From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #143 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, May 18 2006 Volume 2006 : Number 143 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- now customer service ["Marianne Rizzo" ] A short play [Victor Johnson ] Re: A short play [Catherine McKay ] ultimate trivia question [Dave Blackburn ] Re: ultimate trivia question [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Joni in the workplace ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: ultimate trivia question [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: ultimate trivia question [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: ultimate trivia question [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Joni in the workplace [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: ultimate trivia question [Catherine McKay ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #142 [MattJones ] Priest lyrics query ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] Re: Joni in the workplace ["Patti Parlette" ] Joni thesis [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: ultimate trivia question [Dave Blackburn ] Re: Joni in the workplace ["Patti Parlette" ] Re: Joni in the workplace [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: A short play ["Jamie's Box of Paints" ] The Steel House [Kate ] RE: Priest lyrics query ["bluejr@adelphia.net" ] RE: Priest lyrics query ["Hell" ] Santa Barbara , beach , lyrics and Coyote [Darice ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #142 - scholarly articles about Joni [Joseph Pa] Re: Priest lyrics query ["Cassy" ] Ping Pat Henry Bolland!!! [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Joni in the workplace [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Priest lyrics query ["Mark Scott" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 06:41:55 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: now customer service Yeah, this didn't happen in the 60's and 70's. . no sir eee. . And what is this stuff at the end of the cell phone messages now? after your listen to your friend's message, you've got to hear to "to leave a call back number, press 1." "to leave a message, wait for the beep," "to page this person, . . . " E N O U G H! making you wait and racking up your minutes. . bla bla bla : -) Marianne catherine writes: >But, what's even worse is being a customer and calling some place that's got one of those automated answering systems that makes you choose from 9 different options and then, when you choose one, you have to choose from 9 more, and sometimes there's no zero-out to get a real person option. Or, if there is, then you get put in a queue to get a real person and in the meantime you're bombarded either with ads for the company's friggin' products, or with really crappy music-on-hold, interspersed with some BS about how much they *value* you as a customer and then... and then... when a *real* person DOES pick up the phone... they cut you off! and you have to go through it all over again ... and then, finally, you get a real person and that person is an obsequious bureaucrat with major attitude and the power to cut. you. off! Or, by the time someone does answer the phone... you've forgotten what you called about. But every once in a while, you get someone that answers the phone, doesn't give you attitude, answers your questions and sounds like a happy, human being and not a robot - and that surprises the hell out of me and I wonder what happened.< _________________________________________________________________ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:46:05 -0400 From: Victor Johnson Subject: A short play Act I : Joni, Picasso, and Seinfeld sitting on a street corner, Beckett walks up... Beckett: What are you doing? Picasso: Waiting for Godot. (Beckett looks puzzled) Picasso: It's a Joni thing...you wouldn't understand. Seinfeld: Not that there's anything wrong with that! (Joni sneezes) Seinfeld: You're so good looking! Joni: Kiss my ass. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:12:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: A short play Brilliant, Victor. We need to stage this at a Jonifest. And, in order to be true to the spirit of Beckett, we need to make it last three hours. There will be long periods of people sitting or standing there, some buried up to their necks and so on. - --- Victor Johnson wrote: > Act I : Joni, Picasso, and Seinfeld sitting on a > street corner, > Beckett walks up... > > Beckett: What are you doing? > > Picasso: Waiting for Godot. > > (Beckett looks puzzled) > > Picasso: It's a Joni thing...you wouldn't > understand. > > Seinfeld: Not that there's anything wrong with that! > > (Joni sneezes) > > Seinfeld: You're so good looking! > > Joni: Kiss my ass. > Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 07:52:41 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: ultimate trivia question Okay everyone (Bob especially); does anyone know who the fine gentleman portrayed in Coyote might have been? Some sort of rough but charming prairie type? Joni had "no regrets" so apparently enjoyed her seduction in "the roadhouse". I want his name, address and social security number please... lucky dog ;) Dave B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:59:43 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Re: ultimate trivia question It was Eminem. - -------------- Original message -------------- From: Dave Blackburn > Okay everyone (Bob especially); does anyone know who the fine > gentleman portrayed in Coyote might have been? Some sort of rough but > charming prairie type? Joni had "no regrets" so apparently enjoyed > her seduction in "the roadhouse". I want his name, address and social > security number please... lucky dog ;) > > > Dave B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:03:50 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Joni in the workplace Hi Lovies: LOL...I'm at work, and just opened this email from one of our professors (he likes Joni and understands and tolerates quite well my JMOCD): - -------------------- At 09:06 AM 5/17/2006: Subject: Both Sides NOW go to http://www.wmnr.org/ and click on "listen" on the right this minute! a classical version of the song. Laura just said, "oh my God who is singing that?!" - --------- I wrote back: Thanks, Stuart, but I missed it. Who performed it? Our "Covers King" (he has over 2000 Joni covers) will want (no -- NEED) to know! (Not that JMDLers are obsessive or anything.) Et quelle coincidence! That radio station is from where I went to high school....Monroe, CT! - -------- Joni in the workplace....chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, dontcha just love it? And I'm about to share Catherine's Beckett & Joni post w/ my dept. head, the Beckett scholar. Next thing you know she'll be singing Joni songs with me all day. Yes! If l had my way I'd just walk through those doors And wander Down the hallways singing Joni songs and my whole department would be wasting away in Jonimitchellville! (OR, more likely I suppose, someone will report me to the Employee Assistance Program and I'll be up in some sterilized room.) Love, Patti P. NPIMH: Help me, I think I'm falling into JMOCD again...when I get this crazy feeling it's hard to work....I'm in trouble again.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:18:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: ultimate trivia question We had a pretty in-depth discussion about that topic way back when - I think it was Julius who put forth the conjecture that Sam Shepard was the guy, with some good evidence to back him up. If I'm not remembering that correctly, some veteran can chime in and offer up other info. Bob NP: Ani, "32 Flavors" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:22:14 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: ultimate trivia question It was Eminem.> Which would make Joni quite the pedophile since he would have been FOUR at the time. I thought only Catholic Priests liked 'em that young. "Picks up my scent on his fingers...." Ewwwwwwwww! Bob - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:23:30 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: ultimate trivia question IMHO, she never asked his name. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:30:18 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni in the workplace Assuming from your post that it was a vocal version, and seeing that WMNR is a Calssical station, my guess is that it was the Classical tenor Ronan Tynan's version. Not one of my favorites - still, Joni covers on the radio, always a welcome add to any playlist. Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "Highway 25" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 11:51:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: ultimate trivia question - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > It was Eminem.> > > Which would make Joni quite the pedophile since he > would have been FOUR at > the time. I thought only Catholic Priests liked 'em > that young. > > "Picks up my scent on his fingers...." Ewwwwwwwww! > Ewwww is right. i guess the real Coyote is probably about 80 by now. Ewwwwww! Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:32:22 -0700 (PDT) From: MattJones Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #142 Hello all! I am a Graduate Musicology student at The University of Georgia, and I am writing my thesis on Joni! For the summer, I am trying to gather as many articles (of the academic and journalistic sort) on Joni I can. It's pretty easy to get the reviews/ interviews thanks to jmdc, but I am having trouble finding scholarly writing on Joni. If anyone has any leads, that would be great! Thus far, I've only found Whitesell's article on joni's harmonic palate, an article on Woodstock by Camille Paglia (check it out if you haven't seen it, in her book "Break, Blow, Burn" she calls "woodstock" the most important poem since Plath's "Daddy.") and a handfull of others. I am not asking you guys to do my work for me, but if you have any guidance, that'd be fabulous. I am also considering starting a listserv for scholarly writers who study Joni. If anyone's interested in that, let me know. I'll try to have it going by the end of summer. Thanks! Matt Jones Athens, GA rats live on no evil star - --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1"/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 12:48:49 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: Priest lyrics query Hello all, Given my rather spotty past in regards to past relationships and their failures, one of my favorite lines from any Joni song would have to be Priest, where she sings: "Oh now the trials and trumpets scored Or will we pass this test For just as one loves more and more Will one love less and less." I can't for the life of me figure out what is meant by that first line. Of course, I bombed my SAT's on that kind of stuff, y'know when they had you read a paragraph, and they asked: "Now what is the underlying allegory or motif of this passage?" Duh.... I don't know. Of course, they never gave out points for those type of answers, hence my score of about 900 total. I still kick a$$ on Jeopardy, though. Any help? Anyone? Bueller? Thanks in advance, JR - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 17:16:20 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: Joni in the workplace Bob wrote: >Assuming from your post that it was a vocal version, and seeing that WMNR >is a Calssical station, my guess is that it was the Classical tenor Ronan >Tynan's version. Not one of my favorites - still, Joni covers on the >radio, always a welcome add to any playlist. > Here is Stuart's answer: It is our favorite station and by the way has a wonderful folk program thursday nights at 9. Its classical programming is the best on the radio. They once quoted me in of their telethons. It was an opera singer who has an album called "Impossible Dream" (or dreams?) - ----- Is that who you are thinking of, Herr Musik Meister? Peace, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:43:06 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Joni thesis Hi Matt, Haven't you been working on that thesis for awhile? Anyway, your one-stop shop for Joni research is the library on JM.com: http://jonimitchell.com/library/ The latest entry is a thesis about Joni titled "'All Pink and Clean and Full of Wonder?' Gendering 'Joni Mitchell,' 1966-74" I started reading it but couldn't stay with it - I'll try again another time. Good luck with the writing. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Frank's Wild Years" (never could stand that dog...) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain proprietary, business-confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 10:37:06 -0700 From: Dave Blackburn Subject: Re: ultimate trivia question - --- Bob.Muller@Fluor.com wrote: > It was Eminem.> > > Which would make Joni quite the pedophile since he > would have been FOUR at > the time. I thought only Catholic Priests liked 'em > that young. > > "Picks up my scent on his fingers...." Ewwwwwwwww! Well now, let's use our powers of logical deductive reasoning to figure this out properly. Work with me if you will.... "He's got a woman at home, he's got another woman down the hall, he seems to want me anyway..." "Coyote's in the coffee shop, he's staring a hole in his scrambled eggs. He picks up my scent on his fingers while he's watching the waitress's legs" "He pins me in the corner and he won't take 'No!'" That all sounds like.............Bill Clinton..... right age, right profile. But then.......a vexing alternative....... "Privately probing the public rooms and peeking through keyholes of numbered doors" That's more like the aforementioned Catholic priest or.....Jerry Falwell (ewwwwww!) Okay, so we're down to Clinton and Falwell. Since it's more likely that Clinton also prowls the public rooms than Falwell has multiple women all over the place, AND given the fact that Joni has "no regrets" which Falwell would most certainly have caused I guess we can conclude that Coyote is about a liason with Bill Clinton. Now why he was masquerading as a rancher is beyond me, but maybe he could do the accent convincingly...he'll probably reveal all in his next book. I really must stop procrastinating and get back to work now that we've solved this one.... Dave B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 17:37:44 +0000 From: "Patti Parlette" Subject: Re: Joni in the workplace > > >Joni in the workplace....chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, dontcha just love > > it? > > >Revenge will be served cold, my dear. :-) > >-Julius, npimh: > >"Chick-A-Boom (Don't Ya Just Love It)" >Daddy Dewdrop Hey, now don't you threaten ME, you mean old daddy! I'll hip-check you right into the boards at Wollman Rink! Hip-check-a-BOOM! You'll crash into someone's arms! I am not responsible for your earworms or your behavior or anything else. My analyst told me! Laughing it all away, Patti P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:14:29 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in the workplace > >Joni in the workplace....chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, dontcha just love > it? > Arghgggh! I'm gonna get you back for planting this "earworm" on me today, Patti. Please, make it stop!!! I hadn't given this catchy, yet creepy little 'chickaboomboom' ditty a passing thought in decades, now I can't freakin' get it out of my head! (I hate when that happens...). It's like what Phil Lesh said to me recently, after I recounted one of my recent concert sensory experiences to him: "Wow...flashbacks." (heehee.) Revenge will be served cold, my dear. :-) - -Julius, npimh: "Chick-A-Boom (Don't Ya Just Love It)" Daddy Dewdrop Last night I had a crazy dream 'bout a chick in a black bikini, ugh! Ah, she looked so good, she couldn't be real She must be a magic genie! But she disappeared around the corner All I saw were three doors and the top of her bikini I made it through the first door, there was a party goin' on I asked about the chick but what they said was freaky... Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't you just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom-boom-boom I found the bottom part behind the second door Which took me to Africa, I presume This really far-out cat was screamin' half-crazy "Whomp-bobba-looba ba-lomp-bam-boom" I said, "Hey man, cut that jive and tell me where the chick went" But he looked at me, as spaced as could be And said these words but I wonder what he meant... Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't you just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom-boom-boom Ah, don't ya just love it Um hmm, don't ya just love it Don't ya love it, don't ya love it Oh yeah, don't ya love it Don't ya just love it now I opened the third door and there she was And she whispered so sexy and low Ooo! I tried to do the same and impress her with my style But why I said this, I'll never know... Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't you just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom-boom-boom Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't you just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom-boom-boom Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't you just love it Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, don't ya just love it (fade...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 19:17:41 +0100 From: "Jamie's Box of Paints" Subject: Re: A short play As long as I can play the guy who turns up, moves a box, gives a total look of desperation, happines, quietude and feels a tree, then leaves stage left. Joni looks on, gives a quick glance to Picasso who shrugs in a most Hispano-Gallic way and Beckett runs off clutching a branch. Much Zooby Joni On 17/05/06, Catherine McKay wrote: > Brilliant, Victor. We need to stage this at a > Jonifest. > > And, in order to be true to the spirit of Beckett, we > need to make it last three hours. There will be long > periods of people sitting or standing there, some > buried up to their necks and so on. > > --- Victor Johnson wrote: > > > Act I : Joni, Picasso, and Seinfeld sitting on a > > street corner, > > Beckett walks up... > > > > Beckett: What are you doing? > > > > Picasso: Waiting for Godot. > > > > (Beckett looks puzzled) > > > > Picasso: It's a Joni thing...you wouldn't > > understand. > > > > Seinfeld: Not that there's anything wrong with that! > > > > (Joni sneezes) > > > > Seinfeld: You're so good looking! > > > > Joni: Kiss my ass. > > > > > Catherine > Toronto > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > - -- I am a lonely Painter I live in a Box of Paints I'm frightened by the devil But I'm drawn to those ones that 'aint afraid... Jamie Zubairi can be found for voice-overs at http://uk.voicespro.com/jamie.zubairi1 acting CV and showreel at http://uk.castingcallpro.com/u/81749 and on myspace at http://www.myspace.com/jamiezoob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 14:22:54 -0600 From: Kate Subject: The Steel House Just listening to an afternoon show on CBC, interviewing a man who built a steel house in the middle of Victoria, BC's industrial area. He has been having trouble selling it. He said the inspiration came about when he heard Big Yellow Taxi and thought, Why don't I make this parking lot into a paradise? It sounds like a very interesting place, and can be seen at http://www.awesomehouse.com. Kate of the North http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:29:52 -0400 From: "bluejr@adelphia.net" Subject: RE: Priest lyrics query Of course! OK, how about this: 1) The 'trials' refer to the start of a new relationship. 2) Now, I'm no orchestral composer, but what if the final parts of any particular score are the trumpet parts? That would mean that the new relationship is past the 'trials', or 'new' phase and then the accompanying worry or concern at that point (by either side) that they'll be unlucky enough to be the one who 'loves more and more', while worrying that the other person will be the one who 'loves less and less'. I would guess that the test that is trying to be passed is not having the relationship turn out just that way. If that's the case, then it makes perfect sense! (Never thought I'd ever utter these words, but) Thanks Hell! Original Message: - ----------------- From: Hell hell@ihug.co.nz Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:15:49 +1200 To: bluejr@adelphia.net, joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Priest lyrics query The lyrics on www.jonimitchell.com read slightly differently: Now the trials are trumpet scored Oh will we pass the test Or just as one loves more and more Will one love less and less Which has a different meaning (to me, at least) from the words you quoted. I would interpret that as meaning that the "trials" of relationships are "scored" (metaphorically) with trumpet-sounds, ie. she's scoring various aspects or her life (or whoever she's singing about), and these trials are highlighted with trumpet sounds, as opposed to something softer like strings, or piano. The following lines refer to the relationship, ie. as one partner develops deeper feelings, will the other lose feeling? Just my $0.02 worth.... Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:15:49 +1200 From: "Hell" Subject: RE: Priest lyrics query JR wrote: > "Oh now the trials and trumpets scored > Or will we pass this test > For just as one loves more and more > Will one love less and less." > > I can't for the life of me figure out what is meant by that first > line. The lyrics on www.jonimitchell.com read slightly differently: Now the trials are trumpet scored Oh will we pass the test Or just as one loves more and more Will one love less and less Which has a different meaning (to me, at least) from the words you quoted. I would interpret that as meaning that the "trials" of relationships are "scored" (metaphorically) with trumpet-sounds, ie. she's scoring various aspects or her life (or whoever she's singing about), and these trials are highlighted with trumpet sounds, as opposed to something softer like strings, or piano. The following lines refer to the relationship, ie. as one partner develops deeper feelings, will the other lose feeling? Just my $0.02 worth.... Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:47:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Darice Subject: Santa Barbara , beach , lyrics and Coyote And what is wrong with a Bobby Vee song??????? What else would you listen to on the beach???? I had always hoped that Coyote was Peter Coyote, quite the ladies man in the 60's and 70's. Darice emerging from lurkdom to champion Bobby Vee (and other 60's heart- throbs) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 22:44:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #142 - scholarly articles about Joni Hey Matt -- Good to hear you are doing your thesis on Joni and her music. Would love to read your thesis when its done. I read some stuff written about Joni in the past found mostly in book chapters or articles in our library. I have been working on an article with two grad students on music and sometimes in between search my search for a book, I would gravitate towards books about Joni, Dylan, Joan Baez, etc. I am not sure if you are looking for similar stuff that Whitesell has written (harmonic palate of early Joni) or the ones that use some social theory. But in any event, you may want to check out this book by Sheila Whiteley called "Women and Popular Music". She devoted chapters to various female singers (e.g. Tracy Chapman, Annie Lennox, Madonna, etc.) and has a chapter on Joni with something like "Joni, 'Blue' and Female Subjectivity" or some-such title (I dont have that book with me right now). I am amazed at Whiteley's immersion in Joni literature that contextualized Joni's music against her rural beginnings, 'rock and roll' revolution, and radical feminist movements in the 60s. Whiteley draws from the theoretical texts of bell hooks and even Deleuze. I recommend the book (interesting articles too on other artists in the same book especially P.J. Harvey, Spice Girls, Tori Amos). Then there's Stacy Luftig's "The Joni Mitchell Companion: FOur Decades of Commentary" which culls various articles written about Joni as well as interviews (with nice photos). Luftig thanked the List for much of the info that she unearthed for this book. The articles are thematically arranged with chapter titles like "The Seagull from Saskatoon," "Charismatic Siren ...Doom-Laden Seer", etc and the articles included in those chapters were taken from a pool of write-ups written between 1966 to 1998. Nice interviews too. I get a kick reading how certain songs were composed from completely random acts and how people labeled it far far differently from what she actually meant. Also there is Larry David Smith's "Elvis Costello, Joni Mitchell and the Torch Song Tradition" which is even more engaging. For fans of Joni especially those who have been here in the List for a long time or those who read Joni stories in major dailies through the years, some of the things Smith wrote on Joni may seem like old news. But I like the way he insightfully writes about things based on materials previously written and opened up new debates about Joni's legend. He has this appealing way of drawing from various quotes and shape new ways of interpreting it. Also there are a few other books written about Joni that you can use that may be in opposition with other books' claims, but I guess it is exciting to draw out this dialectical tension between texts. Someone in the List asked about a book written by Vego (sp?) on Joni and if I remembered correctly, someone said it was a hodge-podge work. But it might be interesting to look at it as reference too. Our own JMDL member Karen O'Brien has written one on Joni as well. One quick look at amazon.com also revealed one written by Brian Hinton. And oh by the way, if you can come across this book called "Reading Pop" edited by Richard Middleton, there is an exciting chapter called "Three Tributaries of 'The River'" written by Dai Griffiths. Joni was mentioned only once but the song that is focused is Springsteen's "The River". There are Whitesell-like dissection of chords and melody in the said article, but thought you might want to compare this article with Joni's own "River". Anyway, enough said. Goodluck to the thesis (and yeah include my email too in your listserve devoted to Joni articles/write-ups). Joseph in Apple Chill np: The Decemberists "Los Angeles, I'm Yours" MattJones a icrit : Hello all! I am a Graduate Musicology student at The University of Georgia, and I am writing my thesis on Joni! For the summer, I am trying to gather as many articles (of the academic and journalistic sort) on Joni I can. It's pretty easy to get the reviews/ interviews thanks to jmdc, but I am having trouble finding scholarly writing on Joni. If anyone has any leads, that would be great! Thus far, I've only found Whitesell's article on joni's harmonic palate, an article on Woodstock by Camille Paglia (check it out if you haven't seen it, in her book "Break, Blow, Burn" she calls "woodstock" the most important poem since Plath's "Daddy.") and a handfull of others. I am not asking you guys to do my work for me, but if you have any guidance, that'd be fabulous. I am also considering starting a listserv for scholarly writers who study Joni. If anyone's interested in that, let me know. I'll try to have it going by the end of summer. Thanks! Matt Jones Athens, GA rats live on no evil star - --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1"/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. - --------------------------------- Faites de Yahoo! votre page d'accueil sur le web pour retrouver directement vos services prifiris : virifiez vos nouveaux mails, lancez vos recherches et suivez l'actualiti en temps riel. Cliquez ici. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 17:16:42 -0400 From: "Cassy" Subject: Re: Priest lyrics query From: <<< I can't for the life of me figure out what is meant by that first line. Of course, I bombed my SAT's on that kind of stuff, y'know when they had you read a paragraph, and they asked: "Now what is the underlying allegory or motif of this passage?" >>> The actual lyrics for the final verse are: Now the trials are trumpet scored Oh will we pass the test Or just as one loves more and more Will one love less and less Oh come let's run from this ring we're in Where the Christians clap and the Germans grin Saying let them lose, crying let them win Oh make them both confess I have a couple of my own theories as to what this could mean. 1. The trial of Ethel and Julius Rosenburg in 1951 brought media "trumpeting" (loudly publicizing) to the forefront as an agenda to garner support of court charges, particularly for espionage or political events: Eric Alterman, The Nation (29th April, 1996) <<< Here we go again. New York Post editor Eric Breindel, writing in The New Republic and The Wall Street Journal, insists that the recent release by the National Security Agency of an encrypted document sent by a Soviet spy in Washington to his superiors in Moscow on March 30, 1945, constitutes "the smoking gun in the Hiss case," proving "beyond doubt" that Hiss "was still a Soviet agent in 1945." Since I am writing in what Breindel (who has died since this article was written) preemptively calls "America's leading forum for Alger Hiss apologia," one could be forgiven for expecting yet another plea for justice for Hiss. Sorry. I take no position on guilt or innocence (in truth, I still can't make up my mind). Today's lesson deals instead with a disturbing nexus of scholarship, journalism and Cold War fanaticism that, based on either a careless or a deliberately malicious reading of declassified national security documents, threatens our ability ever to make sense of the past half-century of our history. The drill has become a familiar one: Hitherto secret documents or ex-spy confessions, often backed up by a major publishing campaign, reveal that so-and-so was a spy all along. Journalists trumpet the charge, calling on "respected" academics to either endorse or debunk the charges. Depending on the usually predictable political orientation of the academic in question, a person's reputation is either destroyed or merely damaged. The story then goes away until the next batch of documents appears or the next spy gets religion. The latest cycle began back in 1990 with a book co-written by KGB defector Oleg Gordievsky, and Christopher Andrew, a respected British intelligence historian, titled KGB: The Inside Story. Though he did not endorse the charge himself, Gordievsky argued, in Andrew's words, that as a young agent he had been reliably informed by many important Soviet intelligence officials that Harry Hopkins, FDR's most trusted adviser, had been a Soviet "agent of major significance." Time trumpeted the charges in a much-publicized excerpt but, owing to both the unbelievability of the charges and the authors' unwillingness to stand by them, they did not cause much of a stir. Most reviewers were decidedly unimpressed with the work. Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. scored Time for publishing the excerpt and said "the whole Hopkins passage smells of sensationalism on the part of the book's authors." The great military historian Sir Michael Howard noted that nothing in the book was likely to surprise Western intelligence services, though "there is probably much that they know not to be true." The only reputations to suffer significant damage were those of Time and Andrew. (Being a KGB defector, Gordievsky did not have much to lose, reputation-wise.) Recently, it is U.S. intelligence releases that have been making news. After classifying its intercepts as top secret for decades and refusing all scholars' entreaties for access, the National Security Agency called a press conference in July 1995 to announce the release of forty-nine intercepts, dubbed the Venona papers, that dealt with the case of the Rosenbergs. Sanho Tree, a research fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies, had applied for these same documents under the Freedom of Information Act in 1993 but was informed that they were properly classified as top secret. Tree received the documents by Federal Express just hours before the press conference began. Apparently, the NSA decided it would endanger national security if an IPS scholar saw the material before it had a chance to invite favored journalists to a screening, complete with fancy booklets and brochures. This first batch of transcripts convinced many (including me) that Julius Rosenberg was indeed a spy. Even committed Rosenberg partisans Walter and Miriam Shneir were convinced. But Ronald Radosh, transformed from obscure New Left historian to well-funded, right-wing hatchetman during the Reagan era, crowed that the documents proved "the Rosenbergs were not only Communists" but "were recruited right out of the party for Soviet espionage." Radosh, however, only proved once again his ability to read into documents what he wished to believe in the first place. The intercepts did nothing to prove Ethel's espionage involvement or mitigate the accusation that the government executed an innocent woman in a failed attempt to extract a confession from her husband. (Radosh and Joyce Milton, his coauthor of "The Rosenberg File," had contended that "it seems almost certain that (Ethel) acted as an accessory.") Nor did the intercepts prove that Julius operated a spy ring on the order necessary to have carried out the plot for which he was executed, though this may have been the case. >>> Trials being "trumpet scored" could be about whether one could withstand the scrutiny surrounding unpopular actions and the line about the Christians clapping and the germans grinning could thinly reference the shenanigans surrounding the Rosenberg trial... or: 2. A classic French movie "The Trial of Joan of Arc" - 1962 Directed by Robert Bresson contained NO music other than a drum roll at the beginning and a trumpet fanfare introducing Joan's first interrogation. I like to think of our Joan as a fan of Joan of Arc's and/or perhaps a fan of foreign films and can see the "trials are trumpet scored" as bringing to mind a religious interrogation of sorts. Her asking "Will we pass the test" in my way of thinking means if the relationship with a priest came down to close scrutiny would they pass the test and appear to be "above board" regarding their level of intimacy. The line "Make them both confess" seems to be a veiled reference to interrogation and the fact that trumpets are the only music surrounding Joan's interrogation in the film seemed to make sense to me at the time. I am sure there are others who have some sort of theory regarding these lyrics... these are strictly my own thoughts, not sanctioned by any government agency or conspiracy theorists. Warmly and with a bit of tongue in cheek, Cassy NP: Orchestra Square - Gary Zack (yes OUR Gary Zack!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 19:09:21 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Ping Pat Henry Bolland!!! Please contact me!!! Your email addy on the JMDL site doesn't work.... sorry for the bandwidth.... thanks, Rosie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 19:04:11 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in the workplace Way to stand up for your rights, Patti Parlette! And a nice bit of analysis of your own, I might add . I'm going back to blaming God for this sort of thing. I hope She can take it as well as She dishes it out. - -Julius Now looking at the framed photo of Wollman Rink in NYC's Central Park beside me, acquired when I visited there during the recent NY JoniFest. It's a favorite. I've got a photo fo the "Poet's Walk" there, too. Nice. Thanks for the memories. Patti writes: > Hey, now don't you threaten ME, you mean old daddy! I'll hip-check you > right into the boards at Wollman Rink! Hip-check-a-BOOM! You'll crash into > someone's arms! > > I am not responsible for your earworms or your behavior or anything else. > My analyst told me! > > Laughing it all away, > > Patti P. > > >Revenge will be served cold, my dear. :-) > > > >-Julius, npimh: ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 18:25:10 -0700 From: "Mark Scott" Subject: Re: Priest lyrics query For what it's worth (which ain't much these days), I'm going to throw something into this 'ring we're in'. Mostly because this verse of this song has always puzzled me. The lines that follow the lines that jr quoted are: 'Oh come let's run from this ring we're in Where the Christians clap and the Germans grin' To me this suggests the Roman coliseum in the days of the Roman Empire. It sounds like somebody is being thrown to the lions or maybe forced as gladiators to fight to the death. That would certainly be a 'trumpet scored' event or trial, if you will. As to what she meant by it and how the Germans come into it, I'm dashed if I know! If 'the priest' is Leonard Cohen, and I think there is some evidence to suggest that might be the case, then mixing up sex, love, hate, death, religion, confession, guilt, redemption, self denial, with a possible reference to martyrs & so forth would be entirely appropriate to the song. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: RE: Priest lyrics query > Of course! OK, how about this: > 1) The 'trials' refer to the start of a new relationship. > 2) Now, I'm no orchestral composer, but what if the final parts of any > particular score are the trumpet parts? That would mean that the new > relationship is past the 'trials', or 'new' phase and then the > accompanying > worry or concern at that point (by either side) that they'll be unlucky > enough to be the one who 'loves more and more', while worrying that the > other person will be the one who 'loves less and less'. I would guess > that > the test that is trying to be passed is not having the relationship turn > out just that way. > If that's the case, then it makes perfect sense! > (Never thought I'd ever utter these words, but) Thanks Hell! > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Hell hell@ihug.co.nz > Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 08:15:49 +1200 > To: bluejr@adelphia.net, joni@smoe.org > Subject: RE: Priest lyrics query > > The lyrics on www.jonimitchell.com read slightly differently: > > Now the trials are trumpet scored > Oh will we pass the test > Or just as one loves more and more > Will one love less and less > > Which has a different meaning (to me, at least) from the words you quoted. > I would interpret that as meaning that the "trials" of relationships are > "scored" (metaphorically) with trumpet-sounds, ie. she's scoring various > aspects or her life (or whoever she's singing about), and these trials are > highlighted with trumpet sounds, as opposed to something softer like > strings, or piano. The following lines refer to the relationship, ie. as > one partner develops deeper feelings, will the other lose feeling? > > Just my $0.02 worth.... > > > Hell > ___________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be > great audiences too." - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a WHOLE NEW EXPERIENCE! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2006 #143 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)