From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #79 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, March 14 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 079 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Bjork's "Boho Dance" [Mark-Leon Thorne ] joni anecdote [waytoblue@comcast.net] RE : Re: J rejects feminism [Joseph Palis ] Re: RE : Re: J rejects feminism ["Jenny Goodspeed" ] Bra-burning feminsits--urban legend RE: Re: J rejects feminism SJC ["Rich] Re: RE : Re: J rejects feminism [Motitan@aol.com] Re: Canadian SW Hall of Fame [Brian Gross ] On critics [Motitan@aol.com] ATTENTION: LURKERS ON DIGEST [Brian Gross ] FW: Message from Website ["Les Irvin" ] Joni and Feminism, Paz report, Jonifest ["Jill Haas" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 19:12:42 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Bjork's "Boho Dance" Awesome, Bob. I have been dying to hear this. She couldn't have picked a more appropriate song. The style is very much like Bjvrk's most recent album, Medulla. Mark in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:54:32 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: joni anecdote I was talking to my music theory professor, who is very cool by the way, a huge jazz fan among other genres and a Joni fan as well, and he also has a great sense of humor. I was telling him about the Word article and reiterated Randy's post about the hummer and FTR (which I am still laughing about) which he got a kick out of. Anyway, I got to the part where Joni talks about classical music and he said he values her opinion [about music other than her own] about as much as he would value a frog's opinion. I thought that was hilarious and am still laughing about it. He is a Debussy scholar, we were talking about him, and he told a story about Bela Bartok, who wanted to meet Debussy, after hearing his music and hearing so much about him. Apparently, as fabulous a musician as he [Debussy] was, he had a nasty disposition and acted like a jerk much of the time. When some friends told Bartok this, he said that just made him want to meet him even more. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:44:37 +0100 (CET) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Re: J rejects feminism Excellent posts everyone! I am wondering if Joni innately resists the label of feminism (broadly defined) and the baggage that comes with it which may explain why she came up with statements that had her berate feminists as "too aggressive"? But I wonder who are the feminists she is up against here? Was she referring to Gloria Steinem, Jane Fonda and the bra-burning women who protested the power relations of gender politics in the late 60s-early 70s? Or was she referring to anyone who openly admit they are feminists and whose actions Joni find abrasive or uncouth? Sometimes I wonder if Joni finds more affinity with the early wave of feminism in the turn of the century and of Virginia Woolf who insist that women have a room of one's own. I view Joni's art, music and ideological slant as falling into the feminist label but understand that she may have issues with that label itself. Kinda resisting labels that can themselves imprison. Joseph enjoying "ghost town" Chapel Hill, np: Cassanda Wilson "Easy Rider" Marion Leffler a icrit : Yes, Kate, I understand that, myself being a woman of Joni's generation. After all, it is the women of that generation who started the second wave of feminism. Why Joni persists remarking on feminism in what I feel is a rather uninformed way is beyond me, especially since she seems to be living in a way any feminist would applaud. But I guess we all have our blind spots... Marion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Johnson" To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: J rejects feminism >> There is one thing that puzzles me about her, though, and that is >> her constant >> rejection of feminism. In some interviews, she has said that >> feminists are >> "too aggressive". In the Word article, she repeats for the umptiest >> time that >> her music is raceless and genderless. And that it isn't "feminine". >> I think it >> is!! She certainly speaks with a woman's voice in all her lyrics, >> and how >> could she not? Anybody else baffled by this? >> >> Have a nice weekend, >> Marion > > I think she's got feminism and hatred of men mixed up in her mind. > She's always felt she was one of the boys ... and of course, since > males are considered superior in our culture and around the world (I > know, it's ridiculous, but there you have it), many women are pleased > to be identified with men. To be told you had a man's mind, or > thought like a man, was considered a compliment for a woman growing > up when Joni did, and earlier. > > Kate of the North! > (doesn't that just require an exclamation mark?) > http://xoetc.antville.org - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:05:02 -0400 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Re: RE : Re: J rejects feminism Well I had to go searching in the JMDL library for places where Joni "rejects" feminism to see what people are referring to. There is the very agenda-laden 'interview' by Ani Difranco which paints a picture of Joni based on Ani's premise that you're either a feminist or misogynist; there's no in between. (It made me laugh to imagine Ani trying to get Joni to cop to being a feminist, as if anyone could get Joni to say anything..." Other than that, I read that she doesn't label herself a feminist, though she has become more feminist over time. In another article she says, "Feminism was too divisive. It was us against them .. . but it did something to open things up. I hate the word but I like the idea of a person, that a man and a woman can sit and for one moment all of these sexual considerations are bypassed and you have an open dialogue from person to person. I have basically tried to live my life as a person in that way." In another article she mentioned liking 'some practical feminism' that was more about 'men and women discussing women's problems'. And in another: "Basically, I feel that a lot of strides were made in this country during the '60s--equal rights, feminism, freedom of speech, etc.--but under Reagan's new conservatism, much of that's being eroded and undone She may have narrower view of feminism than many would like. But I think she's getting a bad rap here. I am totally aware I sound like a Joni apologist and for that...I apologize ; ) Just trying to shed light on some of the complexity of the issue and what she has said about it in the past. Jenny On 3/13/07, Joseph Palis wrote: > > Excellent posts everyone! > > I am wondering if Joni innately resists the label of feminism (broadly > defined) and the baggage that comes with it which may explain why she came > up with statements that had her berate feminists as "too aggressive"? But I > wonder who are the feminists she is up against here? Was she referring to > Gloria Steinem, Jane Fonda and the bra-burning women who protested the power > relations of gender politics in the late 60s-early 70s? Or was she referring > to anyone who openly admit they are feminists and whose actions Joni find > abrasive or uncouth? > > Sometimes I wonder if Joni finds more affinity with the early wave of > feminism in the turn of the century and of Virginia Woolf who insist that > women have a room of one's own. > > I view Joni's art, music and ideological slant as falling into the > feminist label but understand that she may have issues with that label > itself. Kinda resisting labels that can themselves imprison. > > Joseph enjoying "ghost town" Chapel Hill, > np: Cassanda Wilson "Easy Rider" > > Marion Leffler a icrit : Yes, Kate, I understand > that, myself being a woman of Joni's generation. > After all, it is the women of that generation who started the second wave > of > feminism. Why Joni persists remarking on feminism in what I feel is a > rather > uninformed way is beyond me, especially since she seems to be living in a > way any feminist would applaud. But I guess we all have our blind > spots... > Marion > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Johnson" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: J rejects feminism > > > >> There is one thing that puzzles me about her, though, and that is > >> her constant > >> rejection of feminism. In some interviews, she has said that > >> feminists are > >> "too aggressive". In the Word article, she repeats for the umptiest > >> time that > >> her music is raceless and genderless. And that it isn't "feminine". > >> I think it > >> is!! She certainly speaks with a woman's voice in all her lyrics, > >> and how > >> could she not? Anybody else baffled by this? > >> > >> Have a nice weekend, > >> Marion > > > > I think she's got feminism and hatred of men mixed up in her mind. > > She's always felt she was one of the boys ... and of course, since > > males are considered superior in our culture and around the world (I > > know, it's ridiculous, but there you have it), many women are pleased > > to be identified with men. To be told you had a man's mind, or > > thought like a man, was considered a compliment for a woman growing > > up when Joni did, and earlier. > > > > Kate of the North! > > (doesn't that just require an exclamation mark?) > > http://xoetc.antville.org > > > > --------------------------------- > Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions > ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des > internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:13:42 -0400 From: "Jenny Goodspeed" Subject: Canadian SW Hall of Fame I watched the ceremony last night (thanks to mom or who lives in Michigan and gets CBC!). I admit I fast forwarded through anything that didn't have to do with Joni. The sweetest minutes began with JT's rendition of Woodstock and tribute to Joni, followed by Herbie Hancock's wonderful introduction - telling her she would have done Mingus proud had he lived to hear the record - and then Joni coming up and giving a shy and much too short speech (or was it edited for TV?). It was very moving. I wasn't expecting that. Funny though - the five songs that were inducted? Is it safe to say they are the songs that charted highest/made the most money? Both Sides Now Big Yellow Taxi You Turn Me On Help Me What was the 5th? Free Man? I guess that's the measure of a good song on the business side of things. Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:35:58 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Bra-burning feminsits--urban legend RE: Re: J rejects feminism SJC The existence of bra-burning feminists is an urban legend perpetrated by anti-feminist media. See: http://www.snopes.com/history/american/burnbra.htm The tendency for women like Joni to disavow feminism, when they are clearly feminists in the sense that they certainly believe in the political, social and economic equality of the sexes, is unfortunate. "Bra-burning feminism" is the late-sixties, early seventies equivalent of the noxious Rush Limbaugh's "feminazi" today. Susan Faludi in _Backlash_ gives the following account: "The first action of the new women's liberation movement to receive national front-page coverage was a protest of the Miss America pageant [in 1968]. Many feminist marches for jobs, pay equity, and coeducation had preceded it, but they didn't attract anywhere near the media attention. The reason the event got so much ink: a few women tossed padded brassieres in a trash can. No one actually burned a bra that day--as a journalist erroneously reported. In fact there's no evidence that any undergarment was ever so much as singed at any women's rights demonstration in the decade. (The only two such displays that came close were organized by _men_, a disk jocky and an architect, who tried to get women to fling their bras into a barrel and the Chicago River as 'media events.' Only three women cooperated in the river stunt--all models hired by the architect.) Yet to read the press accounts of the time, the bonfires of feminism nearly cremated the lingerie industry." (p.75) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Palis Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 1:45 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE : Re: J rejects feminism Excellent posts everyone! I am wondering if Joni innately resists the label of feminism (broadly defined) and the baggage that comes with it which may explain why she came up with statements that had her berate feminists as "too aggressive"? But I wonder who are the feminists she is up against here? Was she referring to Gloria Steinem, Jane Fonda and the bra-burning women who protested the power relations of gender politics in the late 60s-early 70s? Or was she referring to anyone who openly admit they are feminists and whose actions Joni find abrasive or uncouth? Sometimes I wonder if Joni finds more affinity with the early wave of feminism in the turn of the century and of Virginia Woolf who insist that women have a room of one's own. I view Joni's art, music and ideological slant as falling into the feminist label but understand that she may have issues with that label itself. Kinda resisting labels that can themselves imprison. Joseph enjoying "ghost town" Chapel Hill, np: Cassanda Wilson "Easy Rider" Marion Leffler a icrit : Yes, Kate, I understand that, myself being a woman of Joni's generation. After all, it is the women of that generation who started the second wave of feminism. Why Joni persists remarking on feminism in what I feel is a rather uninformed way is beyond me, especially since she seems to be living in a way any feminist would applaud. But I guess we all have our blind spots... Marion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Johnson" To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: J rejects feminism >> There is one thing that puzzles me about her, though, and that is >> her constant >> rejection of feminism. In some interviews, she has said that >> feminists are >> "too aggressive". In the Word article, she repeats for the umptiest >> time that >> her music is raceless and genderless. And that it isn't "feminine". >> I think it >> is!! She certainly speaks with a woman's voice in all her lyrics, >> and how >> could she not? Anybody else baffled by this? >> >> Have a nice weekend, >> Marion > > I think she's got feminism and hatred of men mixed up in her mind. > She's always felt she was one of the boys ... and of course, since > males are considered superior in our culture and around the world (I > know, it's ridiculous, but there you have it), many women are pleased > to be identified with men. To be told you had a man's mind, or > thought like a man, was considered a compliment for a woman growing > up when Joni did, and earlier. > > Kate of the North! > (doesn't that just require an exclamation mark?) > http://xoetc.antville.org - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 16:42:09 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: RE : Re: J rejects feminism I know in the book "On The Road with Bob Dylan" (which I've mentioned several times on this list now as Joni was on that '75 tour with Dylan and his people) the author who was also a journalist from Rolling Stone I believe if I remember correctly, told Joni she was "one of his three favorite female songwriters." He mentioned her, Baez, and Ronee Blakely as the others and said Dylan, Leonard Cohen, and someone else (I forget who exactly) were his three favorite male songwriters. Well if you haven't read the book then you don't know how badly she chews him out for that man! She can't understand why he makes a distinction between male and female writers and so forth. It took some time and some chatting before Joni was "cool" again with the author/journalist. But by the end of the book they were hanging and all was good. - -Monika


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 14:33:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Canadian SW Hall of Fame Woodstock was the fifth song - --- Jenny Goodspeed wrote: > I watched the ceremony last night (thanks to mom or who lives in Michigan > and gets CBC!). I admit I fast forwarded through anything that didn't have > to do with Joni. > > The sweetest minutes began with JT's rendition of Woodstock and tribute to > Joni, followed by Herbie Hancock's wonderful introduction - telling her she > would have done Mingus proud had he lived to hear the record - and then Joni > coming up and giving a shy and much too short speech (or was it edited for > TV?). It was very moving. I wasn't expecting that. > > Funny though - the five songs that were inducted? Is it safe to say they > are the songs that charted highest/made the most money? > Both Sides Now > Big Yellow Taxi > You Turn Me On > Help Me > > What was the 5th? Free Man? I guess that's the measure of a good song on > the business side of things. Jenny > - ----------------------------------------------------------- Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often. And usually for the same reasons. - ----------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:50:19 EDT From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: On critics Well, so Joni seems very sensitive when it comes to critics and really I can't blame her. I can only imagine having people bashing you over and over with work that you truly put your heart into. So here are some words for Joni from a friend (not me, I don't know her! As sung by Neil Young.....) "So all you critics sit alone You're no better than me for what you've shown. With your stomach pump and your hook and ladder dreams We could get together for some scenes" - -Monika


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:57:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: ATTENTION: LURKERS ON DIGEST Subject: CBC-TV dvd of Joni's induction into the CSHOF and her McGill doctorate Michael O'Malley's off-the-air dvd arrived Monday (thank you Michael. It was great to watch these highlights in Joan's life from this year and last!) and I've already burned and mailed 35 copies. I've still got 15 copies for those of you who want one. All you need do is email me offlist with your mailing address, and I'll send you a copy. So come on, speak up. It's video you really want to see. And it's my way of giving back to this community. thanks, Brian - ----------------------------------------------------------- Politicians and diapers both need to be changed often. And usually for the same reasons. - ----------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________________________ TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:24:09 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: FW: Message from Website Please copy Lori on any responses. - -----Original Message----- the song The Circle Game was used in a movie - in the late 80's or early 90's - can anyone advise what the name of that movie was? the song was at the end of the movie while the parents were watching their children at a school recital or something similar.....any ideas???? Name: Lori Wheeler email: lauron@mountaincable.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 22:21:13 -0800 From: "Jill Haas" Subject: Joni and Feminism, Paz report, Jonifest Hey JMDListas, Jonifesterers and friends, Please forgive the multiple content of this mailing - I thought I would kill all birds with one stone since I have been unable to post for awhile... Joni Content--My take on Joni and feminism: To quote Mahatma Gandhi, "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Joni is simply living it, being it. Some people have an aversion to having themselves defined and limited by any group's dogma (or catma, to be fair). Segue...To Jonifest I was trying to earn some money for my trip by cleaning houses, and while wiping down a bathroom mirror, I slipped and hit my back on the edge of a bathtub. I will now be driving from Seattle to Jonifest with a broken rib. Now is that not one of the saddest stories you've ever heard? ChuckE, if I can do it, so can you! BTW, if anyone would like to contribute to my travel fund (thanks again ChuckE), I would appreciate anything you can donate. In exchange, I will give you a lovely prize from my Joni collection. The biggest donor gets first pick. Write me off-list and I'll give you my address. I think I'll be driving I-90, so if anyone lives close to that highway and can provide even a driveway to park my car in so I can get a safe night's sleep, I would love to hear from you. Also, if anyone has recommendations for a better route, let me know. P.S. I would love to join the songwriters group. I'm a recovering graduate of the University of Washington in English/Creative Writing. I've written tons of short stories and published a couple of poems, but I have trouble writing songs -- they're an entirely different animal. I need help breaking away from the sentence and the complete thought, but I think I can bring something to the gathering! Double Segue...Belated Paz Report: I heard that Michael and the Preservation Hall Jazz Band were coming to Seattle, so I thought it would be a great opportunity to meet him and welcome him to the Emerald City. Sadly, I turned out to be a rather dorky welcome hostess. The night before the concert, I got lost (in my own dang city) trying to meet him for a wind-down Seattle seafood dinner after his long tour bus ride from Arizona. He ended up having to find me, and also find a restaurant before he starved to death. He remained ever gracious. The next evening, Michael got me a great seat for the band's concert at the Paramount, and the experience surpassed all of my expectations. The venue was set up with table seating on the floor and balcony seats above. The band was great, and I happened to get seated next to two young girls who didn't care that I was an old fart. The three of us went up to the front of the stage and started dancing, and pretty soon, more joined us. At the end, in New Orleans style, a whole group of audience members came up and formed a dancing chain. We wove through every aisle in the hall and finally ended up on stage behind the band, dancing our fool heads off. Then out came the beads and coins, and it was Mardi Gras! Post-concert, we went to one of the band-member's room in the quite swanky Hyatt Hotel, and had some snackage. I successfully de-tuned Michael's guitar to my "Coyote" tuning. I wonder if he was ever able to fix it. Anyway, thank you Michael for giving me a great experience in my city. You were the true host, and I was a lucky guest. Thanks, Jill __,_._,___ ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #79 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)