From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #268 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, September 20 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 268 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- jmdl etiquette? ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: jmdl etiquette? ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: joni and sports ["mike pritchard" ] Re: How tall is Joni [John Calimee ] Re: 'A Case of You' and Joni Mitchell's romantic liaisons [Karen Marie Es] Re :how tall is Joni ? ["SUSAN BARGH" ] Trivia Question: How is the Imax film "The living sea" connected to Joni??? ["anon anon" ] Re: 'A Case of You' and Joni Mitchell's romantic liaisons/ How tall is Joni? [Warrenkeith91354@ao] Jonifest pictures ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Trivia Question: How is the Imax film "The living sea" connected to Joni??? [Bob Muller ] Re: D&B recommendations... ["Lance A. Michel" ] Joni at the Hague (27 April 1983) for free!! [Brian Gross Subject: jmdl etiquette? Gosh no Jeff! (At least not in my mind) One thing I love about this list is the freedom to speak honestly about Joni and her music (or whatever else she may be doing). People that wish she would perform again are up here. People who just appreciate her legacy and could care less if she ever sang again are up here and each speak their mind. The differing viewpoints are very refreshing in my opinion so please don't think there are "taboo" subjects when it comes to Joni. I think she would appreciate our fresh and lively discussions about her. That's just my opinion though. Take care! Sherelle Jeff wrote: Hi to everyone. I've shot my mouth off on a few subjects within the last couple of weeks, so I'll probably go quiet again soon. As a old kind of newbie, and as a long-time lurker coming out of the cold... it's a bit unsettling. Like - ever been to a party where everyone goes very quiet after you just said something, even though you were just making some small talk hoping to kind of find your way in...? Hmmm? So - is there any kind of etiquette going on here that one ought to familiarize oneself with? - like 'whoah - stay off that subject. We don't mention that here. We don't talk about those aspects of Joni's work..' or maybe even 'o no, not that ol chestnut again - we've done that topic to death..yawn' Just asking. jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:35:21 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: jmdl etiquette? Oops! I forgot about that!!! Very funny Jamie! Sherelle Jamie wrote: Hi Jeff Yes. We don't mention the perm. Much Joni Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:15:26 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: joni and sports is it teaching if the students do not learn? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Zubairi" To: "mike pritchard" ; "list" Cc: "Jamie Zubairi" Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 11:47 PM Subject: Re: joni and sports > Now here's me thinking you taught... ;-b > > > --- mike pritchard wrote: > > > >>Jeez, I forgot you were a pedagogue!!!<< > > > > I'm not a pedagogue, just pedantic. > > > > mike in barcelona, who looks forward to Jamie's > > advice on dnb. > > np Jorge Drexler (excellent Spanish-language > > singer-songwriter) > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 01:30:36 -0500 From: John Calimee Subject: Re: How tall is Joni Hi Jamie, Congrats to you and everyone for pulling off a wonderful JoniFest in France. (I've missed them all. Every one. Boo hoo, boo hoo.) Anyway, if you remember Richard and I joining you for dinner in that asian resteraunt....... Rich, the tall, interesting handsome one. And me, the bore? You know how tall she is because (today, anyway), she's exactly my height. I looked her eye to eye back in Saskatoon. I'm 5'7. Of course, time has a way of bending bones and shrinking stature so I'm sure she's lost an inch or two from her youthful days. Standing next to her, looking her eye to eye, I couldn't help wonder how god packed sooooo much genius into such a small package. j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:19:10 +0200 From: Karen Marie Espeland Subject: Re: 'A Case of You' and Joni Mitchell's romantic liaisons Thank you very much, Jamie! I found your comments very useful and interesting to read! I particularly liked what you write about 'emotional truth' - is that something she says in one of her interviews? (Where does she write about 'A Case of You'?) I never quite figured out the 'I met a woman'-part of the song - so it may be Taylor's sister, then... (By the way, I must have missed out on James Taylor's biology - can you fill me in?) I don't actually need biographical details when listening to Joni Mitchell for my own sake - but I feel as if I need some input ('facts') on her life to get some support for my interpretations. One of the things that makes her music so interesting to me is how her songs affect me. What makes music strike against your very nerves? This question is a bit hard to examine in a thesis - but I will give it a try! Thank you for your positive and brisk reply to my questions! I will certainly let you know if I have other questions concerning Ms Mitchell - thanks! :) Good luck on your tour! All the best, Karen Marie On 9/18/05, Jamie Zubairi wrote: > > Hi Karen Marie, > > I love the fact that you've chosen to write your > thesis on Joni Mitchell. A Case of You is a beautiful > song and a brilliant song to write a thesis on love > on. Good luck with it! > > It has been suggested also that it's James Taylor... > someone mentioned on list that Joni was referring to > his sister (not sure what her name is) when 'she met a > woman who had a mouth like yours'. > > The most important thing that Joni wrote about this > song, and her music in general, was that it's probably > a composite portrait (see Carly Simon 'You're So > Vain') and it's the emotional truth that is more > important than the biographical details. (I was going > to say 'biological' but we ALL know aout James > Taylor's biological details! ;-)) > > I think that the Leonard Cohen liaison was probably > earlier in the 60's during Newport Festival. It has > been suggested that 'Rainy Night House' from 1969 is > about Leonard Cohen but I can't remember why... > > Good luck with your thesis! > > It's probably best to mention that Joni Mitchell > writes songs for everyone. This song about a moment > prior tp the break-up of a relationship, was about the > effect your lover has on you, how they change the way > you think and perceive the world. Her major concern > for her 'audience' wasn't 'who is this song about' as > this makes the song limiting to an era, not the > timeless and universal feelings that everyone goes > though in life, which makes the songs lasting. > > Yes, she probably wrote it about someone specific but > the feelings that were evoked in her about this person > probably awoke more hidden feelings in her about > previous relationships so she could refer to those > feelings and moments in this song to enable to heal > herself, and hopefully other people. Yes, it's rather > strange for someone to say 'I am as constant as a > Northern Star' so that would make that line specific > to someone but the line, as you correctly put, is from > Shakespeare. Her mother quoted Shakespeare to her (and > not The Bible), I'm sure Leonard Cohen (I could be > wrong, I don't know his work) is more likely to quote > from the Torah or Camus or Lorca (see > http://www.jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1296&ss=leonard%20cohen > > > As it is Shakepeare, it might be Nash as Shakespeare > is studied British schools as part of the curriculum > but this is just pure conjecture. > > There are few songs that you can pin-point specific > people on Joni and she tends ot name them: Her Mama, > her Papa, Donald Freed, There are LOTS you can > speculate on. Or maybe that's just my view as I don't > want to think about the songs in a biographical way > about her life. I know I love Joni's music and > writing for the way they reverberate through the > experiences and feelings in my life or that of people > I'm close to. She perhaps wrote songs about people but > I think the songs are 'obscured' enough to make them > universal for all of us to connect with, and not just > go 'Oh this song is only about Joni Mitchell's life, > nothing to do with me... > > Anyway... I hope some of this is useful to you and I > hope it doesn't come across as didactic or > condescending. > > All the best with it. Much Joni > > Jamie Zoob > > ps. If you would like to ask me any further questions > on Ms Mitchell, I would be happy to wax away. > Unfortunately I will be 'off-list' for the next few > weeks perhaps months as I am on tour but I will be > checking emails sporadically. > > > > --- Karen Marie Espeland wrote: > > > Hello! > > I am a post-graduate student at University of Oslo, > > Norway, and I am > > working on a thesis on the analysis of pop music. I > > have chosen to focus on > > Joni Mitchell and analyse some of her songs, one of > > them 'A Case of You'. > > Does anyone on the JMDL know who she refers to in > > the song? (Who is 'you'?) > > Perhaps it could have been Graham Nash, as she lived > > with him for a period > > of time before going on her journey in Europe? It > > has also been suggested > > that the man in the song is Leonard Cohen, as the > > words 'I am as constant as > > a Northern Star' (actually a quote from Shakespear's > > Julius Caesar) is not > > likely to be a phrase pronounced by Nash. Does > > anyone know when, and for how > > long, Joni Mitchell dated Leonard Cohen? I would be > > interested in knowing > > more about Joni's relationships before her > > Blue-period. It is interesting to > > find out how her personal life corresponds with her > > songs! > > All the best, > > Karen Marie, > > Oslo > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:15:34 +0100 From: "SUSAN BARGH" Subject: Re :how tall is Joni ? Hello , As Joni apparently found employment as a wholesale fashion model , (Shadows & Light page 31) I would guess she was 5` 7" minimum. If any JMDLer in the UK lives in the North West England/ North Wales ,Wirral area & fancies getting together for a pint or two, chat & some Joni singing ,please get in touch. Regards Sue. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 01:47:38 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: Trivia Question: How is the Imax film "The living sea" connected to Joni??? Does anyone know? and no, it is not Sting... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:45:39 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: jmdl etiquette and how tall is joni? Bib N wrote: See? Now THERE'S the kind of response I'm talking about Yeah, Bob. No denying you slut (ah music slut that is LOL) status. As for Joni's height, hmmm... Eric Andersen is about 6 feet tall - maybe an inch or so more. So, based on the photo, I'd say Joni is about 5 feet 6 inches. BUT a friend of mine (who is also tall) was at a party with her and commented on how short he thought she was - he said shorter than me and I'm 5 feet 5 inches. How odd that we don't know this. Muller, you met her - do you remember? lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:47:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: 'A Case of You' and Joni Mitchell's romantic liaisons - --- Karen Marie asks (among many other good questions): > One of the things that makes her > music so interesting to me is how her songs affect me. What makes music > strike against your very nerves? This question is a bit hard to examine in a > thesis - but I will give it a try! I believe that we (JMDLers) resonate at the same frequency as Joni. The emotional and physical reactions we have (tears, stopping whatever else we happen to be doing, being transported (if only in mind) to other times and places) to things like the opening couple of piano notes of "Court and Spark" are best explained, imho, as sympathetic resonance. She touches our souls. Deeply. Good luck with your thesis! The jmdl.com library is a treasure trove of information at your disposal. Take care everyone. Brian in south jersey, with the mind-picture of a flower pushing its way through the rubble of our lives reaching for the sun. I've looked at love from both sides now From give and take, and still somehow It's love's illusions I recall I really don't know love at all --Joan, with the wisdom of the ages Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:10:21 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: A Case of You' and Joni Mitchell's romantic liaisons Hi Karen Marie, and welcome to the JMDL! I've always had a hunch that A Case of You was about three different guys, each verse assigned to a different man. Kinda like what David Crosby did with Guinnivere (but with three different women). I would speculate that the first verse is about Leonard Cohen (with all the references to Shakespeare and Canada): "Just before our love got lost you said 'I am as constant as a northern star' And I said 'Constantly in the darkness Where's that at? If you want me I'll be in the bar' On the back of a cartoon coaster In the blue TV screen light I drew a map of Canada Oh Canada With your face sketched on it twice" The second verse, I would guess, is about Graham Nash (who was deeply in love with Joni and I can hear him saying "love is touching souls" -- he also seemed like he played the role of grand protector, perhaps a bit smothering for Joni): "Oh I am a lonely painter I live in a box of paints I'm frightened by the devil And I'm drawn to those ones that ain't afraid I remember that time you told me you said "Love is touching souls" Surely you touched mine 'Cause part of you pours out of me In these lines from time to time" And the third verse might be about James Taylor (with poss. references to his sister's mouth and all the baggage he carried - drugs, etc.): "I met a woman She had a mouth like yours She knew your life She knew your devils and your deeds And she said 'Go to him, stay with him if you can But be prepared to bleed'" I think it would be hard to pin the whole song on James Taylor as Joni did not have much of a history with James -- this song was just newly written about the same time they were seeing each other. Plus James played accompaniment on ACOY, which would seem strange if Joni was lamenting over only James. Additionally, verse two seems to point out somebody she has been with for a long time, someone who has rubbed off on her - more like Graham (part of you, pours out of me..in these lines from time to time). So, I think all these men are in her blood like holy wine. But I have no proof, and this probably doesn't help your thesis at all, yet it is still fun to discuss. Mia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:16:11 +0200 From: Karen Marie Espeland Subject: Re: 'A Case of You' and Joni Mitchell's romantic liaisons Thank you, Lori! I will check out the article - thanks! :) Karen Marie On 9/19/05, Lori Fye wrote: > > Hi Karen Marie! Welcome and good luck with your thesis! > > Jamie pointed you to an article in the JMDL Library. It's a treasure trove > of information. Be sure to check it out! > > Jamie also wrote: > > > It has been suggested also that it's James Taylor... > > someone mentioned on list that Joni was referring to > > his sister (not sure what her name is) when 'she met a > > woman who had a mouth like yours'. > > Unless James has (had?) more than one sister, it would be Kate Taylor. I > used to own an album she recorded. She definitely resembled James. > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:23:23 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: How tall is Joni? I happen to own one of Joni's outfits which is a suede jacket, shorts and purse (all signed), which by the looks of it is late 60's or early 70's. Several petite and slim women between 5' and 5'6" tried it on and they could barely fit inside. Unfortunately when I met Joni she was sitting down so can't say for sure. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:11:48 EDT From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: Re: 'A Case of You' and Joni Mitchell's romantic liaisons/ How tall is Joni? Hello all and welcome Karen Marie! James' sister's name is Kate, I've got one of her albums in my closet but I haven't the strength to drag it out.( As I recall the album was titled "Sister Kate.") I also wanted to chime in on Joni's height. I meet her in 1973 .I had the good fortune of being up close and personal twice that evening; once before the concert when I gave her roses, and she gave me a kiss; and again after an unforgettable evening of Joni, when she gave me one of my roses back! I remember having to lean down a bit when she kissed me, I was 18 at the time...about 5'8" tall then, Joni was shorter than me. I would guesstimate she was no taller than 5'6', maybe even a bit shorter. I was taken aback by her stature, but I think everyone always imagines their idols to be tall. I'll second Patti's "soft skin", I remember it to be incredible so. Most of all I remember thinking that I had not seen a photo that did her justice, she was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen. She made me weak in the knees...that's for you Patti. Jonily yours, Warren Keith Humphrey P. S. I believe I just de-lurked!?!?! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:00:14 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Jonifest pictures Hi All Just uploaded my pix to Chris' site. Sorry I couldn't find how to put captions yet (Chris please help). I added a few pix from a < sculptural path > near Lagrasse. Hope this will make more people want to visit or return to the area. Laurent Go to : http://www.hatstand.org/gallery/v/JoniMitchell/jonifest2005/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:41:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: Trivia Question: How is the Imax film "The living sea" connected to Joni??? Both won major awards in 1995, Joni took home a Grammy for TI, and TLS won an Oscar for best Short Subject Documentary. I'm sure this was NOT what you had in mind but as I'm the only contestant I hereby declare myself the winner. Bob NP: Emmylou Harris, "Plaisir d"Amour" anon anon wrote: Does anyone know? and no, it is not Sting... Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Muller Subject: Re: jmdl etiquette and how tall is joni? Subject: More on "How tall is Joni"? >Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:12:38 +0100 (BST) >From: Jamie Zubairi >Subject: Re: How tall is Joni? >Sorry, I'm still convinced she's not that tall... I >mean in this picture, her shoes are definitely 'built >up'. ;-) >Someone on the list that has seen her was really >surprised that she was really small... Please who are >you? Well, let's rmember that Joni doesn't wear "heels" any more because of a foot problem (remember her radio interview on "Fresh Air" last fall?). When I saw her in '98, I believe she was wearing flat or modest heels (definitely not high heels, she was wearing jeans and in a very casual mode), and my recollection says she is no less than 5'7". Bryan - --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:23:35 -0400 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re: D&B recommendations... There are many many good D&B artists out there... A few I would mention are: **Divination **Almamagretta **Makyo **Cypher **Scarab **O.H.M **Massive Attack **Corporal Blossom - --And much more...Especially a 'new' cross-breed of North African Rai music w/D&B....I have many more recommendations if you would like...Just let me know...I am more than happy to help...:-) Happy Exploring...!! :-) Peas...Sir Lance - --There are as many shades to reality, as there are windows unto the soul-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:42:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Joni at the Hague (27 April 1983) for free!! Thanks to the legendary and ongoing generosity of John van Tiel, I was lucky enough to be selected to receive a copy of this rare recording. I'd like to 'pay-it-forward' and make it a bit less rare among my fellow JMDLers by making 10 copies and sending them to 10 North Americans (to keep postage expense down) who want a cd copy. Just write me off-list. Thank you Uncle John, and thank you, everyone else, for allowing me to share this show with you. take care, Brian in south jersey nw: Saints-Giants game as part of NFL Hurricane Relief Weekend I've looked at love from both sides now From give and take, and still somehow It's love's illusions I recall I really don't know love at all --Joan, with the wisdom of the ages Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:42:26 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: How tall is Joni? Laurent wrote: > I happen to own one of Joni's outfits which is a suede jacket, shorts and > purse (all signed), which by the looks of it is late 60's or early 70's. > Several petite and slim women between 5' and 5'6" tried it on and they could > barely fit inside. > Unfortunately when I met Joni she was sitting down so can't say for sure. > Coyote Rick has one of Joni's jackets that she did some artwork on, and signed. He has it framed, but it sure looks like a jacket that only a very petite woman could wear. Of course jackets are one thing and seeing Joni a few times, she does have a petite torso. I'd have to agree with some of the other posts though. When I said hi to her at the Toronto Homage, she looked about 5' 7". I think she has long legs. It's strange talking about Joni's height. We've never discussed it before. At least we're not talking about if the carpet matches the drapes :) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:00:05 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: jmdl etiquette and how tall is joni? If this isn't the cutest picture .....beaming comes to mind... Love it!! Bree >Oh, you say you want to see the photo? Why certainly, I've never looked >better: > >http://s65.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=18LJP7FK0C68K0KNDT8ZOR6LIC > > >Bob > >NP: Crowded House, "Kare Kare" >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #268 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)