From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #261 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, August 26 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 261 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #260 [William Waddell ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination [jeannie ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Your top 3 Joni moments [Deb Messling ] RE: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination SJC--dead horse department, or is it banging one's head against a brick wall? :-) [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:34:09 +0000 From: William Waddell Subject: RE: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #260 >>> Shine in Wikipedia, Jerry Notaro quoted: Strange Birds of Appetite Ha ha ha! Isn't that an album by David Letterman? WtS _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live Hotmail http://www.newhotmail.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:34:01 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: pg 21 of Rolling Stone Yet when I met her, when this new work was only a rumour, she did say this was a romantic, slow dancing record... perhaps she was referring to the music part, not the lyrics? >"This record is more about what is affecting the Earth: war, famine, greenhouse gases." [in other words, it's a dance record.RR]< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 01:32:21 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination Does anybody know what the literary critics from Yeats' estate make of Joni's adaptation? Jeanne AJ wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Notaro" > For what it's worth, Joni did approach and receive permission from Yeats' > estate to rework Slouching towards Bethlehem. I think that demonstrates > commendable artistic integrity. > > Jerry I wouldn't argue that she didn't do it with integrity, and that it didn't have great meaning for her. And that she no doubt felt a profound artistic urge to do it. I just think it was a mistake. Does that make sense? It doesn't honor Yeats or Mitchell. - --AJ - --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 14:43:43 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination - -------------- Original message from jeannie : -------------- > Does anybody know what the literary critics from Yeats' estate make of Joni's > adaptation? > > Jeanne > I think that Yeats is in the public domain now. His poems are widely available on the web. The so-called Mickey Mouse Law (which let Disney keep rights to, well, Mickey Mouse for another 50 yrs after the copyright ran out) protected some parts of some literary estates if the heirs were very vigilant and insistent, as Stephen Joyce was (Ulysses and Finnegans Wake, for instance, are still not in the public domain, though Dubliners is), but most of Yeats seems to be available. I'm absolutely Kipling is public doman now (not that that many people would care--sorry; I just think of "If" as a sappy poem). - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:01:52 -0400 From: "James Leahy" Subject: Herbie Digs Joni As far as I know, the first review of River: http://nymag.com/guides/fallpreview/2007/music/36613/ Text follows: Herbie Digs Joni The jazz-pop master reimagines Joni Mitchell. By Martin Johnson As a former protigi of Miles Davis and the composer of classics like "Maiden Voyage" and "Cantaloupe Island," Herbie Hancock has never lacked for jazz cred. He's also demonstrated pretty major prowess in pop, with instrumental hits like 1973's "Chameleon" and 1983's early MTV staple "Rockit." Yet in his more recent work, the 67-year-old pianist has failed to take full advantage of his versatility, veering from jazz to pop and back again with less than stellar results. His pop work has been schlocky and stiff, while his jazz recordings have been uncharacteristically distant and cold. Only when Hancock has merged the styles-his approach on the upcoming River: The Joni Letters-has he found success. At first glance, the current project doesn't look terribly promising. It's basically a Joni Mitchell tribute, of which there've been many. Her songbook has been plundered by just about everybody. But Hancock comes to these songs with uncommon sensitivity and understanding. He and Mitchell, longtime Angelenos, have been friends for decades and have played on each other's recordings. Her multiple talents even trump his. "I've admired Joni for many years for her genius and for her being a Renaissance woman," he says. "Her lyrics, poetry, painting. She even wrote a ballet." As one of his first moves, Hancock sought out Larry Klein, Joni's ex and the producer of nearly half of Mitchell's catalogue. They chose the roster of singers and then worked out a variety of backing groups, often featuring Hancock's fellow Miles alums Wayne Shorter and Dave Holland. Hancock was attracted to the project, in part, by the challenge of making words central. "I'm not accustomed to paying attention to lyrics," he said. "I'm used to harmonies and melodies." He paused and retreated a little. "I can recognize great lyrics when I hear them. But a lot of the time it's like a foreign language that I can't really translate." River succeeds because of the mood. Hancock creates a ruminative core sound; an all-star cast of singers deepens the vibe. Tina Turner, Norah Jones, Corinne Bailey Rae, and Mitchell herself provide vocals. There's even a transcendent reading of Shorter's wistful sixties classic "Nefertiti" and a take of Duke Ellington's "Solitude" woven into the otherwise all-Mitchell program, and they fit perfectly. This isn't the Joni of "Chelsea Morning," bright and spry, but rather Mitchell in a small Dumbo club that requires a password for entry. The recording closes with Leonard Cohen reciting the stanzas to Mitchell's 1975 song "The Jungle Line," accompanied only by Hancock's piano, a spare and dramatic rendition. Hancock came of age when pop and jazz overlapped comfortably, and he's at his best when he shows us how they still can. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 08:08:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination I think by "make of" Jeannie meant "what do they think about it?" (I have no idea), not how much money do they make (as A. J. said, 0). Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:46:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination Only his works before 1923 are in the public domain, and only if you are referring to United States copyright. Joni sells her cd's world wide, and all of his work in Great Britain and the EU are still under copyright. So she did need permission from his estate, and she most certainly could have had to remunerate for the permission. Jerry ajfashion@att.net wrote: > > > -------------- Original message from jeannie > : -------------- > > >> Does anybody know what the literary critics from Yeats' estate make of >> Joni's >> adaptation? >> >> Jeanne >> > > I think that Yeats is in the public domain now. His poems are > widely available on the web. The so-called Mickey Mouse > Law (which let Disney keep rights to, well, Mickey Mouse > for another 50 yrs after the copyright ran out) > protected some parts of some literary estates if the heirs > were very vigilant and insistent, as Stephen Joyce was (Ulysses > and Finnegans Wake, for instance, are still not in the public > domain, though Dubliners is), but most of Yeats seems to > be available. > > I'm absolutely Kipling is public doman now (not that that > many people would care--sorry; I just think of "If" as > a sappy poem). > > --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:35:07 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination - -------------- Original message from jeannie : -------------- Sorry, sorry, sorry for not making myself clear and understood, as usual. :) Yes, I meant maybe reviews on Joni's musical adaptation of STB given by respected literary critics, maybe some staunch Yeats defenders who consider themselves part of his estate just because they love Yeats' works from their soul so much or Professors who teach Yeats' passionate works at Oxford or Cambridge or anywhere? ______________________________________________________________ I'm not a Yeats scholar at all, though I do have a close friend who is (and spends every summer in Ireland). Next time I see him I'll ask. My hunch is most Yeats scholars aren't aware of the Mitchell song, and would probably be, at best, indifferent to it, and more likely see it in the way a couple of us here on the list do. In other words, as a work which diminishes both Mitchell's prodigious genius and Yeats's inestimable genius. By which I mean Mitchell is best when she's doing her own music and lyric, and "Slouching Toward Bethlehem" is a much much more powerful work as a poem than it is as a song, even or especially with the words changed. I guess my main thing is that Yeats's poems have a very distinct and singular music of their own. - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:17:35 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination Sorry, sorry, sorry for not making myself clear and understood, as usual. :) Yes, I meant maybe reviews on Joni's musical adaptation of STB given by respected literary critics, maybe some staunch Yeats defenders who consider themselves part of his estate just because they love Yeats' works from their soul so much or Professors who teach Yeats' passionate works at Oxford or Cambridge or anywhere? Jeannie Michael Flaherty wrote: I think by "make of" Jeannie meant "what do they think about it?" (I have no idea), not how much money do they make (as A. J. said, 0). Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. - --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 16:18:08 +0000 From: ajfashion@att.net Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination Thanks Jerry, for this information. I guess I thought "A Prayer for My Daughter" was written later than it in fact was, since I was surprised to find it online (I plan to teach it this fall). - --AJ - -------------- Original message from "Gerald A. Notaro" : -------------- > Only his works before 1923 are in the public domain, and only if you are > referring to United States copyright. Joni sells her cd's world wide, and > all of his work in Great Britain and the EU are still under copyright. So > she did need permission from his estate, and she most certainly could have > had to remunerate for the permission. > > Jerry > > ajfashion@att.net wrote: > > > > > > -------------- Original message from jeannie > > : -------------- > > > > > >> Does anybody know what the literary critics from Yeats' estate make of > >> Joni's > >> adaptation? > >> > >> Jeanne > >> > > > > I think that Yeats is in the public domain now. His poems are > > widely available on the web. The so-called Mickey Mouse > > Law (which let Disney keep rights to, well, Mickey Mouse > > for another 50 yrs after the copyright ran out) > > protected some parts of some literary estates if the heirs > > were very vigilant and insistent, as Stephen Joyce was (Ulysses > > and Finnegans Wake, for instance, are still not in the public > > domain, though Dubliners is), but most of Yeats seems to > > be available. > > > > I'm absolutely Kipling is public doman now (not that that > > many people would care--sorry; I just think of "If" as > > a sappy poem). > > > > --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 15:20:11 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination SJC--dead horse department, or is it banging one's head against a brick wall? :-) I just finished teaching Yeats this semester: "Prayer" was written in June of 1919, "The Second Coming" in January of the same year. The last 4 lines of "Prayer," How but in custom and in ceremony Are innocence and beauty born? Ceremony's a name for the rich horn, And custom for the spreading laurel tree. Seem to echo the earlier poem ironically: The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Speaking of these Yeats lines, how anyone can think Joni's version is an improvement is beyond me: The ceremony sinks Innocence is drowned In anarchy The best lack conviction Given some time to think And the worst are full of passion Without mercy It doesn't even mean the same thing. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of ajfashion@att.net Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:18 PM To: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Cc: Gerald A. Notaro; jeannie; notaro@stpt.usf.edu; jmdl Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination Thanks Jerry, for this information. I guess I thought "A Prayer for My Daughter" was written later than it in fact was, since I was surprised to find it online (I plan to teach it this fall). - --AJ - -------------- Original message from "Gerald A. Notaro" : -------------- > Only his works before 1923 are in the public domain, and only if you are > referring to United States copyright. Joni sells her cd's world wide, and > all of his work in Great Britain and the EU are still under copyright. So > she did need permission from his estate, and she most certainly could have > had to remunerate for the permission. > > Jerry > > ajfashion@att.net wrote: > > > > > > -------------- Original message from jeannie > > : -------------- > > > > > >> Does anybody know what the literary critics from Yeats' estate make of > >> Joni's > >> adaptation? > >> > >> Jeanne > >> > > > > I think that Yeats is in the public domain now. His poems are > > widely available on the web. The so-called Mickey Mouse > > Law (which let Disney keep rights to, well, Mickey Mouse > > for another 50 yrs after the copyright ran out) > > protected some parts of some literary estates if the heirs > > were very vigilant and insistent, as Stephen Joyce was (Ulysses > > and Finnegans Wake, for instance, are still not in the public > > domain, though Dubliners is), but most of Yeats seems to > > be available. > > > > I'm absolutely Kipling is public doman now (not that that > > many people would care--sorry; I just think of "If" as > > a sappy poem). > > > > --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:40:28 +1000 (ChST) From: "P. Henry" Subject: Auction's end: Joni signed print. VOICES show http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230162138282 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:55:10 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Your top 3 Joni moments I've been ruminating on this one for several days, because how to choose? 1. The first time I heard Joni. I bought "Clouds" on July 19, 1969, because my sister told me to. I put on side 2 first (to hear Both Sides Now), so the first Joni song I ever heard was The Gallery. I was immediately smitten. 2. Hearing "Blue" for the first time. I was in love with Joni the magic princess, and when I heard "Blue" I was bewildered at first. This was such a different sound, so much more modern, so much less "pretty" and precious. I was suspicious of it at first, then grew to love it, and then realized that I was committed to Joni for the long haul,and would trust her to lead me to beauty if I would only give her the chance. 3. Seeing Joni at Forest Hills Tennis Stadium in 1979 - an amazing, transcendent performance. I was in the cheap seats in the company of a girlfriend who didn't much care about Joni, but the brilliance of that performance - Joni and her band - broke through the distractions. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- dlmessling@rcn.com http://www.sensibleshoes.vox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 23:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: RE: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination SJC--dead horse department, or is it banging one's head against a brick wall? :-) Hi Richard! I feel I should call you, "Professor Flynn," and not, "Richard," for your educated and pleasant to read opinion. I got it. You're a fine teacher. Thank you! Jeannie Richard Flynn wrote: I just finished teaching Yeats this semester: "Prayer" was written in June of 1919, "The Second Coming" in January of the same year. The last 4 lines of "Prayer," How but in custom and in ceremony Are innocence and beauty born? Ceremony's a name for the rich horn, And custom for the spreading laurel tree. Seem to echo the earlier poem ironically: The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Speaking of these Yeats lines, how anyone can think Joni's version is an improvement is beyond me: The ceremony sinks Innocence is drowned In anarchy The best lack conviction Given some time to think And the worst are full of passion Without mercy It doesn't even mean the same thing. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of ajfashion@att.net Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:18 PM To: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Cc: Gerald A. Notaro; jeannie; notaro@stpt.usf.edu; jmdl Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination Thanks Jerry, for this information. I guess I thought "A Prayer for My Daughter" was written later than it in fact was, since I was surprised to find it online (I plan to teach it this fall). - --AJ - -------------- Original message from "Gerald A. Notaro" : -------------- > Only his works before 1923 are in the public domain, and only if you are > referring to United States copyright. Joni sells her cd's world wide, and > all of his work in Great Britain and the EU are still under copyright. So > she did need permission from his estate, and she most certainly could have > had to remunerate for the permission. > > Jerry > > ajfashion@att.net wrote: > > > > > > -------------- Original message from jeannie > > : -------------- > > > > > >> Does anybody know what the literary critics from Yeats' estate make of > >> Joni's > >> adaptation? > >> > >> Jeanne > >> > > > > I think that Yeats is in the public domain now. His poems are > > widely available on the web. The so-called Mickey Mouse > > Law (which let Disney keep rights to, well, Mickey Mouse > > for another 50 yrs after the copyright ran out) > > protected some parts of some literary estates if the heirs > > were very vigilant and insistent, as Stephen Joyce was (Ulysses > > and Finnegans Wake, for instance, are still not in the public > > domain, though Dubliners is), but most of Yeats seems to > > be available. > > > > I'm absolutely Kipling is public doman now (not that that > > many people would care--sorry; I just think of "If" as > > a sappy poem). > > > > --AJ - --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #261 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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