From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #308 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, October 29 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 308 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave [Benedicte Nielsen ] Joni currency ["Patti Parlette" ] RE: SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave ["Azeem" ] Joni and God ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Marcie [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Joni and God [J Kendel Johnson ] The Great Sweet Divide (Totally Joni Now) [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and God ["ron" ] The LOL Joni Songs [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and God ["Sherelle Smith" ] Joni art in L.A. and "currency" [] Re: Is Joni REALLY doing a new album??? [Chris Marshall ] Joni and God ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 Oct 2006 12:57:22 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:36:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Marcie A couple of years ago i had a conversation with a friend, a lovely girl, a very bright girl, and she was about to get married then and the topic of betrayal came up, and so naturally we were talking about cheating husbands, cheating wives, you know, and then she suddenly said something like "well there's the worst kind of betrayal - and that is when your partner dies". I'll never forget that. Nuri - ------------------- When my father died I received a letter of condolency from someone who said his own father died when he was quite young. I was quite startled with what he said: It is terrible, because who can you trust, then? I think little children feel like that when their parents die, but one of my fathers close friends sent a letter in which he said, among other things, that to be honest, he sometimes got really pissed off with him for leaving him like that (he died of natural causes). I don't think I've lost trust in people from seeing relatives die. But in a strange way it has made me make up my mind more quickly about what people I can be bothered with and what people I can't be bothered with. A bit weird to sign up to a mailing list full of strangers then...?? - ---- About Marcie: now that we are discussing Nick Cave as well: does anyone know what that song "Black Hair" is about? A black-haired girl who left him? Or is he flirting with death? It ends with: Today she took a train to the West ... that's the Marice-relevance. I don't know that song (Feelings), but man I'm not sure I'm in the mood for listening, it's the saddest ever autumn here! Beneluxurously ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 12:46:06 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Joni currency Ah, Joni love sucked me back this way, to my blue-screened computer. "Some Millers" wrote: Don't forget the mother lode of currency referred to in DED's "Tax Free". "Multiple hundreds of thousands of..." Tax free "Hundreds and millions of dollars" Tax free "A hundred billion dollars!" DING DING DING DING DING! (in a bell jar) (no tongue in the bell) Ladies (of the Canyon) and (sixteen) Gentlemen! We have a winner! Congratulations, Some Miller! For love, or MONEY, Patti P. "Another Mother (lode) for Peace" _________________________________________________________________ Use your PC to make calls at very low rates https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:18:29 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: SJC, but very little: Marcie / Cave << now that we are discussing Nick Cave as well: does anyone know what that song "Black Hair" is about? A black-haired girl who left him? Or is he flirting with death? >> Although it's usually perilous to ascribe particular inspirations to particular songs, it's probably safe to state that Black Hair was written about Polly Harvey (ie PJ Harvey), with whom Nick Cave had a relationship some time in the 90s. West Country Girl, from the same album, is very likely also about her. Azeem in London NP: Gemma Hayes - Let A Good Thing Go - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 27/10/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:32:04 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Joni and God "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was going with the title as well as the actual song. Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 11:47:40 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Marcie Mack the knife wrote: >So abysmal et tragic the tune. Hiya Mackie, The words that stick with me throughout this song are: "Dust her tables with his shirt," "Down along the Hudson River," and "went west again." Marcie is always getting on with things like the river continuing to flow, despite him. She realizes his worthlessness as she uses his shirt to dust her table... it is just a rag now to her. She goes to where she's gone before in the process of getting over loss, west. I see focal direction in the song rather than being lost in an abyss. The missing that comes with a loss after getting over the denial that somebody isn't coming back and that the relationship isn't going to work out is a human thing, and the strong, like Marcie, work through it and live on. This song is a beautiful presentation of that process. I love the beauty of the open ending of going "west" because it leaves us to our own "west" rather than providing a limited solution toward overcoming loss. This song is a very colorful presentation of the survival / healing process in my opinion. There are many more "happy" colors than "sad" colors in the song: red, green, yellow cab, and the colors that go with flowers, the sky, peaches, summer, and the brightest of course... the west. I don't think this guy is "the one" as you suggest but rather one of maybe many whom she had hoped was "the one;" she's gone west before. He seems to me like he's just another shipyard in the cold she gets past. She ends up going west, as to California where the sun shines much more than in the cold northeast. Anger is a great motivator, and it moves her to go west "again," in freedom with new dreams as she takes care of herself as nobody else can. Just like Joni actually did, does, is. Yes, it is definitely one of Joni's finest songs in my mind. I love it, love to play it and sing it, meditate on it. When I do, I find an underlying focus beyond tragedy being the strength of Marcie to get on with things despite how this guy was a jerk and abandoned her. I'm inspired to play and sing it more than once when I do. Sometimes I've found an hour has passed, and I'm still singing and playing it over and over again. If it was simply a presentation of abyss and tragedy, I wouldn't be this inspired by it. I see it as giving the listeners hope for dealing with loss that comes for whatever reason. That's what it does for me. Joni had lots of losses and has always come through to smile again with the brilliant California sunshine smile she still has. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 09:01:36 -0700 (PDT) From: J Kendel Johnson Subject: Re: Joni and God From http://www.jonimitchell.com/glossary/entry.cfm?id=57: The following was submitted by Richard Flynn From the first chapter of Mingus's autobiography Beneath the Underdog (1971), a dialogue between Mingus and his psychiatrist: "Why don't you ever let me lie on the couch, doctor?" "You always choose the chair." "I feel you don't want me on the couch 'cause I'm colored and your white patients might be bugged." "Oh, Charles Mingus! You can lie on it, kick it, jump on it, get on it, get under it, turn it over, break it - and pay for it."' "Man, you're crazy! I'm gonna save you." "You're not trained to save. I am." "I can save you. Do you believe in God?" "Yes." "As a boogie man?" Sherelle Smith wrote: "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was going with the title as well as the actual song. Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free trip! http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 11:10:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: The Great Sweet Divide (Totally Joni Now) Benedicte wrote: "Hum... Nuri says his (Bene was talking about Nick Cave's - not mine, hehe) fans are divided. As I said in a previous mail I am thinking of seeing him in Bonn with a friend. I think he and I belong to different sides of the divide". That applies to Joni's fans as well. Diehard fans like us, that is. Everyone knows that. The list's history is filled with our Joni divide tales. And i'm not talking about which Joni voice we like the most since her voice changed or the mood she was in back in 1957 compared to our 1957 mood, i'm talking about her artistic choices and the way we reacted towards them. I'm talking purely about the music, not even about her lyrics. There are those who don't like her 80's style one bit and those who think it's brilliant. There are those who didn't like her going jazzy and those who liked her the most during that era. There are those who'd go nuts if they heard a Joni orchestra again and those who wish there were more BSNs and Travelogues. And it all comes from us loving her, you know, we are love critics, no matter which "side" we choose. I can't even count the times and interviews where Joni herself spoke about everyone's reaction to every new style she surprised us with, she spoke about that a lot, sometimes sounding a bit upset and surprised herself and sometimes laughing it all away. And she often had a commercial price to pay for the changes in terms of album sales. And the image price as well as people could no longer figure out what her style is so we got the Joni style which says both everything as well as nothing at all if you ask me. Why do 99.9% of us are united with Hejira and undivided with Court and Spark but when it comes to other styles in other albums we often disagree? The thing is that only great artists, in every form of art, dared to surprise everyone, including themselves, and were always looking for a new border to cross. As for me, as well as for many other folks here, as time went by we gave up on this classic divide issue and so now we can listen to and enjoy everything in Joni's catalogue, including albums we didn't like much for many years. It's a sweet surrender thing. Nuri Something about being on a mailing list like this one made me think of "the kindness of strangers". Its a funny coincidence Ron that you send me a link to a song called "stranger than kindness". Bene (I'm usually not big on literary references but this one is from A Streetcar named Desire by Tennessee Williams "I've always relied on the kindness of strangers") Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:42:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Marcie Catherine wrote: "If you look at "I had a king" and then "Marcie", it could be the same woman - once telling the story in the first-person and then as a neutral third-party. For that matter, i think that Nathan LaFraneer drove her to the airport and that they may have driven past the shipyards in the rain on the way there, past the Dawntreader in her berth. And on it goes, with gangs and girly shows." There was this educational game we played in school here when i was a kid, in our writing lessons, and we (the non-football kids like me) often played it outside the classroom as well because it was fun, an exercise, where the teacher, and i had a lovely old Lady, a death-camp survivor named Sima as a teacher, would ask you to think of the first word (which was sort of "the problem") and the last word ("the solution") and then you had to fill the space in between the first and last word with a story where you had to put in words the process of how the problem got solved. So you had like "I lost my cat" at the beginning and "Found Gizmo!" in the end or "That new girl hates me" at the beginning and "My new best friend Rachel" in the end and so on, and the stories in between describing what happened. It wasn't just about the start/finish words, it was more about the start/finish state of mind, and Sima always treated us kids as little people. One of the things you learn when you're given such an etude is that you may not control the beginning but the end is very much up to you, as if you're the prophet of your own tale. For many years, whenever i was listening to STAS, this childhood game was somewhere at the back of my head. "I Had A King" always sounded to me like the problem, the source of pain, and "Cactus Tree" - the solution and release. It's like a lifetime plan of some kind, like a promise to yourself - This is the sad place where i started and this is how I, and not fate or God or men or anyone else but me, have decided that it would end. Nuri - --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited Try it today. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:53:25 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Joni and God hi >>>sherelle wrote >>>> "God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head >>>> a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering >>>> what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was >>>> going with the title as well as the actual song. i think the key to the song is " Which would it be Mingus one or two or three Which one do you think he'd want the world to see Well world opinion's not a lot of help When a man's only trying to find out How to feel about himself" its about a person who is unsure in himself as to who he really, & who he thinks the world would want to see. does he show the middle character - strong, (perhaps), unemotional, rational - waiting to provide the guidance to the two other personas - the one who is so scared that he lashes out & attacks before they get too close, and another who is vulnerable, sweet & gentle - who lets people in too close. in this state of confusion, he is looking outside of himself for guidance. he already knows that world opinions no help - too confusing, (who is going to give that kind of guidance with enough insight or authority?) so, he turns to god, but, i think perhaps, in an unhealthy way. god must have a plan, god must have an answer. but god doesnt work that way - god is really all about individuality and freedom of choice, (i know that many people will disagree, or perhaps never have experienced that viewpoint). so in his disillusionment & disappointmnet the "plan" goes from divine, to insulting, to cock eyed ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 14:10:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: The LOL Joni Songs Now let's see if you guys can name all the songs where you can hear Joni laughing out loud as part of the recording itself. I'm warning you - there are more Joni laughter songs than you may think:) Nuri - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1"/min. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 21:25:42 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: Joni and God Actually Ron, that makes perfect sense to me!! Thank you! I've never been able to understand the song as Joni meant it but reading your words, It really feels like this is what she meant the song to say. Sherelle Ron wrote: > >hi > > > >>>sherelle wrote >>>>>"God Must Be A Boogie Man" was a melody that started playing in my head >>>>>a minute ago and since we have a thread on the subject, I was wondering >>>>>what your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where Joni was >>>>>going with the title as well as the actual song. > > >i think the key to the song is > >" Which would it be >Mingus one or two or three >Which one do you think he'd want the world to see >Well world opinion's not a lot of help >When a man's only trying to find out >How to feel about himself" > > >its about a person who is unsure in himself as to who he really, & who he >thinks the world would want to see. does he show the middle character - >strong, (perhaps), unemotional, rational - waiting to provide the guidance >to the two other personas - the one who is so scared that he lashes out & >attacks before they get too close, and another who is vulnerable, sweet & >gentle - who lets people in too close. > >in this state of confusion, he is looking outside of himself for guidance. >he already knows that world opinions no help - too confusing, (who is going >to give that kind of guidance with enough insight or authority?) so, he >turns to god, but, i think perhaps, in an unhealthy way. god must have a >plan, god must have an answer. but god doesnt work that way - god is really >all about individuality and freedom of choice, (i know that many people >will disagree, or perhaps never have experienced that viewpoint). so in his >disillusionment & disappointmnet the "plan" goes from divine, to insulting, >to cock eyed > > >ron > > > _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:36:13 -0700 From: Subject: Joni art in L.A. and "currency" Check it out. Nov. 9th. Currency is $125 a head ;-) http://www.losangelesballet.org/html/events.htm Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 00:36:29 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Is Joni REALLY doing a new album??? On 25 Oct 2006, at 21:31, Michael Flaherty wrote: > Btw, I noticed no one is on bass. I've got about a months worth of holiday coming up... I could probably fit something into my schedule. [Well, it's nice to dream, isn't it?] But by god, that's something I'd **love** to do. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 22:09:55 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: If Joni were a baseball fan... If Joni were a baseball fan, she would be celebrating the Cardinals as the new World Series Champions... because they were certainly, "taming the Tigers" this past week. Victor NP: Beck - The Information ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 23:59:32 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Joni and God Sherelle Smith >"God Must Be A Boogie Man" I was wondering what >your thoughts are on the lyrics to this song and where >Joni was going with the title as well as the actual song. Hi Sherelle, Until the search feature is working, start with this: http://www.jonimitchell.com/glossary/entry.cfm?id=57 Jim L. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #308 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)