From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #150 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, May 25 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 150 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni and The France Myth [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni ringtones (VLJC) [LCStanley7@aol.com] Happy Birthday, Bob [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Happy Birthday, Bob [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni and The France Myth ["Mark Scott" ] Re: Don Alias interview ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: back to Joni work, porous with travel fever ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Joni and The France Myth [Nuriel Tobias ] Re: Joni and The France Myth [Monafitz@aol.com] Re: Joni and The France Myth [Catherine McKay ] FW: Message from Website ["Les Irvin" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 03:11:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Joni and The France Myth It's a well known fact that Americans, more than anoyne, have always been very fond of Paris and France. The America-Paris connection has become a myth in American culture, and Joni has mentioned Paris and France several times in her songs. In fact, it's the most popular non-American place in Joni's lyrics (followed by Rome, i think). I most confess i never understood why Paris is so popular, mainly in terms of being the most romantic city on earth. I've been there 3 times, and while everyone around me acted as if they were in heaven - i only sensed artificiality, a city that's "produced" rather than natural. I always felt a bit uncomfortable listening to In France They Kiss On Main Street and Free Man In Paris. No doubt they are both great songs, i mean, really great songs - but i never understood how a clever girl like Joni could have fallen into such a cliche, and to me, Paris is one of the "worst" cliches i ever heard of (people who adore Paris remind me of little girls thinking that barbi dolls are true beauty). But my main point is that, as i see it, Joni has grown out of the Paris fantasy - and i'm talking about Love Puts On a New Face. While in In France They Kiss and in Free Man Joni is flirtting with the Paris cliche and, for some reason, is celebrating it (The cafes and boulevards and so on) - in Love Puts On a New Face, France is finally getting back to what it "should" be - sort of a lonely southern girl's fantasy of the most romantic place, a girl that has never been there but only heard about it and hangs on to that dream. (Same as in Judy's My Father). France, in that song, is more of an ideal, rather than the glorious city of lovers presented in Joni's earlier France-Paris songs. I'd love to hear your take... Yours, Nuri - --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 07:42:12 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni ringtones (VLJC) Smurf wrote: For what it's worth, I have long suspected that one 'ringtone' Joni loves is the sound the cash register makes. Hi Smurf, When I write the lab part of the tests for the med students, the cash register option in power point is the sound effect I use for the transition from one slide to the next. Kaaching! I wonder if Joni might like the sound of applause for a ring tone? Or the wind maybe? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 08:27:12 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Happy Birthday, Bob Happy birthday, Bob Dylan. Our Joni luvin9 WMNF is playing all Dylan and all Dylan covers. Had forgotten how gorgeous Roberta Flack9s Just Like a Woman was. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 10:20:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Bob Yes, indeed - as challenging as it is to collect Joni Mitchell covers, it would be nigh impossible to keep up with all the Dylan covers out there. The online reference All Music Guide lists 8 pages of Joni covers (our database is of course MUCH better) but it lists 58 pages of Dylan covers! Joni has "Both Sides Now", but Bobby D has at least a dozen or so songs which have been done with the same frequency. An amazing songwriter and personality. Blood On The Tracks is second only to Hejira on my list. Bob NP: Chappell Kingsland, "Cactus Tree" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. 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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 07:56:11 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Joni and The France Myth - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nuriel Tobias" > France, in that song, is more of an ideal, rather than the glorious city > of lovers presented in Joni's earlier France-Paris songs. > > I'd love to hear your take... > > Yours, > > Nuri Nuri, I don't know this for a fact and I've never been there myself but Joni probably first visited Paris before you were born and I suspect the city has changed a great deal in the last 40 or so years. I know when somebody told me there was a McDonalds on the Champs Elysee it sort of shattered some of my illusions about the place. I still want to go there some day. The Louvre, Notre Dame, the Eiffel Tower, the fact that it was never bombed during WWII - many things about it make it a place that still has a touch of the romantic and Old World about it for me. M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 08:25:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Don Alias interview I know... what a cliff hanger! >Don's final interview: See the entire interview at: And it ends just when things are getting personal. Quite appropriate. "AAJ: What about when you moved on and started working with Joni Mitchell? DA: Oh yeah, and then there was the time that I took Joni by Miles' house. Oh! [laughs] That's another story. With Joni, I'm in California. Miles at this time had gone to live in this villa with Juliette Greco; famous French actress. So anyway, I've got two kids and I can't afford to do this shit, so I went and I got a call from Lou Rawls. And Lou Rawls was big time in that field, Las Vegas, MGM Grand, that circuit. And I got to make some money. AAJ: Was Jaco in that band? DA: Oh no. I got Jaco in that band. All this happened at the same time I was getting a divorce, so I moved out to California. Joni and I had a beautiful four year relationship together. AAJ: No kidding. I wasn't aware of that. [Note: Due to length and the fact that further material was subsequently discussed but became personal, it was decided to end here]. Thank you, Don. All the best to you. DA: Thank you. take care. " Bobsart< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:32:33 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: back to Joni work, porous with travel fever >Yay Patti - glad you made it back and that you had a good trip. We've >missed you, it's been vewwy vewwy quiet. > >And I'm sorry, but if Ross don't know Hejira, he don't know Joni. > >Bob > Thanks, Bobarino! It sure is good to be back home, lemme tell ya. I loved a lot about Texas, Mack and Donna B. (especially meeting up with you!!), the people were so friendly and helpful, but I ended up with a subset of people that set up true trembling in my bones. I've heard people like this existed, but I've never been in their homes before, and I am still shocked and saddened by some of the mindsets I encountered. Scary to me. Very scary. I'm dying to share some stories with y'all, but I'm still strapped for time catching up on stuff. And don't worry about Ross not knowing Hejira....my Joni work is cut out for me, and I never shy away from THAT challenge....just ask my poor sons. They shake their heads, they say I'll never change....LOL! At this moment I am immersed in the ridiculous paperwork to obtain an H-1B visa for a new professor we are hiring. She is a scholar, already in this county, but today I have to spend HOURS filling out fifteen pages of information for Homeland Security. But don't worry folks, I'm keeping our country safe. Each person who strolls into my office this week is treated (whether they like it or not...lol) to a free play of Neil's "Let's Impeach the President." I know the words by heart now and I can air drum the beat as I sing. The humanities building keeps on rockin' in the free world as long as I have anything to say about it. Okay, back to that paperwork, as this plays in my head: Immigration Man Graham Nash There I was at the immigration scene Shining and feeling clean Could it be a sin? I got stopped by the immigration man He says he doesn't know if he can Let me in-let me in-immigration man Can I cross the line and pray I can stay another day Let me in immigration man I won't toe your line today I can't see it anyway There he was with his immigration face Giving me a paper chase But the sun was coming Cos all at once he looked into my space And stamped a number over my face And he sent me running Let me in-let me in-immigration man Can I cross the line and pray I can stay another day Let me in immigration man I won't toe your line today I can't see it anyway Here I am with my immigration form It's big enough to keep me warm When a cold wind's coming So go where you will So long as you think you can You'd better watch out-watch out-for the man Anywhere you're going. Won't you let me in immigration man Can I cross your line and pray Take your fingers from the tray Let me in-irritation man I won't toe your line today I can't see it anyway - --------------- Ah, I love Graham. Can't wait to see ALL of these guys this summer! Wooooo hoooo!!! Love and peace, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 13:09:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni and The France Myth - --- Mark Scott wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nuriel Tobias" > > France, in that song, is more of an ideal, rather > than the glorious city > > of lovers presented in Joni's earlier France-Paris > songs. > > > > I'd love to hear your take... > > > > Yours, > > > > Nuri > > Nuri, > > I don't know this for a fact and I've never been > there myself but Joni > probably first visited Paris before you were born > and I suspect the city has > changed a great deal in the last 40 or so years. I > know when somebody told > me there was a McDonalds on the Champs Elysee it > sort of shattered some of > my illusions about the place. I still want to go > there some day. The > Louvre, Notre Dame, the Eiffel Tower, the fact that > it was never bombed > during WWII - many things about it make it a place > that still has a touch of > the romantic and Old World about it for me. > > M. Good points, Mark, as always. Here's my old cynic's view. I first went to Paris when I was in high school. This would have been 1971 or so. The second time was last summer. Big changes, in both me and Paris, some for better, some for worse. In 1971, the Champs Elysee was still where the fashion houses were and it was still very cool and tres francais and probably similar to how it was when Joni was there. I remember "Le drugstore" which wasn't really a drugstore as we know them, but more a combination smallish dept store with a nice soda fountain or something like that. In 2005, the Champs Elysee was more like a mall outdoors. There was an HMV or some other big-box record store (maybe it was Virgin? Dunno. Maybe HMV is Canadian - in any case, it reminded me of HMV.) And bargain basement and tourist trap places. And McDonald's - merde! In 1971, walking around was lots of fun, but it was springtime - "I love Paris in the springtime." There weren't hordes of tourists there, just us high school groups. I got to see the Mona Lisa up close and walked up to the top of the tower in Notre Dame, went up to the top of the Eiffel Tower and ate an omelette there. In 2005, with my kids, we still did a lot of walking (except now my legs and feet hurt a lot!) and there were so many people there, mostly furriners comme moi, that it was HORRIBLE. But they warn you not to go in August, in any case, but it was really just a few days pit stop before Jonifest. There were lineups for the Eiffel Tower. We stood in line for two hours, paid to go to the top, waited for the elevator to go up, got to one level, shuffled around, because there were so many people you could do nothing but shuffle, then, to go to the very top, needed to line up yet AGAIN. And despite having paid to go to the top, the kids and I agreed it wasn't worth waiting another hour or two to go up and shuffle even more. You couldn't get anywhere near the Mona Lisa, because, once again, there were TONS of people, lining up to see her, and she was behind glass, whereas in 1971, she was not. There were lineups to see Notre Dame too, so we didn't even bother trying to go up. And you have to pay for everything too. I don't remember having to pay to stand in line to go up anywhere in 1971. In 2005, there were soldiers and police with guns everywhere, and security checks for every museum. And $7.00 Cokes at sidewalk cafes, if you were foolish enough to order that. This is the reality of the 21st century. 1971 was a more innocent time in so many ways. Maybe if I were 18 again, I would still find Paris romantic. It is very pretty, but so much of the sights are monuments built by emperors and generals as hommages to THEMSELVES - cheeky bastards! I did see people kissing in the streets, perhaps more than we do here. Once we got outside Paris, I liked it a lot more. I could live in France, but don't think I would want to live in Paris. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Nuriel Tobias Subject: Re: Joni and The France Myth Catherine McKay wrote: In 2005, the Champs Elysee was more like a mall outdoors. There was an HMV or some other big-box record store (maybe it was Virgin? Dunno. Maybe HMV is Canadian - in any case, it reminded me of HMV.) And bargain basement and tourist trap places. And McDonald's - merde! "McDonald's - merde!" is the best slogan i can think of for living in our world these days. And it's exactly what happened to Paris. My first visit was in 1980. I was 12 yo and very aware to the fact that everything was very expensive yet it seemed as if everybody could afford it but us. No doubt Paris is lots of fun for loaded people like Joni, but for common tourists...Well, it all depends on rather you were born for glamour or not cause Paris can be very cruel to common folks. Unless you're addicted to window shoping for things you can't afford or whatever. "You couldn't get anywhere near the Mona Lisa, because, once again, there were TONS of people, lining up to see her, and she was behind glass, whereas in 1971, she was not. There were lineups to see Notre Dame too, so we didn't even bother trying to go up. And you have to pay for everything too. I don't remember having to pay to stand in line to go up anywhere in 1971." That painted woman is the best selling female artist ever. It's like: From Mona Lisa to Joni Mitchell to Shakira - the story of women in art. She's really a symbol of female stars in the star maker machinery. I mean - there are so bloody many other great portraits of women, that girl sure had the best PR men working for her. She's the mother of all divas in sense of being the center of a massive commercial comotion around her. Same goes for that depressing tower and infact every monument in the world that has turned to a ticket stand for a lift, a cable car, a boat across the river. Rome is even worse. I love the fact that the only joy in town for Joni was some singing to himself sort of a beggar. The city is so obssesd with materialism it just looks unnatural. Seeing a man with a flower crown in Rome is basicly like seeing the Mesiah in hell. Nuri - --------------------------------- Feel free to call! Free PC-to-PC calls. Low rates on PC-to-Phone. Get Yahoo! Messenger with Voice ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 18:07:00 EDT From: Monafitz@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and The France Myth Nuri said: Joni has grown out of the Paris fantasy - and i'm talking about Love Puts On a New Face. While in In France They Kiss and in Free Man Joni is flirtting with the Paris cliche and, for some reason, is celebrating it Nuri, it could be that the "Paris Fantasy" had everything to do with "what happened" while in France than France itself. You know the L word. Based on my Paris experience, I gotta believe that that is the case but then, what do I know????? Cheers, Mona Mona A. Fitzgerald, JD Windsor, CT 06095 USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 20:21:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni and The France Myth - --- Nuriel Tobias wrote: > "McDonald's - merde!" is the best slogan i can > think of for living in our world these days. And > it's exactly what happened to Paris. > My first visit was in 1980. I was 12 yo and very > aware to the fact that everything was very expensive > yet it seemed as if everybody could afford it but > us. No doubt Paris is lots of fun for loaded people > like Joni, but for common tourists...Well, it all > depends on rather you were born for glamour or not > cause Paris can be very cruel to common folks. > Unless you're addicted to window shoping for things > you can't afford or whatever. Oh well, I'm poor too and couldn't afford to buy anything and it's just as well. It would just be expensive shit I don't need! Most of us can't afford that stuff. Europe is pretty expensive, certainly compared to Canada and the US. I think people there make do by buying fewer, but maybe better-made clothes and they don't eat as much, but what they eat is mostly very good - and they don't have the weight problems that we here in the US and Canada have. I'm not into window-shopping - hate it! but my daughter wanted to look. There was nothing of great interest on the Champs Elysee - the glamour has moved elsewhere. I'm not sure how rich Joni was when she was a free woman in Paris. Things were probably somewhat more affordable. You wouldn't go to Givenchy for your clothes, but maybe to Galleries Lafayette, then you'd go to the Champs Elysee for a coffee or something, and take forever drinking it. > That painted woman [Mona Lisa] is the best selling female > artist ever. It's like: From Mona Lisa to Joni > Mitchell to Shakira - the story of women in art. > She's really a symbol of female stars in the star > maker machinery. I mean - there are so bloody many > other great portraits of women, that girl sure had > the best PR men working for her. She's the mother of > all divas in sense of being the center of a massive > commercial comotion around her. Same goes for that > depressing tower and infact every monument in the > world that has turned to a ticket stand for a lift, > a cable car, a boat across the river. I wonder if the lady had a clue she would one day be so famous and what Leonardo would think. He'd probably say, "What about my other stuff? Is it chopped liver, or what?" I think there may be a Japanese cult centred around Mona - or it may have been Da Vinci code mania at work. I had seen her years earlier, but I asked the kids, "So, do ya wanna see the Mona Frickin' Lisa?" and they did, but we got maybe 20 feet away, saw a gazillion people queued up and went and looked at marble statues instead. > > Rome is even worse. I love the fact that the only > joy in town for Joni was some singing to himself > sort of a beggar. The city is so obssesd with > materialism it just looks unnatural. Seeing a man > with a flower crown in Rome is basicly like seeing > the Mesiah in hell. > I think the Botticelli black boy may have been in Cali-phone-ya and not in Rome, despite the fact that it sounds like Rome, with its Spanish steps and Botticelli mention. I think Kakki had a story about the real guy. Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 22:21:35 -0600 From: "Les Irvin" Subject: FW: Message from Website Anyone care to help Andy out with this one? - -----Original Message----- What was the inspiration for Morning Morgantown? Did Joni ever live in or visit Morgantown, West Virginia or did she ever attend West Virginia University? Thank You. Name: Andy Chattin email: a1eer@yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #150 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)