From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #258 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, August 23 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 258 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Shine snippets ["vincenzo mancini" ] SV: Shine snippets ["Marion Leffler" ] John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! [waytoblue@comcast.net] Re: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! [Motitan@aol.com] little green encore une fois [Mags ] Adoption ["Marion Leffler" ] SV: SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: Wednesday from Bo [Peep Richman ] SJC Chaka Khan [FMYFL@aol.com] Your top 3 Joni moments [Motitan@aol.com] Shine Samples on Amazon ["Owen Duff" ] 3 Great Joni Stimulants I mean moments [KEVIN DOHENY Subject: Shine snippets Snippet of any (!!!) Shine song at http://www.amazon.com/Shine-Joni-Mitchell/dp/B000UR366S/ref=pd_sim_m_4/105-8921366-2427646?ie=UTF8&qid=1187768653&sr=1-9Enjoy them,Vincenzo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:04:23 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Shine snippets Thanks! I love the instrumental, can't wait to hear it all. The other songs sound good, too, and I think Joni's voice has indeed improved since BSN, she sounds stronger. So much to look forward to! Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr vincenzo mancini Skickat: den 22 augusti 2007 09:55 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Shine snippets Snippet of any (!!!) Shine song at http://www.amazon.com/Shine-Joni-Mitchell/dp/B000UR366S/ref=pd_sim_m_4/105-8 921366-2427646?ie=UTF8&qid=1187768653&sr=1-9Enjoy them,Vincenzo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:31:10 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! Hi all just read a book on the rock history of the 50-70's, written by two music lecturers at Stockholm university. And guess what, a chapter on "folkrock" defines John Lennon (?), Bob Dylan and Paul Simon as the three leading figures of rock/folk carrying on into the 1970's. No mention of Joni at all. Judy Collins, Joan Baez and Buffy Saint Marie get a passing mention as "sweet-voiced girls with a repertoire of Child Ballads and mountain songs"!! And these authors teach music history to university students! I am so mad I could explode! Just had to tell to let off some steam. (The book was first published in 1994 so there is no excuse for omitting Joni and patronising JC, JB and BSM - they had all established their positions long ago). Any words to calm me down would be appreciated. Marion, blue in the face ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:12:59 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Marion Leffler" > Any words to calm me down would be appreciated. "Breath, breath in the air..." (Pink Floyd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:49:18 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! Firstly Marion, it doesn't really matter - so take a good breath and calm down. Secondly, historically most rock writing is done by men so its a male-dominated field. As such, men don't want to admit to the truth that a WOMAN can beat their best, so they'll string up the typical litany of men and either omit the women or mention them as an aside. While I enjoy Rolling Stone magazine, they are notorious for doing this. As for me, I'm comfortable enough with my masculinity that I'm not intimidated by the fact that Joni stands head and shoulders above the guys in the writing department and I have no problem admitting it. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Big Boys" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:03:51 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! Thank you! Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: waytoblue@comcast.net [mailto:waytoblue@comcast.net] Skickat: den 22 augusti 2007 15:13 Till: Marion Leffler; joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Marion Leffler" > Any words to calm me down would be appreciated. "Breath, breath in the air..." (Pink Floyd) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:09:26 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! Hi Bob, thank you for responding! I see your point and I know this, of course, still it upsets me every time. I couldnt let go so I emailed one of the authors asking for an explanation. And he replied promptly, saying they did not include Joni because she was not typical of the era they wrote about, the folkrock of the 60's! Also, she left the rock scene and went on to other genres so they didn't feel obliged to include her in the book at all. But, he says, "to show you we don't have anything against her I can tell you that my co-writer wrote the speech for Joni when she received the Polar Award". Yes, figures! The speech defined her as "one of the most important female singer/songwriters", a praise Joni would rather be without, as we all know. Now I will let go and listen to Joni instead. I think FTR will be appropriate. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Skickat: den 22 augusti 2007 15:49 Till: Marion Leffler Kopia: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! Firstly Marion, it doesn't really matter - so take a good breath and calm down. Secondly, historically most rock writing is done by men so its a male-dominated field. As such, men don't want to admit to the truth that a WOMAN can beat their best, so they'll string up the typical litany of men and either omit the women or mention them as an aside. While I enjoy Rolling Stone magazine, they are notorious for doing this. As for me, I'm comfortable enough with my masculinity that I'm not intimidated by the fact that Joni stands head and shoulders above the guys in the writing department and I have no problem admitting it. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "Big Boys" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:39:58 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: all this talk of green Arkay, Mama: Congratulations! ***** i figure its time for this lurker to announce the birth of her newest lurkette baby- Freya Green Adkisson was born on june 9th, 2007 her middle name is in honor of the joni mitchell song of course... (and let me tell you, i love hearing my seven and five year old daughters sing little green to their new baby sister...) ***** What a dear image! I immediately see this painting http://www.britannica.com/eb/art/print?id=56457&articleTypeId=31 and can picture your little girls peering into the bassinette with you, singing Little Green. "Don't you know that love can be so sweet..." Congratulations to all of you, and best wishes as the seasons, they go round and round. Have you touched the back of her ears? When my son was born many dim years ago, some lady in my old workplace touched the back of his ears and said that there is nothing softer in the world. It seems like we haven't had a new Joni baby in a while, n'est-ce pas? Azeem's Amelia, and granddaddy (said with affection and respect) David Lahm's new grandbaby....hope I didn't miss anyone. This song just popped into my head. My Dad used to sing it to me all the time. Now I'm singing it for your little girls, Arkay. Thank heaven for little girls for little girls get bigger every day! Thank heaven for little girls they grow up in the most delightful way! Those little eyes so helpless and appealing one day will flash and send you crashin' thru the ceilin' Thank heaven for little girls thank heaven for them all, no matter where no matter who for without them, what would little boys do? Thank heaven... thank heaven... Thank heaven for little girls! Love, Patti P. Another Mother (for Peace), who only has brothers and sons (not that I would trade them, of course!) _________________________________________________________________ Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:06:56 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! In a message dated 8/22/2007 11:21:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marionleffler@telia.com writes: And he replied promptly, saying they did not include Joni because she was not typical of the era they wrote about, the folkrock of the 60's! Also, she left the rock scene and went on to other - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well that's kind of funny. I can understand if the writer said he has nothing against Joni but John Lennon wasn't part of the folk scene. He was a writer, a brilliant one at that, but certainly never a folk artist. He was rock through and through. And as far as Dylan goes, I thought he too when into other genres? I can't say anything for Simon though.... - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:20:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: little green encore une fois i recently posted a little bit about the adoption process as per Ontario with a view to giving insight into what Joni probably faced within the realm of her decision to surrender her baby girl to adoption. . Im wondering if knowing this information helped anyone to understand some of what Joni was experiencing? (I didnt hear a word back, so this is why I ask). I dont mean to sound like I know exactly what Joni went through, however, Ive done a lot of reasearch into the adoption laws/situation, and have a thorough understanding. Kilauren's adoptive parents, the Gibbs, would not have known what their baby's birth name was. They would have been told generalities only, nothing specific. If the baby girl happened to be called Kelly, that would have been a wonderful synchronisitic set of circumstances. The rules were very strict. Closed records were set in place to protect the privacy of every one concerned. There wasnt a whole lot of choice in the matter, not really. And Joni would haved signed papers that said specifically that she was no longer the mother. Strange but true. A sad element in this scenario is that Joni, like many women in her situation, could not tell their parents. The pregnancy and birth of a child became a secret, and for some, was never to be disclosed to family and friends. As amazing as that sounds, it's true. I do believe, from this side now, that the powers that be maintained that closed records would provide a smooth transition for the new family, allowing the young unwed Mum to truly get on with her life, too. I want to believe it was all done with the very best intentions; that no one knew what fallout/consequences would rise up years later. Then and now. obviously an important issue, and one that I'm very interested in discussing :-) Mags - --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Make free worldwide PC-to-PC calls. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:20:03 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Adoption Hi Mags, thank you for your informative postings on the adoption laws and procedures in Canada. It certainly helped me to understand some things better. For example, I always assumed the Gibbs new Kilauren's name was originally Kelly. I imagined they renamed her with a similar but somehow "more serious" name because maybe they thought the name Kelly was too frivolous or something. Instead, the similarity is purely coincidal! Not knowing anything about the birth mother must have made them wonder about Kilauren's biological inheritance sometimes, I guess. Also, if they found traits in Kilauren they did not recognise in themselves they might have been tempted to "blame" them on the unknown birthmother. I'm not saying they did, just guessing they might. Kilauren, in her turn, must sometimes have felt lonely, finding herself to be different from her family and not knowing why. And Joni - signing away her child forever - well, she said it best herself, she was sad and sorry but not ashamed. Yet, she couldn't forget her child and had to live through the torment. I have no personal experience of adoption myself but a couple of years ago there was a popular tv-show called "Lost without a trace" in Sweden (and, I think, similar shows were running in other countries, too). It was about adopted children, now adults, who were looking for their birth parents. Judging by this show, it seems to me that adoption laws are similar all over the world. They grant the birth mother anonymity but also prohibit her to search for her child later. Some countries allow grown children to look for their biological parents and open up the archives for them but not for anybody else. In this program journalists helped find the biological parents - - the mother mostly - and the reunions were always very moving scenes. Of course, the programs stopped there and did not follow up what happened from that point onwards. I can only guess at the emotional roller coaster all parts involved will have had to experience. In Kilauren's case there was the additional task of having to deal with the fact that her birth mother is a world-famous artist. As for Joni, I imagine she repressed the guilt she probably felt after all over the years and had to face Kilauren with that. Being an unwed mother in the 60's there was no way you could win. If you gave up the child for adoption or if you had an abortion you were a bad woman, if you kept the child, you had to wear the mark of a "fallen" woman, along with all the other hardships. Often enough your family would turn away from you and leave you to struggle on your own. Hard to believe but sadly true. My own mother never failed to "bless" me with the words "don't you dare come home pregnant" when I was a teenager trying to have some fun on a Saturday night. - - So Joni was trapped with these choices between "the plague and cholera". From this perspective you could probably say that the adoption laws had the best intentions to make life easier for the mother. Once she gave up the child, it was as if she never had been pregnant. She was not a mother anymore. Then again, motherhood/parenthood is not only a biological fact but grows out of caring for and loving a child at least as much. The adoption laws probably helped adoptive parents to grow into their roles. With the birth mother unknown to them they were free to think and act as if the child never had had any other parents for as far as they knew she hadn't. Just my thoughts on the subject, Marion ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:47:33 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! Right you are, Monika! I was surprised at the choice of Lennon, too, that's why I put a question mark after his name. Maybe they were thinking of John and Yoko in the 70's but it's still a long shot. And Dylan changed from folk to something else, even if his changes arguably aren't as radical as Joni's. Paul Simon, on the other hand, has always been the same, I think. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Motitan@aol.com Skickat: den 22 augusti 2007 18:07 Till: marionleffler@telia.com; joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: SV: John, Bob, Simon - no Joni! In a message dated 8/22/2007 11:21:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marionleffler@telia.com writes: And he replied promptly, saying they did not include Joni because she was not typical of the era they wrote about, the folkrock of the 60's! Also, she left the rock scene and went on to other - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well that's kind of funny. I can understand if the writer said he has nothing against Joni but John Lennon wasn't part of the folk scene. He was a writer, a brilliant one at that, but certainly never a folk artist. He was rock through and through. And as far as Dylan goes, I thought he too when into other genres? I can't say anything for Simon though.... - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:29:12 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Shine music sampler A music sampler of all the tunes on Shine is available at Amazon.com... sounds to me like Joni is pushing the envelope has always... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:23:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: Wednesday from Bo Imagine....a short posting from me....lots going on, mostly negative unfortunately....everything passes....can't think of Joni's wonderful line.... I want to congratulate Arkay on the new baby....Freda Green is a wonderful name!!!! Wow...do I ever relate to something Joni said..."The reason I'm very private is because I'm very open". That's me too! It was so much fun to read the Digest all about everyone and their animals...I'm not too comfortable with the word pet. 35 days to wait!!!!! Peace and love from Bo - --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:43:15 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: SJC Chaka Khan I heard the single "Disrespectful" from Chaka's upcoming CD "Funk This," and it's great! As Muller posted before, Chaka's CD is released on the same day as "Shine," and Herbie Hancock's "River: The Joni Letters." September 25th will be a great day, and I'm looking forward to hearing Chaka sing "Ladies Man." For those who have Sirius satellite radio, Chaka will be interviewed on the OUTQ (the gay station) at 9:00 a.m. EST. I hope she mentions Joni! Even if you don't have Sirius, you can always go to sirius.com and sign up as a visitor free for 3 days, then launch the player, choose talk radio, then OUTQ, and listen online. Jimmy ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:43:29 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Your top 3 Joni moments Ok, there was this discussion taking place on a music messageboard I go to pertaining a certain artist as far as this topic goes. Basically I stole their idea and decided to post it here. Anyhow, what are your top 3 Joni moments? These can be ANYTHING as long as they concern Joni, whether it be you actually seeing Joni in concert, buying a record the first time, meeting Joni, hearing a song at the right time, something at Jonifest, etc etc. What are your top 3 elite Joni moments? The 3 moments that stand out to you the most? My top 3 thus far: - -Hearing Free Man In Paris while working at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for the first time thus being introduced to Joni. Something went off in my head when I heard the song and that started my now never ending Joni journey. - -Going to Jonifest my very first time this year! Incredible! Words can do it no justice. - -Watching Joni play live on a DVD the first time. That got me hooked as well. These of course are subject to change...... So what are yours? - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:50:11 +0000 From: "Owen Duff" Subject: Shine Samples on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Shine-Joni-Mitchell/dp/B000UR366S/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-5590714-6995921?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1187822940&sr=1-1 Lycos email has 300 Megabytes of free storage... Get it now at mail.lycos.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:40:34 -0700 (PDT) From: KEVIN DOHENY Subject: 3 Great Joni Stimulants I mean moments I have had many great moments in my life that either revolve around or involve Joni..I will try to narrow em down to just three.. 1- A few years ago when I had just met my boyfriend.. Driving him home and playing/singing him the entire Court and Spark album...He makes and is really into techno music and I was sh*t scared we werent going to "gel"..Needless to say we fell in love that night..He marveled at her "musicality" and saw the passion I had for her music and has since become as much a fan as any techno loving man can become.. (He remixed a few songs..at my request..Its kinda cool hearing Joni as she might have been played at Limelight (very famous former nyc club) 2- Listening to For the Roses for the first time and then listening to it two times again..I had only heard Clouds at that point and someone gave me FTR on record..The second side of that album is absolutely PERFECT! (the first side's not to shabby either..lol) But i just looove how she ended it with such power..It made me want more..I had to listen to it again to make sure what I had just listened to was real.. or should i say really made me feel the way it did..Similar to above.. i fell in love with Joni that night 3- A tie.. Between discovering the JMDL and rejoicing in the fact that I was not alone in my Joni world and secondly emptying my bank account to fly to Chicago to see Joni at the Rosemont theater for the Both Sides Now tour..That is until I hopefully get to see her again someday.. This was fun Monika :) Thanks! xoxo Kev - --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #258 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)