From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #147 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Monday, May 14 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 147 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni at McCabes [jeannie ] Re: concert northern california Joni? [jeannie ] SV: Joni's lyrics ["Marion Leffler" ] Now some news about Stephen's friends: ["Kate Bennett" ] Mother's Day [Brian Gross ] Re: Mother's Day ["Happy The Man" ] Re: concert northern california Joni? [Motitan@aol.com] Re: SV: Joni's lyrics [Motitan@aol.com] Free Man In Paris ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Both Sides Now in Love Actually [Motitan@aol.com] SV: Both Sides Now in Love Actually ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: SV: Joni's lyrics [Motitan@aol.com] Re: SV: Joni's lyrics ["AJ" ] Re: SV: Joni's lyrics [Motitan@aol.com] Re: Joni's lyrics and... [Motitan@aol.com] Re: Joni's lyrics and...last thing... [Motitan@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 00:26:28 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: Joni at McCabes Joni's always so pretty. Kate Bennett wrote: Tom Rush's newsletter mentions that Joni showed up for his gig at McCabes Guitar in Santa Monica a week or so ago. So did Jackson Browne but on a different night. Kate Dreaming Dreamland, Jeannie jjj . - --------------------------------- Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 00:21:13 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie Subject: Re: concert northern california Joni? Just thinking about it, I feel flutters in my heart and my mind just kinda see-saws. jean Marianne Rizzo wrote: >She's a Magic White Woman, too- A private concert....hmmm....if we could >get 500 people to kick in $200 each that would be $100,000. She might do >it! But where to have it? (May I suggest Northern California?)...... How about it Joni? we're IN, you know. . we're aLL in. . . we might have to charge more . . . but how about an intimate concert? good idea Randy "that was just a dream some of us had." (?) _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the im Initiative now. Its free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07 - --------------------------------- Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:30:04 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Joni's lyrics Oh my - I do know relationships can be hard especially when you want to safeguard your independence and integrity. And yes, I guess I have experienced relationships where I couldn't. Maybe that's why those lines bother me so much...But after having ended a relationship like that I would hardly have called it love - which is what Joni does... Yes, I know, I am an unrealistic idealist. Still really don't know love at all. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Bob Muller Skickat: den 13 maj 2007 00:57 Till: Marion Leffler; 'list' Dmne: Re: Joni's lyrics Oh, I know quite well where it's from - it's one of my favorite Joni lyrics. To me it's not as confessional as it is universal. I mean, haven't you ever ended a relationship where you had to suppress parts of yourself either because the other person asked you too or because you couldn't feel like you could truly relax and be yourself around them? Matter of fact, I would submit that there is a degree of that in EVERY relationship. This is Joni's way of saying that now that the relationship has ended, she is able to be what she wants without having to suppress anything. I didn't understand much of Hejira when I first heard it, but I sure knew exactly what she was saying here. No cringes from me. Bob NP: Cowboy Junkies, "Handouts In The Rain" - --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 09:45:35 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Joni's lyrics Sorry about the weird layout of the email, I guess it has something to do with Outlook. Hope not everybody had difficulties reading it. While I did not mean to try and analyze Joni I do believe that poets draw on personal emotional experience or empathy. How the images they create are received and interpreted by readers is of course beyond their control. That should not keep us from discussing the impressions we get, should it? I also know from experience that texts I publish are not always read and understood in the way I intended them. They live their own lives and take on new meanings, which is okay with me. It keeps communication open and stimulates the mind. Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: AJ [mailto:ajfashion@att.net] Skickat: den 13 maj 2007 00:43 Till: Marion Leffler; 'list' Dmne: Re: Joni's lyrics - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Leffler" > > as long as I have been listening to Joni I have been bothered by some of > her > lyrics. Ill give you two examples that I listened to tonight. > > 1. why do you keep on trying to make a man out of me? Couldnt you just > love me - like you love cocaine? Cocaine head games...(From Ladiesman on > WTRF)) > > These lines really make me cringe. I find them very disturbing. Why should > any woman, let alone Joni, ask for so much trouble? How do you feel about > this image? > 2. So now I am returning to myself, these things that you and I > suppressed(From Hejira on Hejira) > > Also makes me cringe. And wonder what kind of men Joni has a habit of > falling in love with. Not only does he suppress her but she helps him > doing > it > I wont even start on Coyote > > I do understand and appreciate the ambiguous feelings Jonis lyrics > usually > express but some of her lines, like the above, describe love between a man > and a woman in ways that just make me shake my head and wonder. Chers > song > comes to mind  Looking for love in all the wrong places  or is it just > me > being naove? Or lucky, since I do not recognize myself in these lines? > > I would really like to learn how people on this list interpret these > lyrics! This email came through weird, with squares in place of apostrophes and maybe other things, so it was hard to read. But I will say that while I am not a lyricist, I am a poet, and would never want to be held personally accountable for things I've written in poems. Some of it is autobiographical, some of it's historical (ways I once felt, things I once went through), and much of it is some combination of the two above and _completely imagined_ circumstances. I have no idea of JM's writing process, but I do know that most of my poet friends tend to start a poem with an image and while much or some of a poem may be personal, very seldom is all of it. Also I remember a well-known critic in a review of my first book criticising the book because the speaker was too 'passive' too and prototypically female in some poems. Sometimes writers reflect reality--their personal reality or the reality they perceive around them. Finally I think that complicated people tend to get in complicated relationships. A lot of art gets made out of obsession and grief and difficult relationships. Just last week I got a lit mag in the mail with a review of my most recent book. The review was very positive about the book as a book, but had a completely different take than I did as the writer (or than Publishers Weekly did for that matter). - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 00:51:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Now some news about Stephen's friends: Hi Patti, I've heard he is out & about. Pneumonia is nothing to take lightly. Glad to see he's booked some shows. Not sure I'll make the show in SM but perhaps Lesli & Kakki will (they are so much closer to that hood). 1. David Crosby must have recovered from his pneumonia, which forced the cancellation of the C & N tour this fall (which Monica and I both had tickets for, in separate states) because he is playing with Jackson Browne on June 2 in Santa Monica, California (Oh, but California.....). Details are at jacksonbrowne.com. Kate Bennett, surely you will be there, non? And you know.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 00:59:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni's lyrics Well said Bob. It is also one of my favorite lines that she has ever written. Oh, I know quite well where it's from - it's one of my favorite Joni lyrics. To me it's not as confessional as it is universal. I mean, haven't you ever ended a relationship where you had to suppress parts of yourself either because the other person asked you too or because you couldn't feel like you could truly relax and be yourself around them? Matter of fact, I would submit that there is a degree of that in EVERY relationship.< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 02:01:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Mother's Day Happy Mother's Day Joni and all the women here on the JMDL. Enjoy your special day! np: the early birds singing outside my apartment - ----------------------------------------------------------- Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often. And usually for the same reasons. - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 06:44:45 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Mother's Day Just want to echo Brian's salutations. Thanks for being Mother's, may sunshine spill into your rooms, may the frangrace of spring fill the air around you and may your children treat you as you are a gift. Happy Mother's Day....especially that one of mine in So. Cal. the first time in four years I'm not with her. Peace, Craig - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Gross" To: Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 4:01 AM Subject: Mother's Day > Happy Mother's Day Joni > and all the women here on the JMDL. > > Enjoy your special day! > > np: the early birds singing outside my apartment > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often. > And usually for the same reasons. > ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:07:03 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: concert northern california Joni? Hell, I'd sell my soul to go to this "intimate" concert. So how about somebody get on this and give Joni the offer, eh? Tell her she can play whatever the hell she wants. - -Monika "Rock and roll rang sweet as victory." ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:19:10 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: Joni's lyrics How the images they create are received and interpreted by readers is of course beyond their control. That should not keep us from discussing the impressions we get, should it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -------------------------------- Absolutely not. Interpretation is a wonderful thing. Keep on discussing! That's what everybody's here for right? And as far as the lyrics go, hmm they don't disturb so much as sometimes I wonder why Joni would get involved with so-and-so (whoever she could be talking about) or put up with it. And then you realize when thinking about relationships, whether your own or a friend's or someone you know, how much people do put up with in them. Love is a crazy thing. It makes you walk blind with your hands tied behind your back if you're not careful (atleast so I think from my observations of those who say they are in love). So keeping something suppressed in a relationship is not surprising as much as it is universal as someone stated on the list. Now just because it is universal doesn't mean its right. How many times has a majority been on the wrong side? That is rhetorical as the list would have no end. And should you share everything and be who you really are in a relationship? I'd like to think if you find that "ideal" person (if that exists, I am not so certain) you would be able to. But just keep in mind of how many "wrong" people you'll probably have to go through or have gone through to find that right person (if he/she so exists...I'm not so keen on this whole soulmate idea). Of course then you have to remember, not everything nor every line is a factual account of anything. The work and the person can be separated but as we know Joni often writes what she knows---in her own blood as she always says. But this is the wonderful thing about Joni's lyrics. There's so much room for interpretation and discussion. You definitely can't say that about a majority of artists/bands. - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:38:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Free Man In Paris SONG OF THE WEEK Sufjan Stevens Song: Free Man in Paris Album: A Tribute to Joni Mitchell (Nonesuch) In stores: Now Why we care: Supposedly based on an overheard diatribe by music mogul David Geffen, who longed for his young days as a Parisian slouch, Mitchell's working-man's lament is reworked here by an indie kid with Next Big Thing stamped on his forehead. Why we like it: Playing Wurlitzer, piano and electric guitar, Detroit's Stevens turns the song into a daydream fantasy, delivering the lines about 9-to-5 drudgery with a spacey whisper - and then cueing both a string section and a horn trio for the figurative romp "down the Champs-Elysees." Reminds us of: When's the next flight to Charles de Gaulle? Song grade: B+ Sean Daly can be reached at sdaly@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8467. His Pop Life blog is at blogs.tampabay.com/popmusic. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 11:55:51 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Both Sides Now in Love Actually Yesterday I noticed that the film "Love Actually" was on tv and I decided to watch it for a few reasons: A. I remember reading on jonimitchell.com that there were some Joni references in it as well as the orchestral BSN plays in it B. Hugh Grant is very charismatic, sort of charming despite everything C. I was bored Has anyone seen this film? Emma Thompson's character gets poked fun at by her husband for listening to Joni Mitchell. But it's great what she says about Joni and her music. She says, "she taught me how to feel." Right on Emma (I can't remember her character's name nor anyone's name really...I started watching an hour into it, not fully attentive and with the number of characters they had...well sheesh). And then later on in the film her husband gets her "Both Sides Now" for Christmas and tells her it's to continue her "emotional education." And then Emma's character goes into her room with BSN playing behind her crying because...well her husband is an ass and had bought a necklace for his secretary so...things weren't so smooth between them. But I loved that "she taught me how to feel" bit. - -Monika, someone who can rarely ever write a post in just a few words no matter how meaningless it is ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 18:18:09 +0200 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: SV: Both Sides Now in Love Actually Hi Monika,I've seen Love Actually quite recently, too. Didn't care that much for the plot but the scene where Emma T (have forgotten the character's name, too!) says that Joni taught her how to feel stands out in my mind. And when she gets Both sides, now for Christmas and cries because she thought she was getting the necklace (which she had discovered in her husband's pocket after he bought it for his secretary) is touching - especially when you, the viewer, know that he really did not mean that much by it, his secretary had more or less bullied him into it. So things aren't smooth between the couple but it is a misunderstanding that brings the husband's lack of understanding his wife's feelings out in the open and makes her leave him. Sad. - I can't help but compare these scenes to the divorced couple dancing to Both sides, now (same version as in Love Actually) in Life as a house. In that scene you get the feeling that they really have come to accept and respect, even love, each other and learnt from living every day. - Isn't it fabulous that Joni's music can be used to underline such diverse meanings? Marion - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-onlyjoni@smoe.org] Fvr Motitan@aol.com Skickat: den 13 maj 2007 17:56 Till: joni@smoe.org Dmne: Both Sides Now in Love Actually Yesterday I noticed that the film "Love Actually" was on tv and I decided to watch it for a few reasons: A. I remember reading on jonimitchell.com that there were some Joni references in it as well as the orchestral BSN plays in it B. Hugh Grant is very charismatic, sort of charming despite everything C. I was bored Has anyone seen this film? Emma Thompson's character gets poked fun at by her husband for listening to Joni Mitchell. But it's great what she says about Joni and her music. She says, "she taught me how to feel." Right on Emma (I can't remember her character's name nor anyone's name really...I started watching an hour into it, not fully attentive and with the number of characters they had...well sheesh). And then later on in the film her husband gets her "Both Sides Now" for Christmas and tells her it's to continue her "emotional education." And then Emma's character goes into her room with BSN playing behind her crying because...well her husband is an ass and had bought a necklace for his secretary so...things weren't so smooth between them. But I loved that "she taught me how to feel" bit. - -Monika, someone who can rarely ever write a post in just a few words no matter how meaningless it is ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:30:35 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Crosby & Nash tour/Neil Young Alright! I got my tickets to see C&N October 7th in Cleveland, OH. I still actually have my ticket from the cancelled show in an envelope in my room. It will be nice to see the two of them away from their other half (though I love Neil Young and am a fan of Stephen Stills) as it'll be very intimate and will shine heavily on their beautiful harmony. I still remember how nice Graham Nash was when I saw him on the CSNY tour this past summer. After every song he was waving and saying "thank you" to the audience. He looked so grateful to be up there. Kudos to Graham for being such a good guy it seems. Now if only Neil would tour solo.....or grab Crazy Horse along? I have read rumors about a European tour with Crazy Horse. A Crazy Horse album is due anyday now, isn't it? - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 16:32:15 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: SV: Joni's lyrics - ----- Original Message ----- From: > How the images they create are received and interpreted by readers is of > course beyond their control. That > should not keep us from discussing the impressions we get, should it? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -------------------------------- > Absolutely not. Interpretation is a wonderful thing. Keep on > discussing! That's what everybody's here for right? And as far as the > lyrics go, hmm > they don't disturb so much as sometimes I wonder why Joni would get > involved > with so-and-so (whoever she could be talking about) or put up with it. > And > then you realize when thinking about relationships, whether your own or a > friend's or someone you know, how much people do put up with in them. > Love is a > crazy thing. It makes you walk blind with your hands tied behind your > back > if you're not careful (atleast so I think from my observations of those > who > say they are in love). So keeping something suppressed in a relationship > is > not surprising as much as it is universal as someone stated on the list. > Now > just because it is universal doesn't mean its right. How many times has > a > majority been on the wrong side? That is rhetorical as the list would > have no > end. And should you share everything and be who you really are in a > relationship? I'd like to think if you find that "ideal" person (if that > exists, I > am not so certain) you would be able to. But just keep in mind of how > many > "wrong" people you'll probably have to go through or have gone through to > find > that right person (if he/she so exists...I'm not so keen on this whole > soulmate idea). > Of course then you have to remember, not everything nor every line is > a > factual account of anything. The work and the person can be separated > but as > we know Joni often writes what she knows---in her own blood as she always > says. There's a very good book on psychoanalysis from the late 1970s (whose title I can't remember at the moment) where the writer makes the distinction between "factual" truth and "poetic" or "artistic" truth. Her lyrics may be written in blood, but that doesn't mean they are factual or a report on her actual life. Most great art is written in blood--one easy example is A La Recherce de le Temps Perdu (sp?) where the narrator is so terribly in love with Gilberte. Proust wrote as completely out of his own life as any writer I've ever read, and yet he used his feelings for a young man (or men) in order to portray his narrator's feelings for a young woman. I think I may be missing what you're asking here. I mean, if you read my last book you'd think I was in deep grief for one specific person (and in fact one reviewer took it that way). In fact I used elegies as a way of expressing my feelings about several losses as well as another terrible thing going in my life. Those poems were written in blood. And yet the "factual" things you would end up knowing about me are not the "real" truth of the book. You all know a lot more about JM than I do, but I do think the artistic process is a lot more complicated than beautifully articulating the current events of one's life. I don't believe there's a single relationship on the planet where there's not something suppressed. And I'm not sure that's a bad thing. No one can be everything to someone else. That's why we have romantic partners; intimate friends; work friends; Joni friends (!); and why some of us are driven to express things in music or writing or painting, etc. - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 22:42:29 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: Joni's lyrics You all know a lot more about JM than I do, but I do think the artistic process is a lot more complicated than beautifully articulating the current events of one's life - -------------------------------------------- Oh absolutely. If the artistic process was so easy we'd all be artists in every form. I was just saying that you can separate the work from the person but a part of the person always goes into the work. Now how it goes in there is what differs. Is it real? Is it exaggerated? Is it pure fantasy? Is it his/her fears? Is it something someone observed? It still comes from the person's mind and whatever they mean is something that no one really knows (often the person who wrote it doesn't even know). I still think that counts even if it is not factual which often it is not. I mean when Joni sings, "I am on a lonely road and I am traveling." You could wonder, does she really feel that way? Did she just feel that way for a bit of time? But wasn't she always almost in a relationship around that time? Does she feel lonely on a day-to-day basis? Is that just a "speaker" in the song entirely not herself? I mean you could ask all those questions but at the end of the day, why bother thinking whether it's true or not as far as Joni is concerned? It is a damn good song if I do say so and it's open for intepretation. Joni's songs have a way of, sure maybe being about her and her feelings, (maybe some at times and some not so much, who really knows?) but more importantly have a way of speaking to YOU. You could listen to those lines and relate. You can listen to a Joni Mitchell song and know exactly what it is about to YOU. Jesus, how many times have you listened to a song of Joni's and said, "me too." I can tell you that on the first listen to the song "River" I agreed on the overall sentiment. Hell, I still relate now after probably a million listens. I love that about Joni's music. - -Monika I wish I had a river I could skate away on. I get that man! ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:57:45 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: SV: Joni's lyrics ----- Original Message ----- From: Motitan@aol.com To: ajfashion@att.net ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:42 PM Subject: Re: SV: Joni's lyrics You all know a lot more about JM than I do, but I do think the artistic process is a lot more complicated than beautifully articulating the current events of one's life -------------------------------------------- Oh absolutely. If the artistic process was so easy we'd all be artists in every form. I was just saying that you can separate the work from the person but a part of the person always goes into the work. Now how it goes in there is what differs. Is it real? Yes. Is it exaggerated? Yes. Is it pure fantasy? Yes. Is it his/her fears? Yes. Is it something someone observed? Yes. It still comes from the person's mind and whatever they mean is something that no one really knows (often the person who wrote it doesn't even know). I still think that counts even if it is not factual which often it is not. I mean when Joni sings, "I am on a lonely road and I am traveling." You could wonder, does she really feel that way? Did she just feel that way for a bit of time? But wasn't she always almost in a relationship around that time? Does she feel lonely on a day-to-day basis? Is that just a "speaker" in the song entirely not herself? I mean you could ask all those questions but at the end of the day, why bother thinking whether it's true or not as far as Joni is concerned? It is a damn good song if I do say so and it's open for intepretation. Joni's songs have a way of, sure maybe being about her and her feelings, (maybe some at times and some not so much, who really knows?) but more importantly have a way of speaking to YOU. You could listen to those lines and relate. You can listen to a Joni Mitchell song and know exactly what it is about to YOU. Jesus, how many times have you listened to a song of Joni's and said, "me too." I can tell you that on the first listen to the song "River" I agreed on the overall sentiment. Hell, I still relate now after probably a million listens. I love that about Joni's music. -Monika I wish I had a river I could skate away on. I get that man! - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - You can be in a long-term and loving relationship and still feel "you are on a lonely road and traveling traveling." I mean, for some of us, particularly the Camus/Pascal reading crowd, it's kind of a fundamental fact of life. In that song she is the "speaker". She may or may not feel that way or have felt that way when she wrote the lines. I think you're asking the wrong questions here. If a JM song speaks to something deep within you, in the way great art often manages to articulate something within us we are unable to articulate until we read/see/hear it, then I think the questions of why or how the artist created it are interesting but ultimately unimportant. Frost used to claim he never made drafts of his poems, but in fact they were highly highly crafted and drafted and re-drafted (he destroyed the drafts). His poetry is one of the great achievements of the 20 century. (And too often dismissed, because he's accessible to almost everyone and yet he is as great, and dark, a poet as TS Eliot, if you read him with care and knowledge.) Frost was a fairly miserable human being. And part of the toll of that misery was visited upon his children, many of whom came to unhappy ends. The thing is, I think one can get a glimpse of JM's soul, or her essential self, from her music and lyrics, but I think it's a fairly futile and ultimately worthless enterprise to try to figure out if she wrote Willie about Stephen Stills or who she was involved with when she wrote Sex Kills. Artists are notoriously nad interpreters of their own work. JMO, AJ, out of her JM league on this list - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - See what's free at AOL.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:15:48 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: SV: Joni's lyrics In that song she is the "speaker". She may or may not feel that way or have felt that way when she wrote the lines. - ----------------------- Well sure for that song she was the speaker. I was just giving an example of questions you could wonder but ultimately in the end, why would you even? Sometimes I wonder what the writers really mean. It's more than that yet it is still a part of the person. I mean Joni could be writing about love or she could be writing about trees for what its worth but it is still a part of her. I am not disagreeing here or trying to say that you need to match up what she wrote to what she did in her life. That's not what I mean. I hope I didn't sound that way. The thing is, I think one can get a glimpse of JM's soul, or her essential self, from her music and lyrics, but I think it's a fairly futile and ultimately worthless enterprise to try to figure out if she wrote Willie about Stephen Stills or who she was involved with when she wrote Sex Kills - ------- Right. That's what I'm saying here. I sometimes wonder what Joni really means in her words but not to the point of is it about him or him or that or that. I sometimes wonder about the actual creative process and the state of her mind at that point when whatever song was written. I'm not trying to be nosy or dive into gossip as much as I am curious. Is it a catharsis for her at the time? Is it just a story? Just details more about the actual creative emotional involvement rather than the facts. I don't care if she wrote ____ (fill in the blank) when she was with Graham Nash. I'm not going to mix and match lines to fit her relationships although she has admitted some songs are about certain people and so forth. I'm more interested in hearing how a song came about and what lines came into her head and what she was doing at the time to maybe spur it on or maybe if she was doing absolutely nothing to spur it on and it just came from pure inspiration. When I listen to "A Case Of You" for instance I'm not wondering who it's about as much as how did she come up with the song? What was she thinking? I have questions like THAT in mind. But those questions have no answers unless Joni herself talks about the song in an interview (which some songs she does or in some concerts she'll tell a story of how she wrote the song before playing it--I always find that absolutely fascinating). Maybe that's just me but still. All in all, in the end, I nod my head in agreement and can relate to some songs. Others I can see different people relating to or can just sing along with them or can find them brilliant or just to be a fine, fine song. That's all man. - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 23:42:29 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's lyrics and... I forgot to mention that sure, the process of creating a song is not important to liking the song, or even understanding the song. You could listen a song written by someone you know nothing about and love it and understand it and appreciate it, etc. Same thing goes for a book or whatever medium you are talking about. However, for whatever reason, I am curious about these things. Not juicy details, no, but I'm interested in the inner workings of how the song came to life yes. But like I said maybe that's just me. I'm always interested in the mind and creativity and things of that nature. I love Psychology and art and find people fascinating in how they think and differ. I'm also a songwriter as well so maybe that comes into play. Yet I don't obsess about all that whenever I listen to Joni's songs. That's not necessary but I can't help but be curious. And you're right that a good song needs to strike you within. Joni's songs do but it's just in my nature to wonder these things I guess. - -Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:18:58 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's lyrics and...last thing... Before I forget....and then I swear I will shut up about all this. You see I'm interested in what Joni means in these songs she writes but I'm also interested in what YOU think they mean or what they do for YOU (everyone on this list or anybody at all who listens to Joni or anybody who listens to anyone I like). I'm interested in what Joni thinks because I don't know what she thinks (oh how the unknown kills me) but I care. And I'm interested in what YOU think because I don't know what you think. I know what I think but that doesn't concern me. I don't care what I think because I already know what I think. Wow, have you ever seen the word "think" be used so many times? I hope that made sense. It's getting past midnight here and I just had three cups of tea so I'm a bit loopy to say the least. I myself joined this list because I wanted to hear from fellow Joni fans. I also like to communicate my own experience with her music but not even a fraction of how I like to hear others' stories of what songs mean to them or what albums they like/dislike or stories of attending a Joni concert or even meeting Joni. It's also a vehicle for knowledge to be here on this list as well. And I like to read articles about Joni because I like to be well informed on the topics that interest me. You see, I know a great deal about very specific things. And I like to read interviews with Joni because I like to hear what she has to say about her music, about life, love, religion, whatever it may be.....doesn't mean I'm going to convert to Joni-ism or will be distracted by this when listening to her music but I have an appetite for knowledge. I'm always hungry for it. That goes the same for her songs. But I'll never be like (and would advise others to not be like) "well Joni said this song is about...._______ [fill in the blank} and that's the end of that" or "she was doing this in this year so this must be about that." Talk about a drag! Listen to the song, see what it means to you (and if it grabs you in any way, well then Joni has done her job)---THAT is most important. Everything else is just secondary to me but it still exists for better or for worse. Shutting up now, Monika ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #147 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)