From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #212 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, July 17 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 212 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "But" [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: JOTMAS [Bobsart48@aol.com] SV: "But" ["Marion Leffler" ] shameless plug [Dave Blackburn ] Re: shameless plug [Motitan@aol.com] Re: SV: "But" [Motitan@aol.com] Joni and her guitar tunings... [Motitan@aol.com] The JMDL... [Motitan@aol.com] Re: The JMDL... ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: The JMDL... [Victor Johnson ] Re: shameless plug [jeannie ] Re: The JMDL... [FMYFL@aol.com] [none] ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: For The Roses [jeannie ] Re: For The Roses [jeannie ] Re: The JMDL... [jeannie ] Re: For The Roses [jeannie ] Re: For The Roses [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: The JMDL... [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: For The Roses ["Randy Remote" ] The JMDL ["Marion Leffler" ] SV: shameless plug ["Marion Leffler" ] SV: For The Roses ["Marion Leffler" ] The JMDL... [Robert Procyk ] Re: The JMDL... ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: The JMDL... ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:41:44 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: "But" : Marion asked about the "but" of these lines from See you sometime: "I'm not ready to change my name again but you know I'm not after a piece of your fortune and your fame etc" My take - I guess there are more than a few reasons to want to start / maintain/ renew a relationship. Joni seems to be nixing a couple of them. She's not ready for marriage or long term commitment with JT. Nor, on the other hand, is she only looking for something more self servingly trivial - that is, she's not just some hanger-on looking to get more famous via the association - think K Fed or ...well the list goes on. She'd just like to see him sometime. Pretty simple. Pretty sweet. Bobsart - checking in briefly this morning ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:07:55 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: JOTMAS Bob Muller replied to AJ: "JOTMAS was my hands-down fave the very first time I heard FTR. Like all of her best songs, it succeeds on EVERY level; musically, lyrically, emotionally. It is a paean to Beethoven. I refer to it as "Joni Symphony #1", where Down To You is #2 and Paprika Plains is #3."" Nice touch - that recognition that Joni was deliberately stretching her musical range, by looking to longer motifs. For the Roses was a breakthrough here, although you see a hint that this may be coming with the closer in Blue - the extended piano intro and outtro to Richard. In FTR, we see a couple of examples of this - with Lesson in Survival's segue into Let The Wind Carry Me (and the latter track's intro and longer orchestral "break") being another example from that record that she was trying to stretch for more. In Court and Spark, there is Car On a Hill as well as Down to You. But I agree that in each the three songs that Bob M cites, the entire work is presented in no uncertain terms as an ambitious stab by Joni at classical composition - at the risk of appearing brazen (some might say arrogant or pompous, but I agree with the Times critic Don Heckman who - in 1972 prior to the release of FTR in his review of a concert featuring songs from that later-to-be-released album - referred to her as one of North America's most genuinely gifted composers). :-) Bobsart _http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=814_ (http://jonimitchell.com/library/view.cfm?id=814) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:23:40 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: "But" Thanks, Bree, Randy, Jamie and Bob! It's clearer to me now - what would I do without you?:-) I'm so glad to have this opportunity to improve both my knowledge of English and my understanding of Joni's lyrics with the help of the lovely people on this list! And while we're at it, here's another on of Joni's lines that had me wondering at first: (from Just like this train) "I can't find my goodness 'cause I lost my heart". Normally, losing one's heart means falling in love but with Joni's lyrics, it means quite the opposite - the end of a relationship. And that really makes more sense, doesn't it, than the conventional meaning? When you are in love, you don't have to search for your heart, it's pounding happily inside you and contains all your "goodness" at your disposal but when it all ends it's hard not to feel sad, angry, disappointed and all the other "not so good" feelings, or rather, not to turn these negative feelings on your ex and make him/her suffer for them. So Joni took this simple, conventional saying "I lost my heart" and used it to describe a situation quite different from the one usually coming to mind when you hear it. But that's why we love her, isn't it? Marion, now signing off to go out into the sunshine. - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Bobsart48@aol.com Skickat: den 17 juli 2007 14:42 Till: joni@smoe.org Kopia: marionleffler@telia.com Dmne: Re: "But" : Marion asked about the "but" of these lines from See you sometime: "I'm not ready to change my name again but you know I'm not after a piece of your fortune and your fame etc" My take - I guess there are more than a few reasons to want to start / maintain/ renew a relationship. Joni seems to be nixing a couple of them. She's not ready for marriage or long term commitment with JT. Nor, on the other hand, is she only looking for something more self servingly trivial - that is, she's not just some hanger-on looking to get more famous via the association - think K Fed or ...well the list goes on. She'd just like to see him sometime. Pretty simple. Pretty sweet. Bobsart - checking in briefly this morning ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:46:48 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: shameless plug Dear all, Here's a a shameless plug for our band playing all Joni music this Saturday July 21st at 7.30 in concert at the Hilltop Center, Fallbrook CA. We have a core quintet plus two backup singers and it's a tight well-rehearsed ensemble of players who LOVE Joni music. Some original arrangements and some note for note renditions (down to the smallest detail!) As usual we're tackling some challenging tunes but you just gotta hear the choral Shadows and Light to believe it...it ain't the simplified Persuasions version! We've added Blue, Talk to Me, FMIP, Cherokee Louise, Amelia (with two swirling guitars and vibes) and an arrangement of Woodstock that is Bill Frisell-meets-U2 since the last show. The finest drummer in our area is with us this time and he and the extra singers take the whole thing to a new level. If you are in driving distance of Fallbrook CA which is between San Diego and Riverside off the I-15 we would love to have you come and hear what we've been developing for two years. It will certainly be the best $15 you ever spent. Tickets and more info at http:// robinadler.com/ or email me off list for directions or questions. If you can't make it we'll play really loud so you can hear from where you live.... cheers, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:37:48 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: shameless plug If I lived in California (oh California!) I would be there in a heartbeat no doubt about it! This sounds like it's going to be a fantastic show. G'luck Saturday, have fun, and spread the Joni love! Please, if you wouldn't mind, tell us how your show goes afterwards! - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:50:03 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: "But" In a message dated 7/17/2007 9:27:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marionleffler@telia.com writes: "I can't find my goodness 'cause I lost my heart". Normally, losing one's heart means falling in love but with Joni's lyrics, it means quite the opposite - the end of a relationship. And that really makes more sense, doesn't it, than the conventional meaning? - ------------------------------- Ooh, funny you should mention these lyrics! These are some of my favorite Joni lyrics for the reason you just mentioned! I also love the way Joni sings the words. You can FEEL her pain as she utters these words. It's just brilliant, eh? But I love how Joni does what you mention. She'll take things out of their conventional meaning and put a new spin on it (I could make a list of examples but my time is precious at the moment). I also love how Joni can take very ordinary things, whether they may be images or whatever they may be, link them together in ways you wouldn't have thought to create something extraordinary that gets across what she is saying. I know I've listened to her songs before where she's going on about this and that and so forth and I'm thinking, "ok, what's she getting at?" and then BAM--you get the picture when she's finished the song.....and you think, "wow, how about that?"..... - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:53:27 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Joni and her guitar tunings... I remember reading in an article where either Joni said or it was referenced that she had "special" ways of remembering all her different guitar tunings. I got to admit, it's quite a remarkable feat to have so many tunings and pull them out concert after concert after concert. Does anyone how she had remembered all her tunings? I mean, can you think of an article where she's talking about her "special" way of remembering? I'd imagine she'd associate a particular tuning to something else to remember but I'm curious to the details. Any help would be much appreciated as always! - -Monika ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:30:53 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: The JMDL... I'm curious about a few things concering the JMDL and YOU! I was wondering these three things: 1. When did you sign up to this list/how long have you been here? 2. How did you find the list? 3. Why did you sign up? (as if it's not obvious....but please be very, very particular for your own reason/s) Now answering my own questions (which I usually don't do).... I believe I signed onto this list sometime in November (early November if my memory serves me right---I fondly remember listening to "Blue" and "C&S" that month over and over and over again) of 2006 so I haven't been on here all that long. I found the list through the website which I came across doing a search trying to find a Joni messageboard. I then discovered this was an email list and first signed onto the "digest list." After one or two days of waiting for the digest to come (I'm very impatient) I switched to the option of getting every post as I was hungry for information and discussion! I signed up because my own admiration for Joni Mitchell was growing and I wanted up-to-date information on what she was up to (and what she's been up to). My first and foremost reason was my thirst for knowledge on Joni and her music. My second reason was I wanted to meet the fans of Joni Mitchell and see what sort of bunch you all were. I've had my share of welcoming, friendly fans of artists as well as haughty, rude fans of artists (from different messageboards). Luckily, you guys are of the first category. It continues to surprise me how friendly and generous you all are. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised anymore but as my interaction in everyday life proves the opposite often, it still gets me. Last but not least, I was very curious on what sort of opinions you all held on different albums, songs, etc. of Joni's. - -Monika, until we meet again... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:44:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: The JMDL... Motitan@aol.com wrote: > I'm curious about a few things concering the JMDL and YOU! I was > wondering > these three things: > 1. When did you sign up to this list/how long have you been here? November 6, 1996. I still have the welcome post from Les and Majordomo! > 2. How did you find the list? Alta Vista. LONG before Google. > 3. Why did you sign up? (as if it's not obvious....but please be very, > very > particular for your own reason/s) I'm a librarian and was looking for current information about Joni and as a way to communicate with other Jonistas! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:56:05 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: The JMDL... On Jul 17, 2007, at 11:30 AM, Motitan@aol.com wrote: > I'm curious about a few things concering the JMDL and YOU! I was > wondering > these three things: > 1. When did you sign up to this list/how long have you been here? > 2. How did you find the list? > 3. Why did you sign up? (as if it's not obvious....but please be > very, very > particular for your own reason/s) > > 1. I originally signed up in early '99, after seeing Joni live on her birthday in Atlanta. I had given her a stuffed tiger and roses and posted to tell my story. I was almost immediately told by someone who is no longer a member how I "should have known" to meet up with the jdml at this concert and that I was essentially an idiot for not meeting Joni with everyone else, and not a true fan because I missed the first song. The fact that this person is no longer here speaks for itself. I first met other list members when I attended Pazfest in New Orleans in 2000. An unforgettable experience! 2. I was looking for reviews of the Atlanta concert. 3. Initially, I was just curious with no particular motivation but looking back I can see how it has been inextricably intertwined with my life since then. Pretty amazing when you think about it. Victor, bummed out today because I seemingly dropped my wallet outside my apartment yesterday and it has not shown up yet... NP: Cesti - opening aria from Orantea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:48:15 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: shameless plug I wish I could be there. :{ But, it's alright. Some day soon, I know I'll hear y'all perform. Hopefully at the upcoming Joni-fests, . It sounds like you have your band roaring to go. And here's to you and your band members....it's my very best to y'all in California. Give 'em heaven!! Truly from the heart of Texas, Jean Dave Blackburn wrote: Dear all, Here's a a shameless plug for our band playing all Joni music this Saturday July 21st at 7.30 in concert at the Hilltop Center, Fallbrook CA. We have a core quintet plus two backup singers and it's a tight well-rehearsed ensemble of players who LOVE Joni music. Some original arrangements and some note for note renditions (down to the smallest detail!) As usual we're tackling some challenging tunes but you just gotta hear the choral Shadows and Light to believe it...it ain't the simplified Persuasions version! We've added Blue, Talk to Me, FMIP, Cherokee Louise, Amelia (with two swirling guitars and vibes) and an arrangement of Woodstock that is Bill Frisell-meets-U2 since the last show. The finest drummer in our area is with us this time and he and the extra singers take the whole thing to a new level. If you are in driving distance of Fallbrook CA which is between San Diego and Riverside off the I-15 we would love to have you come and hear what we've been developing for two years. It will certainly be the best $15 you ever spent. Tickets and more info at http:// robinadler.com/ or email me off list for directions or questions. If you can't make it we'll play really loud so you can hear from where you live.... cheers, Dave - --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:13:29 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: The JMDL... In a message dated 7/17/2007 12:09:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > November 6, 1996. I still have the welcome post from Les and Majordomo! > > Jerry's one of the original old farts! I joined in January or February of 1998, so I'm just an old fart. I found JoniMitchell.com. My best friend David Mingus (who's in the hospital right now, so ya'll send some good vibes) was an absolute Joni Mitchell nut. He didn't have a computer, so I would print all the information on Joni's bio pages and give them to him. It was the beginning of 1998 when Wally Breese started a writing contest, a fictional story about Joni, but you had to be a member of the JMDL in order to enter. My friend David loves to write, so he wanted me to sign up for the JMDL so he could enter his short story. There were some great stories submitted by the JMDL, and Bill Dollinger's hilarious story won (I think). Anyway, I got hooked on the JMDL and eventually Mingus got a computer and joined the list too. I don't post that often anymore, but I try to read a lot of the post. Jimmy ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:09:37 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: [none] My interpretation is like yours for the first line; she's doesn't want to get married. Hearing that might jar him, so, in the second line I think she's assuring him. Jim L. Joni said, >>I'm not ready to change my name again >>but you know I'm not after a piece of your fortune and your fame Marion said, >What puzzles me is the word "but". If the first line means "I'm not ready >to get married again yet" - which I have always assumed - then the "but" doesn't make much sense. "And" what feel more logical to me.> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:54:09 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: For The Roses Well, Marion, your FTR message was synchronized with my wanting to ask another question on the song, 'For The Roses,' the other day. The very same moments I was thinking if I had time to ask a question here on the Joni-list, you sent yours in. I liked that. Alright, I've been thinking this for a long time. I know Joni has made Bible references in her lyrics, but here I do not know if referring to a passage of the New Scriptures. Maybe somebody knows. Please, if you would be so kind? Okay, on the last stanza of the song, I guess I seem ungrateful With my teeth sunk in the hand That brings me things I really just can't give up yet Now I sit up here The critic And they introduce some band But they seem {sing} so much confetti Looking at them over my TV set Oh, the power and the glory Just when your getting a taste for worship They start bringing out the hammers And the boards and the nails. ~Joni~ The words really pierce my heart like Job's sad, yet sweet song of sorrow and conviction. That's why I love Joni so much and nobody can ever take her #1 spot in my heart and soul. Without Joni, I don't know where I'd be in my creedence and creative life. We wouldn't even be here. Oh, thanks to the private passions and secret storms! And for the lines about the Lord. Anyway, the passage in the Bible I am referring to is found in Matthew Chapter19: verses 16-24 ~The rich man speaks to Jesus~ And behold, a certain young man came to him and said, "Rabbi, what good works shall I do to have eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "Why do ask me about what is good? There is one who is good, and he is God. But if you will enter into life, keep the commandments." The young man said to him, "Rabbi, the commandments I have kept; what else is want of me?" Jesus said to him, "If you will be perfect, go, and sell what you have and give it to the poor, and you shall have the treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." But the young man, when he heard what he said, went away sad, for he had great possessions. But Jesus said to his disciples, "Amen, I say to you, with great difficulty will the rich man enter the gate of heaven. And furthermore, I say to you, it is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of the needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom." That's it! I guess Bush and Cheney will burn. On another note, a nun explained to me sometime back, when I told her, "I can't figure the needle point. She told me, "It's about the great wall of Jerusalem, really. The wall around Jerusalem protected the whole of the city. At night, all gates got secured and locked to prevent invasions from the enemies. There was but one opening at night, large enough for just one camel and traveller at a time from passing through. And if the camel had loads of saddle bags, he could not fit through the small entrance of the city. So the travelers would have to unload their possessions off the beast in order for it to slide through. Does anyone see the connection? I do. Okay, bye now! Runnin' behind the times, as usual! jeannie Now Playing: Beth Orton, "Concrete Sky.' Such pretty songs she sings. - --- Jamie's Box of Paints wrote: > hmmm nice one to pick up on... > > I think it makes it more conversational, like they > are in mid-argument > or something... I think an 'and' would make it > literary whereas the > 'but' makes it informal. You can never tell if this > is just verbatim > or is it deliberate? With Joni, I guess you have to > assume deliberate > but you never know... it maybe the song that she > hadn't quite finished > when they booked the studio to record the album or > something (massive > conjecture here) and she just had a bunch of chord > changes and some > jottings on a piece of paper that she stuck together > from all that was > going through her head the night before so it was a > last minute > addition. > > Or something.... > > lol > > much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > On 17/07/07, Randy Remote > wrote: > > I agree that 'and' would make more sense. All I > can come > > up with is > > 1) it's a non-sequitor, like when you start your > sentence > > with 'but you know...' > > 2) 'and' sounds too much like a rant..'and > furthermore' > > 3) 'but' just sounded better to the ear, making it > a more > > percussive little run > > ....but you know, there may be more > > RR > > > > From: "Marion Leffler" > > > listened to FTR this sunny Monday afternoon and > was wondering (once again) > > > about the following lyrics from See you > sometime: > > > > > .I'm not ready to change my name again > > > > > > but you know I'm not after a piece of your > fortune and your fame etc > > > > > > What puzzles me is the word "but". If the first > line means "I'm not ready > > > to > > > get married again yet" - which I have always > assumed - then the "but" > > > doesn't make much sense. "And" what feel more > logical to me. On the other > > > hand, Joni always makes sense so there is > probably something to it that I > > > haven't grasped. > > > > > -- > I am a lonely Painter > I live in a Box of Paints > I'm frightened by the devil > But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... > > Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at > > http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 > > acting CV and showreel at > http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 > > http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk > href="http://www.facebook.com/p/Jamie_Zubairi/507811540">Facebook > me! > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:54:09 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: For The Roses Well, Marion, your FTR message was synchronized with my wanting to ask another question on the song, 'For The Roses,' the other day. The very same moments I was thinking if I had time to ask a question here on the Joni-list, you sent yours in. I liked that. Alright, I've been thinking this for a long time. I know Joni has made Bible references in her lyrics, but here I do not know if referring to a passage of the New Scriptures. Maybe somebody knows. Please, if you would be so kind? Okay, on the last stanza of the song, I guess I seem ungrateful With my teeth sunk in the hand That brings me things I really just can't give up yet Now I sit up here The critic And they introduce some band But they seem {sing} so much confetti Looking at them over my TV set Oh, the power and the glory Just when your getting a taste for worship They start bringing out the hammers And the boards and the nails. ~Joni~ The words really pierce my heart like Job's sad, yet sweet song of sorrow and conviction. That's why I love Joni so much and nobody can ever take her #1 spot in my heart and soul. Without Joni, I don't know where I'd be in my creedence and creative life. We wouldn't even be here. Oh, thanks to the private passions and secret storms! And for the lines about the Lord. Anyway, the passage in the Bible I am referring to is found in Matthew Chapter19: verses 16-24 ~The rich man speaks to Jesus~ And behold, a certain young man came to him and said, "Rabbi, what good works shall I do to have eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "Why do ask me about what is good? There is one who is good, and he is God. But if you will enter into life, keep the commandments." The young man said to him, "Rabbi, the commandments I have kept; what else is want of me?" Jesus said to him, "If you will be perfect, go, and sell what you have and give it to the poor, and you shall have the treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." But the young man, when he heard what he said, went away sad, for he had great possessions. But Jesus said to his disciples, "Amen, I say to you, with great difficulty will the rich man enter the gate of heaven. And furthermore, I say to you, it is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of the needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom." That's it! I guess Bush and Cheney will burn. On another note, a nun explained to me sometime back, when I told her, "I can't figure the needle point. She told me, "It's about the great wall of Jerusalem, really. The wall around Jerusalem protected the whole of the city. At night, all gates got secured and locked to prevent invasions from the enemies. There was but one opening at night, large enough for just one camel and traveller at a time from passing through. And if the camel had loads of saddle bags, he could not fit through the small entrance of the city. So the travelers would have to unload their possessions off the beast in order for it to slide through. Does anyone see the connection? I do. Okay, bye now! Runnin' behind the times, as usual! jeannie Now Playing: Beth Orton, "Concrete Sky.' Such pretty songs she sings. - --- Jamie's Box of Paints wrote: > hmmm nice one to pick up on... > > I think it makes it more conversational, like they > are in mid-argument > or something... I think an 'and' would make it > literary whereas the > 'but' makes it informal. You can never tell if this > is just verbatim > or is it deliberate? With Joni, I guess you have to > assume deliberate > but you never know... it maybe the song that she > hadn't quite finished > when they booked the studio to record the album or > something (massive > conjecture here) and she just had a bunch of chord > changes and some > jottings on a piece of paper that she stuck together > from all that was > going through her head the night before so it was a > last minute > addition. > > Or something.... > > lol > > much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > On 17/07/07, Randy Remote > wrote: > > I agree that 'and' would make more sense. All I > can come > > up with is > > 1) it's a non-sequitor, like when you start your > sentence > > with 'but you know...' > > 2) 'and' sounds too much like a rant..'and > furthermore' > > 3) 'but' just sounded better to the ear, making it > a more > > percussive little run > > ....but you know, there may be more > > RR > > > > From: "Marion Leffler" > > > listened to FTR this sunny Monday afternoon and > was wondering (once again) > > > about the following lyrics from See you > sometime: > > > > > .I'm not ready to change my name again > > > > > > but you know I'm not after a piece of your > fortune and your fame etc > > > > > > What puzzles me is the word "but". If the first > line means "I'm not ready > > > to > > > get married again yet" - which I have always > assumed - then the "but" > > > doesn't make much sense. "And" what feel more > logical to me. On the other > > > hand, Joni always makes sense so there is > probably something to it that I > > > haven't grasped. > > > > > -- > I am a lonely Painter > I live in a Box of Paints > I'm frightened by the devil > But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... > > Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at > > http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 > > acting CV and showreel at > http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 > > http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk > href="http://www.facebook.com/p/Jamie_Zubairi/507811540">Facebook > me! > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:05:50 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: The JMDL... Hi Jerry and Monika. One more, before I go. Jerry, I most definitely will keep your friend, Mr. Mingus, in my cries from down here to the Alpha and Omega from up above. Tell Mingus I said so, with my very best! I too, joined in 1998, but I was lost and shy and couldn't figure a darn thing out. I don't know how long I've been here. Off and on for maybe a year?!? Love sucks me back, again and again, this way. Jean NP: Rockets--Cat Power - --- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/17/2007 12:09:43 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > > > November 6, 1996. I still have the welcome post > from Les and Majordomo! > > > > > > Jerry's one of the original old farts! I joined in > January or February of > 1998, so I'm just an old fart. > > I found JoniMitchell.com. My best friend David > Mingus (who's in the hospital > right now, so ya'll send some good vibes) was an > absolute Joni Mitchell nut. > He didn't have a computer, so I would print all the > information on Joni's bio > pages and give them to him. > > It was the beginning of 1998 when Wally Breese > started a writing contest, a > fictional story about Joni, but you had to be a > member of the JMDL in order to > enter. My friend David loves to write, so he wanted > me to sign up for the > JMDL so he could enter his short story. There were > some great stories submitted > by the JMDL, and Bill Dollinger's hilarious story > won (I think). Anyway, I > got hooked on the JMDL and eventually Mingus got a > computer and joined the list > too. > > I don't post that often anymore, but I try to read a > lot of the post. > > Jimmy > > > ************************************** > Get a sneak peek of the all-new > AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:35:07 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: For The Roses I forgot the main question. (I canceled my appointment with the Argentine. He wanted to talk Greg Palast and other political stuff. That's why I'm still here. :P) Okay, when Joni mentions the boards and hammers and nails, do you think she's referring to the Crucifixion of the Christ? I wonder if she's saying something like she's also being crucified? That after all good deeds, they spit on you and kick you and tell you your a liar and a fake playing with the devil's bands? I need some sort of interpretation, please. jeannie NP: Chinito Chinito--Ry Cooder - --- jeannie wrote: > And they introduce some band > But they seem {sing} so much confetti > Looking at them over my TV set > Oh, the power and the glory > Just when your getting a taste for worship > They start bringing out the hammers > And the boards and the nails. ~Joni~ ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:47:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: For The Roses In my mind, it's a pretty clear interpretation to say that that is the case. The giveaway is the inclusion of the word "worship" as a lead-in to that phrase. We had a fairly lengthy thread about it a long time ago, there were several differing interpretations that others had as well. As far as other New Testament references, she recounts the story of Zaccheus in "Passion Play" and of course "Love" is a basic rewrite of Corinthians 13. "In France..." talks about raisning Jesus up from the dead as well. Bob NP: Led Zeppelin, "Nobody's Fault But Mine" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:59:10 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: The JMDL... <1. When did you sign up to this list/how long have you been here?> I stumbled onto JM.com in January '98, and when I saw that there was a Joni Mitchell discussion List I figured it would be filled with intelligent and passionate people - and I was right. Plus, I had thoughts and questions about her work and had nobody to talk to about it. It was amazing to discover people who instantly could relate to all of the Joni-isms and other references to her work that the average music fan is simply unaware of. <2. How did you find the list?> I used the search engine on AOL - I was an AOL subscriber at the time. Like you, I chose the digest method but it was not long before I realized that if you really want to participate in current discussions, the list was the way to go. I'd read a digest and there would be 5-6 things I wanted to respond to. I like this format for discussion much better than a messageboard. Bob NP: David Baerwald, "The Got No Shotgun Hydra Head Octopus Blues" - ------------------------------------------------------------ The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:33:25 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: For The Roses From: "jeannie" > Okay, when Joni mentions the boards and hammers and > nails, do you think she's referring to the Crucifixion > of the Christ? > > I wonder if she's saying something like she's also > being crucified? > That after all good deeds, they spit on you and kick > you and tell you your a liar and a fake playing with > the devil's bands? We kill our prophets. We tire of our heroes and tear them down. Takes all the fun out of hero worship. I imagine she was thinking of the type of adulation that comes with being a pop star-the basic context of the song. Christ/MLK/Kennedys/Lennon/Malcolm X: seems like it's always the left wingers that get the bullet. Too threatening to the status quo I guess. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:47:19 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: The JMDL Hi Monika, 1. I joined the list last November and posted for the first time in December, incidentally in contribution to a discussion on FTR. 2. I found the list through jonimitchellcom. I had googled for Joni and found the website. 3. I had been out of touch with Joni's career for some years for different reasons, my collection of her albums stopped with WTRF. When I came across the WOHAM dvd at the library last autumn I realised Joni had been recording all these years and I wanted to catch up. Also I became interested in her as a person, not just her music. I wanted to learn more about her reunion with her daughter so I googled and found the website and the list. I joined the list because the idea of so many Joni fans in one place fascinated me. All my life - until I found the list - I have never encountered anybody who was into Joni's music as much as I was so the prospect of talking about Joni and especially her lyrics with people who know and appreciate them was very attractive to me. And what I found is more than I could ever have hoped for! Not only are the members of this list Joni-gurus but they are also very friendly, genereous and including. I wish I could meet you all some day! Marion ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:51:25 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: shameless plug Hi Dave, you have to play really LOUD for me to hear you here in Sweden...:-) How about making a tape? Good luck with your performance and audience, Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Dave Blackburn Skickat: den 17 juli 2007 15:47 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: shameless plug Dear all, Here's a a shameless plug for our band playing all Joni music this Saturday July 21st at 7.30 in concert at the Hilltop Center, Fallbrook CA. We have a core quintet plus two backup singers and it's a tight well-rehearsed ensemble of players who LOVE Joni music. Some original arrangements and some note for note renditions (down to the smallest detail!) As usual we're tackling some challenging tunes but you just gotta hear the choral Shadows and Light to believe it...it ain't the simplified Persuasions version! We've added Blue, Talk to Me, FMIP, Cherokee Louise, Amelia (with two swirling guitars and vibes) and an arrangement of Woodstock that is Bill Frisell-meets-U2 since the last show. The finest drummer in our area is with us this time and he and the extra singers take the whole thing to a new level. If you are in driving distance of Fallbrook CA which is between San Diego and Riverside off the I-15 we would love to have you come and hear what we've been developing for two years. It will certainly be the best $15 you ever spent. Tickets and more info at http:// robinadler.com/ or email me off list for directions or questions. If you can't make it we'll play really loud so you can hear from where you live.... cheers, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:24:05 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: For The Roses Hi Jeannie, that's a tough one, I haven't been able to figure it out for sure all these years and am looking forward to all suggestions people on this list will come up with. Meanwhile, I think she might be referring to the Crucifixion - but then again, why should she feel like she was being crucified at that time? She had had tremendous success with Blue, after all. Yet, the song is about the downside of showbiz - "they toss around your latest golden egg, speculation, well, who's to know if the next one in the nest will glitter for them so" - so the lines you cite could also mean that she just got used to and was starting to enjoy her success and the admiration it earned her when the record company put pressure on her to keep on creating new success for them - bringing out the hammers, and the boards and the nails envokes in me an image of hard, physical work, like a carpenter's work. The band she was watching on tv "seemed so much confetti" - had not done serious work? Again, the image of Crucifixion might also have been in her mind for what might symbolically happen to her if she let the industry down, if she did not live up to what "they" expected of her or if she refused to live up (or down) to standards other than her own. In an interview I read she said that FTR was her first swan song, so she must have been fed up at the time, if for personal or professional reasons only she knows. Maybe both. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr jeannie Skickat: den 17 juli 2007 21:35 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Re: For The Roses I forgot the main question. (I canceled my appointment with the Argentine. He wanted to talk Greg Palast and other political stuff. That's why I'm still here. :P) Okay, when Joni mentions the boards and hammers and nails, do you think she's referring to the Crucifixion of the Christ? I wonder if she's saying something like she's also being crucified? That after all good deeds, they spit on you and kick you and tell you your a liar and a fake playing with the devil's bands? I need some sort of interpretation, please. jeannie NP: Chinito Chinito--Ry Cooder - --- jeannie wrote: > And they introduce some band > But they seem {sing} so much confetti > Looking at them over my TV set > Oh, the power and the glory > Just when your getting a taste for worship > They start bringing out the hammers > And the boards and the nails. ~Joni~ ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:58:55 -0600 From: Robert Procyk Subject: The JMDL... "1. I originally signed up in early '99, after seeing Joni live on her birthday in Atlanta. I had given her a stuffed tiger and roses and posted to tell my story. I was almost immediately told by someone who is no longer a member how I "should have known" to meet up with the jdml at this concert and that I was essentially an idiot for not meeting Joni with everyone else, and not a true fan because I missed the first song. The fact that this person is no longer here speaks for itself. I first met other list members when I attended Pazfest in New Orleans in 2000. An unforgettable experience!" LOL, oh I am sure I know who you are talking about Victor! The bad seeds and nut jobs may come and go, but the good ones can never seem to check out of Hotel California for long! I joined in in February 98, and after taking a hiatus or two, and 3 kids later, I can't quit this place. I joined just to get more Joni information - even though I was in Saskatchewan, there was nothing about Joni anywhere. Finally, I was so excited to meet actual people who knew what I was talking about! I still get excited talking about her music, what we love, what we don't love, and why. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:44:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: The JMDL... I can't imagine who it might be! Robert Procyk wrote: > "1. I originally signed up in early '99, after seeing Joni live on > her birthday in Atlanta. I had given her a stuffed tiger and roses > and posted to tell my story. I was almost immediately told by > someone who is no longer a member how I "should have known" to meet > up with the jdml at this concert and that I was essentially an idiot > for not meeting Joni with everyone else, and not a true fan because I > missed the first song. The fact that this person is no longer here > speaks for itself. I first met other list members when I attended > Pazfest in New Orleans in 2000. An unforgettable experience!" > > > > LOL, oh I am sure I know who you are talking about Victor! The bad seeds > and nut jobs may come and go, but the good ones can never seem to check > out of Hotel California for long! > > I joined in in February 98, and after taking a hiatus or two, and 3 kids > later, I can't quit this place. > > I joined just to get more Joni information - even though I was in > Saskatchewan, there was nothing about Joni anywhere. Finally, I was so > excited to meet actual people who knew what I was talking about! I still > get excited talking about her music, what we love, what we don't love, > and why. > > > > Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:57:42 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: The JMDL... I think I found the JMDL by stumbling upon it in 1997 or 1998? I know that I found it jonimitchell.com in 1997 because I was still at drama school and we would sneak into the receptionists office to go on the net but I didn't get a hotmail account til December 97 then a yahoo one the following year. I think I signed up when I got a semiperm temp job summer 1999 but I'd known about the jmdl from jonimitchell.com for a long time... I guess I wanted to join as I didn't know anyone else who liked Joni Mitchell. No one my age, no one anyone else's age. No one. I have found my family though. Much Joni Jamie Zoob On 17/07/07, Bob.Muller@fluor.com wrote: > <1. When did you sign up to this list/how long have you been here?> > > I stumbled onto JM.com in January '98, and when I saw that there was a > Joni Mitchell discussion List I figured it would be filled with > intelligent and passionate people - and I was right. Plus, I had thoughts > and questions about her work and had nobody to talk to about it. It was > amazing to discover people who instantly could relate to all of the > Joni-isms and other references to her work that the average music fan is > simply unaware of. > > <2. How did you find the list?> > > I used the search engine on AOL - I was an AOL subscriber at the time. > Like you, I chose the digest method but it was not long before I realized > that if you really want to participate in current discussions, the list > was the way to go. I'd read a digest and there would be 5-6 things I > wanted to respond to. > I like this format for discussion much better than a messageboard. > > Bob > > NP: David Baerwald, "The Got No Shotgun Hydra Head Octopus Blues" > ------------------------------------------------------------ > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain > proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are > hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, > distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon > this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please > contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #212 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)