so fast. For me it sometimes helps to > set > things against a back drop of time. Just to gain that perspective. > :) > Em > > --- Marion Leffler wrote: > > > HI Em, > > if you look around you you will discover plenty of Harrys in > > tailormade > > suits no older than 35, talking important business over their > > cellphones on > > trains, buses, subways, in lines of any kind etc. Are you young > > enough to > > have a father that age? > > When Joni released THSL she was in her thirties and probably saw > and > > maybe > > knew lots of Harrys her age. > > Marion, non-agist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:59:20 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: Re: Harry and Joni popularity Singer-songwriter Kate Bennett ( www.katebennett.com ) wrote, >Maybe someone has already mentioned this but to me it seems like Harry is the same guy who she is writing about in The Arrangement.> Yeah, I hear that too. Sad, preoccupied dreamer, alone-in-a-crowd. Hey, she was writing about me. heh heh. Joni wrote >>You could have been more than a name on the door on the thirty-third floor in the air; more than a consumer lying in some room trying to die; more than a credit card, swimming pool in the backyard>> Then... >>He opens up his suitcase In the continental suite And people twenty stories down Look like colored currents in the street>> "Swimming pool in the backyard" is also like the Los Angeles house shown on the back cover of "The Hissing Of Summer Lawns" too. There's a bit of Joni in every character, eh? Jim L. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:58:45 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni's part of a video collection, next month Les put up a paragraph about a video collection from the Johnny Cash show, due in stores next month. http://www.jonimitchell.com/news/index.cfm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:11:26 -0400 From: Stewart.Simon@sunlife.com Subject: [none] Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:21:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Harry and Joni popularity Wondering what passion caused Joni to write this. Or was it just an exercize in description? ============================================================================== Hi Em, I think Centerpiece is more that an excercise in description. And as far as the passion was behind it - I think she has had it for quite awhile and expressed it more than once. .Perhaps its just that Joni has a really bleak picture of modern business life and its destructive effect on personal relationships. I mean how different is Harry from Richard who got married to a figure skater and bought her a dishwasher and a coffee percolator but drinks at home now at night with the TV on and all the house lights left up bright? Or as Bob mentioned, the subject of the Arrangement, who could have been more than a name on the door on the 33rd floor, more than a credit card -swimming pool in the backyard ?? - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:09:18 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity I think the woman Joni is talking about in the song (Harry's wife) made Harry the way he is. I think she helped shape him in the beginning by inspiring some passion in him and now she helped to "drain" him. Maybe it is just my cynicism as far as marriage goes, but I think the portrayal of their "dead" marriage is an accurate one for a good number of marriages. I think alot of people stay together for the wrong reasons--convenience, money, etc etc. Love dies out. Now I don't mean to offend any of you because there are those lucky ones who continually have a happy marriage. Good for you then but I find very few of those in my own experiences. But even as their marriage in the song is, someone commented that Harry cheats on his wife because of the wife and their problems. No matter how hard it is, I don't think you should ever, ever, ever cheat on your spouse/significant other let alone blame the other person for your own infidelity. Be a man (or a woman) and end it before anything happens. There is no excuse for cheating. I've seen numerous talk shows where the one spouse tells the other spouse he/she wasn't there for him and that was the reason for looking elsewhere. Not good enough if you ask me. If things are right, end it. But I don't feel hatred for Harry or even Harry's wife. I just find it to be a very interesting Psychological profile of the two. The again, I don't like either of the two as well. I don't feel sympathy for Harry but I don't feel disgust for him either. I don't sympathize but I can understand and that is key. Without question, this song is one of Joni's best....and.....one of the best songs ever written....and recorded.....in music history. I love it. - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:21:31 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity - -------------- Original message from Motitan@aol.com: -------------- > But even as their marriage in the song is, someone commented that Harry > cheats on his wife because of the wife and their problems. No matter how > hard it is, I don't think you should ever, ever, ever cheat on your > spouse/significant other let alone blame the other person for your own > infidelity. Be a > man (or a woman) and end it before anything happens. There is no excuse for > cheating. I've seen numerous talk shows where the one spouse tells the other > spouse he/she wasn't there for him and that was the reason for looking > elsewhere. Not good enough if you ask me. If things are right, end it. > But I don't feel hatred for Harry or even Harry's wife. I just find it > to be a very interesting Psychological profile of the two. The again, I > don't like either of the two as well. I don't feel sympathy for Harry but I > don't feel disgust for him either. I don't sympathize but I can understand and > that is key. Without question, this song is one of Joni's best....and.....one > of the best songs ever written....and recorded.....in music history. I love Great fiction is full of flawed characters; in that way it reflects life, where most of us have our good qualities and our flaws. Most songs do not capture a character with the complexity with which JM presents Harry (I mean if you compare Harry to The Arrangement [and I love The Arrangement], you can easily see her growth, both as a musician and as a lyricist. You just don't get characters presented as fully and humanly in popular music as Harry. Much art is mimetic and seeks to reflect life, as it is. That's (one of the ways) how I see Harry's House. In a perfect world, people wouldn't cheat; fall out of love; stay in jobs that aren't fulfilling; have an inner life that is largely empty except for wistfulness for the past. But this isn't a perfect world. All the Harrys people have mentioned--yuppies; guys on subways; guys in BMWs; the doctor who lives across the street; etc, etc, ad infinitum--are not merely what they seem. They have histories, and dreams that have not come true, and regrets, and sometimes great sadness (which I feel in Harry). Of course much of the greatness of Harry's House is the combination of lyric and music, which become, together, not simply two great things, but a third greater thing achieved because of their being yoked together. HOSL is, hands down, my favorite Mitchell album, even though I love songs on other albums perhaps more than any one song on HOSL. But Harry's House had been in my top five JM songs since I first heard it, back in the 1970s when the album came out, and I listened to it constantly in my dorm room and reflected on the impossible relationship I was then in. And the song holds up. Even now, Harry doesn't come off to me as one of those disaffected surburban husbands portrayed in so many films and TV shows in the late 60s and the 1970s. There's a deep sadness to him, which, it seems to me, JM conveys unmistably although implicitly. - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:56:07 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Joni on the radio I was listening to KPLU a Seattle jazz station the other day and they played Flat Tires from Travelogue... it sounded great. I have heard Joni on jazz radio several times in the past year. It seems as if Joni has finally found her niche on the radio... as I recall about 25 years ago jazz stations would not touch her and the pop stations had given up on her.... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:08:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Joni on the radio Speaking of Joni on the radio, I heard one station play "Furry Sings The Blues" in that unmistakable propulsive driving rhythm that opens the song the other day. I was in a burrito place in Chapel Hill and I thought it odd that they were listening to a different radio as the piped-in music for the whole place considering that they almost always play Mexicali music. But it was a pleasant surprise to hear FSTB and I remarked how good it sounded when the volume is tolerably maxed inside the burrito place that gives it a festive air. Have a great (long) weekend to everyone. Joseph in his carrel in the 6th floor of the library overlooking the bell tower np: distant hum of vehicles - --------------------------------- Ne gardez plus qu'une seule adresse mail ! Copiez vos mails vers Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:32:20 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity >From: Motitan@aol.com >Reply-To: Motitan@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: SV: SV: Harry and Joni popularity >Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:09:18 EDT > No matter how >hard it is, I don't think you should ever, ever, ever cheat on your >spouse/significant other let alone blame the other person for your own >infidelity. Be a >man (or a woman) and end it before anything happens. There is no excuse >for >cheating. In a more black and white, simple world that would be true... but in the complex, real world... it happens... I don't think being so judgemental about it is helpful... people are human... _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Cafi. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_SeptHMtagline1 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 11:34:57 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: CSNY&J - Wolfgang's Vault this week... Joni - backing vocals on "Another Sleep Song" and "Our House" http://concerts.wolfgangsvault.com/ConcertDetail.aspx?id=2301%7C1462&utm_source=NL&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=070829 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:29:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: joni mention in cbc article about robert bateman art show Canadian artist/naturalist/environmentalist Robert Bateman has a show of his works at the McMichael gallery in Kleinberg, Ontario. (north of Toronto). In the CBC write up, there's a Joni mention. here's the clip: Most paintings are more subtle reminders of the need to protect the environment, such as Cardinal Wild Apples, which he says was inspired by Joni Mitchell's words from Big Yellow Taxi: "Put away that DDT now. Give me spots on my apples but leave me the birds and the bees! Please!" here's the link to the full article: http://www.cbc.ca/arts/artdesign/story/2007/08/31/bateman-art.html Mags - --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #267 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)