From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #276 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, September 27 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 276 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- re: Cherokee Lousy? ["c Karma" ] re: Cherokee Lousy? [Michael Flaherty ] re: Cherokee Lousy? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] re: Cherokee Lousy? [Michael Flaherty ] re:Cherokee Lousy? ["c Karma" ] the best version of woodstock [Joseph Palis ] re: Cherokee Lousy? [Bob Muller ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:17:50 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Cherokee Lousy? Bob wrote: ...and probably the worst selection to put on Tlog...ah yes, a lovely orchestrated song about teenage rape, betrayal and lost childhood." Louise is a survivor. Don't forget, we find her a few years later wearing a push-up bra. (Rolling, rolling, rock 'n rolling.) I couldn't disagree more about its (Cherokee Louise') presence on T'log. I think it's probably the second best arrangement on the record (after "Woodstock") and probably one of the few where the orchestra and Brian Blade create real synergy. The somber intro alone is worth the price of my disc. Sometimes I hear a clock ticking, sometimes it's the constant drip of rainwater in a lonely hole under the bridge. It's one of several music cues from T'log I could see stolen into any number of films with truly serious and humane content. Other wonderful examples are the opening of "Love", the harp lifting us above the clouds as "Refuge of the Roads" starts, or the distant train whistles and banshee cry that close "For The Roses." Why after all this time do I still feel that many JMDListers still don't get Travelogue? I don't mean to single Bob's comment out to get to this point, but I do wonder. CC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:16:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: re: Cherokee Lousy? c Karma wrote: >The somber intro alone is worth the price of my disc. Sometimes I hear a clock ticking, sometimes it's the constant drip of rainwater in a lonely hole under the bridge. It's one of several music cues from T'log I could see stolen into any number of films with truly serious and humane content. Other wonderful examples are the opening of "Love", the harp lifting us above the clouds as "Refuge of the Roads" starts, or the distant train whistles and banshee cry that close "For The Roses." That is a beautiful description. It almost makes me want to listen to Tlog again .... almost. ;) I think I prefer your words to the music. >Why after all this time do I still feel that many JMDListers still don't get Travelogue? I don't mean to single Bob's comment out to get to this point, but I do wonder. Just because some of us don't like something doesn't mean we don't "get" it. Simply put, sweet strings don't appeal to me. More importantly, as I've pointed out recently, I think that these versions suffer by comparison to the originals. Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:43:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: re: Cherokee Lousy? Or as I sometimes like to say..."I get it, I just don't want it." Like Michael, the 101 Strings treatment on most of this album (although much more enjoyable than BSN) doesn't work for me. It's tedious and tired. And on a song like Cherokee Louise, the interpretation is especially inappropriate. It's a very intimate and quiet song, this full orchestra backing makes about as much sense as putting a heavy metal spin on it. Joni's original vision for the song was exactly spot on. The same for "Sex Kills", except in this case it doesn't need the sugary orchestra, it NEEDS the metallic treatment - and it gets it, courtesy of Roine Stolt, coming up on Joni Covers Volume 81 October 1. Let's take a look at Woodstock...she's released it in a variety of styles: LOTC version MOA version S&L version Tlog version And there are striking differences in all of them - question to the list at large...which one works best for you & why? Bob NP: Billie Holiday, "Until The Real Thing Comes Along" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 13:49:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: re: Cherokee Lousy? Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: Subject: re:Cherokee Lousy? Bob wrote, after Michael and me: "It's a very intimate and quiet song, this full orchestra backing makes about as much sense as putting a heavy metal spin on it. Joni's original vision for the song was exactly spot on." Again, I'd have to respectfully disagree that the T'log version seems quieter and more introspective to me. I thought the original version was just fine until compared, then the skipping tempo seemed ironically detached and not grave enough to support the subject. Now as regards the four variations on "Woodstock." That's an interesting challenge as all are VERY different. I think I have to disregard the MOA version as too pop. The S&L version is so reverent it's almost homage. That leaves the original LOTC and T'log. The original recalls the experience so vividly it's damn near impossible to supplant. The orchestral version is documentary. I've said this before, it's arrangement channels Lyndon Johnson and Chief Seattle in a way no other piece of music has. LOTC hits the nail on the head. T'log's throws a wider net. Is it too wide? That depends on whether you think too many lessons have been forgotten or too much potential squandered in the years between the two. There are now two generations who did not have the present context within which to discover the LOTC version. T'log's version attempts to make up for some of that. CC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:09:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: the best version of woodstock I would have to say that I love the MOA version of "Woodstock". Partly because I like the cohesiveness of sound in the whole MOA album and by around this time, Joni has sung this song quite a number of times and have explored the musical nunaces this ong can provide. Having said that, the LOTC version of "Woodstock" is hard to equal since a lot of memories are associuated with its first listen. Despite the fact that I am one of those people who only discovered Joni in 1990, I listened and purchased her albums chronologically. For some reason, the "Woodstock" version in S&L did not really do it for me. The album is great and channels the live feel of the performance on the album and its cinematic ramifications. For some reason, I thought Joni was going through the motions with some of the songs in this live album. I like it when the song is given a different treatment and conveys the sense of wonderment of the original but in a slightly modified musical palette. As for "Woodstock" in T'log, I like the orchestral scope of the score that made the song more expansive and open to musical accoutrements. But then this can also be seen as overblown when a sparer version could have conveyed more in less musical extravaganza. Someone said that T'log's versions of earlier Joni songs can be likened to a documentary and I agree though I am not sure if we are thinking in the same lines. I think that the orchestral version sort of placed the song in an almost classical context to bring out the timelessness of Joni's songcraft/song wizardry. Some songs lend themselves well to this musical setting ("You Dream Flat Tires") while others don't ("The Last Time I saw Richard"). But that's just me and it is obvious that all our subjective tastes have as much to do as to why we prefer this song from this, this musical setting from this, this arrangement from this, etc. As for the best version of "Woodstock" among other artists, I like Tuck & Patti's version of it. But you know what, "Woodstock" is not even among my favorite Joni songs. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Etta Baker "Marching Jaybird" c Karma a icrit : Bob wrote, after Michael and me: "It's a very intimate and quiet song, this full orchestra backing makes about as much sense as putting a heavy metal spin on it. Joni's original vision for the song was exactly spot on." Again, I'd have to respectfully disagree that the T'log version seems quieter and more introspective to me. I thought the original version was just fine until compared, then the skipping tempo seemed ironically detached and not grave enough to support the subject. Now as regards the four variations on "Woodstock." That's an interesting challenge as all are VERY different. I think I have to disregard the MOA version as too pop. The S&L version is so reverent it's almost homage. That leaves the original LOTC and T'log. The original recalls the experience so vividly it's damn near impossible to supplant. The orchestral version is documentary. I've said this before, it's arrangement channels Lyndon Johnson and Chief Seattle in a way no other piece of music has. LOTC hits the nail on the head. T'log's throws a wider net. Is it too wide? That depends on whether you think too many lessons have been forgotten or too much potential squandered in the years between the two. There are now two generations who did not have the present context within which to discover the LOTC version. T'log's version attempts to make up for some of that. CC - --------------------------------- Dicouvrez un nouveau moyen de poser toutes vos questions quelque soit le sujet ! Yahoo! Questions/Riponses pour partager vos connaissances, vos opinions et vos expiriences. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:28:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: re: Cherokee Lousy? OK, *just for you* I just played the track with an open mind, and I do have to say that you're right about that beginning. It is superb and really sets the scene properly, the accents are on the woodwinds and it works very well until around the 4-minute mark when the strings get way too heavy and suffer from the "More is more" approach that plagues so many, if not all of these tracks. Maybe a quartet or even a lone cello would have served the song better. Thanks for motivating me to give it a closer listen, and I'm glad that you get so much enjoyment from Tlog. Bob NP: Bryan Thomas, "Harder" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #276 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)