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onlyJMDL Digest       Thursday, March 15 2007       Volume 2007 : Number 080



==========

TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
  Re: J rejects Feminism                                [Snapple1984@aol.com]
  =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rk's_"Boho_Dance"?=  ["The Boho Dance" <bohodance@gmai]
  RE: Bra-burning feminsits--urban legend RE: Re: J rejects feminism SJC  ["]
  Circle Game in the movies                            [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com]
  Re: Bjork's Boho Dance                     [Garret <mcdermottgl@gmail.com>]
  Re: Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductions.... now jc  [Garret <mcdermottgl@g]
  Re: J rejects feminism                [Kate Johnson <twoshoes@sasktel.net>]
  Re: Bra-burning feminsits--urban legend RE: Re: J rejects  feminism SJC  []
  CBC-TV dvd's                      [Brian Gross <briangross@rocketmail.com>]
  Re: J rejects feminism           ["Gerald A. Notaro" <notaro@stpt.usf.edu>]
  Joni cover makes Cracked.com's worst-ever list  [Smurf <smurfadelica@yahoo]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 05:01:48 EDT
From: Snapple1984@aol.com
Subject: Re: J rejects Feminism

Hmmmm.  As a child of the 80s (nee '85) I can see why Joni would  reject the 
label "feminist."  But then again, I can see why anyone would  reject any 
label.  In fact, I have somewhat of a theory about my generation  as the 
"unlabeled" generation.  Basically, despite the tremendous progress  that was made 
during the 60s and 70s in many areas, some of the progress also  brought with it 
rigid labels and harsh polarization.  I think that people  of my generation 
have seen a lot of labels rise and fall, and be subjected to  much criticism.  
Many young women my age will not refer to themselves as  feminist because 
somehow the reactionary forces to the feminists got across the  message that 
"feminist" is a pseudonym for man-hating, obnoxious butch  dykes.  (I do not have a 
problem with being butch and I use the term  dyke only because it is the 
accepted term in my generation, so hopefully that  doesn't offend anybody.  My ex 
girlfriend called me a dyke all the time!  :)  But a lot of women don't want to 
be seen this way.  And a lot are  confused about how to be a feminist and be 
in love with a man.  So anyway,  they may actually support feminist causes but 
not know it and still reject the  term.  So far my unlabeled theory applies 
mainly to sexuality (which seems  to be a defining element of this generation), 
the realm in which such terms as  pansexual and polyamorous are already 
becoming passe and bisexual is so  antiquated it's practically laughable.  When 
people ask what my  "preference" is I usually answer in the way Joan Baez did in 
her 87  autobiography.  Namely, saying exactly what happened.  I have had one  
girlfriend, I have had one boyfriend and I have had encounters with other  
men.  Take from that what you will.  Some, such as my parents, say  that such 
behavior is, basically, "fucking anything that walks."  However,  I assure you 
this is not the case and I am not, in fact, promiscuous.
 
Jill - you live in Seattle?  Damn, I wish I were able to go to  Jonifest this 
year but unfortunately something came up with my family at the  last minute.  
Maybe we can drive together in 08.  That way I could  kill two birds with one 
stone - I would get to go to Jonifest AND drive across  the country, which 
I've always wanted to do.  I live in Portland.  
 
- - Kira
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free 
email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at 
http://www.aol.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:26:15 +0200
From: "The Boho Dance" <bohodance@gmail.com>
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rk's_"Boho_Dance"?=

Me too, been dying to hear this! I thought nobody recorded it.
ThankYouThankYouThankYou Bob!

Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:45:21 -0400
> From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com
> Subject: Bjork's "Boho Dance"
>
> You can hear it here:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddtp5zvrX1c
>
> Bob


Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:12:42 +1100
> Awesome, Bob. I have been dying to hear this. She couldn't have picked
> a more appropriate song. The style is very much like Bjvrk's most
> recent album, Medulla.
>
> Mark in Sydney
> ------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:06:13 -0500
From: "Bree Mcdonough" <bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Bra-burning feminsits--urban legend RE: Re: J rejects feminism SJC

I think what Joni rejects is the more radical branch of the feminist 
movement.    And probably..the term itself...FEMINIST. (the militant branch) 
   You know..the mindset that men all are inherently pigs and they are the 
cause of all  our woes.     Also playing  in the mix is that Joni doesn't 
like to be pigeon-holed..PERIOD.  Although......    I wonder if she runs 
from the term ..environmentalist?

Bree

>The existence of bra-burning feminists is an urban legend perpetrated by
>anti-feminist media.  See:
>
>http://www.snopes.com/history/american/burnbra.htm
>
>The tendency for women like Joni to disavow feminism, when they are clearly
>feminists in the sense that they certainly believe in the political, social
>and economic equality of the sexes, is unfortunate. "Bra-burning feminism"
>is the late-sixties, early seventies equivalent of the noxious Rush
>Limbaugh's "feminazi" today.
>
>Susan Faludi in _Backlash_ gives the following account:
>
>"The first action of the new women's liberation movement to receive 
>national
>front-page coverage was a protest of the Miss America pageant [in 1968].
>Many feminist marches for jobs, pay equity, and coeducation had preceded 
>it,
>but they didn't attract anywhere near the media attention.  The reason the
>event got so much ink:  a few women tossed padded brassieres in a trash 
>can.
>No one actually burned a bra that day--as a journalist erroneously 
>reported.
>In fact there's no evidence that any undergarment was ever so much as 
>singed
>at any women's rights demonstration in the decade.  (The only two such
>displays that came close were organized by _men_, a disk jocky and an
>architect, who tried to get women to fling their bras into a barrel and the
>Chicago River as 'media events.'  Only three women cooperated in the river
>stunt--all models hired by the architect.)  Yet to read the press accounts
>of the time, the bonfires of feminism nearly cremated the lingerie
>industry."  (p.75)
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Joseph
>Palis
>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 1:45 PM
>To: joni@smoe.org
>Subject: RE : Re: J rejects feminism
>
>Excellent posts everyone!
>
>I am wondering if Joni innately resists the label of feminism (broadly
>defined) and the baggage that comes with it which may explain why she came
>up with statements that had her berate feminists as "too aggressive"? But I
>wonder who are the feminists she is up against here? Was she referring to
>Gloria Steinem, Jane Fonda and the bra-burning women who protested the 
>power
>relations of gender politics in the late 60s-early 70s? Or was she 
>referring
>to anyone who openly admit they are feminists and whose actions Joni find
>abrasive or uncouth?
>
>Sometimes I wonder if Joni finds more affinity with the early wave of
>feminism in the turn of the century and of Virginia Woolf who insist that
>women have a room of one's own.
>
>I view Joni's art, music and ideological slant as falling into the feminist
>label but understand that she may have issues with that label itself. Kinda
>resisting labels that can themselves imprison.
>
>Joseph enjoying "ghost town" Chapel Hill,
>np:  Cassanda Wilson "Easy Rider"
>
>Marion Leffler <marionleffler@telia.com> a icrit : Yes, Kate, I understand
>that, myself being a woman of Joni's generation.
>After all, it is the women of that generation who started the second wave 
>of
>
>feminism. Why Joni persists remarking on feminism in what I feel is a 
>rather
>
>uninformed way is beyond me, especially since she seems to be living in a
>way any feminist would applaud.  But I guess we all have our blind spots...
>Marion
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kate Johnson"
>To:
>Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:46 PM
>Subject: J rejects feminism
>
>
> >> There is one thing that puzzles me about her, though, and that is
> >> her constant
> >> rejection of feminism. In some interviews, she has said that
> >> feminists are
> >> "too aggressive". In the Word article, she repeats for the umptiest
> >> time that
> >> her music is raceless and genderless. And that it isn't "feminine".
> >> I think it
> >> is!! She certainly speaks with a woman's voice in all her lyrics,
> >> and how
> >> could she not? Anybody else baffled by this?
> >>
> >> Have a nice weekend,
> >> Marion
> >
> >  I think she's got feminism and hatred of men mixed up in her mind.
> > She's always felt she was one of the boys ... and of course, since
> > males are considered superior in our culture and around the world (I
> > know, it's ridiculous, but there you have it), many women are pleased
> > to be identified with men. To be told you had a man's mind, or
> > thought like a man, was considered a compliment for a woman growing
> > up when Joni did, and earlier.
> >
> > Kate of the North!
> > (doesn't that just require an exclamation mark?)
> > http://xoetc.antville.org
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>  Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos 
>questions
>! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des
>internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses.

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:10:44 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com
Subject: Circle Game in the movies

<the song The Circle Game  was used in a movie - in the late 80's or early 
90's - can anyone advise what the name of that movie was?  the song was at 
the end of the movie while the parents were watching their children at a 
school recital or something similar.....any ideas????>

Hi Lori - I don't know for sure, but I do see that there was a 1994 
Canadian film titled "The Circle Game" that was a family drama - maybe 
that's what you're thinking of. I'd be surprised if a CANADIAN film titled 
identically to one of Joni's most well-known songs didn't reference it at 
some point.

The only use of the song in a film that I'm certain about is the Buffy 
Saint-Marie cover used in "The Strawberry Statement".

Hope that helps a little.

Bob

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:35:26 +0000
From: Garret <mcdermottgl@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Bjork's Boho Dance

I'm blown away by this!  Could the song choice be better?  Bjork, if
you're listening out there somewhere, please cover the entire HOSL
album!
Thanks for sharing the link Bob,
GARRET

NP - Neil Young, After The Gold Rush

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:33:21 +0000
From: Garret <mcdermottgl@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductions.... now jc

Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 08:50:17 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro <notaro@stpt.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductions njc
.
.
.
REM reunited with Bill Berry for the occasion
> and Patti Smith performed a song for her deceased mother.

Patti ROCKED!!!!!!!!



Well of course she did Jerry.
She performed Gimme Shelter, because the night and (her mother's
favourite) Rock N Roll Nigger (on live tv, and some of the f**ks not
being bleeped). Apparently her mother used to vacuum listening to this
one, lol.   Then People Have the Power was the encore that everyone
sang on.


Em -  the band played with her - the great Lenny Kaye, Tony Shanahan,
Jay Dee Daugherty, and her son, Jackson.  But they really had to in my
opinion, they are a unit.  PSG was put to rest in 1979 but the same
people still work with Patti, writing songs and playing.

And Rose... Patii will be touring soon so get you out to see her if
she plays near you (are you in NY?).  Her upcoming album is an album
of covers, and i have really liked what i heard so far - will be first
in line hte day it's released.  She will be celebrating hte summer of
love on the tour apparently.  Who knows what that means.  Of course,
she is likely to be playing her "bluegrass" version of smells like
teen spirit (she set out to emphasise the lyrics to teh songs on this
album it seems). Not your typical gig i imagine.

The European tour begins soon enough and goes until the end of June.

I sometimes see an odd parallel between Patti Smith and Joni Mitchell
for various reasons.  Recently i have been struck by a distinct
difference:  There was a quote on the list recently from Joni saying
she typcially shifts 300,000 albums but htat it takes 600,000 to make
money (does it really take 600,000 to break even?  i find that very
hard to believe but then i'm quite ignorant about how these things
work).  I've always had the feeling that Joni wants commercial
success.  Patti Smith i would guess sells significantly fewer albums
than Joni, but she does not seem to mind this.  I read in an interview
recently some comment from her about her "so called career" -
something like "if you call it a career i kinda made a balls of it -
ten albums in 30 years, only one hit" and laughing.  IN a sense she
seems to revel in feeling obscure, it seems to inspire her.  The
unifying point here is that in many ways both are really quite
mainstream and just don't really see that, they have influenced
countless of today's biggest names in popular music, and have spoken
intimately to fans through their music in a way that, for those who
like, seems to speak directly to them on some ill-defined
visceral/emotional/intellectual/beauteous level.  I don't really know.

Ok, while i'm rambling.  We heard Joni on Paul Simon recently, here's
a Patti quote from a just published interviwe (contrast with Joni's
comments):
 Your choice of covering Paul Simon's "Boy in the Bubble" surprised me.

Me, too. The thing is, I don't even like Paul Simon. I don't mean
that personally, I don't know him, but his music has never appealed to
me. If you were to ask me a year ago if I was going to cover a Paul
Simon song I'd say no. But in the '80s when that song came out, I
really admired it. That song has great lyrics. I thought, "I should
have wrote that song, how'd he write that?" There's so much in that.
Lasers in the jungle, cameras in slo-mo, the bomb in the baby
carriage, it's all in this one song. I thought the song should be
re-examined. Whether I like Paul Simon or not, he wrote really good
lyrics that speak for our present condition.


For the record, i really like Paul Simon and when i saw Simon and
Garfunkel three years ago in London it was unlike anything else.
GARRET

NP - Neil Young, After The Gold Rush

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:14:28 -0500
From: Kate Johnson <twoshoes@sasktel.net>
Subject: Re: J rejects feminism

On 14-Mar-07, at 2:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote:

> I am wondering if Joni innately resists the label of feminism  
> (broadly defined) and the baggage that comes with it which may  
> explain why she came up with statements that had her berate  
> feminists as "too aggressive"?

Joni is close in age to my mom, who also grew up in Saskatchewan. Now  
my mom was not a "town kid," as Joni was, and my mom wasn't a hippy  
chick, or an only child ... and my mom didn't go away to art school,  
no, she got pregnant at 17 and married ... but she also was a singer,  
played several instruments by ear, loved music ... anyway my point  
(if i have one) is that they are (were; Mom died almost two years  
ago) very different women and yet ... my mom would never have thought  
of herself as a feminist either. She would have thought there was no  
need for feminism (in her OWN life, that is) because she was content  
with her role of homemaker and mother and not at all like a second- 
class citizen. Could it be that Joni feels content with her  
"domesticity," that it is satisfying for her along with her freedom  
to create in her own way? (as my mother did; she was very creative in  
her chosen crafts).

"Aggressive" feminism has suggested women should reject domestic  
work; it's undervalued and doing it is a sort of cop-out, especially  
if you are doing much of it for the men who live in your home (as  
most women are, and doing more than their share too-- yes I'm  
generalizing I know, but statistics show it's not a generalization  
that's far off base) as well as for yourself, and this can be a type  
of enslavement (well i won't go there but i could, oh i could!) --  
well Joni enjoys this type of domestic activity, she  enjoys cooking,  
decorating and keeping her home nice, etc -- yet a certain kind of   
(radical?) feminism once insisted this interest and aptitude is  
beneath an "equal" woman ... especially since before that time many  
women didn't feel they had other options; those choices had to be  
fought for, and so many women felt they had to reject that part of  
themselves that knew the personal domestic situation is equally  
important. My goodness, yes! if we aren't happy in our homes, what's  
the point of it all?

I would reject feminism too if I thought it didn't respect my choice  
of making my personal space as comfortable as I can; if it made me  
feel guilty for cooking a good meal and sharing it with a man; if it  
belittled my choice to make a certain kind of home for myself and my  
children by being here rather than engaging in a career that kept me  
away all day.

Anais Nin also rejected feminism as a label, because she did not  
believe that hating and rejecting men was the way to go, and she got  
a lot of flak for that. She herself had bought into the prevailing  
idea that men's minds were better than women's minds for  
understanding intellectual ideas ... that men and women weren't equal  
is that bottom line, as far as I can see ... and yet she was useful  
to the feminist movement because she publicly rejected the typical  
"dependent on men" lifestyle (though she was, financially and  
emotionally!) of the times (she also loved to keep her household up  
to her standard of beauty and functionality, and to create a home).

Yes, I am a-rambling. Enuffadat!

Kate du Nord!
http://xoetc.antville.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:10:00 -0700
From: "Randy Remote" <guitarzan@hughes.net>
Subject: Re: Bra-burning feminsits--urban legend RE: Re: J rejects  feminism SJC

From: "Bree Mcdonough" <bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com>
>I think what Joni rejects is the more radical branch of the feminist 
>movement.    And probably..the term itself...FEMINIST. (the militant 
>branch)

The term feminist doesn't mean militant. The only female armies
I'm aware of weren't for killing, unlike the male ones.

>   You know..the mindset that men all are inherently pigs and they are the 
> cause of all  our woes.     Also playing  in the mix is that Joni doesn't 
> like to be pigeon-holed..PERIOD.  Although......    I wonder if she runs 
> from the term ..environmentalist?

We know she has called herself a buddhist. So there's one ist.
People keep saying she is rejecting the LABEL of feminist.
It seems like more than that. She could easily say that she
doesn't want to be labeled anything, but supports the
underlying ideas of feminism and gender equality.
What's the big deal? Why does she insist
her music must be genderless? She is not genderless,
unless she's had some operation we are not aware of.
She sings in a woman's voice. Gender. Get over it.
RR
(...of course, men are inherently pigs! Is there any doubt
about that? Woes...again, almost entirely male caused.
Women's role has largely been one of collusion.) 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:41:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Gross <briangross@rocketmail.com>
Subject: CBC-TV dvd's

The 50th request just arrived in my email.

The last 15 copies will go out in tomorrow's mail (The first 35 went out
yesterday and today)

One of the 50 told me that he would continue the copying, so this is certainly
not the end of the line for this really wonderful video.

Thanks again to Michael O'Malley for recording the source material off the CBC.
Michael, I'll be mailing your original back to you, and under separate cover, a
backup copy just in case one of our postal services "goes postal" on your
original!

And thank you, JMDLers all, for allowing me to do this for you.
It is a privilege and an honor to be part of this community.

As Jamie Z says so aptly:

much Joni,

Brian



- -----------------------------------------------------------
Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often.
And usually for the same reasons.
- -----------------------------------------------------------


 
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:21:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gerald A. Notaro" <notaro@stpt.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: J rejects feminism

Kate Johnson wrote:

> I would reject feminism too if I thought it didn't respect my choice
> of making my personal space as comfortable as I can; if it made me
> feel guilty for cooking a good meal and sharing it with a man; if it
> belittled my choice to make a certain kind of home for myself and my
> children by being here rather than engaging in a career that kept me
> away all day.

I think most of us define feminism as having had a choice. I think it is
that simple. Many women before Joni didn't any choice at all.

Jerry

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:09:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Smurf <smurfadelica@yahoo.com>
Subject: Joni cover makes Cracked.com's worst-ever list

The Worst Cover Songs In Pop Music History

For video samples of all the songs, and eplainations
of why they were chosen, go to: 

http://www.cracked.com/index.php?name=News&sid=1713&pageid=1

20. "You Shook Me All Night Long"  Celine Dion and
Anastasia
 19. "Downtown Train"  Rod Stewart
 18. "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"  Guns N Roses
 17. "Demolition Man"  Manfred Mann
 16. "American Pie"  Madonna
 15. "My Generation"  Hilary Duff
 14. "It's My Life"  No Doubt
 13. "Video Killed The Radio Star"  The Presidents of
the United States of America
 12. "Walk this Way"  Macy Gray
 11. "Another Brick in the Wall"  Korn
 10. "I'm A Believer"  Smash Mouth
 09. "Satisfaction"  Britney Spears
 08. "Sweet Child O Mine"  Sheryl Crowe
 07. "Big Yellow Taxi"  Counting Crows
 06. "911 Is a Joke"  Duran Duran
 05. "Anarchy in the UK"  Motley Crue
 04. "Behind Blue Eyes"  Limp Bizkit
 03. "Feel Like Making Love"  Kid Rock
 02. "Dock of the Bay"  Michael Bolton
 01. "And It Stoned Me"  Bob Dylan

Here's what they said about BYT:

"We absolutely loved the way that lead singer Adam
Duritz (the hairy Fraggle wearing the arty-fart Dr.
Seuss hat in the video) changed up the phrasing to
make it more liberal than the original Joni Mitchell
version. Because if there's one thing that Joni
Mitchell could've improved on, it was being more
liberal. That made all the difference to us. We've
since started buying organic apples."


.


 
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End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #80
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