From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #213 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, July 27 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 213 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Let's Sing Out videos ["P. Henry Boland" ] Re: Helpless [LCStanley7@aol.com] A blooper anyone? [Dave Blackburn ] Re: A blooper anyone? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Helpless [Catherine McKay ] Re: A blooper anyone? [Em ] Re: A blooper anyone? [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] 33 1/3 Series to highlight C&S [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: A blooper anyone? ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] Re: A blooper anyone? [Em ] Jack Neilson [ReckersL@ebrd.com] New Joni Lover on the Block [Alice Brown ] Re: Helpless & "Let's Sing Out" clip too! ["P. Henry Boland" ] Re: New Joni Lover on the Block [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] RE: A blooper anyone? And Hello to Alice ["Azeem" ] Jack.... loss in our family [Peep Richman ] Re: New Joni Lover on the Block [Em ] Re: New Joni Lover on the Block ["Evelyne Dubois" ] Re: A blooper anyone? [Dave Blackburn ] Re: A blooper anyone? ["ron" ] poetical correctness{ was RE: A blooper anyone?} ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: A blooper anyone? ["Cassy" ] Re: poetical correctness{ was RE: A blooper anyone?} ["Cassy" ] Re: poetical correctness{ was RE: A blooper anyone?} ["Mark Scott" Subject: Re: The Let's Sing Out videos thanks bob, I sent this link to my friend who converted the wembley clip from this same site. hopefully he can do the same with these. (just for fun) cheers, pat - -------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:24:16 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: The Let's Sing Out videos Matt posted the link to "Favourite Colour" last week - here are the videos to all of the 1965-66 tracks from the "Let's Sing Out" video: http://www.youtube.com/results?search=joni+cbc&search_type=search_videos&search=Search Bob - -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:28:53 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Helpless Pat wrote: ....Joni and the gang performing "Helpless" at Wembley Stadium-9/14/74. Maybe old news here but the first I've seen it. Hope some of you will enjoy it. Let me know if it doesn't work. _http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=02B8A60242A89874_ (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=02B8A60242A89874) Hi Pat, Thanks. Nice morning meditation for me. I feel helpless right now. There are men in the sky outside, visible from our back windows putting up a monopole cell tower. I don't even know what to call this new form of paving paradise... The neighbors down the hill are making money off renting space to Verizon to violate our horizon. Both my husband and I went to our neighbors and asked them not to do this. They weren't concerned. They own a furniture store, Hearn's Furniture. No concern from the Hearns. We tried to appeal it through our city, had the support of the city, but it was to no avail and now this thing is sort of aimed right at us. Two of our kids can lay in their beds and see the top of the thing because it is right at the level of their bedrooms since the pole starts on the ground down the hill, and we are at the top of the hill. We estimate it is a little over the length of a footballl field from us. A guy in our area got fined and prohibited from putting up too many Christmas lights several years ago. But, this neighbor down the hill from us can put up this ugly, radiating cell tower in our face, possibly jeopardizing my children's health and impinging on the magnificent view we built up here to enjoy. I'm not against cell phones. I use one every day, with a corded ear piece. I'm not against pavement either because I drive on it daily. But, I am against local city helplessness over big business coming in and creating environmental pollution both visible and invisible. There's no freedom in this. Helpless, helpless, helpless... Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:52:55 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: A blooper anyone? We all know and admire Joni's mastery of poetic compression, painting rich and dimensional mental pictures with a few deft strokes, such as "between the forceps and the stone", "like a dragonfly on a tomb", "she tilts their tired faces gently to the spoon" and on and on with never a redundant or unnecessary word. And she manages rhyme so beautifully you feel like you have never heard her rhyming pairs used before, no small feat in the world of the pop song. So, I have always wondered, what is up with this?: I am a lonely painter I live in a box of paints I'm frightened by the devil and I'm drawn to those ones that ain't afraid.... "Ain't" and "paint" are obviously the rhyming pair and the referent of "frightened" is perfectly carried over to the next line without the clumsy and redundant repetition of "afraid". Why do you think such a craft master as JM would have thought it necessary to hammer an obvious point and screw up a perfect rhyme scheme? Does anyone have any other possible Joni bloopers to unearth? Thought it might make for an interesting thread... Dave Blackburn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:29:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? That's an interesting lyric, Dave - I remember a thread from way, way back when someone thought the "I live in a box of paints" line was pretty weak. And some of us have heard an early live version from 1970 when she sang the last line as: "And I'm scared to death of saints", which I think is actually a better line; it scans better, and it's a better contrast to the 'devil' line - it places Joni in a kind of no-man's land between the two groups - although I suppose it could also be argued that it's not a contrast at all; that those who are frightened by the devil and saints are the same group so she's being redundant. I don't why she made that change. I agree that in its final version she uses 'afraid' in a superfluous way, for that matter she does the same thing with 'ones'. If she sings "And I'm drawn to those that ain't" it makes the same statement, right? Not sure that I would call it a blooper - it's a bit clunky but I guess what I like about it is that Joni makes such an unconventional lyrical thing work so well. Bob NP: Ani, "Everest" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:21:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Helpless Here is the JC part. If the link expires and/or exceeds the number of downloads allocated, I will be happy to post another copy, since I have high-speed service. However, I won't do this until someone asks. I think the links expire in 7 days, so there may be some people on digest or running behind the times that don't see this until it's too late. > Pat wrote: > > ....Joni and the gang performing "Helpless" at > Wembley Stadium-9/14/74. > Maybe old news here but the first I've seen it. > Hope some of you will enjoy > it. Let me know > if it doesn't work. > > _http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=02B8A60242A89874_ > > (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=02B8A60242A89874) > The part below is njc, so Joni-onlies can take off now. - --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > I feel helpless right now. > There are men in the sky outside, visible from our > back windows putting up a > monopole cell tower. I don't even know what to > call this new form of paving > paradise... > > The neighbors down the hill are making money off > renting space to > Verizon to violate our horizon. Both my husband and > I went to our neighbors and > asked them not to do this. They weren't concerned. > They own a furniture > store, Hearn's Furniture. No concern from the > Hearns. > This is in a residential neighbourhood? In their backyard? And they are allowed to do this? It sounds to me as if it would violate a whole bunch of zoning bylaws and would also present an environmental concern. They would not be allowed to do this here. Do you live in a rural area, by any chance? I'm upset on your behalf, Laura. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:41:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? unconventional, quirky, idiosyncratic, even weak... it all provides texture. Texture can be irritating at times. Huh???? whats that in my ice cream? a strawberry stem??? but in the end one realizes that comes with the territory of eating the very best stuff. Hey that stem was there because I like it when she does lines that are imperfect, because then one comes along that really smacks the ball clean out of the park PERFECTLY, and so, there is contrast and it pulls your brain like pinching silly putty. Zing! A mere weak and brittle human, who has occaisionally "in these lines from time to time" flown like one with wings or a god. Anyway thats my take. Interesting to read you all's thoughts. :) Em - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Not sure that I would call it a blooper - it's a bit clunky but I > guess > what I like about it is that Joni makes such an unconventional > lyrical > thing work so well. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:01:45 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? Agreed - I hope that's what I was able to convey. I mean, who else would write that opening refrain in "Richard": "Last time I saw Richard was Detroit in '68 and he told me All romantics meet the same fate someday Cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe" Talk about lyrical texture! The whole song is like a mouthful of granola. And it's so unique to Joni, no one else could have conceived it, both in terms of rhyming patterns and syllables/line and the whole thing. She even uses "Moon" as one of her rhymes, but nary a spoon or June in sight; she chooses "immune" instead. Oh, yeah. Of course the original post was about bloopers which I'm still pondering. Bob NP: Ani, "Adam & Eve" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:17:58 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: 33 1/3 Series to highlight C&S Just saw this...looks like the 33 & 1/3 series of books dealing with classic albums will issue a Volume about Court & Spark: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0826417736/sr=1-1/qid=1153926338/ref=sr_1_1/104-7270114-2447900?ie=UTF8&s=books Bob NP: Bruce, "Frankie" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:15:43 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? Hey Dave Interesting that you pointed this out... it's what is called a 'feminine ending' if we were talking Shakespeare here - it is the extra half beat at the end of an iambic pentameter - it makes the line slightly 'weaker' and I can only think that it is deliberate. 'Ain't' just isn't a nice sound to end a line on perhaps... Like in Shakespeare, his hard and fast rule is to use the iambic pentameter. Until he breaks his own rules, that is. They are there for a purpose. The line ends on 'afraid' which which is pointed up because of the internal rhyme (pAInt, afrAId) so I think that it's there to ensure that we know what is more important (the fact that she is afraid, not the fact that she prefers the ones that aren't) to her at the moment of singing. Whenever I sing the song to myself, I always tend to (unconsciously) end on 'ain't' but then knwing it's there makes the line seem more vulnerable, different, imperfect. Perhaps like how she's feeling. Anyway, I could go on but I'm meant to be entering data.... Much Joni Jamie Zooby On 26/07/06, Dave Blackburn wrote: > We all know and admire Joni's mastery of poetic compression, > painting rich and dimensional mental pictures with a few deft > strokes, such as "between the forceps and the stone", "like a > dragonfly on a tomb", "she tilts their tired faces gently to the > spoon" and on and on with never a redundant or unnecessary word. And > she manages rhyme so beautifully you feel like you have never heard > her rhyming pairs used before, no small feat in the world of the pop > song. > > So, I have always wondered, what is up with this?: > > I am a lonely painter > I live in a box of paints > I'm frightened by the devil > and I'm drawn to those ones that ain't afraid.... > > "Ain't" and "paint" are obviously the rhyming pair and the referent > of "frightened" is perfectly carried over to the next line without > the clumsy and redundant repetition of "afraid". Why do you think > such a craft master as JM would have thought it necessary to hammer > an obvious point and screw up a perfect rhyme scheme? Does anyone > have any other possible Joni bloopers to unearth? > > Thought it might make for an interesting thread... > > Dave Blackburn > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 and on myspace at http://www.myspace.com/jamiezoob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? umm something missing....should say Hey that stem was there because you are eating the real deal home-made stuff and not the generic crap stuff. lol dumbass..sorry Em - --- Em wrote: > Hey that stem was there because > I like it when she does lines that are imperfect, because then one > comes along that really smacks the ball clean out of the park ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:30:45 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: Jack Neilson I only just now caught up with this message. Oh my goodness, how sad. Michael, my heart really goes out to you, and to Jack's family. I only met Jack once, at the 2002 Jonifest, and he left a really strong impression on me. He sang and played absolutely beautifully, I remember telling him so, and he just gave me a big hug. He seemed a warm, genuine and humble person. I bought his CD and have enjoyed playing it over the years. Tonight, when I get home, I will make sure I play it again, in his honour. I'll also play it in your honour, Michael, and in honour of friendship, one of the finest things in life. Lieve in London. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 01:29:26 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Jack Neilson Just got home from HOB seeing Michael Franks. Got a phone call from my friend Roger Wilson that I wish I never got. My best friend in life has checked out. ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:43:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Alice Brown Subject: New Joni Lover on the Block Hi, I just joined the Joni list and wanted to say hi, etc. I have listened to Joni since 1975, and having been playing her songs on the guitar for 30 years. I have loved every album, every painting and every photo of her. I have never met anyone else with such a love and devotion to Joni's music, so I was happy to find this list. If anyone lives near Plymouth, Michigan, I would love to get together and maybe jam if you are a musician. I am 47 years old, married with no children, a psychotherapist, author and teacher. I STILL get a real thrill from listening to and playing Joni's music. My favorite songs to play on the guitar are: Last Chance Lost The Wolf that Lives in Lindsay Cherokee Louise The Only Joy in Town Woman of Heart and Mind You Turn Me on I'm a Radio Big Yellow Taxi Conversation Slouching Towards Bethlehem When all the Slaves are Free Coyote Fury Sings the Blues Chelsea Morning Also on the Dulcimer: All I Want and A Case of You Oddly enough, I look like Joni Mitchell. And through the years when I'd see a picture of her, we'd always have the same hair style. Stll do! Thanks for listening, Alice Brown ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:20:19 -0500 From: "P. Henry Boland" Subject: Re: Helpless & "Let's Sing Out" clip too! Cat!!! Just how'd you ever get to be so sweet? Thank you! BTW, I mentioned before I forwarded the "Let's Sing Out" clips link Bob provided to my programmer friend and asked him to convert them to downloadables... Well, not long after I posted that I received this from him. I don't know which one it is as I'm just now trying to download it myself but here it is for your (hopefully) viewing pleasure: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=33BB821A4BE26025 Cheers, Pat - ----------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catherine > Here is the JC part. If the link expires and/or > exceeds the number of downloads allocated, I will be > happy to post another copy, since I have high-speed > service. However, I won't do this until someone asks. > I think the links expire in 7 days, so there may be > some people on digest or running behind the times that > don't see this until it's too late. - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:42:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Flaherty Subject: Re: New Joni Lover on the Block Alice Brown wrote: I have never met anyone else with such a love and devotion to Joni's music, You have now! Just wait .... Welcome. Michael Flaherty Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:23:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: New Joni Lover on the Block Hello Alice - and a big welcome to the JMDL! Isn't it an amazing feeling to finally join friends of spirit who can talk about all things Joni! You are most definitely not alone. And I have to say that I am very impressed with your songlist. You might want to consider putting the next Jonifest in your plans: http://www.jonimitchell.com/jonifest/ We have several Michiganders on the list; I myself was born in Detroit and lived in Dearborn Heights, Flint, Livonia and Grand Rapids but have lived in the Carolinas since '68. Please jump right in and contribute - looking forward to hearing from you. Bob Now Playing: Ani, "The Slant/The Diner" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:17:08 +0100 From: "Azeem" Subject: RE: A blooper anyone? And Hello to Alice <<: Re: A blooper anyone? That's an interesting lyric, Dave - I remember a thread from way, way back when someone thought the "I live in a box of paints" line was pretty weak. And some of us have heard an early live version from 1970 when she sang the last line as: "And I'm scared to death of saints", which I think is actually a better line; it scans better, and it's a better contrast to the 'devil' line - it places Joni in a kind of no-man's land between the two groups - although I suppose it could also be argued that it's not a contrast at all; that those who are frightened by the devil and saints are the same group so she's being redundant. I don't why she made that change. >> This reminds me of a wonderful line from the title song of Linda Thompson's first (long deleted) solo album: "Rather an instant with the angels/Than a lifetime with the saints/All I need is one clear moment/One clear moment's all it takes." And welcome Alice, from another therapist, who hadn't even started training when I joined this list. Today, I said goodbye to my third ever client, after more than five and a half years, and four years after completing my training. I sang her Ain't No Going Back, a song of Annabel Lamb's, as a parting gift. Not a dry eye in the house :-) Azeem in London NP: Linda Peters [as she was then] - Sometimes it Happens - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/399 - Release Date: 25/07/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Peep Richman Subject: Jack.... loss in our family Hello, Since I've been unable to make any connection with cyberspace for several months, I started reading recent Digests. The news of Jack's death is chilling, although I never had the gift of meeting Jack in person. This morning I wrote to Paz. My heart is filled with sorrow for Paz, Jack's family and his many, many friends. After my father's death in 1981 I heard a quote (can't find the name of the author) that brought me comfort. "In memory is life's reason." I am hopeful that the meaning of these words will bring comfort to all who are grieving. Love from Bo - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 11:50:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: New Joni Lover on the Block welcome Alice! you will get a huge Joni-fix here, anytime you need or want. :) Em Florida (also 47) - --- Alice Brown wrote: > Hi, > > I just joined the Joni list and wanted to say hi, etc. I have > listened to Joni since 1975, and having been playing her songs on the > guitar for 30 years. I have loved every album, every painting and > every photo of her. I have never met anyone else with such a love > and devotion to Joni's music, so I was happy to find this list. If > anyone lives near Plymouth, Michigan, I would love to get together > and maybe jam if you are a musician. I am 47 years old, married with > no children, a psychotherapist, author and teacher. I STILL get a > real thrill from listening to and playing Joni's music. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:54:15 -0400 From: "Evelyne Dubois" Subject: Re: New Joni Lover on the Block Hi there and welcome! > I have never met anyone else with such a love and devotion to Joni's music, so I was happy to find this list. If anyone lives near Plymouth, Michigan, I would love to get together and maybe jam if you are a musician. I am 47 years old, married with no children, a psychotherapist, author and teacher. I STILL get a real thrill from listening to and playing Joni's music. Me neither .... and me too! Feels good to have found this don't it? Lot's of kind and Joni knowledgeable people on this list. Not a musician strickly speaking put ALWAYS love to put on a harmony to those weird cords here in Montreal! I'm a sociologist working in the health population field and the mother of pre-teen women in middle of a Joni addiction process :-)). Evelyne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:28:18 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? Ron and Zooby make valid points in finessing the "afraid" concept to allow for Joni's extra verbiage. But Shakespeare's "feminine rhyme" notwithstanding, in the case of Joni the line is problematic because it is awkward in rhythm and does not scan well vocally in addition to being apparently redundant. One never associates her writing with those negatives. Perhaps it's the exception that proves the rule. In hindsight I regret using the word "blooper" in my original post; "a lapse of flawless songcraft" perhaps. I suppose the fact that it's got us talking about the line means it is more striking than another we have not mentioned. I just thought it seemed like an odd line for such a master wordsmith (and honestly it bugs me a bit when I hear it..... but not as bad as Neil Diamond's "songs she sang to me, songs she brang to me"!!) Dave On Jul 26, 2006, at 3:26 PM, ron wrote: > hi > > > > >>>>dave wrote >>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think such a craft master as JM would have >>>>>>>>>>>> thought it necessary to hammer an obvious point and >>>>>>>>>>>> screw up a perfect rhyme scheme? Does anyone have any >>>>>>>>>>>> other possible Joni bloopers to unearth? > > > joni - bloopers - fie on you you heretic :-) > > actually - i guess weve probably all wondered about that from time > to time. > > my conclusion was that if the line was left at aint, then clearly > the line follows on from the previous one & means she is referring > to people who are specifically not afraid of the devil. as it is, > the line is expanded to mean people who are generally not afraid, > not just of the devil. so she is drawn to generally confident > people who help her overcome her fear - eg "he makes friends easy, > hes not like me, i watch for judgement easily" > > > ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:26:19 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? hi >>>>dave wrote >>>>>>>>>>> Why do you think such a craft master as JM would have thought >>>>>>>>>>> it necessary to hammer an obvious point and screw up a perfect >>>>>>>>>>> rhyme scheme? Does anyone have any other possible Joni bloopers >>>>>>>>>>> to unearth? joni - bloopers - fie on you you heretic :-) actually - i guess weve probably all wondered about that from time to time. my conclusion was that if the line was left at aint, then clearly the line follows on from the previous one & means she is referring to people who are specifically not afraid of the devil. as it is, the line is expanded to mean people who are generally not afraid, not just of the devil. so she is drawn to generally confident people who help her overcome her fear - eg "he makes friends easy, hes not like me, i watch for judgement easily" ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:14:55 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: poetical correctness{ was RE: A blooper anyone?} OK, I'm a pedantic poetry professor, but I have two points to make here, Point 1: A feminine ending in a line of iambic pentameter is when the line ends on an extra unstressed syllable. Shakespeare, in sonnet 20, for instance, ends every line with a feminine ending. Note that there are 11 syllables in every line, and yet the meter is regular iambic pentameter. A woman's face with Nature's own hand painted Hast thou, the master-mistress of my passion; A woman's gentle heart, but not acquainted With shifting change, as is false women's fashion; An eye more bright than theirs, less false in rolling, Gilding the object whereupon it gazeth; A man in hue, all hues in his controlling, Which steals men's eyes and women's souls amazeth. And for a woman wert thou first created, Till Nature as she wrought thee fell a-doting, And by addition me of thee defeated, By adding one thing to my purpose nothing. But since she pricked thee out for women's pleasure, Mine be thy love, and thy love's use their treasure. Point 2: Joni is writing song lyrics. "I'm draw to those ones that ain't afraid" is dictated by the music, and the lyrics are dependent on the music. It wouldn't sound right without "afraid." She's not writing in iambic pentameter. And it works. It's a song, not a poem. Joni writes songs, not poems (regardless of what Camille Paglia says). Great songs. There's not a wasted word in "A Case of You" nor a wasted note. Curmudgeonly yours Professor Flynn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:01:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? Dave Blackburn wrote: > Ron and Zooby make valid points in finessing the "afraid" concept to > allow for Joni's extra verbiage. But Shakespeare's "feminine rhyme" > notwithstanding, in the case of Joni the line is problematic because > it is awkward in rhythm and does not scan well vocally in addition to > being apparently redundant. And yet draws attention to it, and makes it memorable. Clever, that Joni, eh? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:13:09 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: A blooper anyone? From: "ron" <<< my conclusion was that if the line was left at aint, then clearly the line follows on from the previous one & means she is referring to people who are specifically not afraid of the devil. as it is, the line is expanded to mean people who are generally not afraid, not just of the devil. so she is drawn to generally confident people who help her overcome her fear - eg "he makes friends easy, hes not like me, i watch for judgement easily" >>> And even anxiously. I am a lonely painter I live in a box of paints I'm frightened by the devil and I'm drawn to those ones that ain't afraid.... I've read what people have written about this particular verse of Joni's, some think it's weak, others think it's a lapse in her flawless lyricism or that it's awkward. For me, songs aren't always related to the lyrics alone. While the lyrics are hugely important they HAVE to meld with the melody and from time to time if a poem is being set to music the lyrics must change to fit better. I cannot imagine the music for that verse without the word afraid at the end of the last line. Regardless of the fact that the poetic value in the verse may be compromised, I submit it's not a poem at all... it's a song. Can you sing along and leave off the last word? Does it sound right in your head? "And I'm scared to death of saints" isn't a better line in my opinion because I agree with Ron that Joni wrote this line to express she's drawn to confident people not necessarily those who ain't frightened by the devil. The words "drawn to those ones that ain't afraid" is an indicator of a strength in people which she finds herself attracted to. Warmly, Cassy NP: A Surfer Courted Me - Martha Tilston ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:15:41 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: poetical correctness{ was RE: A blooper anyone?} From: "Richard Flynn" <<< Joni is writing song lyrics. "I'm draw to those ones that ain't afraid" is dictated by the music, and the lyrics are dependent on the music. It wouldn't sound right without "afraid." She's not writing in iambic pentameter. And it works. It's a song, not a poem. Joni writes songs, not poems (regardless of what Camille Paglia says). Great songs. There's not a wasted word in "A Case of You" nor a wasted note. >>> That will teach me to read ALL my mail before replying to something I've read. lol Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:39:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Blue Boy - sung by Jack Neilson I thought people who don't know him would like to hear Jack Neilson's rendition of Joni's "Blue Boy". This is taken from the two-CD New Orleans Tribute to Joni Mitchell at the Howlin' Wolf - Pazfest, May 28, 2000. I'm sure Paz won't mind. The CD still seems to be available at CD baby where you can hear samples of more songs (http://cdbaby.com/cd/pazfest) Blue Boy - Jack Neilson.mp3 (4 MB) Link: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=1564BEDF1240649C Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:12:52 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: poetical correctness{ was RE: A blooper anyone?} - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Flynn" > "I'm draw to those ones that ain't afraid" is dictated by the music, and > the > lyrics are dependent on the music. It wouldn't sound right without > "afraid." She's not writing in iambic pentameter. And it works. It's a > song, not a poem. Joni writes songs, not poems (regardless of what > Camille > Paglia says). Great songs. There's not a wasted word in "A Case of You" > nor a wasted note. My feeling is that Joni was loosening up in her lyrics and her performance style at this point, becoming earthier, more casual. The whole 'Blue' album came from her gut. And somehow the addition of 'afraid' at the end of that line finishes the thought, meter and rhyme scheme be damned! Leave us not forget that it was on her next album that she sang 'Win your medals, f*ck your strangers/Don't it leave you on the empty side'. She was shedding some of her preciousness at this point. The Mama Lion was about to emerge and the Mama Lion don't give a tiddly sh*t whether it scans or not, as long as the thought is expressed, the point made. If you're feeling contempt (or whatever), well then you tell it! But it always fits perfectly with the music. Nobody welds lyrics and melody together so flawlessly as Joni. Maybe not the same number of notes or syllables in every line but the minor adjustments here and there are exactly what the song needs and no more or less. Anyway that's what I think. As if thinking makes things so! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:10:29 -0500 From: "P. Henry Boland" Subject: Another clip: "The Beginning" '66-'67 from WOHAM This is naturally my favorite segment of Joni's history. When we wuz pals. http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F600D9D926600BC5 - -- "The last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." http://www.angelfire.com/pq2/phenryboland/ - -- - -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp? SRC=lycos10 ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #213 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)