From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #251 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, September 3 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 251 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- river ["Kate Bennett" ] river ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's Albums - Concept Albums? [Nuriel Tobias ] re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces [Nuriel Tobias ] Female Bob Dylan [Benedicte Nielsen ] Joni Mitchell, Susan Cowsill, and Michael Paz [Michael Paz ] Sarah's version of "River" [Andeemac2006 ] re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces [Michael Flaherty ] Re: Sarah McLachlan's "River" [Mark-Leon Thorne ] re: Joni's albums-concept albums? ["c Karma" ] * Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 61-70 of JM Covers ["Music Is Spec] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:15:20 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: river Oh, I got chills, this is sooooo beautiful, thank you bob! Thank you sarah! >It comes out October 17 - but you can hear it right now (and it IS very lovely): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulr7MPyhPaY Bob NP: Sarah, "River" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:15:20 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: river Oh, I got chills, this is sooooo beautiful, thank you bob! Thank you sarah! >It comes out October 17 - but you can hear it right now (and it IS very lovely): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulr7MPyhPaY Bob NP: Sarah, "River" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:25:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni's Albums - Concept Albums? I agree with you, Bob. Very interesting, i must say. And Em's post about concept in art (painting, but not only) is a treat - food for thought. Here's what i think. Apart from the albums you mentioned, and maybe my own point of view on 1 or 2 you already did - I agree with everything you said about Travelogue, BSN and Mingus. Good points, Bob. Hejira - I think it's a concept album. It's a story of a journey (like in a road-trip movie), and i know most of us, if not all of us, have experienced that journey-feeling when listening to it as if we're driving with Joni. The Hejira journey is the theme and concept and every song is a station in the road-trip. We "hit the road" when it begins, and we come to a "full stop" when it ends. Every song tells it's own story - but together, as chapters in a book or scenes in a movie of a play, they tell one story. The songs are "chained" to eachother like pins on a map - the Hejira map. That reason alone makes it definitely a concept album. HOSL - Once again, i agree with you, Bob. It's hard to agree, i guess, because how can anyone say it's not a concept album when Joni herself says it's a concept album, but i agree with you. Like you said, the songs are related, but they don't fit together. I can't put my fingure on an overall theme - instrumental, lyrical, narrative and so on - that unifies all of them into a story. Maybe it's a concept album in an abstract way. Trying to find the concept in it leads me to more questiones than answers. It's very confusing, that's all i can say. STAS - I'm not saying it's a concept album. But even if there were no "city" and "seaside" segments, i could easily "read" the story it tells with each song being a chapter or a scene. It's a rare situation where a songwriter managed to combine "random" songs in a way that does that trick. However - reading lots and lots of reviews this last hour, i can tell you that critics claim that Blue, FTR, CAS, DED and TTT are concept albums. You'd be surprised to see what happens when you write "Joni Mitchell Concept Album" in Google search, and if you type "Concept Album" (in general) you may learn a lot ,but beware my friends! - Because once an album is considered a concept album - it, somehow, gets more respect and attention to a degree that it's "automaticaly" treated as a masretpiece, so both critics and fans are debating their souls out in order to prove that an album is a concept album or not. The more i'm learning about it, the more i see it's a war zone. War zones is something i've decided to leave behind. Nuri Bob Muller wrote: > What is a concept album? Do you think that > Joni's albums are concept albums? **In popular music, a concept album is an album which is "unified by a theme, which can be instrumental, compositional, narrative, or lyrical" They are most often pre-planned (conceived) and with all songs contributing to a single overall theme or unified story, this plan or story being the concept.** Now, the bigger question...are any of Joni's albums concept albums? Travelogue would be, the "concept" being Joni's revisiting her catalogue and re-arranging selections for orchestra. Both Sides Now is her performing a cycle of love/torch songs that tells a story - definitely a concept album. Mingus is a concept album, with the exception of "Lindsey" which doesn't really fit the Mitchell-Mingus theme. Hissing of Summer Lawns could be debated as a concept album, given what she wrote about it being 'conceived as a whole' and all that, but I don't think the songs fit together that way, though many are certainly related to one another. Same goes for STAS, even with its "City" and "Seaside" segments. Bob NP: Plastik, "A Case Of You" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:47:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces Michael F. claims it's the change given by the vending machine in dimes so there are more coins coming out than inserted. It makes sense - but isn't the song about a machine that is empty and "tells" you that you should try another? Surely you don't get change for something you can't buy. Michael, my dear - you are risking my sanity:) Mia claims it's a machine that has no sense like the one in her work - Thanks a lot, girl - now my sanity is lost for good!:) I've decided to tell the kid that it's a crazy machine that gives you more money than you insert into it and that if he wants to get rich he should start smoking! The smoking thing is no problem because both his parents are smokers. The problem is that i know he's going to spend the rest of his life looking for that machine! Nuri mia _ wrote: << The kid said it didn't make sense because the number of coins insereted into it when the song begins is SMALLER than the number of coins coming out of it by the end of the song. And the kid was right! All you need to do is listen to the sound of coins in the begining and in the end to know that the damn kid was right! Now you tell me - if the machine claims that it's empty (try another) - then how come it gives back MORE coins than insterted? What the hell is going on there?>> LOL, Nuri! It may be that Joni is using the same type of vending machine that we have at my work. Sometimes when I put my .75 cents in, I'll get two bags of Famous Amos Chocolate Chip Cookies instead of one. At other times, I'll get none. Anyway, your neighbor sounds like a really smart kid! Mia - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2"/min or less. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:39:16 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces hi >>>nuri wrote >>>>>the end of the song. And the kid was right! All you need to do is listen to the sound of coins in the begining and in the end to know that the damn kid was right! Now you tell me - if the machine claims that it's empty (try another) - then how come it gives back MORE coins than insterted? What the hell is going on there? joni was confused & it was actually a slot machine. years later, she realised her mistake & wrote a song about it. only she was embarassed, & instead of just saying that it happened to a friend (she had her reputation as a creative writer to protect) she claimed that it happed to a dry cleaner from des moines. ron (who actually hears 3 coins going in & only two coming out) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 09:07:05 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Sarah McLachlan's "River" Bob wrote: It comes out October 17 - but you can hear it right now (and it IS very lovely): _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulr7MPyhPaY_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulr7MPyhPaY) Hi Bob, Something about those Canadians!!! Thanks for this. Nice to wake up and hear something so beautiful! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 06:04:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Joni's Albums - Concept Albums? I entertained the same thoughts about Hejira, Nuri - either thematically (road tripping) or sonically (the sameness of the Joni-Jaco interplay in so many of the tracks). One could also argue the 'concept' of C&S (the thin line between love and insanity) or DJRD (Duality & Dreams), or the autobiographical nature of FTR. Then again, you could probably debate your way through arguing the concept of every project she's done. Like Em said, every project represents a period and is unlike the records that preceded & followed it. Bob NP: Van Morrison Cover Story on Coverville.com Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 06:40:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces ron wrote: "ron (who actually hears 3 coins going in & only two coming out)" Thank you for joining the Smokin', Try Another Madness Club, ron. Before you can participate in our activities, we must let you know that WE hear 3 coins going in and at least 5 coming out and if you wait a sec after the machine is closed you can even hear some more. OUR experts have examined it for years and WE are 100% sure that they're right. However, the fact that the machine managed to fool you too makes you worthy of our club and you are now an official member. To start your membership please insert 3 coins and wait for further instructions. Nuri - --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 06:58:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Sarah McLachlan's "River" And BIG thanks to whoever put it up on youtube. It may not be there for long. And also coming up soon is Canadian kd lang and Madeleine Peyroux's duet of "River" - should also be killer. Bob NP: My Brightest Diamond, "Gone Away" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: 02 Sep 2006 16:08:26 +0100 From: Benedicte Nielsen Subject: Female Bob Dylan Hi, I am new to this list, perhaps this is an old topic that has already been banned for further discussion... I read that Joni M protested to being called the female Bob Dylan, because noone would ever call Dylan the male Joni Mitchell - implying that women will always be considered to as secondary. Joni Mitchell is unique and I can see why the remark must have been annoying. I get the point though. I was born in 1965, too late to be part of the Dylan era. I know some of his music, but I cannot really relate to what some people say about him: that although at the time they didn't understand his lyrics, the totally knew what he was on about. That is how I feel about Joni Mitchell though; and I think that what makes the difference is the way she sings from a woman's perspective, that is what makes her songs immediately relevant to me, as opposed to Dylan's. Recently I got quite infatuated by a couple of male singers, but thought that as long as there is Joni, they could never make it to be my number 1's! The best they could ever make was probably "best male" or rather "male Joni M"... This is not an estimation of quality, just of how I relate to them personally; and I guess people relate to music in different ways. Any thoughts? Benie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 10:48:57 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Joni Mitchell, Susan Cowsill, and Michael Paz I am just beside myself with excitement. A dream come true for your old pal Paz. The beautiful and talented Ms. Susan Cowsill does a series once a month called Under The Covers at Carrolton Station. She has done many of them so far where she covers an entire album top to bottom. In the past she has done Fleetwood Mac Rumours, Winigs-Band On The Run, The Kinks, and many more. Tonight she is performing Court and Spark with her band and she has asked me to play with them. I will be playing piano on Court and Spark, Down To You, and Same Situation and guitar on Peoples Parties and Just Like This Train ad well as background vox on Car on a Hill, Raised on Robbery, and Twisted. We had a great rehearsal yesterday afternoon and had a lot of laughs. I can't wait!!! I wish you call could be here. Showtime is at 10:30pm so if you hop in your private jets right now you will have time for a nice dinner before the show. It has been a really incredible week working with Stevie Wonder, Wynton Marsalis, Kim Burrell (who I LOVE), Kirk Franklin, Ray Chew and his band, Yolanda Adams, Mary Mary, Dr. John, and New Orleans Social Club (featuring my friends Henry Butler, Leo Nocentelli and George Porter, Jr. of the Original Meters, Ivan Neville, Cyril Neville, and John Boutte. It was a 2 1/2 hour show that started out to be a 48 input show that grew to 86 inputs after rehearsals. Thank heaven for digital consoles with instant recall. The show was called Rebuilding the Soul of America...One Year Later. I am dreadfully behind on the list, but I hope all are well and happy. Love to you all. Paz NP-I Know This Bar-Ani DiFranco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:23:23 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell, Susan Cowsill, and Michael Paz Lucky you and lucky audience, Michael. Susan was a highlight for me at Pazfest and I'm sure it will be great! Jerry > I am just beside myself with excitement. A dream come true for your old > pal > Paz. The beautiful and talented Ms. Susan Cowsill does a series once a > month > called Under The Covers at Carrolton Station. She has done many of them so > far where she covers an entire album top to bottom. In the past she has > done > Fleetwood Mac Rumours, Winigs-Band On The Run, The Kinks, and many more. > Tonight she is performing Court and Spark with her band and she has asked > me > to play with them. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 11:49:26 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Re: Maddona is and Artist!!! At his worst... Mathews is a extraordinaire guitarrist. Btw, what do Madonna, Beyonci and Brandy play... Chess? Ding-a-lings? War? Is Matthews a extraordiaire gutiarist by being able to Strum???????? I havnt heard him do any electric Lead guitarist solos, or finger pick his acoustic guitar like Paul Simon used to be able to, and I have not read any Guitarist magazing extolling the virtues of him being one of the top 10 guitarists in the world sorry your wrong. Joni Mitchell is a far superior guitarist than he ever will be and she created her own style And Maddona is a good Keyboard player and Writes all her own songs, which most are very good. This all came from me wanting more original Melodys from artists today, not drone. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 12:00:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Andeemac2006 Subject: Sarah's version of "River" What a great singer she is, a true gem of a talent in todays hum drum Thanks Bob Muller for that link it brightend my day ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 14:04:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces Nuriel Tobias wrote: >Michael F. claims it's the change given by the vending machine in dimes so >there are more coins coming out than inserted. It makes sense - but isn't >the song about a machine that is empty and "tells" you that you should >try ?another? Surely you don't get change for something you can't buy. >Michael, my dear - you are risking my sanity:) Obviously, the machine is completely out of order. Lol! We have a machine at work that sometimes gives back different coins than you put in if the drink you want is out, so that's where I came up with my "solution", but it doesn't tell you to do anything. I think it's pretty impressive that this boy noticed all of this--I certainly never did. Michael Flaherty - --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 14:07:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: This Is More Mysterious Than Your Nothces ron wrote: >years later, she realised her mistake & wrote a song about it. only she was embarassed, & instead of just saying that it happened to a friend (she had her reputation as a creative writer to protect) she claimed that it happed to a dry cleaner from des moines. I like everything but your ending--she wrote about the dry cleaner before she wrote about the cig machine. :) MF Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 16:13:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Female Bob Dylan Hi Benie - welcome to the JMDL, and thanks for the post. Please know that nothing has been banned (although a couple of PEOPLE have been) and old topics come 'round again many times, so feel free to ask/post/discuss whatever you like. It does seem a shame that we feel the need to add a qualifying adjective to Joni and others...best female songwriter, best black vocalist, best red-headed model, whatever. Maybe it's human nature, maybe it's taught, I dunno. And it certainly is silly to label Joni as the "female Dylan" as it's unlikely to see someone called the "male Joni". I have had to unlearn some of that behavior myself and try to think of things on their own terms - this group has had a lot to do with opening up the depths of my perception, that's for sure. Bob Now Playing: Bruce Springsteen, "Tunnel Of Love" Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:12:17 +1000 From: Mark-Leon Thorne Subject: Re: Sarah McLachlan's "River" I have extracted the audio from the Sarah McLachlan clip. If anyone wants a copy of the mp3, write to me off list and I'll send it to you. Mark in Sydney PS Happy Spring to everyone in the Southern Hemisphere. It's gorgeous here in Sydney. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:48:33 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Joni's albums-concept albums? I think that Joni always endeavored to include some unifying thread that enabled her individual albums to hang together each like a cohesive work. Sometimes the poetry tied tracks together, sometimes the instrumental arrangements. Her methods varied, changing with the material she was presenting and the prevalent format's time constraints...remember flipping albums? For many AOR artists the arc of playing a side often had a big opening and question mark ending for the first half of the record, a single release opening the second half and the record's most artistically challenging track or mega hit closing it. Vinyl records and the cassette tape formats were often limited to about 45 minutes of material (the tape format became unreliable in longer lengths), so artists (and their record companies) had to be very judicious about how they ordered songs so that the listening experience was paced much in the same way that editing choices allow the action in a feature film to hold the viewer. The reslult being that the listener had reasons for flipping the record, and buying the next one. I don't however think that Joni EVER made decisions on the instrumentation or pace of a specific track because she felt it was destined for a particular place in the song order...no, the poetry was too important and rightly so. Joni never favored hooks over message, God bless her. It was like building a dry wall from field stones...the rock fit the place or it went somewhere else. Of all Joni's albums, I think the one that jumps out to me as a concept piece probably had no intention in achieving such a label. All of "Hejira" has always had a very distinct aural landscape (I think that Eno is using the phrase "sonic landscapes" these days for Paul Simon) that I felt tied perfectly with the package's art direction. I'm sure the case could be made to varying degrees for many of Joni's other albums (especially HOSL, DJRD and BSN) but for me, Hejira's the one that in total seems insular and self-contained, if not conceptual. CC "The toss around your latest golden egg. Speculation, who's to know if the next one in the next will glitter for them so." -- JM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 23:54:58 -0500 From: "Music Is Special" Subject: * Perpetual Joni Covers Train: Volumes 61-70 of JM Covers In order to enable latecomers to the list or new traders have a chance of listening to Bob Muller's incredible compilation of covers of Joni's songs here is the latest round of the Perpetual Joni Covers Trains. For those not familiar with trading trains, here is how they work: When the disks come to you, you make copies of as much of the contents as you want, and then you post back to this list offering to pass the disks along to the next person. You do not keep the originals -- you keep the copies you made for yourself. On most trains, the convention is that you make the copies and send the masters along within two days. For these trains, you must agree to turn them around within one week. Sometimes the offer goes unclaimed. Bob and I expect that to happen from time to time. So, by participating, you agree to just hang on to the disks and then make another offer a month or so later (or to respond if somebody posts a grovel looking for them). In theory, if everybody takes good care of the disks, wrapping them well, not letting them get scratched, etc. and passes them along, these covers will run on the tracks for years. Nobody is going to monitor the progress of these trains so if you participate and then lose the disks or fail to reoffer them, you will have kept others from enjoying them. When you post an offer, please include these "rules". One final note, I know a few folks like to compress these into MP3s. If you want to, go ahead but please do not send MP3s to the next person - MP3s permanently delete some of the "data" and sound quality degrades so please pass the masters along. So, anybody who would like to receive volumes 51-60, please send me: 1. Your mailing address and 2. Your promise to reoffer, etc. Enjoy and have a nice weekend, Eric P.S. If you are sitting on any of the earlier rounds, please offer them up again as its been a year and new folks might be interested. Thanks ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #251 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)