From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #57 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, February 21 2007 Volume 2007 : Number 057 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: BSN change in style? ["Azeem Ali Khan" ] Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 [Mark-Leon Thorne ] Re: BSN change in style? [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: BSN change in style? [missblux@googlemail.com] Lauper sings Carey [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: BSN change in style? [Victor Johnson ] Re: BSN change in style? [Smurf ] Re: BSN change in style? [missblux@googlemail.com] [Fwd: Re: BSN change in style?] ["L. Bruce Vaughn" ] Re: BSN change in style? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: BSN change in style? ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: BSN change in style? ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: BSN change in style? [missblux@googlemail.com] Re: BSN change in style? ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: BSN change in style? ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: BSN change in style? ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: BSN change in style? [waytoblue@comcast.net] Re: Joni's piano playing [Dave Blackburn ] Re: BSN change in style? ["Marion Leffler" ] Re: BSN change in style? [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 ["rflynn@frontiernet.net" ] Re: BSN change in style? [Jerry Notaro ] Joni's Starbucks Opus Collection CD ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: [Fwd: Re: BSN change in style?] [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] : BSN change in style [missblux@googlemail.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:24:14 +0000 From: "Azeem Ali Khan" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Paul wrote Come to think of it, Joni's changed not just her style -- she's changed her > voice. That happens to artists. However, many try to recreate songs from > their past catalogue but can't hit the mark anymore. When that happens, it > simply draws attention to what they have lost. Joni does not try to > recreate, she reinterprets her songs so that she can still sing them and > does not end up a caricature of her former self. In that respect, she's > done a fine job. Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to your ears, she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to my ears, merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. I'll never lose the faith, so I await her new album with a mixture of hope and trepidation... Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:23:28 +1100 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 Thanks very much, Bob for this link. It's very rare to get mp3s from the web. Only problem is, now I'm confused. I had a copy of Joni at Club 47 but this performance is different. Different tracklist. Mostly the same songs (with the exception of Come To The Sunshine, which has been left off this one) but in a different sequence. Does anyone know if there was more than one recording made of her performance at Club 47? Mark in Sydney NP Conversation (Club 47) - JM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:45:44 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Hi Marion, I so agree. It's as if she is even in dialogue with herself - and saying I really don't know life at all all at the same time as she says I really know now. So much in a song! I saw the "gee Joni..." quotation somewhere and was reminded not to trust critics. Best Bene Stuck in Britain On 2/20/07, Marion Leffler wrote: > God how I envy you lucky so and so's :-) who get so see Joni perform! I love > Both Sides Now, especially the song. I can't decide though which of the two > versions I like better but the latest one surely has the quality of life > experience that gives it much more character and credibility than the first > one, while in the first version it's Joni's beautiful voice that makes the > song. I remember thinking when I first heard the 60's version "How can she > now know all that yet, she's too young". Well, now that she knows she sings > it with so much more feeling and conviction. > As for her voice having "detoriated" - well, it has aged like the rest of > her body. I read a really nasty article (by whom I've forgotten now but it's > in the jmdl-library) where the journalist was saying something like "Gee, > Joni, if you had to make this album, couldn't you have done it before your > voice broke?" Now, why should the voice of a mature woman sound like that of > a young girl? Wouldn't that be kind of creepy? Just wondering... > From up North in Europe > Marion > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; "Joni LIST" ; "Laurent Olszer" > ; > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:43 PM > Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > > > >I love BSN as well and I would count it as one of my favorite albums by > >Joni. After catching her performance at Chastain (along with Muller and > >several other jmdl folk) my appreciation of it grew, having had a chance to > >see these songs live. It gave them a warmth that seems to be lacking in > >the recording which would be my only criticism of BSN. I would like to see > >it remastered though considering how long the others are taking I'll > >probably have to wait till 2020. > > > > Victor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > From: missblux@googlemail.com > > > >> But, BSN fan as I am, I keep wondering what it is about this album > >> that makes me rate it as second after Hejira, whereas so many people > >> will rate it as number 20 (or however many albums she made). I copy > >> Laurent in on this because we discussed the album when we met in > >> London, and Mack, a fellow BSN enthusiast. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:54:14 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: BSN change in style? What is truly vertiginous is the abyss that divides our opinions here... ;-) Bn On 2/21/07, Azeem Ali Khan wrote: > > Paul wrote > > > > Come to think of it, Joni's changed not just her style -- she's changed > her voice. That happens to artists. However, many try to recreate songs > from their past catalogue but can't hit the mark anymore. When that > happens, it simply draws attention to what they have lost. Joni does not > try to recreate, she reinterprets her songs so that she can still sing them > and does not end up a caricature of her former self. In that respect, she's > done a fine job. > > > Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to your ears, > she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in > surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to my ears, > merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. > > I'll never lose the faith, so I await her new album with a mixture of hope > and trepidation... > > Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:56:54 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Lauper sings Carey Wow! Another ear-and-eye-opener! So beautiful! Bn Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:06:27 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Cyndi Lauper's performance of "Carey" While listening to other clips graciously submitted by Vincenzo, I ran across this clip of the TNT tribute performance of Cyndi Lauper's "Carey". You can see Joni getting into it and singing along! It was absolutely fabulous! Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg5b7yrooLs&mode=related&search= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:49:05 -0500 From: Victor Johnson Subject: Re: BSN change in style? And as much as I love BSN, I don't really like Travelogue and never listen to it so I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, in the abyss. Fortunately, I have a hang glider with me...:) Victor NP: The Rude Awakening, 680AM On Feb 21, 2007, at 5:54 AM, missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > What is truly vertiginous is the abyss that divides our opinions > here... ;-) > Bn > > On 2/21/07, Azeem Ali Khan wrote: >> >> Paul wrote >> >> >> > Come to think of it, Joni's changed not just her style -- she's >> changed >> her voice. That happens to artists. However, many try to >> recreate songs >> from their past catalogue but can't hit the mark anymore. When that >> happens, it simply draws attention to what they have lost. Joni >> does not >> try to recreate, she reinterprets her songs so that she can still >> sing them >> and does not end up a caricature of her former self. In that >> respect, she's >> done a fine job. >> >> >> Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to >> your ears, >> she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in >> surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to >> my ears, >> merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. >> >> I'll never lose the faith, so I await her new album with a mixture >> of hope >> and trepidation... >> >> Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 04:59:58 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: BSN change in style? - --- Marion Leffler wrote: > Now, why should the voice of a mature > woman sound like that of > a young girl? Wouldn't that be kind of creepy? Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it was never creepy. The reviewer you talked about was out of line and extremely ageist, Marion. I think a older person's voice can be wonderful, especially when it belongs to someone who has spent her life mastering all kinds of vocal challenges, such as phrasing. - --Smurf, closing in on 1700 unread posts . . . Is it true Joni and Larry broke up? No way! Where will she get her inspiration? . ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:21:50 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Well we're gonna glide into each other probably because I don't listen to Tlog much either, because there are some songs that I don't like. Its a pity though because there are some that have meant a lot to me. Love, and the way she picks up 'oh my love my darling' on chinese cafe. Oh the poor people who don't get it.... ;-( Bn On 2/21/07, Victor Johnson wrote: > > And as much as I love BSN, I don't really like Travelogue and never > listen to it so I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, in the abyss. > Fortunately, I have a hang glider with me...:) > > Victor > > NP: The Rude Awakening, 680AM > > > > > > > > > On Feb 21, 2007, at 5:54 AM, missblux@googlemail.com wrote: > > > What is truly vertiginous is the abyss that divides our opinions > > here... ;-) > > Bn > > > > On 2/21/07, Azeem Ali Khan wrote: > >> > >> Paul wrote > >> > >> > >> > Come to think of it, Joni's changed not just her style -- she's > >> changed > >> her voice. That happens to artists. However, many try to > >> recreate songs > >> from their past catalogue but can't hit the mark anymore. When that > >> happens, it simply draws attention to what they have lost. Joni > >> does not > >> try to recreate, she reinterprets her songs so that she can still > >> sing them > >> and does not end up a caricature of her former self. In that > >> respect, she's > >> done a fine job. > >> > >> > >> Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to > >> your ears, > >> she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in > >> surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to > >> my ears, > >> merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. > >> > >> I'll never lose the faith, so I await her new album with a mixture > >> of hope > >> and trepidation... > >> > >> Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:21:47 -0700 From: "L. Bruce Vaughn" Subject: [Fwd: Re: BSN change in style?] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:14:34 -0700 From: L. Bruce Vaughn To: Azeem Ali Khan References: <225627.88114.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6f550b70702210124s10abc804j768a241ec5e0fe7@mail.gmail.com> BSN is an odd duck, not only for Joni recording songs she didn't write but the timing of it so closely following the overall blistering she got from the critics for TTT. Joni's voice through aged and cigarette burned is exactly, I believe, as she intended it to be. It depends on which version of BSN you have. As I understand it, the jewel case edition was never intended to be released until the original limited edition "candy box" set (released 6 weeks before the jewel case edition) sold out almost immediately. It was only after the quick sell out and mass demand of the special edition that the jewel case edition was released in late March of 2000. If you are lucky enough to have nailed one of the candy box first editions you'll get likenesses (full image) of Joni's paintings. The front and back cover art on the jewel case were clipped, especially the back image of Joni sitting in a bar smoking but what is clipped out is Joni's cigarette smoke wafting up around a "No Smoking" sign. I always saw that as an intentional "f..k you" retort to the critics who blasted her for being "negative" or "couldn't write anymore" on TTT. The album was never mastered to it's fullest sound capabilities, even the DVD-A version of the album is flat. I have a spectrally re-enhanced version of the album that I did for myself (I won't call it remastering as I do not have master tapes) but once you punch up the sonics and adjust some frequencies, you really understand what a piece of brilliant satire the whole album is. If she had been able to sing these with the more soprano'ish voice of her earlier years, she'd have been laughed off the face of the earth. Her vocals are just perfect as they are and fit the mood of the album, so are the arrangements. This is not an album you can listen to in passing before it hits you, you need to get your headphones, put the disc in, turn out the lights and let it play so no one but Joni is in your world... It will win you over. Bruce in AZ... > Paul wrote > > >Come to think of it, Joni's changed not just her style -- she's changed her > > >>voice. That happens to artists. However, many try to recreate songs from >>their past catalogue but can't hit the mark anymore. When that happens, it >>simply draws attention to what they have lost. Joni does not try to >>recreate, she reinterprets her songs so that she can still sing them and >>does not end up a caricature of her former self. In that respect, she's >>done a fine job. >> >> > > >Ah, just goes to show: to my ears, Joni has done exactly what, to your ears, >she hasn't done (end up as a caricature of her former self), and in >surrounding herself with all that saccharine orchestration has, to my ears, >merely emphasised the vertiginous decline of her voice. > >I'll never lose the faith, so I await her new album with a mixture of hope >and trepidation... > >Azeem in London [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of BSNback.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:41:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice > sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it > was never creepy. Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as pure in tone and vibrato as a teen's. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:00:23 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 I don't know for sure, but I feel strongly that there was just this one. It was broadcast on a college radio station there in Cambridge, MA and was bootlegged as "By The Banks of the River Charles". As is often the case with bootlegs, sometimes the songs are reconfigured and it gets bootlegged as something else. Anyway, I'm glad you were able to snag and enjoy the recordings. Bob NP: Ani, "Evolve" 10.25.03 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:07:13 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a woman- or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest of their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! Marion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" ; ; ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" ; Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > >> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >> was never creepy. > > Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as > pure > in tone and vibrato as a teen's. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 09:29:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? What in heaven's name does listening to a voice have anything to do with someone's body? Marion Leffler wrote: > Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! > It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a woman- > or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest of > their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! > Marion > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Notaro" > To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" > ; ; > ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" > ; > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM > Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > > >> >>> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >>> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >>> was never creepy. >> >> Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as >> pure >> in tone and vibrato as a teen's. >> >> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:49:36 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: Re: BSN change in style? I prefer Billie! I think most people agree that when her voice deteriorated her art did not. But maybe that.s something I got off an album cover. Maybe some people can't listen to her later recordings either? BN On 2/21/07, Jerry Notaro wrote: > > > Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice > > sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it > > was never creepy. > > Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as pure > in tone and vibrato as a teen's. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:55:29 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Everything! It has to do with the person's entire presence. A voice cannot be seperated and be abstract, not to me anyway. It belongs in a body. So there! Marion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Notaro" To: "Marion Leffler" Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" ; ; ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" ; Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:29 PM Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > What in heaven's name does listening to a voice have anything to do with > someone's body? > > Marion Leffler wrote: >> Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! >> It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a >> woman- >> or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest of >> their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! >> Marion >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jerry Notaro" >> To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" >> ; ; >> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" >> ; >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM >> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >> >> >>> >>>> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >>>> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >>>> was never creepy. >>> >>> Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as >>> pure >>> in tone and vibrato as a teen's. >>> >>> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:00:47 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? And if I'm wrong why don't we instead listen to computercreated voices? They'd never change unless we wanted them to...And while we're at it, do we need human artists at all? Marion, a little put off but still smiling:) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald A. Notaro" To: "Marion Leffler" Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" ; ; ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" ; Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:29 PM Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > What in heaven's name does listening to a voice have anything to do with > someone's body? > > Marion Leffler wrote: >> Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! >> It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a >> woman- >> or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest of >> their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! >> Marion >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jerry Notaro" >> To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" >> ; ; >> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" >> ; >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM >> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >> >> >>> >>>> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >>>> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >>>> was never creepy. >>> >>> Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as >>> pure >>> in tone and vibrato as a teen's. >>> >>> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:19:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? I have no idea why you be put off by someone having a civil discussion with someone who doesn't agree with you, but no one is talking about computer created voices. Truth be told, electronics have had a lot to do with altering voices in performance and recording for about 90 years. Since 99.99% of what we listen to has nothing to do with watching the person perform, my question remains, what does it matter what they look like? I have many, many times listened to and enjoyed singers without at all knowing a thing about whether they are big, small, black, white, or one armed. Hell, I didn't even know Jimmy Scott was a man for years. Jerry Marion Leffler wrote: > And if I'm wrong why don't we instead listen to computercreated voices? > They'd never change unless we wanted them to...And while we're at it, do > we > need human artists at all? > Marion, a little put off but still smiling:) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerald A. Notaro" > To: "Marion Leffler" > Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" > ; > ; ; "Joni List" > ; "Laurent Olszer" ; > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > > >> What in heaven's name does listening to a voice have anything to do with >> someone's body? >> >> Marion Leffler wrote: >>> Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! >>> It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a >>> woman- >>> or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest of >>> their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! >>> Marion >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerry Notaro" >>> To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" >>> ; ; >>> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent >>> Olszer" >>> ; >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >>>>> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >>>>> was never creepy. >>>> >>>> Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as >>>> pure >>>> in tone and vibrato as a teen's. >>>> >>>> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:15:50 +0000 From: waytoblue@comcast.net Subject: Re: BSN change in style? -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Marion Leffler" > And if I'm wrong why don't we instead listen to computercreated voices? Because we like voices that are natural and genuine with the little nuances that are only found in the human voice. I've always thought that Ozzy Osbourne sounded better on the early Black Sabbath than his later solo recordings simply because his voice had a more natural, raw sound than the over produced sound of the latter.[Be that as it may, Ozzfest is free this year and I'll be ordering my tickets so I can see the original B.S. lineup] So if that is the case, why then would we not simply accept the singer in question's body as it is? I suppose you could harness the magic of digital video editing and create the ideal body to go with the voice you hear. Maybe someday this could even be superimposed over them in a live performance. Victor, smiling ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:13:47 -0800 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: Joni's piano playing Just a reminder that my piano transcription of "Down to You" (with whole middle section) is available as a pdf file from the "guitar tabs" section of jmdl.com for those who read notation. And speaking of Joni piano transcriptions my hat is way off to Michael Gibbs for figuring out the "dream sequence" in Paprika Plains so he could orchestrate it; that's some dense harmony!! Dave B p.s Currently working on bringing "Song to a Seagull" out of the tunnel and into the room. Stay tuned for the link.... On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:00 AM, onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:47:15 EST > From: PassScribe@aol.com > Subject: Joni's piano playing > > Motitan@aol.com > Subject: I had forgot.....Joni's piano playing... > > I had asked your favorite singing and guitar playing of Joni's but > didn't > ask what are your favorite piano peformances or piano bits by > her. I mean > she's played almost as much piano as guitar if not the same amount > (well I'm > not > familiar with her later works yet so I don't know about those) so > it's > almost > unfair not to ask. So what are your favorite piano parts/piano > songs by > Joni? Why those? > - - -monika > > Hi, Monika, > Not only is "Down To You" (from the C&S album) my favorite > song but it's > also my favorite piano playing (in the beginning & the middle, > especially... > very sensitive and heartfelt... the beginning has that fading to > softness and > slight pause between bars, that prepares you for the story to > come). I've > raved so much about this song on the JMDL that I'm afraid they'll > get tired of > me > mentioning it by now ;-) > I also like to turn the lights off, lie on the floor & listen to > "Judgement Of The Moon & Stars/Ludwig's Tune" from For The Roses, > for the > piano work > in that one as well. > > Kenny B > (Hey, I was just going to "send" this but decided to read what > others > had written in the next batch of mail and, what do I find? > Jill wrote: > Down to You-- Court and Spark > Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's Tune) --For the Roses > Paprika Plains--Don Juan's Reckless Daughter) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:07:44 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? I was put off because I felt misunderstood, not because of somebody having a different point of view. Anyhow, my original response was in reply to those who find Joni's voice has changed and who obviously prefer her younger voice. Then the discussion suddenly turned to bodies, and ideal bodies at that! All I was saying was that voices age together with the rest of bodies and that I for one accept that fact of life. If somebody sounds much younger than he or she is it feels weird to me. I wasn't referring to looks and appearance but to a person's presence but maybe I can't express myself properly, English not being my native language. Peace! Marion - --- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Leffler" To: Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" ; ; ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" ; Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:00 PM Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > And if I'm wrong why don't we instead listen to computercreated voices? > They'd never change unless we wanted them to...And while we're at it, do > we need human artists at all? > Marion, a little put off but still smiling:) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerald A. Notaro" > To: "Marion Leffler" > Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" > ; ; > ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" > ; > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:29 PM > Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > > >> What in heaven's name does listening to a voice have anything to do with >> someone's body? >> >> Marion Leffler wrote: >>> Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! >>> It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a >>> woman- >>> or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest of >>> their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! >>> Marion >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jerry Notaro" >>> To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" >>> ; ; >>> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" >>> ; >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >>>>> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >>>>> was never creepy. >>>> >>>> Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as >>>> pure >>>> in tone and vibrato as a teen's. >>>> >>>> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:23:34 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >>>I prefer Billie! I think most people agree that when her voice deteriorated her art did not. But maybe that.s something I got off an album cover. Maybe some people can't listen to her later recordings either? BN For what's it's worth, Joni has a great love for the later Billie recordings, and in one interview even expressed a preference for them. I tend to agree with her, although for me it might have more to do with the arrangements than her voice. Michael Flaherty _____________________________________________________________________________ _______ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:32:00 -0500 From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" Subject: Re: Joni at Club 47, Jan '68 There are two versions circulating, and the one that is not directly sourced from the "River Charles" boot is superior. Quoting Bob.Muller@Fluor.com: > if there was more than one recording made of her performance at Club > 47?> > > I don't know for sure, but I feel strongly that there was just this one. > It was broadcast on a college radio station there in Cambridge, MA and was > bootlegged as "By The Banks of the River Charles". As is often the case > with bootlegs, sometimes the songs are reconfigured and it gets bootlegged > as something else. > > Anyway, I'm glad you were able to snag and enjoy the recordings. > > Bob > > NP: Ani, "Evolve" 10.25.03 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, > business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you > are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, > dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken > in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:47:44 -0500 From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Quoting Jerry Notaro : >> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >> was never creepy. > > Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as pure > in tone and vibrato as a teen's. > > Jerry > I don't have this discussion sorted and can't read it all right now, but I must chime in to say that Ella Fitzgerald was one of my early musical loves. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a house that valued reading and music, and I spent countless hours listening to my Dad's records: Ella, Sinatra, many Broadway cast albums, etc. Since we had free reign in exploring the record collection, I aslo dicovered commercial folk and calypso (Harry Belafonte and Kingston Trio first--should I say faux and faux-calypso). I'm sure I discovered Joni from the get go because I became a folkie early. My grandmother saw a singer at some club in Colorado, and later bought one of her albums "Judy Collins #3," which she evenually gave to me. Interestingly enough I didn't discover Billie Holiday or Bessie Smith till later when I was in college when a number of Columbia reissues started surfacing. Thanks for listening to my inchoate ramblings. Back to work. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:51:40 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BSN change in style? I prefer her later recordings also. What she lost in tone she gained in phrasing and interpretation. I found that also to be true with Rosemary Clooney and still with Barbara Cook, soon to be 80. Jerry >>>> I prefer Billie! I think most people agree that when her voice > deteriorated > her art did not. But maybe that.s something I got off an > album cover. Maybe > some people can't listen to her later recordings > either? > BN > > > > For what's it's > worth, Joni has a great love for the later Billie recordings, and in one > interview even expressed a preference for them. I tend to agree with her, > although for me it might have more to do with the arrangements than her voice. > Michael Flaherty > _____________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. > Try the > Yahoo! Mail Beta. > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:58:05 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: BSN change in style? I was probably being too literal, then. I would never suspect from your writing that English is your second language. Take it as a compliment, Marion. I am a former English teacher and I think your English is superb. Especially superior to most native speakers. Jerry > I was put off because I felt misunderstood, not because of somebody having a > different point of view. Anyhow, my original response was in reply to those > who find Joni's voice has changed and who obviously prefer her younger > voice. Then the discussion suddenly turned to bodies, and ideal bodies at > that! All I was saying was that voices age together with the rest of bodies > and that I for one accept that fact of life. If somebody sounds much younger > than he or she is it feels weird to me. I wasn't referring to looks and > appearance but to a person's presence but maybe I can't express myself > properly, English not being my native language. > Peace! > Marion > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Marion Leffler" > To: > Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" ; > ; ; "Joni List" > ; "Laurent Olszer" ; > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: BSN change in style? > > >> And if I'm wrong why don't we instead listen to computercreated voices? >> They'd never change unless we wanted them to...And while we're at it, do >> we need human artists at all? >> Marion, a little put off but still smiling:) >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gerald A. Notaro" >> To: "Marion Leffler" >> Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" >> ; ; >> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" >> ; >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:29 PM >> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >> >> >>> What in heaven's name does listening to a voice have anything to do with >>> someone's body? >>> >>> Marion Leffler wrote: >>>> Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! >>>> It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a >>>> woman- >>>> or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest of >>>> their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! >>>> Marion >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jerry Notaro" >>>> To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" >>>> ; ; >>>> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" >>>> ; >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM >>>> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >>>>>> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >>>>>> was never creepy. >>>>> >>>>> Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was as >>>>> pure >>>>> in tone and vibrato as a teen's. >>>>> >>>>> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:25:44 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Joni's Starbucks Opus Collection CD I went to this site to look up the John Lennon Remember CD for y'all, and found the Joni one Cassy just mentioned. (Hi Cassysweet!) http://www.hearmusic.com/#PRODUCT124 Ah, I love this picture of Joni, don't you? And Graham's choice was BLUE! Racing away, Patti P. _________________________________________________________________ http://homepage.msn.com/zune?icid=hmetagline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:38:54 +0100 From: "Marion Leffler" Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Thank you, Jerry, for your kind words! Sometimes it is hard for me to find the right expression in English though when what I want to say has to be right to the point. I'm grateful if you all bear with me on those occasions.:-) From Sweden where a snowstorm is roaring outside my window (yes, really!), Marion - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "Marion Leffler" Cc: "Joni List" Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:58 PM Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >I was probably being too literal, then. I would never suspect from your > writing that English is your second language. Take it as a compliment, > Marion. I am a former English teacher and I think your English is superb. > Especially superior to most native speakers. > > Jerry > > >> I was put off because I felt misunderstood, not because of somebody >> having a >> different point of view. Anyhow, my original response was in reply to >> those >> who find Joni's voice has changed and who obviously prefer her younger >> voice. Then the discussion suddenly turned to bodies, and ideal bodies at >> that! All I was saying was that voices age together with the rest of >> bodies >> and that I for one accept that fact of life. If somebody sounds much >> younger >> than he or she is it feels weird to me. I wasn't referring to looks and >> appearance but to a person's presence but maybe I can't express myself >> properly, English not being my native language. >> Peace! >> Marion >> --- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marion Leffler" >> To: >> Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" >> ; >> ; ; "Joni List" >> ; "Laurent Olszer" ; >> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >> >> >>> And if I'm wrong why don't we instead listen to computercreated voices? >>> They'd never change unless we wanted them to...And while we're at it, do >>> we need human artists at all? >>> Marion, a little put off but still smiling:) >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gerald A. Notaro" >>> To: "Marion Leffler" >>> Cc: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Smurf" >>> ; ; >>> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent Olszer" >>> ; >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >>> >>> >>>> What in heaven's name does listening to a voice have anything to do >>>> with >>>> someone's body? >>>> >>>> Marion Leffler wrote: >>>>> Which is why I never feel comfortable listening to her! >>>>> It makes me feel creepy - something doesn't feel right to me when a >>>>> woman- >>>>> or a man for that matter - has a voice that doesn't go with the rest >>>>> of >>>>> their body, it doesn't ring "true". I am happy Joni's voice changed! >>>>> Marion >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jerry Notaro" >>>>> To: "Smurf" ; "Marion Leffler" >>>>> ; ; >>>>> ; "Joni List" ; "Laurent >>>>> Olszer" >>>>> ; >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:41 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: BSN change in style? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Not necessarily. I think Ella Fizgerald's voice >>>>>>> sounded quite young throughout her long life, and it >>>>>>> was never creepy. >>>>>> >>>>>> Absolutely agree with you Bob. Ella's voice right up to the end was >>>>>> as >>>>>> pure >>>>>> in tone and vibrato as a teen's. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:31:00 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: BSN change in style?] I'm not sure where you got that information, Bruce - I've never seen anything anywhere relative to that. They did a pre-release for Valentine's Day 2000 of the "Candy/Hat Box" edition (exploiting those of us who were willing to fork out the outrageous price for the "deluxe" features). The normal release including standard jewel case was already set at that point. They knew better than to offer both at the same time. There was no "immediate" sell out of the Hat Box edition, far from it. Matter of fact, retailers are STILL trying to dump them (you can buy one today on Amazon for under $12). Many of the discs were damaged in shipment since they were not secured properly and Reprise had to set up special procedures to replace the broken ones. The whole thing was a fiasco...and that's not even getting into how dull the actual music on the disc is. Bob NP: The Beatles, "Yer Blues" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:35:39 +0000 From: missblux@googlemail.com Subject: : BSN change in style So well said Bruce. In spite of all the expert opinions who don't agree I think this album is going to become more loved over time. Maybe she was thinking this when she recorded: "...now old friends are acting strange, they shake their heads and they tell me that I've changed. Well something's lost and something's gained in living every day...." If you should ever consider uploading your re-enhanced version, do let us know...! Best Bene Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:21:47 -0700 From: "L. Bruce Vaughn" Subject: [Fwd: Re: BSN change in style?] - - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: BSN change in style? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 06:14:34 -0700 From: L. Bruce Vaughn To: Azeem Ali Khan References: <225627.88114.qm@web37509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6f550b70702210124s10abc804j768a241ec5e0fe7@mail.gmail.com> BSN is an odd duck, not only for Joni recording songs she didn't write but the timing of it so closely following the overall blistering she got from the critics for TTT. Joni's voice through aged and cigarette burned is exactly, I believe, as she intended it to be. It depends on which version of BSN you have. As I understand it, the jewel case edition was never intended to be released until the original limited edition "candy box" set (released 6 weeks before the jewel case edition) sold out almost immediately. It was only after the quick sell out and mass demand of the special edition that the jewel case edition was released in late March of 2000. If you are lucky enough to have nailed one of the candy box first editions you'll get likenesses (full image) of Joni's paintings. The front and back cover art on the jewel case were clipped, especially the back image of Joni sitting in a bar smoking but what is clipped out is Joni's cigarette smoke wafting up around a "No Smoking" sign. I always saw that as an intentional "f..k you" retort to the critics who blasted her for being "negative" or "couldn't write anymore" on TTT. The album was never mastered to it's fullest sound capabilities, even the DVD-A version of the album is flat. I have a spectrally re-enhanced version of the album that I did for myself (I won't call it remastering as I do not have master tapes) but once you punch up the sonics and adjust some frequencies, you really understand what a piece of brilliant satire the whole album is. If she had been able to sing these with the more soprano'ish voice of her earlier years, she'd have been laughed off the face of the earth. Her vocals are just perfect as they are and fit the mood of the album, so are the arrangements. This is not an album you can listen to in passing before it hits you, you need to get your headphones, put the disc in, turn out the lights and let it play so no one but Joni is in your world... It will win you over. Bruce in AZ... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2007 #57 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)