From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #58 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, February 22 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 058 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: : BSN change in style [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: BSN change in style? ["Stephen Toogood" ] RE : Cyndi Lauper's performance of "Carey" ["Sherelle Smith" ] RE: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Enhancing Joni ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 [Mark-Leon Thorne ] BSN other side of mirror [Kate Johnson ] Re: BSN other side of mirror [Motitan@aol.com] Joni's guitar tunings/Jonifest [Motitan@aol.com] Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 [Doug ] Re: BSN other side of mirror [Paul In MD ] RE : Billie Holiday and latter-era singers SJC [Joseph Palis Subject: Re: : BSN change in style Part of me just wants to let this subject drop and let people believe what they want (because no matter how many time I post this info, that's what going to happen, lol!), but I've always been one to correct factual errors, so: Joni called BSN and TL contractual ogligation albums. Joni said she wasn't writing songs. (Not me, not Bob, not someone lese who doesn't like the albums, not the critics, but Joni.) None of which should interfere with your enjoyment of the music. Michael Flaherty _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:10:15 +0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 Real nice to hear some of these songs live. From what she says in her banter between tracks, the show was recorded before STAS. A lot of the songs from that album are really close in the performances, and the quality is surprisingly great. Pirate Of Penance was especially good. Steve >From: Mark-Leon Thorne >Reply-To: Mark-Leon Thorne >To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com >CC: JMDL >Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:23:28 +1100 > >Thanks very much, Bob for this link. It's very rare to get mp3s from the >web. Only problem is, now I'm confused. I had a copy of Joni at Club 47 but >this performance is different. Different tracklist. Mostly the same songs >(with the exception of Come To The Sunshine, which has been left off this >one) but in a different sequence. Does anyone know if there was more than >one recording made of her performance at Club 47? > >Mark in Sydney > >NP Conversation (Club 47) - JM _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail, News, Sport and Entertainment from MSN on your mobile. http://www.msn.txt4content.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:16:27 +0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Have to say I like TLOG a lot, though I feel it would have been more effective as a single disc. BSN however, I really struggled to hear anything moving. The strings were so borring, and to be honest, a synthesizer may as well have been used. It's rather laughable it took a 60 piece orchestra to create something so dull. Steve >From: Victor Johnson >Reply-To: Victor Johnson >To: missblux@googlemail.com >CC: "Azeem Ali Khan" , "Joni LIST" > >Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:49:05 -0500 > >And as much as I love BSN, I don't really like Travelogue and never >listen to it so I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, in the abyss. >Fortunately, I have a hang glider with me...:) > >Victor > >NP: The Rude Awakening, 680AM > > > > > > > > >On Feb 21, 2007, at 5:54 AM, missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > >>What is truly vertiginous is the abyss that divides our opinions here... >>;-) >>Bn >> >>On 2/21/07, Azeem Ali Khan wrote: >>> >>>Paul wrote >>> >>> >>> > Come to think of it, Joni's changed not just her style -- she's >>>changed >>>her voice. That happens to artists. However, many try to recreate >>>songs >>>from their past catalogue but can't hit the mark anymore. When that >>>happens, it simply draws attention to what they have lost. Joni does >>>not >>>try to recreate, she reinterprets her songs so that she can still sing >>>them >>>and does not end up a caricature of her former self. In that respect, >>>she's >>>done a fine job. >>> >>> >>>Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to your >>>ears, >>>she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in >>>surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to my >>>ears, >>>merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. >>> >>>I'll never lose the faith, so I await her new album with a mixture of >>>hope >>>and trepidation... >>> >>>Azeem in London _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail is evolving  check out the new Windows Live Mail http://ideas.live.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:26:20 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: RE : Cyndi Lauper's performance of "Carey" You are so welcome Joseph! I'm so glad I was able to help you see this wonderful performance! Many of the artists were very nervous aobut performing in front of Joni. I am wondering if that is a secret reason she did not attend the tribute at Carnegie Hall. Yes, I was dissapointed she wasn't there as well but I remember seeing how nervous Shawn Colvin was and hearing her speak about it during that TNT tribute. Anyone else remember that? And Joseph, I will go over things spoken about Joni here in the past a million times with pleasure! Each time will seem like new my friend! You can never over-do Joni! Love, Sherelle Joseph wrote: Thanks for sharing this link, Sherrelle. Being one of the last folks in JMDL-dom to catch up on things people already talked about concerning Joni, I was unprepared at the almost improvisational feel of Cyndi Lauper's performance. I thought she looked a bit nervous at the swaying mid-tempo beat of the first part of the song. But when she flattened notes at the second chorus, it was chill-inducing. And who was that hornman who looked like Stan Getz who had a brief duet with Cyndi? I don't know about you all but everytime I see a hornman and a singer occupying the same space, I think of Billie and Lester Young, or Etta Jones and Houston Person. Hair-raising. I don't know if I am more thrilled seeing Lauper do her slithery snake-like undulations or seeing Joni swaying to the quiet syncopation of the beat of the song. Very beautiful. Thanks for giving me a space to relax after an exhausting read of Walter Benjamin. Joseph in sunny and 68-degree-weather Chapel Hill _________________________________________________________________ Want a degree but can't afford to quit? Top school degrees online - in as fast as 1 year http://forms.nextag.com/goto.jsp?url=/serv/main/buyer/education.jsp?doSearch=n&tm=y&search=education_text_links_88_h288c&s=4079&p=5116 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:35:03 EST From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest Just a reminder that all money and release forms for Jonifest should be in by now. There is still room if you want to join us! If you have any raffle items, please contact me as soon as possible. Hugs, Ashara


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:45:23 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Enhancing Joni Hi Dave. I love what you've done with the recordings you've enhanced so far. I guess it's a talent I'm envious of. What I would really love to hear is your talents put to use on some of the old scratchy bootlegs. They are screaming for your attention. Like Club 47 for example. Mark in Sydney NP The Gift of The Magi - JM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:00:33 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 Here are details for the better Club 47 recording followed by details for the boot: Joni Mitchell Live at Club 47 This version of a Joni Soundboard recording is vastly superior to the version available on bootleg called "By the Banks of the River Charles." It is A- quality (A with a few glitches here & there, certainly A for 1968!) It has 3 never-released Joni songs: "Gift of the Magi," "Ballerina Valerie," and "The Way it Is" Becasue the boot has all the same songs (in different order) plus a 4th additional never-released Joni song, "Come to the Sunshine" I have includsed that track here. I have also included a text file with the different track order from the boot. I don't know of anyone who has established the actual order of the set. downloaded on the JMDL DC++ Hub http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net/ Hub address: 66.133.144.133:411 Visit http://wwww.jmdl.com/ for infor on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List and much info about Joni. Official Joni Mitchell page http://www.jonimitchell.com Please buy her official recordings. 01. Cactus Tree 02. Morning Morgantown 03. Conversation 04. Gift Of the Magi 05. Chelsea Morning 06. Song To A Seagull 07. I Had A King 08. Night In The City 09. Ballerina Valerie 10. Pirates Of Penance 11. The Way It Is 12. Dawn treader 13. Both Sides Now Additional track from the bootleg "By the Banks of the River Charles": xx. Come to the Sunshine Recorded live in Cambridge, MA 10 JAN 68 Track Order from the inferior bootleg "Banks of the River Charles") Joni Mitchell Club 47 Cambridge, MA January (?), 1968 (Exact date is in question, probably January 10. Joni played here from the 8th through the 10th.) This is the boot commonly known as "By The Banks of the River Charles" Set list: 01) Night in the City 02) Gift of the Magi 03) I had a King 04) Morning Morgantown 05) Ballerina Valerie 06) Song to a Seagull 07) Both Sides Now 08) Cactus Tree 09) Conversation 10) Come to the Sunsgine 11) Chelsea Morning 12) Pirate of Penance 13) The Way It Is 14) Dawntreader - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Mark-Leon Thorne Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:23 AM To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Cc: JMDL Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 Thanks very much, Bob for this link. It's very rare to get mp3s from the web. Only problem is, now I'm confused. I had a copy of Joni at Club 47 but this performance is different. Different tracklist. Mostly the same songs (with the exception of Come To The Sunshine, which has been left off this one) but in a different sequence. Does anyone know if there was more than one recording made of her performance at Club 47? Mark in Sydney NP Conversation (Club 47) - JM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:28:56 +0000 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: RE: Enhancing Joni I second that, what you did on THOSL was really noticable. What you could do on something like club 47 could be amazing! Steve >From: Mark-Leon Thorne >Reply-To: Mark-Leon Thorne >To: Dave Blackburn >CC: JMDL >Subject: Enhancing Joni >Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:45:23 +1100 > >Hi Dave. I love what you've done with the recordings you've enhanced so >far. I guess it's a talent I'm envious of. What I would really love to hear >is your talents put to use on some of the old scratchy bootlegs. They are >screaming for your attention. Like Club 47 for example. > >Mark in Sydney > >NP The Gift of The Magi - JM _________________________________________________________________ MSN Hotmail is evolving  check out the new Windows Live Mail http://ideas.live.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:56:06 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 Thanks Richard for clearing that up for me. It seems that I had the version you say is lesser quality and the link that Bob gave was the other one. I have to disagree with you analysis of their quality though. After listening to both, I think the so called, "By The Banks of The River Charles" version is a better copy. It may just be the copy that was posted on the web but, I have found lots of jumps in that version. Like it was an old vinyl copy. I can hear now that it is the same performance because she says the same things between songs but it has been cut up differently. An introduction to a song appears at the beginning of the song on one recording and at the end of the previous song on the other recording. This may give me the clues to the correct track order. If I can figure that out, I'll let everyone know. Mark in Sydney. On 22/02/2007, at 10:00 AM, Richard Flynn wrote: > Here are details for the better Club 47 recording followed by details > for > the boot: > > Joni Mitchell > Live at Club 47 > > This version of a Joni Soundboard recording is vastly superior to the > version available on bootleg called "By the Banks of the River > Charles." > > It is A- quality (A with a few glitches here & there, certainly A for > 1968!) > It has 3 never-released Joni songs: "Gift of the Magi," "Ballerina > Valerie," > and "The Way it Is" Becasue the boot has all the same songs (in > different > order) plus a 4th additional never-released Joni song, "Come to the > Sunshine" I have includsed that track here. I have also included a > text > file with the different track order from the boot. I don't know of > anyone > who has established the actual order of the set. > > downloaded on the JMDL DC++ Hub > > http://dcplusplus.sourceforge.net/ > > Hub address: > 66.133.144.133:411 > > Visit http://wwww.jmdl.com/ for infor on the Joni Mitchell Discussion > List > and much info > about Joni. > > Official Joni Mitchell page > > http://www.jonimitchell.com > > Please buy her official recordings. > > > 01. Cactus Tree > 02. Morning Morgantown > 03. Conversation > 04. Gift Of the Magi > 05. Chelsea Morning > 06. Song To A Seagull > 07. I Had A King > 08. Night In The City > 09. Ballerina Valerie > 10. Pirates Of Penance > 11. The Way It Is > 12. Dawn treader > 13. Both Sides Now > > Additional track from the bootleg "By the Banks of the River Charles": > > xx. Come to the Sunshine > > Recorded live in Cambridge, MA > 10 JAN 68 > > > > Track Order from the inferior bootleg "Banks of the River Charles") > Joni Mitchell > Club 47 > Cambridge, MA > January (?), 1968 > (Exact date is in question, probably January 10. Joni played here > from the > 8th through the 10th.) > > This is the boot commonly known as > "By The Banks of the River Charles" > > Set list: > 01) Night in the City > 02) Gift of the Magi > 03) I had a King > 04) Morning Morgantown > 05) Ballerina Valerie > 06) Song to a Seagull > 07) Both Sides Now > 08) Cactus Tree > 09) Conversation > 10) Come to the Sunsgine > 11) Chelsea Morning > 12) Pirate of Penance > 13) The Way It Is > 14) Dawntreader > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of > Mark-Leon Thorne > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:23 AM > To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Cc: JMDL > Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 > > Thanks very much, Bob for this link. It's very rare to get mp3s from > the web. Only problem is, now I'm confused. I had a copy of Joni at > Club 47 but this performance is different. Different tracklist. Mostly > the same songs (with the exception of Come To The Sunshine, which has > been left off this one) but in a different sequence. Does anyone know > if there was more than one recording made of her performance at Club > 47? > > Mark in Sydney > > NP Conversation (Club 47) - JM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:28:37 -0600 From: Kate Johnson Subject: BSN other side of mirror On 21-Feb-07, at 12:35 PM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to > your ears, > she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in > surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to > my ears, > merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. Such different experiences we are having! Lately when I've gone to my stack of Joni CDs here in my home office, I've eschewed BSN, saying to myself, though I adore that CD, that if I'm only listening to one JM CD today, let it be one with her own songs. Then the other day I let myself put on BSN and oh my god, the pleasure it gave me... she has done a masterful job here, I think, of making these songs her own and making me love them. The orchestration, which you find saccharine, I find very "Joni" and her voice, which you hear as a caricature of her former voice (if I've understood you), I find incredibly beautiful and natural on this CD. It's not her bell-like young-woman's voice, but it's a beautiful voice just the same, so full of emotion, strength and depth. I'm sorry you aren't hearing what I am. Every time I really listen to the CD, I'm more astounded and fall more in love with it... the whole package. I hope some day you will take pleasure from it. Heaven knows some of Joni's CDs have taken lots of time to grow on me. Kate of the North http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:06:22 EST From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN other side of mirror It's so very strange that when it comes to music, everyone has their supposed "peak" and everyone compares everything else to whatever was made in that peak. If all of Joni's music doesn't sound like Blue it's just not as good (I'm talking critics/some fans here/not you people haha!). Now I can't actually say anything about BSN and I have not heard it. I have only heard what I heard in the WOHAM DVD. They showed her recording the song BSN with the new flow to it. But it's so funny how this happens with all musicians/bands. Elton John once said that every artist (or atleast viable artist is how I took it) has a five year period that they can do whatever they want musically speaking and be loved for it...after that circumstances change as far as the rest of the world is concerned. People don't like change too much perhaps? But it's funny because music is the only thing, creatively speaking, that that happens to. People write books, paint paintings, etc etc and everyone looks forward to MORE in the future. If someone just wrote the same book over and over again it'd get pretty old fast and I doubt he/she would have many readers (although some tell me that Janet Evanovitch just writes the same thing and she is still popular.....I don't know as I haven't read her). It's just so strange, how people cling to certain things but look forward to others in different formats? You understand what I'm saying here? - -Monika


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:17:45 EST From: Motitan@aol.com Subject: Joni's guitar tunings/Jonifest I finally got around to taking a look at the guitar tabs for "Night In The City." At first it was a bit hard to form that very first chord....and you see I have very small hands so I don't get what the problem was (I'm a very petite girl as some of you will see at Jonifest). That's the first time I had trouble starting to play something. Now I just have to keep focused enough to learn the entire thing! Anyway, I really do like the tuning that Joni uses on this song. I looked it up in the JMDL guitar tabs. It has such a pretty ring to it and I've been figuring out a bunch of chords with that tuning. I'm even really excited in learning more of Joni's songs just so that I can expand myself moreso musically. With all these different tunings, a whole new door has been opened as far as the guitar is concerned! That's why I love playing guitar. There's no end to the possibilities with it. You won't wake up one day and think, "well I have mastered the guitar...I know everything..." That's just impossible and silly really! Speaking of all these guitar tunings, I'm looking forward to hearing/seeing you who are attending Jonifest. I'm going to bring a notepad and pen to jot down all these different tunings and random notes about the songs. You may think I am kidding but just wait! Jonifest will be an event for entertainment but also a quest for knowledge! - -Monika


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:39:59 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 I have three versions of this one from different sources and they all sound different, from horrible/not listenable to very good/very listenable. Except that the VG/VL one had a lot of bad edits so I pieced together a complete version using missing bits from the bad versions, after EQing and speed correcting, carefully edited into the good version - not sure if that made sense to anyone - The result is that I have a clean and complete copy. I can't remember if I sent this to anyone. Maybe I'll send a copy down SC way for distribution. Doug Joni Mitchell Club 47, Cambridge,MA By The Banks Of The River Charles Jan. 4? 1968 1) Cactus Tree 2) Night In The City 3) Gift Of The Magi 4) I Had A King 5) Morning Morgantown 6) Vali 7) Song To A Seagull 8) Both Sides Now 9) Conversation 10) Come To The Sunshine 11) Chelsea Morning 12) Pirate Of Penance 13) The Way It Is 14) The Dawntreader ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:54:27 -0800 (PST) From: Paul In MD Subject: Re: BSN other side of mirror That's exactly what I enjoy so much about this list. We agree to disagree and it's all rather civilized. It's pretty darn interesting when you think about it. Our ears hear the same piece of music but, after our mind finishes filtering it, we don't hear the same piece of music. No one is right or wrong -- it's just our perception of the art. Kate, I understand your wish for Azeem to be able to hear BSN the way you hear it. I'd like to hear Turbulent Indigo they way people that truly love it do. I like it but I miss how Joni's words seemed to tumble out on earlier albums. Compare "Come In From The Cold" and "Sunny Sunday" and you'll see what I mean. I think they're both fine songs -- I just miss the style of writing on the earlier work. I remember the Washington Post ran a review of NRH and the headline was "Joni Mitchell: Last of the Literary". They were rather prophetic because I consider NRH Joni's last "literary" work. I think she's finished with that style of composing. Paul In MD - -- whose vocabulary expanded by two words today: inchoate and vertiginous Kate Johnson wrote: Such different experiences we are having! ... I hope some day you will take pleasure from it. Heaven knows some of Joni's CDs have taken lots of time to grow on me. Azeem Ali Khan wrote: Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to your ears, she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to my ears, merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. - --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 07:18:09 +0100 (CET) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE : Billie Holiday and latter-era singers SJC I like Billie too. Her voice and storytelling skills especially in the late 1950s eclipse the bouyancy of her performances when she was more youthful. But I am sure that's just me since I know a lot of people who gravitated to her era with Teddy Wilson in the late 1930s. Joni's voice in BSN does bear comparison to latter-era Billie. Especially when one realizes that their youthful voices were more agile then and more flexible and able to change dynamics with ease. I like Joni's BSN period and although Vince Mendoza may not be in the same league as Ray Ellis (especially in Billie's "Last Recording" album), the BSN string arrangements which sometimes tend to overwhelm Joni's vocals, sound good to my ears. Maybe it is hearing Joni sing standards from the American popular song, or maybe I like to hear the mature voices of singers (excepting the last recordings of Anita O' Day, Ella Fitzgerald and Lena Horne), but BSN works for me big time. There is a timelessness to the whole proceedings that may appeal to music listeners of the future generation. The way Joni simply sings "You've changed" with an abruptness as though stating and accepting a cruel fact, kills me every time. There was no prolongation of notes for faux pathos. Matter-of-fact even. Like wisdom from years of life experiences. Someone mentioned Blossom Dearie earlier and I too love this woman. Her voice bears the insouciant girlishness of her recordings with Ray Brown in the 50s. I wish I could see her in Danny Skylight too before it's too late. It is as though I know this woman from years of listening to her recordings. I always remember her definitive versions of "Tout doucement" and "Manhattan" but then maybe that's because I am a fan of hers. There have been singers that I always wanted to see perform live. Like Abbey Lincoln, Sheila Jordan. Or Cleo Laine. Maybe Ernestine Anderson. Women whose musicianship remains undiminished with the passing years. Or at least as their recorded outputs reveal. I just wish I won't be as disappointed as when I saw and heard (Little) Jimmy Scott perform a song in Carnegie Hall that honored Joni. Joseph in Chapel Hill - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez une nouvelle fagon d'obtenir des riponses ` toutes vos questions ! Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expiriences des internautes sur Yahoo! Questions/Riponses. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #58 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)