From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #163 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 7 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 163 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The "Joni Standard" [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Jonifest ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: No Joni ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: The "Joni Standard" ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Jonifest ["Lori Fye" ] RIP Billy Preston [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Jonifest Dates [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: RIP Billy Preston [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Re: RIP Billy Preston ["Cassy" ] Re: RIP Billy Preston [Em ] Re: RIP Billy Preston [Catherine McKay ] joni high five ["ron" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 09:03:50 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: The "Joni Standard" Garret, in his thoughtful and (perhaps unwittingly) provacative post, wrote: "I think that Joni has become the standard against which other (female) singer-songwriters are compared (have you ever seen a male called "the next Joni Mitchell" in a music publication?)." I agree - there is basically no doubt that Joni is the standard for female singer-songwriters (though perhaps that term understates her art, which might also embrace composer, poet, and instrumental innovater, not to mention painter and - in terms of craft as art - record producer). Not only is that emphasized by the critics continual use of the term "next Joni Mitchell" - how often do you see a reference to any other female artist - the next "XYZ", for example - but it is a point that is pretty much flat out conceded by other female artists, including most of those closest in skill, talent and achievement over the years (and certainly true of those whose work is directionally "girl with a guitar" oriented). The Joni standard is a terribly high one indeed - it must be somewhat depressing to contemplate what it might take to join her ranks. But that is what will inspire the next great one someday. Surely Jack Nicklaus inspires Tiger Woods to achieve new levels. I know that Joni is fond of the compliment that she makes "raceless, genderless music". However, that is not true of all her music by any means. She is blessed and cursed as we all are by our sex. Some of her greatest art is informed by her female perspective - and her female voice. What a woman ! Viva la difference ! This raises the proverbial question of whether art can or ought to be measured for its greatness in a relative or even an absolute sense, and if so, which comparisons are fair and reasonable. Is it fair to compare Annika and Tiger ? There, the answer is easier in a sense. The physical differences between the sexes render many athletic comparisons unfair, and make it easier to separate the comparisons. Not so for art, and music, and poetry - Joni's milieus. It is true that Joni is not in the perfect position to write a song that is distinctly male in its perspective - though I would love to listen to her best effort in that direction. Nor would one expect Bob Dylan to compose Woman of Heart and Mind from a female perspective. Nevertheless, I believe that popular music created by men and women can be - in most cases and in the aggregate - - be compared against each other, critiqued and "rated" in the exercise to which human nature is so often drawn - that is, to determine that which is great and deserving of that recognition. In that sense, I believe that Joni's body of work is the greatest to have emerged from "popular music", irrespective of the sex of the artist. And, uniquely, IMO, it is representative the highest levels in every area of the work - singing, instrumentalism (although this more in terms of contributions to the instrument rather than "chops" per se), recording, melodic and harmonic composition, lyrics of poetic quality and emotional and intellectual substance. That her rating in "greatest artist" polls does not reflect my view says something. Perhaps I am wrong - but I don't think so. In this area, I sense "there are still more reasons". Sexism plays a part, perhaps. I believe that is true in terms of the critics themselves not being willing to go there. Better to avoid the discomfort of saying "Joni Mitchell's music leaves Bob Dylan's in the dust" by hiding behind the demarcator of "well, you can't compare the two, because she's a woman and he's a man." Nevertheless, in the dreamworld of "mirror, mirror on the wall", Joni is Bob Dylan's - and everbody else's - recurring nightmare. Or, perhaps something inherent is at work - like the concept that much of nature's music is created by the male, to woo the female - which in turn inspires the males to be the competitors and the females to be the evaluators/admirers of "popular" song. I propose this in a directional sense, not an absolute one. It's the bell curve thing, again.And, of course, the record industry - and Joni's aversion to self-promotion - didn't help her achieve the fullest exposure. Garrett continued "To me, a modern-day Joni does not necessarily have to sound anything like Joni, does not have to be influenced by Joni, look like Joni, smell like Joni;-) For me, it's someone who pushes the proverbial musical envelope. It's someone who is writing original music that goes against the grain, that introduces something new, is both accessable and a challenge, and, most of all, follows a unique path. For me, this is when popular songwriting becomes art." Well put. You see Joni as a standard defining art. Those that do not aspire to the above are not aspiring to art. I agree. The question is - is aspiration and originality enough ? Some might say yes; I think not. You want to paint Van Gogh's - well, that will take a lot of things lining up; talent, creativity, inspiration, hard knocks, harder work and determination, to produce that which is excellent, brilliant or ultimately great. And much more of which I have no understanding, I'm sure. "I could mention your Tom Waits and Patti SMith and Bruce Springsteen type people but they aren't always considered modern (why?? do not they still produce great music??). I would point to Beck, Bjork, maybe Fiona Apple, Rufus Wainwright (and others that i just can't think of on a sunny monday) as artists forging unique musical paths that may little resemble Joni, but deserve to be recognsied for their contributions. Maybe the comparisons with Joni are a bit thin on the ground, but i think it is more a conceptual likeness than a musical likeness." Again well put. IMO, though, their work does not stand up to Joni's in terms of overall greatness - breadth, and depth and height - and weight. Which is why Joni is the standard for me - irrespective of sex. Hey, I was a Beatles nut until Joni came along. Still waiting for the next one who even comes close.............. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 09:25:59 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Jonifest Hi Bo, Ashara has tentatively planned something at Full Moon Resort http://www.fullmooncentral.com/ for 3-29 to 4-1/07 - I believe are the dates. a wonderful place in the Catskill Mountain area of upstate New York. We've had several Jonifests there in the recent past and it is a perfect venue for this group of music lovers. There are several lodging areas with clean comfortable rooms. 3 wonderful meals a day are included, the grounds are spacious and beautiful with scenic views of forest and mountains all around. There is a place for us to give performances, a pool, a pond with ducks a pool room for hanging out into the wee hours of the night/morning to play music and bond with each other. The main house has several common areas with 2 pianos and a library and an outside deck - all excellent places for hanging out, drinking coffee, playing music and sharing. The website should help you get a better feel for what the place is like, where it is located, etc. Jonifest is wonderful no matter where it's held, hope you will plan to attend! Love Donna I'm COMPLETELY confused about when and where the next Joni-fest is being planned. Help me out? Sending love with hope that life is treating everyone gently. Bo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 15:32:18 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: No Joni This is so, so, so, so true!! No one can write such colorful lyrics with so much imagery. No one can take those lyrics and put them music that seems out of this world because of it's unique chord structure and guitar tunings. No one can sing these songs so beautifully peculiar as Joni does. Putting it all together...you get Joni Mitchell and there will never be anyone else even remotely like her. It's like she's in another galaxy! I think she is a musical genius...I really do!!! Sherelle Mingus wrote: " Bo ..writes. For me there are no modern-day Joni's. There are talented musicians...lyrics that reflect thought provoking reactions....but I haven't EVER come across ANYONE or could even be slightly compared to Joni. I do, however, hear Joni's influence. But "like Joni"...NEVER. I'm with you on that Bo! I have always felt that way that no one compares to Joni.,and wrote that to Smurf awhile back. Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 09:17:09 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The "Joni Standard" I find comparions moot. Is the painting 'Sunflowers' better than the actual article, or vice versa? Is Joni's finest (and who would judge what that is) the best or better than Lady X, Sir Something. Art is art. All different and all with its own merits. Like Joni wrote or sang somewhere, each moment has its meaning and its purpose as does everything else and she wasn't even the first to say or think those things. And wrong, there can be no wrong in opinion. . mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 10:00:44 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Jonifest Bobsart wrote: > Seriously - please don't make me read that other digest to get my Jonifest > news. Or else ! The main reason we tend not to talk about Jonifest without the N*JC tag is is that -- presumably -- most of the folks on the "only Joni" list want only information and discussion about Joni Mitchell. While Jonifest certainly exists because of Joni and her fans, it isn't really ABOUT Joni. So we try not to "burden" the "only Joni" list with a lot of details about the fest. Here is the best place to be if you want news about the next Jonifest: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/northeastjonifest If you're not a member already, click on "Join This Group!" and follow the prompts. As the fest gears up, Ashara or someone else will likely remind the "only Joni" list about it periodically, in an effort to make sure no one who wants to attend is left out. (Please consider this email that periodic reminder, and tag responses with N*JC.) Also, if you know of a current or former JMDL member who might be interested in news about the fest, please share information with them and invite them to join the Northeast Jonifest Yahoo group. And visit/share this link, too: http://www.jonifest.com Thanks, Lori SF Bay Area, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:23:49 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RIP Billy Preston Just heard this news - another tremendous talent gone. Of course, besides his own career as a solo artist, he played on lots of Beatles sessions and on Joni's Travelogue sessions as well...that's his wicked organ on "You Dream Flat Tires" - which he had been utilized more on the project and said so when it came out. Rest easy, Mr. Preston - job well done. Bob NP: Billy Preston, "Outa Space" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 14:15:02 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest Dates Bo wrote: << I'm COMPLETELY confused about when and where the next Joni-fest is being planned. Help me out?>> March 29th-April 2nd, 2007 at Full Moon in Oliveria, NY. Details coming soon!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 18:54:50 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: RIP Billy Preston Billy also marvelously performed at the Concert for George a few years ago. He left us a lot more than nothing from nothing leaves nothing, he left us a great deal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Preston http://www.billypreston.net/ (theRev) Vince - -- http://www.southsiders.net - -------------- Original message -------------- From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Just heard this news - another tremendous talent gone. Of course, besides > his own career as a solo artist, he played on lots of Beatles sessions and > on Joni's Travelogue sessions as well...that's his wicked organ on "You > Dream Flat Tires" - which he had been utilized more on the project and > said so when it came out. > > Rest easy, Mr. Preston - job well done. > > Bob > > NP: Billy Preston, "Outa Space" > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, > business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you > are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, > dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken > in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:19:43 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: RIP Billy Preston From: <<< RIP Billy Preston >>> I had the pleasure of seeing Billy Preston on tour with the Rolling Stones in 1972. He performed as their warm-up artist then joined the Stones onstage for their performance too. This concert was memorable for me because a friend of mine who is stone-deaf knew how much I liked both the Stones and Billy Preston and was able to come up with second row tickets through venue contacts. He invited me to go to the concert with him and we had a wonderful time even though he couldn't hear a note. He did feel the beat and being among such a lively audience was a great experience for him. I ran into him not long ago and he told me it's the only concert he's ever been to. I always enjoyed Billy Preston's music and I'm sad to see another classic musician make his transition. Warmly, Cassy NP: Pet - A Perfect Circle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:20:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: RIP Billy Preston if someone's butt didn't move to Mr Preston's groove, then that person's butt just plain DIDn't move. Ever. I really loved his stuff...have a few cuts on my iPod now. I first was aware of him, I *think* in the Concert for Bangladesh flick. What many of my teeny bopper friends saw as "filler" material, just really REALLY moved me. I loved watching him bop around behind that keyboard. Then the couple of hits he had on AM radio, I thought were bright spots in an often dismal scene. Just joyful music that man made. yep, RIP.. Em - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Just heard this news - another tremendous talent gone. Of course, > besides > his own career as a solo artist, he played on lots of Beatles > sessions and > on Joni's Travelogue sessions as well...that's his wicked organ on > "You > Dream Flat Tires" - which he had been utilized more on the project > and > said so when it came out. > > Rest easy, Mr. Preston - job well done. > > Bob > > NP: Billy Preston, "Outa Space" > > - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, > business-confidential and/or privileged material. > If you are not the intended recipient of this message you > are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, > dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken > in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:34:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: RIP Billy Preston - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > Just heard this news - another tremendous talent > gone. Of course, besides > his own career as a solo artist, he played on lots > of Beatles sessions and > on Joni's Travelogue sessions as well...that's his > wicked organ on "You > Dream Flat Tires" - which he had been utilized more > on the project and > said so when it came out. > > Rest easy, Mr. Preston - job well done. > > Bob > > NP: Billy Preston, "Outa Space" OH Noooooooooo! Nothing from nothing leave nothing. Will it go 'round in circles? Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky? Yes, a major talent. So sad to see them go. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 23:07:26 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: joni high five hi i was just on itunes & it took me to the music store, where i saw a joni release called Rhino HighFive with five songs: a case of you help me big yellow taxi you turn me on im a radio free man in paris i dont remember hearing about this? (or am i going senile) is it just the originals, or is at anything new? ron np - joni - love (travelogue version) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #163 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)