From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #344 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, December 6 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 344 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Diana Krall's cover of Black Crow - Live [Jim Ayson ] 'River' & candour [Karen Marie Espeland ] Re: Diana Krall's cover of Black Crow - Live [Bob Muller ] Re: 'River' & candour [Smurf ] Re: Diana Krall's cover of Black Crow - Live [Jim Ayson ] Three things and other thoughts [Peep Richman ] Re: "Only Love Can Break Your Heart" [Les Irvin ] RE: chuck Mangione ["Bree Mcdonough" ] re: Joni colors ["c Karma" ] re: impact of "lovely" LA on Joni ["c Karma" ] Les' tricks up the lyrics page ["Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" ] Re: Les' tricks up the lyrics page [Bob Muller ] Re: Tori Does Circle Game [Bob Muller ] Les' tricks up the lyrics page ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Les' tricks up the lyrics page [Bob Muller ] Re: It Stays Pretty Green ["Mark Scott" ] Vintage Dawntreader Video Game ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: It Stays Pretty Green [Joseph Palis ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 16:30:34 +0800 From: Jim Ayson Subject: Diana Krall's cover of Black Crow - Live Soeaking of cover versions,... Here is Diana Krall's live version of Joni Mitchell's "Black Crow". Diana's performance here is from a concert DVD recorded live at the Montreal Jazz Festival and is not available on any CD. Here's the link: http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0M8L6JGRX4G281LI6WFFJHY9CI - - jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:52:31 +0100 From: Karen Marie Espeland Subject: 'River' & candour Hi! I still wonder whether 'He loved me so naughty/Made me weak in the knees' was considered promiscuous in 1971. Unfortunately, I wasn't born back then, so, maybe some of you, who were alive and kicking then, can tell me if it was "shocking" at the time to be so sexually frank (for a woman) in song-lyrics? Candour and authenticity were ideals for songwriters at the time - but was such a phrase still surprising 35 years ago? All the best, Karen Marie npimh: "Naughty Girls Need Love Too", Samantha Fox ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 03:21:13 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Diana Krall's cover of Black Crow - Live Hi Jim, Hey, thanks a ton for doing that - I was aware of this live version, and even came real close to picking up this DVD to get it and add to the collection but I held off. Diana's really great, but if this DVD is similar to her Paris DVD, she suffers from a total lack of charisma/stage presence. Bob NP: Diana Krall, "Black Crow" (live) Happy Monday everybody! - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals Skip the bars and set-ups and start using Yahoo! Personals for free ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 03:28:16 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: 'River' & candour Maybe the women in the audience are better able to answer, Karen - but after the late 60's, what with see-through blouses, an increase in sexuality in films, books, etc, and the youth culture itself (free love, skinny dipping at Woodstock, etc), I don't think that this lyric of Joni's in 1971 raised a lot of eyebrows. I didn't hear Blue when it came out - it was many years later. Maybe someone who heard it when it first came out would have a different response. While it was VERY powerful and groundbreaking as an album, I just don't have any recall that these specific lyrics made any parents hold Joni record-burnings in their local church parking lots. Bob NP: Graham Parker, "The Madness of Love" - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 04:41:14 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: 'River' & candour - --- Karen Marie Espeland: > I still wonder whether 'He loved me so naughty/Made > me weak in the > knees' was considered promiscuous in 1971. > Unfortunately, I wasn't > born back then, so, maybe some of you, who were > alive and kicking > then, can tell me if it was "shocking" at the time > to be so sexually > frank (for a woman) in song-lyrics? 'Promiscuous' isn't the right word because that would have meant singing "THEY loved me so naughty, THEY made me weak in the knees." I don't think 'shocking' is the word, either. Maybe 'risque' is closer to what people might have thought about those words in '71. The phrase "weak in the knees" is often used to describe romantic or sexual attraction, but Joni was the first one I ever heard pair that phrase with being loved 'naughty'. - --Smurf __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL  Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 21:38:46 +0800 From: Jim Ayson Subject: Re: Diana Krall's cover of Black Crow - Live On 12/5/05, Bob Muller wrote: > Diana's really great, but if this DVD is similar to her Paris DVD, she > suffers from a total lack of charisma/stage presence. Hmmm - she's hardly a Beyonce, but she does play a mean jazz piano. That should be enough for some people :-) - - jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 14:12:29 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Tori Does Circle Game ...has it been reported here that Tori Amos does Circle Game on her about-to-be-released Official Live Bootleg Uber-compilation? Maybe this is old news but it's new news to me. Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 07:05:31 -0800 (PST) From: Peep Richman Subject: Three things and other thoughts Hey all, For Marrianne....it's a shame it doesn't happen more consistently, but this is the time of year many people are more likely to contribute to a charity; I'd like to think that many more people are experiencing happy times with family and friends than those who aren't; that every psychotherapist (myself sooo included) gets through the season helping people ENOUGH so there aren't any suicides. Has anyone heard Anna Malik's "Wreck of the Day"? What do you think of her???? I'd love to see the Direct TV piece with Bonnie Raitt...do you happen to know if cable has it? I've looked at life from both sides now..... Bo - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals Let fate take it's course directly to your email. See who's waiting for you Yahoo! Personals ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 10:17:00 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: "Only Love Can Break Your Heart" On 12/3/05, JoniPD wrote: > > http://www.bad-news-beat.org/article.php?sid=1201 Thanks for this link, Emiliano. After a bit of research, I found a much larger excerpt of this - which is from a book called "Hotel California" by Barney Hoskins. The excerpt mainly focuses on David Geffen, but it's a great read and has quite a bit of Joni content as well. http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1373 Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 13:02:22 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: chuck Mangione I'm not familiar with Ester Satterfield. I remember seeing Chuck Mangione on a lot of entertainment shows..Merv Griffin comes to mind ..in the 70's. He reminded me of Paul Williams with a beard. He's very personable. Yeah..I'll check them out if I see they are playing around here. I hope all's well for you in Dayton....Lama. Bree >(Bree, did you ever see Ester Satterfield or Chuck Mangione in >Rain-chester, >NY? It's a long way from Joni but lots of his stuff was okay in my book.) > >All the best, >Jim > >_________________________________________________________________ >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! >http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 18:33:44 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Joni colors My two favorites, probably polar opposites: EXXON BLUE and RADIATION ROSE. CC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:10:27 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: impact of "lovely" LA on Joni LA has served Joni well in a few ways. She likes warm weather. Her real estate has proven a good investment. She has stayed close-by and in the same time zone as many of her business deals. She has gone to some pretty hot parties and kept tight with other contemporary musicians. I privately have been rooting for her to flip LA the bird on her way to Vancouver or Toronto and not look back. There's a portion of "Paprika Plains" where she returns to her lover back inside the club. He's drunk and drugged. I've always thought that rather than indicate whirling circles on the dancefloor, the music that followed Guerin's explosive drum thunder was a score following her various modes of transport to an open space she called her own a million light years from Nucleus Nuance, the LA club that might have been depicted. In the visual that plays through my mind, the last frame of film looks a lot like the scene right before the Intermission in "Gone With The Wind." A shade of Scarlet, conquering. CC "I'm gonna make a lot of money then I'm gonna quit this crazy scene." -- JM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:07:53 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Les' tricks up the lyrics page Has anyone else noticed the lyric page for "The Last Time I Saw Richard", lately? The boss silently put up something cool. http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/song.cfm?id=TheLastTimeISawRichard Joni spelled coffee pot "perculator", exactly as she pronounced it. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:10:37 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" Subject: Re: It Stays Pretty Green Okay, that would be me. I was full of hot air when I said she meant both. I agree with (Kate in SK?) who thought Joni was speaking loosely, colloquially. The line before it tips her hand b/c she's not using proper grammar. >>>It don't snow here>>> >>>It stays pretty green>>> Ya know, the flowery phase was over: >>>Varnished weeds in window jars>>> >>>Tarnished beads on tapestries>>> She was shaking the literary dust off around that time. >>>Win your medals>>> >>>Push your papers>>> Repentant but not apologetic, Jim L'Hommedieu Mark in Seattle said in part, >I'm always a little bit suspicious when people start talking about an artist's intentions regarding the meaning of their work although I have learned over my years as a JMDLer not to put hard and fast interpretations on Joni's lyrics. People start to talk about layers of meaning and the intentional use of a word of phrase to imply more than one thing and I have to wonder if the artist truly thought about that when they wrote or painted the piece or if it's just what the listener or viewer projects into it.> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 16:50:34 -0600 From: "Michael Flaherty" Subject: Re: It Stays Pretty Green > Mark in Seattle said in part, >>I'm always a little bit suspicious when people start >>talking about an > artist's intentions regarding the meaning of their work >although I have > learned over my years as a JMDLer not to put hard and >fast interpretations > on Joni's lyrics. People start to talk about layers of >meaning and the > intentional use of a word of phrase to imply more than >one thing and I have > to wonder if the artist truly thought about that when >they wrote or painted > the piece or if it's just what the listener or viewer >projects into it.> For my money, it's just about as interesting--sometimes more so--to hear what other listeners think. To me there is Joni's meaning, and the listener's meaning. Granted Joni's meaning is of interest to a larger number of people than each individual listener's, but those individual interpretations just add to the richness of the piece. I mean, when I listen to For the Roses, I don't think about James Taylor or Graham Nash, I think about what the lyrics mean to me. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:26:19 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Les' tricks up the lyrics page Way cool, Jim (and Les). Thanks for that. Bob NP: The Smiths, "Ask" "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" wrote: Has anyone else noticed the lyric page for "The Last Time I Saw Richard", lately? The boss silently put up something cool. http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/song.cfm?id=TheLastTimeISawRichard Joni spelled coffee pot "perculator", exactly as she pronounced it. Jim L'Hommedieu - --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:40:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Tori Does Circle Game No, but she did release this show earlier this year by itself. This time 'round it's part of a 12-CD box set. Trying to beat the bootleggers, no doubt. Bob NP: Joni, "Judgement of the Moon & Stars" "Ross, Les" wrote: ...has it been reported here that Tori Amos does Circle Game on her about-to-be-released Official Live Bootleg Uber-compilation? Maybe this is old news but it's new news to me. Les (London) - --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 19:21:49 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Les' tricks up the lyrics page And don't forget to read my amusing annotations. Richard (who hasn't really changed . . .the house lights are left up bright!) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bob Muller Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 6:26 PM To: Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama; JMDL Subject: Re: Les' tricks up the lyrics page Way cool, Jim (and Les). Thanks for that. Bob NP: The Smiths, "Ask" "Jim L'Hommedieu, Lama" wrote: Has anyone else noticed the lyric page for "The Last Time I Saw Richard", lately? The boss silently put up something cool. http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/song.cfm?id=TheLastTimeISawRichard Joni spelled coffee pot "perculator", exactly as she pronounced it. Jim L'Hommedieu - --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 17:33:45 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Les' tricks up the lyrics page Subject: Re: It Stays Pretty Green - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Flaherty" > For my money, it's just about as interesting--sometimes more so--to hear > what other listeners think. To me there is Joni's meaning, and the > listener's meaning. Granted Joni's meaning is of interest to a larger > number of people than each individual listener's, but those individual > interpretations just add to the richness of the piece. > > I mean, when I listen to For the Roses, I don't think about James Taylor > or Graham Nash, I think about what the lyrics mean to me. You would get no argument from me, Michael. Other people's interpretations often make me look at a lyric in a new way. I don't think about James or Graham when I listen to 'For the Roses' either (well maybe a little about James). I don't think anybody can say for sure what Joni was thinking of when she wrote a song except of course for Joni herself. But it sure is fun to speculate about and always interesting to find out what other people think. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:23:26 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Vintage Dawntreader Video Game I was researching Ebay to get some idea if I could fetch anything for an old vintage apple computer, and I came across this vintage Dawntreader video game (based on the C.S. Lewis story): http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-Apple-II-Commodore-64-Computer-Game-System-Narnia_W0QQitemZ8733571036QQcategoryZ80286QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem "You are at the helm of the good ship Dawn Treader in an ocean full of hazards. You must survive encounters with storms, hurricanes and sea serpents to reach the islands on which you'll thrill to adventure with a dragon, invisible one legged creatures and other surprises. Your voyage to Aslan's country and World's End will be filled with sub-adventures in which you'll use adventure cards and dice." I thought I heard somewhere that C.S. Lewis did not want his stories to be on the big screen. I wonder how he would feel about video games? This game kinda looks like PacMan, but I suppose alot of those old games are similar. Fun to look at though, for the nostalgia. Mia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 06:23:53 +0100 (CET) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: It Stays Pretty Green Interesting discussion. My first reaction (knee-jerk, gut) when I hear a Joni song is re-imagining what she means by the texts she is singing about. I would say that I probably want to get to the heart of a song the way it was intended (although one can argue how do I know that my reading of it is THE way it was intended by Joni?). Say, in "Edith and the Kingpin", the lyrics are (for me) like camera snapshots that describe fleeting moments and part of the challenge is thinking what Joni means in each line, each musical cadence, each shifting subject positions. Then you (I actually) start thinking about what those lyrics mean to me on a personal level although frankly I was never aware that I consciously asked myself if this song speaks to me. It seems to locate itself in you. Sometimes, too, meanings on a personal level can be subject to negotiations which means that it can even yield another layer of meaning that we haven't reflected before. Like "Banquet" and the mystery she brings to the lyrics: I ask myself -- was it about food security? burglars breaking in houses? conjuring Medieval-like scenarios to condemn modernist consumerism? or about people not getting what is rightfully theirs in life because of inequality?) Good thing that Joni's lyrics lend themselves well to constant re-reading and re-authoring. In a song like "Morning Morgantown", I must have very different visceral reactions to it when I listen to it depending on which location I am, than the initial tactile impression I had of that song. It takes a different meaning when I listen to it -- different from when I am in Chapel Hill or when I was in Manila when I heard it first or Mainz when I heard it continuously for days. It is always great to read what others have to say about a song's intentionality and what it meant to them because whether I like it or not, these meanings from others form a part in my appreciation of that song through its re-investigation. Joseph in Chapel Hill np: Abbey Lincoln -- "When the Lights Go On Again All Over The World" Mark Scott a icrit : ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Flaherty" > For my money, it's just about as interesting--sometimes more so--to hear > what other listeners think. To me there is Joni's meaning, and the > listener's meaning. Granted Joni's meaning is of interest to a larger > number of people than each individual listener's, but those individual > interpretations just add to the richness of the piece. > > I mean, when I listen to For the Roses, I don't think about James Taylor > or Graham Nash, I think about what the lyrics mean to me. You would get no argument from me, Michael. Other people's interpretations often make me look at a lyric in a new way. I don't think about James or Graham when I listen to 'For the Roses' either (well maybe a little about James). I don't think anybody can say for sure what Joni was thinking of when she wrote a song except of course for Joni herself. But it sure is fun to speculate about and always interesting to find out what other people think. Mark E. in Seattle - --------------------------------- Appel audio GRATUIT partout dans le monde avec le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger Tilichargez le ici ! ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #344 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)