From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #90 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, March 24 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 090 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re:joni tribute [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: Part of Joni's problem? [Em ] Dave Carter's first hero of songwriting [Em ] Re: Part of Joni's problem? ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] RE: Joni's Problem ["Christopher Treacy" ] Re: Part of Joni's problem? ["Randy Remote" ] Forest Hills '79 remastered ["Randy Remote" ] Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' ["Lori Fye" ] Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Part of Joni's problem? ["Randy Remote" ] Re: Part of Joni's problem? ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' ["Lori Fye" ] Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' [Em ] Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' [Victor Johnson ] Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' [Bob Muller ] Joni for the picnic [Garret ] Re: Aussies I'd Like To Hear Cover Joni Songs [Victor Johnson ] Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' ["AJ" ] Joni's profile, something fun [Motitan@aol.com] RE : Re: Aussies I'd Like To Hear Cover Joni Songs [Joseph Palis Subject: Re:joni tribute Thanks Ron for the link. You'll also find k.d. land's Help Me if you click through the tracks long enough. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 04:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? my hunch is that its worked against her at times - perhaps even in a general sense. But with Joni, I think maybe from time to time, her woman-ness (especially since she is so gorgeous) has worked in her favor as well. I mean, I'd look twice. But I can see the other side to it as well. For instance, when she first played C&S at the studio in front of all those people and Dylan fell asleep, what I read is that Dylan and his band of guys were there recording his "Planet Waves" (not his best) and that that seemed more important somehow and was payed attention to, while the true GEM, C&S, was...well, fallen asleep to. Can't help but think that his having his merry band of dudes around had something to do with it. I think some guys find strength in being in bands/teams/clusters/tribes of other like-minded guys....and that may have worked against Joni in many instances. my .02, so earleyyyy in the morning.... Em - --- Motitan@aol.com wrote: > In one of the recent articles it is stated that Joni thinks or some > people > generally think that Joni doesn't get enough due credit due to the > fact that > she is a woman in a man's world (and really more in particular a > female > recording artist in a male dominated music world). I mean most of > the people who > get a good amount of credit are in fact male artists/bands. > Beatles, Stones, > Zeppelin, Dylan, Bowie, etc etc. Sure there are a few standout > females who > have stood out--Janis Joplin, Stevie Nicks, etc etc. So do you > think this is > part of the problem? Are we all just living in a man's world, > especially as > far as music is concerned? I mean, do you think the fact that Joni > is a > female automatically turns some guys away (I stress some as there > are many males > on this list :) ) and doesn't give her as much credit as if she > were a > male recording artist? > Just pondering aloud here....and wondering everyone's opinion. > And of > course Joni does get some credit but I don't think it's enough man. > Atleast > not yet. > -Monika > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to > everyone. > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > http://www.myspace.com/emzdogz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 04:53:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Dave Carter's first hero of songwriting look who was at the top of Dave Carters list! I really never knew this, til a couple days ago. Cool! and it makes sense. "My first hero of songwriting was Joni Mitchell. IUm very interested in pop psychedelia. I love the Beatles TRubber SoulU through TMagical Mystery TourU period, and I love the second Dukes of Stratosphere albumQand also the country psychedelia of Lee Hazelwood and a lot of the stuff he did with Nancy Sinatra. I also like Leonard Cohen, Emmylou Harris, Sean Colvin, Buck Owens, Miles Davis, Dwight Yokum, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zandt, Guy Clark, Duke Ellington, George Gershwin and Waylon Jennings. Also the songwriting and cataloging of Robert Burns. Some poets I love are e.e. cummings, William Blake, Robert Duncan and Wallace Stevens." Cormac MecCarthy is a favorite novelist. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:33:43 +0000 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? well, it's true! That incident where they listened to C&S (I think it was at Geffen's house where Joni was staying) is just indicative of how people (the non listeners) take Joni's music. It doesn't strike them at the first instance, they just just dismiss it... I met someone at a party who was another Joni fan (male, straight, a 'lad bloke type person) who was introduced to me by a friend who knew I liked Joni, and I had the first 'I Love Joni' conversation at a party. And this is after near 20 years of loving Joni... He said to me that people just don't get it. Joni once said in an interview that it's the 'awk', you know her story about how the penguins know their partners by their 'awk', if it strikes a chord in them they knew who their partners were out of the thousands of penguins on that iceberg. We like Joni's awk. Most people don't. There are those that get into her by her musicianship and by the people she plays with, the Pastorius', the Methenys' the Colaiutas, and then they realise that she's got something special to say and says it in a special beautiful way. I am not too up on musicianship but I can appreciate he doesn't write music with many 'traditional' rules as she makes up her own rules. I guess that Joni feels that she is a woman in a male dominated industry (yes, though women can have hits but please, to have them, do they have to show their ass and tits? Kylie Minogue please sit down. Women are still having to appeal to men sexually in the music industry, otherwise, they are just relegated to 'chick music'. ) They don't hear the quality that is there, and ignore the fact that Joni hasn't really showed us her tits. (Her ass maybe, but even Geffen made her change the For The Roses cover.And that was for the better, It might've got her some attention but I don't think I could've taken it seriously) Anyway, thats my tuppence. Much Joni Jamie Zoob On 23/03/07, Em wrote: > my hunch is that its worked against her at times - perhaps even in a > general sense. But with Joni, I think maybe from time to time, her > woman-ness (especially since she is so gorgeous) has worked in her > favor as well. > I mean, I'd look twice. > But I can see the other side to it as well. > > For instance, when she first played C&S at the studio in front of all > those people and Dylan fell asleep, what I read is that Dylan and his > band of guys were there recording his "Planet Waves" (not his best) > and that that seemed more important somehow and was payed attention to, > while the true GEM, C&S, was...well, fallen asleep to. > Can't help but think that his having his merry band of dudes around had > something to do with it. > I think some guys find strength in being in bands/teams/clusters/tribes > of other like-minded guys....and that may have worked against Joni in > many instances. > > my .02, so earleyyyy in the morning.... > Em > > --- Motitan@aol.com wrote: > > > In one of the recent articles it is stated that Joni thinks or some > > people > > generally think that Joni doesn't get enough due credit due to the > > fact that > > she is a woman in a man's world (and really more in particular a > > female > > recording artist in a male dominated music world). I mean most of > > the people who > > get a good amount of credit are in fact male artists/bands. > > Beatles, Stones, > > Zeppelin, Dylan, Bowie, etc etc. Sure there are a few standout > > females who > > have stood out--Janis Joplin, Stevie Nicks, etc etc. So do you > > think this is > > part of the problem? Are we all just living in a man's world, > > especially as > > far as music is concerned? I mean, do you think the fact that Joni > > is a > > female automatically turns some guys away (I stress some as there > > are many males > > on this list :) ) and doesn't give her as much credit as if she > > were a > > male recording artist? > > Just pondering aloud here....and wondering everyone's opinion. > > And of > > course Joni does get some credit but I don't think it's enough man. > > Atleast > > not yet. > > -Monika > > > > > > > > ************************************** AOL now offers free email to > > everyone. > > Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. > > > > > http://www.myspace.com/emzdogz > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 http://www.jamiezubairi.co.uk Facebook me! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:39:23 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's still around? Victor wrote: > Interesting question.B I know recently, I've mentioned Joni MitchellB > to some friends and they say, "You mean she's still around?" as ifB > she disappeared a long time ago.B > You must also remember, many people go through life with music as stictly a background sound to them. They may have listened to Joni (or any one of hundreds or thousands of artists) and enjoyed them, at the time, but years laterb unless that artist is still in the limelightbthey have all but forgotten them. For that matter, there are a lot of people who listen to CURRENT musicband may like some of it a lotbbut never look past that immediate moment... they may not even know who they're listening to and don't bother to find out more about the artist (what else they've done, etc.) It's only because people like us love music so much that we get passionate about an artist we really appreciate, like Joni. Kenny B ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:57:44 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? I guess my perspective is limited, reading as I do dozens of daily posting which proclaim the extraordinary quality of JM's work. It's a bit difficult to imagine a huge surrounding universe in which she is not appreciated as she deserves. DAVID LAHM ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:39:06 +0100 (CET) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' I agree with the 'awk' phenomenon that inspires Joni fans to spot each other 'across a crowded a room'. It really is a cathartic moment to meet someone not just in a chaotic party who likes the Joni the way we do -- so okay, we appreciate Joni's genius in various scales. But once you both instantly recognize each other as not just casual listeners but a fan, you can't help talking about Joni. It is funny how it usually kinda starts (at least for me) casually then both of you instantly realize how well-versed you both are about Joni's catalogue, parts of her life, even the time she made it to Time Magazine when she reunited with Kilauren, etc. The conversations are always lively and you learn a todbit or two about Joni you haven't even known before. I met two women in campus who are huge fans of Joni but with different results. One is a former employee of a department who adorned her office with Joni LPs (FTR, DJRD, Blue) hung where pictures are supposed to. I was asking something related to a class I added and when I espied them, I said "who is Joni's fan in this office"? When she answered it was her, we talked and talked. Her parents made her listen and appreciate Joni because her dad gave her mom the LP of STAS when they were dating. I invited her to join the List and gave her the URL address. I even invited her to come and meet Bob M who was coming to see me then (this was 2003) that weekend. She said she'll make it but didn't. I gave her the CD that Bob M. would have given her had she appeared in that weekend's little tete-a-tete and she apologized for not being there. I remembered giving her Bob's email addy so she can at least thank him for the CD, but I don't know if she did -- I forgot to ask Bob then. But despite that eventual non-connection, she and I really had a long conversation whenI was in her office where you didn't realize that an hour passed because there is so much to talk about Joni and how her music resonated to us. The other girl is an undergrad who is also a DJ in the station. She is very sweet and she was the one who played a Joni song when we were being oriented and made to practice as DJs in the station for the first time. She has played more Joni during her show than I did when I looked at her weekly playlists. She is fascinated by the early and mid-period Joni (just before CMIARS) and seems to have connected so stringly with the lyrics and melody of our Lady of Duality. Now when we see each other in the library or bookstore or cafe around campus, we talk about how the classes she is taking are slowly changing her life and my own career's seeming trajectory. But all these long if sporadic talks came about because Joni (and the awk phenomenon) formed a bond between us that immediately made us as friends who seem to understand each other in some astral levels. I have not met that many Joni fans who are as crazy as we are. The last time I met one (prof), he said he *used* to like Joni (he emphasized the past tense for his like for Joni) until she lost her with HOSL and Mingus (funny that HOSL remains my favorite album) but I am guessing that he must have followed Joni's musical odyssey only to find her almost an aberration when she changed musical style, challenged herself artistically and just basically cudgeled in one broad (maybe unintentional) stroke her image as a folk singer. Joseph in Chapel Hill (unusually chatty when I should be preparing for the class I am teaching) np: Bill Henderson - "I Go For That" Jamie's Box of Paints a icrit : well, it's true! That incident where they listened to C&S (I think it was at Geffen's house where Joni was staying) is just indicative of how people (the non listeners) take Joni's music. It doesn't strike them at the first instance, they just just dismiss it... I met someone at a party who was another Joni fan (male, straight, a 'lad bloke type person) who was introduced to me by a friend who knew I liked Joni, and I had the first 'I Love Joni' conversation at a party. And this is after near 20 years of loving Joni... He said to me that people just don't get it. Joni once said in an interview that it's the 'awk', you know her story about how the penguins know their partners by their 'awk', if it strikes a chord in them they knew who their partners were out of the thousands of penguins on that iceberg. We like Joni's awk. Most people don't. There are those that get into her by her musicianship and by the people she plays with, the Pastorius', the Methenys' the Colaiutas, and then they realise that she's got something special to say and says it in a special beautiful way. I am not too up on musicianship but I can appreciate he doesn't write music with many 'traditional' rules as she makes up her own rules. - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 08:14:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' I feel like getting a tattoo now that says "Joni-Awk", or some such. No sh_t. I might do it. Today. In Blue. Em Ps I'll never forget when Lori and I "awked" in Arizona ;) - --- Joseph Palis wrote: > I agree with the 'awk' phenomenon that inspires Joni fans to spot > each other 'across a crowded a room'. It really is a cathartic moment > to meet someone not just in a chaotic party who likes the Joni the > way we do -- http://www.myspace.com/emzdogz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:28:22 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: RE: Joni's Problem Well, I remember playing "The Priest" for a friend of mine back in high school, and his reaction was - "yes, the guitar part is cool...but it's so dramatic... and so FEMININE" I think that people who shy away from JM's music because of her gender "go to music" for different reasons than most of us on this list. Similarly, I have another friend who doesn't like female singing voices because they don't sound particularly empowered to him. What that says about his overall character we need not speculate here (I'm well aware, believe me), but - there's no convincing him otherwise. It's an INGRAINED perception. Furthermore, when he's forced to listen to a woman sing her songs, it irritates him. Too thinky. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:46:57 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? From: > In one of the recent articles it is stated that Joni thinks or some > people > generally think that Joni doesn't get enough due credit due to the fact > that > she is a woman I think her level of fame/credit/recognition has more to do with not having hits. When you think of it that way, there are plenty of male artists who are comparable. Deep Purple, John Stewart, Danny O'Keefe...are a few that have put out quality work without much widespread recognition. Joni lives in Beverly Hills (well, Bel Aire), and enjoys widespread worship by other artists, has a healthy revenue stream from her albums and songs.... Maybe she was expecting to be crowned queen of rock and roll or something, just because she really was the best, but, hey, what are you gonna do? Britney, Christina, Pink, Stevie Nicks, Madonna...they are all women, they've all been big stars, because they have had lots of hits (and because of playing the sex card, of course, and being young). Non airheads like Tori Amos, Sara McLaughlin and Fiona Apple have done pretty well, too. Bob Dylan has had lots of hits. Leonard Cohen hasn't. Therefore Cohen has cult status similar to Joni's, while Bob has star status. For Joni to say she was crucified or whatever for Mingus, ignored, etc is to overlook the basic fact that these records didn't sell. I think the record companies tried-she was all over MTV when DED came out. They tend to lose interest (literally) when the bucks aren't rolling in. I think ageism is far more rampant in the music industry than sexism, institutionally, anyway. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:05:35 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Forest Hills '79 remastered Laurent pointed this show out from dimeadozen, and I was quite impressed with it, but it needed help-first of all, the speed was way too fast-I've corrected that, put the track breaks in better places, and, I think, improved the sound. This is a very enjoyable show because it is pretty good quality. It still has some hiss, but better that than some noise reduction that makes it sound dull, IMO. Most of the show is on the first disc. If you don't have the ability to download, contact me off-list and I will get it to you. BTW you will see two small, red "download now" links in the middle of the page, choose the top one. Here is a 2 min sample if you are not sure: http://fileho.com/download/0cf285805108/2minSampler.rar.html Disc 1: http://fileho.com/download/b83c49308860/Disc-1-mp3.rar.html Disc 2: http://fileho.com/download/5d416e358128/Disc-2-mp3s.rar.html Artwork: http://fileho.com/download/907a32684835/JoniFHillsGraphics.rar.html ps thanks to Moni for pointing me to FileHo. Enjoy. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:03:25 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' > I feel like getting a tattoo now that says "Joni-Awk", or some such. > No sh_t. I might do it. > Today. In Blue. Okay, that would ROCK, Em! I know you're sitting at work right now, drawing this tattoo. Share it when you've got it, will ya? > Ps I'll never forget when Lori and I "awked" in Arizona Neither will I! We were standing outside a motorcycle rental place, had JUST met, and I was wearing my "Joni Mitchell Internet Community" denim shirt. We definitely "awked," and eventually ... you wound up here! : D I've always sensed and believed there is a "specialness" about people who can't seem to help but allow Joni's music & lyrics to get under their skin, who "get it." Maybe it's pretentious for me to think that, but think it I do. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:39:11 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? Randy wrote: 'just because she really was the best,' - --With all defrerence to Randy, just exactly what was she the best of? Best singer? Perhaps Best songwriter? Perhaps Best entertainer? Perhaps Most enlightened? Perhaps Important thing to remember is that anything she has thought or written has been thought before. I find most important to realize is that we all have our own genius and she is an expert at evoking what is already inside each of us. One thing is for sure. She is the best Joni Mitchell, from Canada. Perhaps Et if she has any so called problems I would find that she is the only one that could distinguish whether or not they are so. Not us, not me. I thank her for her music, expect nothing else from her. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:48:29 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' Lori wrote: > > I've always sensed and believed there is a "specialness" about people who > can't seem to help but allow Joni's music & lyrics to get under their > skin, > who "get it." - --I used to think the same way. Now I realize that maybe it is us that 'don't get it.' Whatever 'it' is. Putting ones self on a pedestal for such is nothing less than silly (to me) so I got down and stopped. I hate rap music. Find it awful. But on the other hand it evokes in/from some what Joni evokes in us. Maybe they 'get it.' Have an old friend. For years I wondered why she kept herself inside the box I thought she was in. She never left it. Finally dawned on me that maybe she liked it there, knew it was the place for her, or maybe, just maybe, I was inside my own box. So I opened it and am burning it in the fireplace now. mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:48:47 -0700 (PDT) From: jeannie garza kabirpour Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? Hi Randy and All, I don't recall Joni ever having a desire to be crowned Rock~n~Roll~Queen nor do I recall Joni trying to be all over MTV with the release of Dog Eat Dog. I know I was around at that time, somewhat, being able to see what the music media was putting out on those poker chip videos, but I was also traveling abroad alot at that time and technology was not what it is today. But, no matter where I went I had DED on my walkman and all that mattered to me was what Joni had to say and I love that album because it said so much that I often wondered if the herbert hoover rovers weren't following her scent like bloodhounds. That album gave me so much insight and courage as I traveled South America with my own motorcycle diaries in disbelief of what greed lust causes on all of mankind. - --- Randy Remote wrote: > Maybe she was expecting to be crowned queen of rock > and roll or something, just because she really was > the best, > but, hey, what are you gonna do? > Britney, Christina, Pink, Stevie Nicks, > Madonna...they are > all women, they've all been big stars, because they > have > had lots of hits (and because of playing the sex > card, of > course, and being young). Non airheads like Tori > Amos, > Sara McLaughlin and Fiona Apple have done pretty > well, too. > Bob Dylan has had lots of hits. Leonard Cohen > hasn't. > Therefore Cohen has cult status similar to Joni's, > while > Bob has star status. > For Joni to say she was crucified or whatever for > Mingus, > ignored, etc is to overlook the basic fact that > these records > didn't sell. I think the record companies tried-she > was all > over MTV when DED came out. They tend to lose > interest > (literally) when the bucks aren't rolling in. > I think ageism is far more rampant in the music > industry > than sexism, institutionally, anyway. > RR > ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:51:20 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Fw: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' > Em wrote: > > >>I feel like getting a tattoo now that says "Joni-Awk", or some such. >> No sh_t. I might do it. > --How about a tattoo that says 'Em?' mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:09:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' so far: http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&imageid=5120646&friendID=87138037 :) - --- Lori Fye wrote: > Okay, that would ROCK, Em! I know you're sitting at work right now, > drawing > this tattoo. Share it when you've got it, will ya? > http://www.myspace.com/emzdogz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:39:59 -0700 From: "Randy Remote" Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? From: "mack watson-bush" > Randy wrote: > 'just because she really was the best,' --With all defrerence to Randy, > just exactly what was she the best of? Best singer-songwriter in pop music. So says David Crosby and no doubt a few people on this list. I realize rating art is dumb, but my point was that she knew her own worth in relation to the other 'product' that was out there. > Et if she has any so called problems I would find that she is the only one > that could distinguish whether or not they are so. Not neccesarily. People often can't see their own problems clearly. Doing something about them, on the other hand, rests on one's own shoulders. Not us, not me. I > thank her for her music, expect nothing else from her. I don't expect anything from her either, and didn't choose the subject line, but it is, of course, in reference to her own consistant complaint about being under-recognized. Not my problem. Just trying to point out another possible reason other than her cries of persecution. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:32:36 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Part of Joni's problem? Always hold the observations of Mr. Remote in high regard, thus the deference (reference). mack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:58:14 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' mack commented, on my feeling that those who "get" Joni may be "special": > --I used to think the same way. Now I realize that maybe it is us that > 'don't get it.' Whatever 'it' is. Putting ones self on a pedestal for > such is nothing less than silly (to me) so I got down and stopped. Well, I didn't mean to infer that being "special" puts me/us "above" anyone else. I can see why you'd think that, though, as it's often how special people feel. I do feel "apart" or "different," though not necessarily "better" than anyone else. > I hate rap music. Find it awful. But on the other hand it evokes in/from > some what Joni evokes in us. Maybe they 'get it.' Maybe. I try to make my brain listen through the thumping loudness to understand rap. I usually fail. It's just too abrasive for me, but then so is heavy metal. I just can't find a similarity in either of those genres to anything Joni has done. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:16:34 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: DED and its influence, and "motorcycle diaries" Jeannie wrote, of DED: > That album gave me so much insight and courage as > I traveled South America with my own motorcycle diaries > in disbelief of what greed lust causes on all of mankind. Hey Jeannie, I love DED too, and it was the soundtrack for a couple of the years I lived in Germany while I in the Air Force. In its own way, it played a part in my decision to get out of the military after 10+ years. I'm also a motorcyclist, and I'm most interested to know more about your adventures in South America. Here on the list or via private email, I'd enjoy reading about your travel there. Lori Santa Rosa, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:32:47 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" > mack commented, on my feeling that those who "get" Joni may be "special": > [snip] > > Well, I didn't mean to infer that being "special" puts me/us "above" > anyone > else. I can see why you'd think that, though, as it's often how special > people feel. Hi everyone, I'm new to the list. I've been listening passionately to Mitchell since I first heard FTR in spring of 1973. Although I must admit there were many years after Hejira when she lost me (not her old work, but the post-Hejira albums). However since various CDs (Hits and Misses, Travelogue, and other reworkings or collection) I've come to love and appreciate much of the post-Hejira music. As for why she is underappreciated I think it's a complex question. For one thing she gets grouped with Baez and Judy Collins, neither of whom can write. (I hear this all the time, as if Collins and Mitchell were comparable.) Also after the huge commercial success of Court and Spark, she refused to repeat herself and so a lot of people who loved "Help Me" probably were hoping for more of the same. Also she's hard. In the way much great art is hard. If you think about a line like "since Rospierre [sp] murdered half of France"--I mean, what percentage of the listening public is going to have the slightest idea what that means? Anyhow it's nice to find this group. I think my favorite album is probably The Hissing of Summer Lawns. Although my favorite song is Judgement of the Moon and Stars. I didn't know until I found your site that "Going to California," the only Led Zeppelin song I love, was about Mitchell. awk, AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:13:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' - --- AJ wrote: > question. For one thing she gets grouped with Baez and > Judy Collins, neither of whom can write. (I hear this all > the time, as if Collins and Mitchell were comparable.) I think this is a bit too broad (and harsh) a judgement of Baez and Collins: "neither of whom can write". I mean neither "Since You've Asked" or "Sweet Sir Galahad" are exactly turds of songwriting. Yes its true neither woman has the songwriting *horsepower* of Joni, but Joan and Judy have each written a few decent songs. Jewels, even. I agree though, they are not even remotely in the same category as Joni. Its just the girl w/guitar and long hair thing again. So many people don't see beyond that. Just my .02. Em http://www.myspace.com/emzdogz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:32:24 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' On Mar 23, 2007, at 3:58 PM, Lori Fye wrote: > mack commented, on my feeling that those who "get" Joni may be > "special": > >> --I used to think the same way. Now I realize that maybe it is us >> that >> 'don't get it.' Whatever 'it' is. Putting ones self on a >> pedestal for >> such is nothing less than silly (to me) so I got down and stopped. > > Well, I didn't mean to infer that being "special" puts me/us > "above" anyone > else. I can see why you'd think that, though, as it's often how > special > people feel. > > I do feel "apart" or "different," though not necessarily "better" than > anyone else. For me its simply a feeling of comradery that I've felt with other music as well, for example, the music of the Grateful Dead. There is a spiritual quality to their music that I find pervades it especially if I'm singing one of their songs at a gathering and others are singing along. I also love jazz music, particularly John Coltrane and Miles Davis but there are others I know who don't like jazz at all, or like very little of it. I was actually somewhat of a metal head in high school and my favorite bands then were Iron Maiden and Rush though that quickly progressed to others like Yes and Jethro Tull, etc... Anyhow, I don't really think about being a fan of Joni's music as much as I just am one. When I listen to music that I connect to on a deeper level (which is a lot of music) I lose myself in a way and it engages my "soul" for lack of a better term. Stevie Wonder and David Sylvian do this for me as well. I guess it just seems so much larger than myself or anyone, even the artist themselves...so I'm not really even thinking in those terms. There is much beauty in the world that is there to be discovered, seen and heard. I feel special just knowing the friends I have, being able to experience life together with them. There are many ways to channel that energy...music is one of them. Victor Grateful Dead - Foolish Heart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:48:51 -0000 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2007 #125 Big thanks Ron, loving that. There's also kd at 62! Best, Bill > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 19:50:47 +0200 > From: "ron" > Subject: joni tribute > > hi > > > >>>bob wrote > > On the upside, I got my advance promo of the Joni Tribute > CD yesterday and > > have been enjoying it a bunch. Cassandra's "For The Roses" > in particular > > is just exquisite. > > > i just logged into the village records jukebox player - straight into > emmylou singing magdalene laundries ..... > > go to: > > www.villagerecords.com > > & click on the jukebox just below the search box. > > > > ron > > ------------------------------ - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date: 22/03/2007 07:44 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:04:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' Hi & 'Awk' back to ya, AJ - thanks for the intro and keep your thoughts coming. I'm sort of the opposite of you, though - I wasn't really overly drawn to Joni until Hejira which just blew me away. I kept up with every release after that but didn't really backfill so much until later on and then once I joined this bunch and got into all the pre-STAS music, live shows, interviews and the like. Bob NP: Johnny Cash, "The Mercy Seat" - --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:46:55 -0000 From: "Bill Pearson" Subject: RE: Aussies I'd Like To Hear Cover Joni Songs Nice one Mark. Can we extend to NZ so I can have Bic Runga doing Night Ride Home and I think I hear Jimmy doing Flat Tyres :-) Best, Bill > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 18:52:24 +1100 > From: Mark-Leon Thorne > Subject: Aussies I'd Like To Hear Cover Joni Songs > > Hello Jonimates. > > I was just musing to myself on Australian singers I would > like to hear > cover some of Joni's songs. I would love to see an Australian tribute > album. Here's how the track list would go in my dream Aussie tribute > album. > > 1. Olivia Newton-John - A Case of You > 2. Jimmy Barnes - Sex Kills > 3. Keith Urban - You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio > 4. Darren Hayes - Two Grey Rooms > 5. Kate Ceberano - In France They Kiss On Main Street > 6. Richard Clapton - Woodstock > 7. Vince Jones - A Bird That Whistles or The Dry Cleaner From > Des Moines 8. Wendy Matthews - Blue 9. Grace Knight - Edith > and The Kingpin 10. Natalie Imbruglia - Electricity 11. Deni > Hines - Man From Mars 12. John Williamson - For Free 12. > David Bridie - The Tealeaf Prophecy 13. Christine Anu - All I > Want 14. Alex Lloyd - Stay In Touch 15. John Butler - Cold > Blue Steel and Sweet Fire 16. Nick Cave - Blonde In The > Bleachers 17. Peggy Van Zalm - For The Roses 18. Lee > Kernaghan - See You Sometime 19. Renee Geyer - Woman of Heart > and Mind or God Must Be a Boogie Man 20. Glen Shorrock - The > Fiddle and The Drum > > Mark in Sydney > - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date: 22/03/2007 07:44 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:22:35 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Re: Joni and the Dinosaurs >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:02:38 EDT >From: Gertus@aol.com >Subject: Joni and the Dinosaurs > >Nice to see Joni getting decent coverage in the UK press for once and I >think Amanda Ghost must deserve some of the credit. > And even nicer to see your name on the list Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 00:30:16 +0000 From: Garret Subject: Joni for the picnic There is a music festival that i like here in Ireland called Electric Picnic. On the forum on their site there has been a small thread calling for Joni to play the Picnic (ok, one of the questions at the moment: is 60-ish too old to tour or too old to be bothered to tour?). Joni has not played in Ireland since 1983. I was 2. I wasn't there. GARRET NP- Sinead O Connor on The Podge & Rodge Show, hehe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:22:53 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: Aussies I'd Like To Hear Cover Joni Songs I'd like to hear AC/DC cover "Wild Things Run Fast"....now that would be cool! Victor NP: NCAA sweet 16 Carolina & USC Go Gators! and go Tarheels! On Mar 23, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Bill Pearson wrote: > Nice one Mark. > Can we extend to NZ so I can have Bic Runga doing Night Ride Home > and I > think I hear Jimmy doing Flat Tyres :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:05:26 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Em" > > I think this is a bit too broad (and harsh) a judgement of Baez and > Collins: "neither of whom can write". > I mean neither "Since You've Asked" or "Sweet Sir Galahad" are exactly > turds of songwriting. I admire and indeed love "Since You've Asked" and "Diamonds and Rust" (and "Houses"), but these songs seem like lucky gems among a sea of mediocre writing. And both women's--Baez and Collins--are better known for their covers. Mitchell's is an enormous body of work, consistently brilliant. JMO, AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 22:07:12 -0500 From: "AJ" Subject: Re: RE : Re: Part of Joni's problem? now 'awk' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Muller" > NP: Johnny Cash, "The Mercy Seat" Bob, Thanks for the welcome. Does NP mean "Now playing?" "Mercy Seat" was on our playlist during dinner! - --AJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2007 23:54:46 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Joni's profile, something fun I've just been looking up things on the internet out of boredom, out of just wanting to keep myself occupied, and out of curiosity. Well I love astrology and look what I came upon: _http://www.topsynergy.com/famous/Joni_Mitchell.asp_ (http://www.topsynergy.com/famous/Joni_Mitchell.asp) It's Joni's astrological profile! Now I love Astrology as a form of entertainment only. I don't actually believe it to be true, as much as I hope it would be (same thing like ghosts, aliens, miracles even). It's just so very interesting that I always read things about it and have about 4 different horoscopes sent to me daily. So if you're bored or just curious what the "stars" say about Joni, have a look! So it starts off with talking about Joni in relationships and if you scroll to the right it says more. - -Monika ************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 06:33:10 +0100 (CET) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: Aussies I'd Like To Hear Cover Joni Songs What about Toni Collette doing "Blue Motel Room"? I first heard her sing Crowded House's "Don't Dream it's Over" in the closing credits of the Aussie movie "Cosi" and I was pleasantly surprised by how very good her vocals are. Watched this campy "Connie and Carla" just because she was in it and she is just compulsively watchable than Nia Vardalos as well as a better singer. Joseph in Chapel Hill (who watches all the films of his fave directors and actors no matter how bad the films). P.S. Yay!!!! for the Tar Heels and Gators for making it to the Elite 8!! - --- Victor Johnson a icrit : > I'd like to hear AC/DC cover "Wild Things Run > Fast"....now that would > be cool! > > Victor > > NP: NCAA sweet 16 Carolina & USC Go Gators! and > go Tarheels! > > > > On Mar 23, 2007, at 7:46 PM, Bill Pearson wrote: > > > Nice one Mark. > > Can we extend to NZ so I can have Bic Runga doing > Night Ride Home > > and I > > think I hear Jimmy doing Flat Tyres :-) > ___________________________________________________________________________ Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des internautes sur Yahoo! 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