From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #253 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, August 18 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 253 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Shine Lyrics..My take ["Ross, Les" ] SV: Shine lyrics ["Marion Leffler" ] Shine's lyrics, and the Church [Andeemac2006 ] Re: Shine Lyrics..My take [Catherine McKay ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination [Michael Flaherty ] Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! [Peep Richman ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination ["Gerald A. Notaro" <] Re: Shine lyrics, my take [Bob Muller ] Re: Shine lyrics, my take [David Sapp ] Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #326 [Peep Richman ] Shine ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Shine [Em ] RE: Shine ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Shine [Bob Muller ] Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination ["AJ" ] Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! ["Christian MACKOWSKI"] LONG Both sides, please ! ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:34:39 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take well, these are a long way from the density of imagery we've poured over in songs like shades of scarlett, don't interrupt the sorrow, drjd et al. and it seems to me it's been heading this way in joni's music for a while now. should this be seen as some form of decline or simply a desire for succinctness? i mean, she's promoted herself as a poet in interviews she's given. perhaps it's just me but when i read things like that i kinda expect 'more' though i'm unable to defend or quantify that feeling when i accept that definitions applying thereto usually carry an unwarranted constraint. who decides what constitutes poety? write whatever you like and let it take the form it takes depending on what you feel you want to communicate. i try to write words to tunes i make and physically baulk at the first sign of the florid or contrived. and no, i'm not comparing anything i do with joni's work so much as trying to point out that a desire for plain speaking can be demanding and in my case defeating. (says he, wandering all over the point of this mail......) i think too that the subject matter in these lyrics and position from which she embarked on this latest work perhaps preclude for her the possibly-perceived 'indulgence' of the image-dense lyrics of joni's past work. she means to speak directly and without allusion. well, it's a thought. i don't agree with some of the things being said in opposition to the use of the poem If. I think, in a recent poll here in the UK, that If was voted the most popular poem (among those who chose to vote on the topic). I have never liked the work associating it, probably through some teacher influence at school, with the age of the british empire. It's an association i can't shake and feel uncomfortable getting behind. i'm happy for anyone to take material such as this and re-work it in a new form. to assume otherwise is to imply a sanctity to the source material i doubt it merits. but that's just my point of view. i love what she did with the verses from Corinthians in the song Love and also in STB. I adore both those songs and feel that they do nothing to detract from the original material at all. in fact, i am not disposed even to make comparisons, rather accept them (the songs) for what they are and whether, for me, they work or not. i think they do. and it's not like she's assuming credit for the verse though she does say she improves upon the original. that's a matter of opinion and her opinion matters to her alone. others can make up their own mind. but i feel the properly credited adoption of other source material is fair game. hmmm, i wonder why i have the feeling that Hana is about joni's mother. though the timescale may not have worked, i had an idea there might have been a song about her in this collection. anyhoo, back to work les (london....where passingontheright aint assholery....) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:13:21 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Shine lyrics Hi Laura, having brought up in the Catholic faith  I left the church at 19  I have to respectfully disagree with some of your points. But let med start with abortion and Joni  she said that abortion was unheard of at the time she got pregnant so that was no option for her. Nobody knows what she would have chosen otherwise. Its a tough choice to make but I still would like to maintain that it gives women freedom  the freedom to decide not to have an unwanted child. I am not looking for a debate over abortion as such. Birth control  without it hundreds and thousands of young women would either get pregnant and have to face the choice of abortion, marriage they dont really want or being a single parent. Sure, you are right, it has huge advantages for irresponsible men, too but you somehow seem to imply  forgive me if Im wrong  that women are not as interested in sex as men, which is precisely the argument that womens sexuality has been repressed by since the 17th century. Before that, it was supposed that women had a greater interest in sexuality than men did and that they therefore had to be restrained. Anyway you look at it you loseThe catholic church does not permit any sexual activity outside marriage, and even then only for the purpose of reproduction and only in a certain way. If that is not repressing sexuality I dont know what is. The ban on parts of the Bible  interesting how you turn this around into something positive. Sorry, I cannot see this as anything other than subordination to the interpretations of the Church. You are not allowed to make up your own mind. And its not only parts of the Bible that are considered unsuitable but lots of other books  Darwin for one  and uncountable numbers of fictional books and novels. Being a good Catholic, in my opinion, involves more than loving Jesus and abiding by the Ten Commandments and the gospel of love. It also involves abiding to the rules the Church has laid down. I might still be a Catholic at heart but I am no longer a Catholic in the eyes of the church. Marion _____ Fren: LCStanley7@aol.com [mailto:LCStanley7@aol.com] Skickat: den 17 augusti 2007 05:54 Till: joni@smoe.org; marionleffler@telia.com Dmne: Re: Shine lyrics Marion wrote: (no birth control, no abortions, sexual inhibition generally, no divorces, bans on certain books etc). To be a good Catholic you have to create a personal prison for yourself. Hi Marion, If abortion would have meant freedom for Joni, she wouldn't have Kelly Green today. As for birth control, historically one could say it was a source of prison rather than a freedom considering how many women using chemical birth control died from breast cancer before the right amount of progesterone was added to the pill. Birth control was invented by men so men could have sex with women whenever men wanted without the consequences. If it wasn't so and men wanted sexual freedom through birth control, they would have looked at tampering with their own physiology rather than the woman's. Sexual inhibition... I would say instead the Catholic church is totally sexual. The whole thing is set up around eternal consummation between God and the Church. For example read St. John of the Cross' Spiritual Canticle or The Living Flame of Love. Both are very sexual like the Song of Songs. Concerning the banning of books, the Catholic church is the only Christian church I know of that has had the balls to ban members from reading the Bible to prevent fundamentalist interpretations leading to the harm of people. In my experience with Catholicism, to be a good Catholic means to love as Jesus exemplified not to be legalistic like the Pharisees. My guess is that Joni is pointing to corruption in the Catholic church rather than the Catholic church at heart. I could be wrong of course. Love, Laura ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:36:58 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Shine's lyrics, and the Church Bob Muller said :- She's saying that the crimes of the church should be illuminated, and by the same token the same light should illuminate the doctrines and philosophies that the church has all but forgotten. "Turn the other cheek", "love your enemies & pray for your persecutors", these concepts have been totally abandoned by the American Christian church. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with your thoughts, how Christains can Ignore the Sermon on the Mount Baffels me, Its like they rip this section out of there Bibles ???? Really every doctrine that Republicans spout is TOTTALY opposite to Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount The one I feel bitter about these days is This " I think that it would be a very Christian thing to vote for a National Health service so that every child Born in the USA is covered by Health Care, dont you think, this is some thing Jesus Christ would approve of IE the Good Samaritan. In fact i think it would be a terrific way to announce a new Democratic Policy ie the CHRISTIAN HEALTH CARE COVERAGE POLICY FOR EVERYONE " now how would Republicans knock this stratergy Dont you think ?????? But no I meet a lot of people that say " I am not paying for someone else's Health care, they should get a job to pay for there own health care " and these same people go to church every sunday and worship a Bible that has the Sermon on the Mount within, I suspect that the Sermon on the Mount is hardly ever read in American Churches using your words " these concepts have been totally abandoned by the American Christian church." I hear some people call them the Parrables!!!! No there not !!! there Jesus Christs direct teachings to us all including G W Bush As far as the Catholic Church goes in Shine, I think she is referring to how some People feel trapped in Marrige, for Divorce is a sin, Its for life a Prison if you like // my thoughts ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:40:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Shine Lyrics..My take - --- "Ross, Les" wrote: > should this be seen as some form of decline or > simply a desire for > succinctness? Yes. ;-) > i don't agree with some of the things being said in > opposition to the use of > the poem If. I think, in a recent poll here in the > UK, that If was voted the > most popular poem (among those who chose to vote on > the topic). I have never > liked the work associating it, probably through some > teacher influence at > school, with the age of the british empire. If... the poem "If" was one that was taught to every schoolchild in the UK, particularly 20 or more years ago, and I suspect that it was, because it was also popular here (not sure about these days), then I'd not be surprised it was chosen as the most popular poem, and oh, what a long and rambling sentence that was and continues to be. But then, think about the songs that are routinely chosen as "best" in opinion polls and most of the stuff that stays in Top 40 charts well beyond its best-before date. I don't even remember *if* we read "If" in school, but I have certainly been familiar with it for quite a while and I have a similar distaste or revulsion for it. It may be the association with "Empire" and all the icky things for which that stands, or it may have something to do with the fact that my ex rather liked it (insert gagging sound here.) I always here it being spoken in a religiously fervoured sort of tone with smarmy, inspirational/martial music played behind it (perhaps something like "Land of hope and glory" played by a high school or military band.) > it's not like she's assuming credit for the verse > though she does say she > improves upon the original. that's a matter of > opinion and her opinion > matters to her alone. others can make up their own > mind. but i feel the > properly credited adoption of other source material > is fair game. I'm not as offended by her changing words as some are, although for some reason, her changing the Yeats bothers me more than the others - but not enough for me to dislike the song. In fact, I like it, but she could have left out some of the "head of a lions" in the background. Of course, Yeats and Kipling are in a completely different league, so maybe that's it. Corinthians or anything from the Bible is very fair game, since there are so many translations and interpretations of those in any case. But she does come across as very arrogant when she says she improved on them. I hope it's a Joni joke, but it's hard to say. Changing lyrics to fit into song form is probably something you'd have to do in any case. Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:00:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination AJ wrote: >>>Lyrics are not poetry and poems are not lyrics. They have many things in common, but they are not the same. That's why I haven't read Shine's lyrics or any of the posts about them. I want to "hear" them performed by Joni, not read them. That's just me, though. Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:26:07 +0200 From: "Oddmund Kaarevik" Subject: LONG Both sides, please ! Dera Joni listers, Jonphiles, Jonilovers, Joni all over ! (and our dear Joni in cover) I've been following the latest threads with a growing interest - there are so many things I want to comment on, I'll have to give it a go... Remeber last october. It was a rainy night...I twas autumn. I was going to a psycho-drama class I attended to, and on the bus I was thrilled to read that Joni was relasing a new album. A new album! I just couldn't believe it. Since I discovered Joni in late 1999, I'd never before experienced Joni relesaing new stuff while I was a fan. So this was great news. I just read Doug Fishers interwies from Ottowa citizen, 'till it got under my skin, till it was in my blood, like holy wine. Now - after re-reading it, I see the point some made that they are not surprised of Joni appearing as a social critic on this album too. She raises social critic in the interview which seem to have been given in the middel of the flow "Shine" was born from. Interstingly, though, Joni says: "Since religions have failed and politics have failed and the world is in a massive mess with nobody is at the helm, the job of the artist becomes all the more important," Ms. Mitchell said. "You have to make some kind of an attempt, not to offend leaders and society, but to include and inspire them to be far-sighted." ...and Besides, she said, "you have to be careful how you put things these days or somebody'll kill you." I guess that's what she tries to do...She use her position as one of todays most acclaimed artists to try to influence the world political, hats of Joni, I think that is great. But, at some point, I feel that the humor is gone. Where is the sweet inspiration... I thin Mark L. Levinson put i greatly, in saying that: "It's as if Ms. Mitchell looks at life from one side now... " Because for me the texts on "Shine" appears only to be social critic, critic of the president and of the mess the world is in....And, in only text version, I think too the words for the album "Shine"appears a little flat. Mr. Levinson also said that: "But there have been other instances in which her music has made all the difference; maybe this time too..." And AMEN to that. Although "Woodstock" is considered a great poem of Camille Paglia and others, it wouldn't be the same without a melody, not for me anyways. I think sometimes the people being most critical of Joni and for example her signig up with Starbucks appears as the most creative. I think this is really funny: "What happened to the ideals of the Sixties? They put up a parking lot, apparently..." It was in the end of a person critizing Joni for signing up with Starbucks for providing free coffe to the the Troops at Guantanomo Bay... Smart, a bit wicked and very funny! I must say that I can see why people was and is being a bit shocked and surpirsed for Joni signing up with Starbucks. In that very same interview with Ottowa Citiizen. "The record labels are criminally insane ... ugly, screwed up, crooked, uncreative, selfish," she told the Citizen. "After the last work that I did, the vice-president of the company (Reprise) came up to me and said, 'Joan, this is a work of genius, but we're just selling cars now. We've got cute cars, we've got fast cars, we've got ugly cars - and we just don't know what to do with your car.'" ...I'll just hope that Starbucks and Hear Music proves us wrong - and surpise us as not being all that, but my hopes aren't too high. Well, I am of course happy that Joni is signed up with somebody, just as happy as I would be I she signed up withe some of the criminal, insane, screwed up, crooked, uncreative and selfish record company she critizes her, I want to hear her music, I don't mind. But in a way I mind a bit too, because she has been so clear, and suddenly she changes her mind. So to Mike in Barcelona. I think your point about having principles and not followig them when it all comes down to a critical point, is a really good one. Because why do we at all carry principles, maybe we should just throw them away, and float on, all right, happy-go-lucky-like...? Joni is our Dear Lady of Duality. She is all of it. That is what I love so much about her. Now I'm lsitening to Chalk Mark in the Rain Storm, a record of some minor status here on the list, but I think also that has some great tracks. Joni is not just a lonely painter, she is one of the greates. And I'm sure she will surprise us with strange chords, beautiful voice and good arrangements on "Shine" too. And I would be thrilled to watch the Ballet with her music. It's great that Joni is back, and great that Starbucks pus she into it. But where is that crackin-up-humor, and that sparkle in the eye I dont see it yet. But I am, as many of you entertained and thrilled of a boy at my age who sees it: . a nearly 64 year old woman has the voice of a loud as hell 29 year old jersey boy..I will play this album..full blast as close to the white house as I can get.. Viva Joni!! So go Kevin, go, go, go ! And please enlighten us more with your Joni-Love. And if Shine has the same energy as Dog eat Dog, well, that would be a blessing to all of man-kind. This was extremely long, but I had so many things to say... so please bear with me Love and have a great weekend ! Oddmund, Norway ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:59:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! Hello to all our family members! My computer is right next to my bedroom window that gives me the pleasure of watching my little garden grow. I have a bird bath and to have the chance to see different and new birds cool off with a bath and a drink of clean water makes me so happy. It's a HUMID and hot one today but here I am safely tucked away in my little "canyon" (hardly...that's really my fantasy) and I have the magnificent opportunity to write to people who are sensitive, oh so bright, gifted in many ways, and, of course, we all share our love of Joni. I won't read the lyrics or see the cover until the actual day of the release. My anticipation is HUGE and I'm so 'self-disciplined' I really can't believe it...maybe it's the result from the process of growing older...operative word...'growing'! There always has been a controversial foundation to many of Joni's lyrics. Personally, I doubt if she gives this a thought or cares. The power of the unconscious, and Joni's natural gift of blending her subconscious with her perceptions of her world and the many people who are so blessed from the experience of knowing Joni, can't be, in my thinking, over-stated. Joni is magnificently honest...even raw with her myriad of thoughts and emotions..."Shine", I can't imagine, will lack these qualities we love so dearly about our Joni. I've thought about this recently and, actually for many years, come to think of it, but I've never analyzed Joni's lyrics....I react to them...they so often evoke a super-strong personal reaction within me...I wonder about what she writes and how she delivers her lyrics with the musical instrument of her voice. Please don't misunderstand my thinking and sharing this with you. I love to read all of your postings and the marvelous interactions that may follow, but today I just felt like writing about how I feel about the release of "Shine". I grew up in the 1960's and 1970's...gee, hope I'm still growing...hitchhiked to Woodstock for my honeymoon with Ken...and the last time I saw Richard was in 2002, after a 20 year loving (I thought) sharing of our lives together...immediately after we were financially forced to sell our beloved house that had been my dream for 17 previous years, he moved 'with' me to an apartment and late that night he just said he couldn't live there and walked out. There wasn't a discussion...warning...nothing. I just told him I wished him the very best of life...that I wish that this will include excellent health, and a new love. That was it. We talked briefly two days later and that's that. The point is, I have the values I held dearly to my heart that were such a strong part of those previous decades, and after Richard left, and there were so many overwhelming changes in my life, I remember arranging Joni's albums, from her first to the last, all covering my floor, and listening to every single word, note and thoughts she shared in each of her priceless works. To say the very least, it was Joni...and maybe exclusively Joni... who helped me through those vigorously emotionally demanding days and months and years. I feel I have no vocabulary to express to you how I feel about the unexpected gift of "Shine". I'm so thankful. I'm feel much like I felt in the 60's and 70's, consumed and unimaginably saddened by the unmentionable situations in our country...in so many countries on this planet. I remember going to Earth Day, and now it's so difficult for me to process what has happened to our planet. Disjointed thoughts...I know...but history tells us that our country, our planet, has always, for whatever year it might have been, experienced unspeakable horrors. And we've all heard that history repeats itself...that isn't what's primary in my mind. What exactly are we going to do about any of the many situations and unspeakable horror that is happening...right this very second? Maybe Joni is giving us a shove in a new direction with "Shine". That remains to be seen, a mystery for the moment. I'm praying...and my prayers include that Joni will really help me decide precisely how and where I can be of the most help....I'm not THAT old (57 end of this month)...I've remained in-shape...feel strong. I feel that "Shine" will help to propel me to a new destiny....a very specific way to be of some help wherever that may be. Thank you for allowing me to ramble on. Be well, be safe, my dear friends. Bo - --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:11:09 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination Okay, I see your point. Inspiration is okay but altering isn't. I can see that. Jim - ----- Original Message ----- > I'm not offended by great art performed poorly or imperfectly; > I'm offended by great art being fiddled with, especially by > a great artist in another field. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:38:40 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, my take Yes I think the lyrics on Shine are more direct than some of Joni's other work... but I believe that was her intention. I remember on the Amanda Ghost interview Joni made a passing comment that Shine was "Joni for dummies" and then she chuckled... going on to say that she was dealing with major themes supported by major chords. My initial impression after reading the lyrics was that these were probably going to be perfectly crafted "pop" songs and reflective of Joni's lifelong songwriting education. These lyrics from If really jumped out at me (yes I know it's an adaptation): If you can bear to hear The truth you've spoken Twisted and misconstrued By some smug fool Or watch your life''s work Torn apart and broken down And still stoop to build again With worn out tools. I felt as if Joni could be describing her own career and what some have done to her life work in the name of criticism rather than appreciating the tremendous gift she has given the world. And reading the last two lines I imagined that was how Joni must have felt as she stooped to record again... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:41:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination For what it's worth, Joni did approach and receive permission from Yeats' estate to rework Slouching towards Bethlehem. I think that demonstrates commendable artistic integrity. Jerry Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Okay, I see your point. Inspiration is okay but altering isn't. I can > see > that. > > Jim > ----- Original Message ----- >> I'm not offended by great art performed poorly or imperfectly; >> I'm offended by great art being fiddled with, especially by >> a great artist in another field. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:25:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, my take That's a great observation, David - and I would say you're spot on. I really think that there's a lot more going on here lyrically than people can see. Of course, when we get the musical foundation for these new words maybe things will fall into place. And how about "Night Of The Iguana"? That's kind of an oddity...coming straight from the Tennessee Williams text - I haven't read it but I've seen the film two or three times. Also odd, but starring Sue Lyon so I love it by default. Joni must be a Williams fan as she's referenced his work previously. Bob NP: REM, "Find The River" - --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:35:02 -0700 (PDT) From: David Sapp Subject: Re: Shine lyrics, my take ///Joni must be a Williams fan as she's referenced his work previously./// Yes she must be... "she dodges the light like Blanche Dubois"... but I'm really optimistic about the new release and really like the sounds I am hearing on the snippets that are going around... If has really caught my fancy... signing off for now, Peace, David - --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:24:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2007 #326 Whoops!!! I posted this morning as Sunny Saturday...it's Sunny Friday!!!!!!!!!! Just a little confused with the days of the week.... Love to you... Bo - --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:55:16 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Shine Bo wrote "about the unexpected gift of "Shine". I'm so thankful" That is how I feel, thankful & rather amazed that she has written & recorded new material. I briefly glanced at the lyrics. The writing that most grabbed me was the beautiful piece written about the instrumental song. I will wait to really hear the lyrics when they are part of the music. Personally, I don't understand the desire to rewrite parts of someone else's poem. My preference would be to use it for inspiration & make it unrecognizable (creative plagiarism) or just put music to it straight. But that is just me. Also, I prefer 'topical' songs to be delivered within a story (like my favorite anti war song 'Rich Man's War' by Steve Earl who btw references, to my ear, an older antiwar song in his bridge) for a greater emotional impact. But I hear Kevin who is saying she is speaking to him & his generation & I relate to that because my son feels much the same. Actually I feel much the same about what is happening to our world & our culture yet the flower power that still is alive & well within me marvels at so much natural beauty that surrounds us (like Joni's intro). So many worry about terrorist attacks yet it was the winds & tides of mother nature who did the most damage to our country within the last few years (okay maybe that is not true considering the multi pronged damage created by this administration over the past 7 years but that is another subject entirely). Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 12:05:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Shine so where are we supposed to get the album? Do I have to actually GO to a Starbucks? or order online? :) I'm looking forward to it and will go into it as devoid of cynicism as possible. eMusic.com offered the lastest McCartney album. Wondering if there's any chance "Shine" will appear there as well. happy Friday folks, Em " We need an El Camino" "Some things I know, and some things I don't." ... John From Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:50:08 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Shine You can get it from the usual places. I "pre-ordered" one from Amazon. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Em Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 3:05 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Shine so where are we supposed to get the album? Do I have to actually GO to a Starbucks? or order online? :) I'm looking forward to it and will go into it as devoid of cynicism as possible. eMusic.com offered the lastest McCartney album. Wondering if there's any chance "Shine" will appear there as well. happy Friday folks, Em " We need an El Camino" "Some things I know, and some things I don't." ... John From Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Shine I'm planning on swinging by Earshot on the 25th and getting Joni & Herbie. Like Richard said, it's available wherever you typically shop. I'm sure it will be on itunes too, and if Macca's CD was on emusic I'm certain that Joni's will be too. Bob NP: Dave Blackburn, Robin Adler & The Joni Band, "Woodstock" - --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:42:56 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: Slouching Towards Bethlehem's First Origination - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Notaro" > For what it's worth, Joni did approach and receive permission from Yeats' > estate to rework Slouching towards Bethlehem. I think that demonstrates > commendable artistic integrity. > > Jerry I wouldn't argue that she didn't do it with integrity, and that it didn't have great meaning for her. And that she no doubt felt a profound artistic urge to do it. I just think it was a mistake. Does that make sense? It doesn't honor Yeats or Mitchell. - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:57:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: here's the page for Joni Mitchell a la CBC archives http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-68-2462/arts_entertainment/joni_mitchell/ that will take you directly to the Joni pages. All sides now, so they say ;-) Mags - --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail - --------------------------------- Get news delivered. Enjoy RSS feeds right on your Mail page. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:56:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Mags Subject: cbc archives Joni Mitchell http://archives.cbc.ca/IDT-1-68/arts_entertainment/ follow the link to some more Joni from the CBC archives. Mags - --------------------------------- Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:56:23 +0200 From: "Christian MACKOWSKI" Subject: Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! HI Bo, Please let me tell you that what you've written is a lake of Beauty and Wisdom.......Know that I will be waitin' with you ,till the 46th day to discover that "Album" Or should I say 45th....cause I'm in France Best Christian - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peep Richman" To: Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 5:59 PM Subject: Re: It's Bo on a sunny Saturday...46 days to wait! > Hello to all our family members! > My computer is right next to my bedroom window that gives me the pleasure > of watching my little garden grow. I have a bird bath and to have the > chance to see different and new birds cool off with a bath and a drink of > clean water makes me so happy. > It's a HUMID and hot one today but here I am safely tucked away in my > little "canyon" (hardly...that's really my fantasy) and I have the > magnificent opportunity to write to people who are sensitive, oh so > bright, gifted in many ways, and, of course, we all share our love of > Joni. > I won't read the lyrics or see the cover until the actual day of the > release. My anticipation is HUGE and I'm so 'self-disciplined' I really > can't believe it...maybe it's the result from the process of growing > older...operative word...'growing'! > There always has been a controversial foundation to many of Joni's > lyrics. Personally, I doubt if she gives this a thought or cares. > The power of the unconscious, and Joni's natural gift of blending her > subconscious with her perceptions of her world and the many people who are > so blessed from the experience of knowing Joni, can't be, in my thinking, > over-stated. > Joni is magnificently honest...even raw with her myriad of thoughts and > emotions..."Shine", I can't imagine, will lack these qualities we love so > dearly about our Joni. > I've thought about this recently and, actually for many years, come to > think of it, but I've never analyzed Joni's lyrics....I react to > them...they so often evoke a super-strong personal reaction within me...I > wonder about what she writes and how she delivers her lyrics with the > musical instrument of her voice. > Please don't misunderstand my thinking and sharing this with you. I love > to read all of your postings and the marvelous interactions that may > follow, but today I just felt like writing about how I feel about the > release of "Shine". > I grew up in the 1960's and 1970's...gee, hope I'm still > growing...hitchhiked to Woodstock for my honeymoon with Ken...and the last > time I saw Richard was in 2002, after a 20 year loving (I thought) sharing > of our lives together...immediately after we were financially forced to > sell our beloved house that had been my dream for 17 previous years, he > moved 'with' me to an apartment and late that night he just said he > couldn't live there and walked out. There wasn't a > discussion...warning...nothing. I just told him I wished him the very > best of life...that I wish that this will include excellent health, and a > new love. That was it. We talked briefly two days later and that's that. > The point is, I have the values I held dearly to my heart that were such > a strong part of those previous decades, and after Richard left, and there > were so many overwhelming changes in my life, I remember arranging Joni's > albums, from her first to the last, all covering my floor, and listening > to every single word, note and thoughts she shared in each of her > priceless works. To say the very least, it was Joni...and maybe > exclusively Joni... who helped me through those vigorously emotionally > demanding days and months and years. > I feel I have no vocabulary to express to you how I feel about the > unexpected gift of "Shine". I'm so thankful. > I'm feel much like I felt in the 60's and 70's, consumed and > unimaginably saddened by the unmentionable situations in our country...in > so many countries on this planet. I remember going to Earth Day, and now > it's so difficult for me to process what has happened to our planet. > Disjointed thoughts...I know...but history tells us that our country, our > planet, has always, for whatever year it might have been, experienced > unspeakable horrors. And we've all heard that history repeats > itself...that isn't what's primary in my mind. What exactly are we going > to do about any of the many situations and unspeakable horror that is > happening...right this very second? > Maybe Joni is giving us a shove in a new direction with "Shine". That > remains to be seen, a mystery for the moment. > I'm praying...and my prayers include that Joni will really help me decide > precisely how and where I can be of the most help....I'm not THAT old (57 > end of this month)...I've remained in-shape...feel strong. I feel that > "Shine" will help to propel me to a new destiny....a very specific way to > be of some help wherever that may be. > Thank you for allowing me to ramble on. > Be well, be safe, my dear friends. > Bo > > > --------------------------------- > Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:43:25 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: LONG Both sides, please ! Every time I've read a quote like this I've thought that the executive was saying something very different from what Joni "heard". To me he's saying, "You deserve better than what we can give you." I don't see how she can interpret "this is a work of genuis" as if he said something "ugly, screwed up, crooked... or selfish." I can see 'uncreative' in what he said b/c the company couldn't figure out how to promote it (that is, hold up their obligation). Jim "The record labels are criminally insane ... ugly, screwed up, crooked, uncreative, selfish," she told the Citizen. "After the last work that I did, the vice-president of the company (Reprise) came up to me and said, 'Joan, this is a work of genius, but we're just selling cars now. We've got cute cars, we've got fast cars, we've got ugly cars - and we just don't know what to do with your car.'" ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #253 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)