From: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #257 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, September 9 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 257 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: US govt and N.O. ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Celebrating Early Joni ["Michael Flaherty" ] early joni obsession attempted justification! ["JEFF HANKINS" Subject: RE: US govt and N.O. I don't know.... ..but what I do know is that things are getting a little better daily for those stricken by this disaster. All that we can do is try to prepare better next time and take each disaster as it comes. Bree >Where is your hope and optimism? > >It still exists, but it's hard when our country is being run by >an imbecile. The American people will survive, but at what cost? > >Gus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:33:46 -0500 From: "Michael Flaherty" Subject: Re: Celebrating Early Joni On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:46:55 -0700 Randy Remote wrote: I would love to hear the alternative Mingus >tracks with > John McLaughlin. There is nothing in those vaults that I would rather have! I would guess that the entire Jaco period has a lot of interesting outtakes, alt. versions, etc. Maybe this is greedy of me , but I would prefer what Columbia is doing with Dylan (and Miles Davis) to a big box. Keep a steady flow of live and studio material coming, with each era getting its share. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:00:30 +0100 From: "JEFF HANKINS" Subject: early joni obsession attempted justification! Thanks folks for responses to my 'early Joni' thoughts and ah, Nuriel, you' re a real fan: <> See, though the body of her work enthrals me from start to finish, (Seagull to Tiger!) I simply can't trust her judgement that far, certainly not with such unquestioning faith! She is, after all, pretty dismissive about most of her early work anyway, pretty dismissive about the music industry generally, pretty dismissive about a lot of things, if we are to read recent interviews as a true reflection of her judgements. Plus it's in the nature of great artists ('she got everything she needs..she don't look back') not to be retrospective, certainly not in the way that some archivistically minded fans can be! I take your point of course, but I propose this: that those songs have a validity all of their own, regardless of how discarded they might have been. I'm sure Joni has probably forgotten most of those songs I'm talking about; was contemptuous about their naivete quite early on: [this from Joni's interview with ZigZag in 1977] . 'ZZ: What, to you, is the trademark of your growth? What is the change in your writing that indicates to you that you're writing better songs now than you were before? JM: Now, better is a point of view. My mother and a lot of relatives will think I'm more ambiguous. I think I am a better poet now, and my melodies are much more complex. The music is, and this is a dirty word to use, much more intellectual. It's more complicated, it has more meat to it. So things like 'Carnival in Kenora', which is just a pretty little courtship song that people like - I'm not writing any more like that. I get halfway through them and I realise they're not saying anything, and I throw them aside. I have more philosophy in my songs; it's not really protest, it's more contemporary. If a historian read into it, he would see more of our time in my music now. ' Yeah, right, of course. But I went to the Picasso Museum in Barcelona recently: fantastic to see, as you move from room to room, the stages of his development - and I was intrigued with how good (technically good, though of course less ambitious) were those portraits and landscapes from his early years - even then there were little experiments with light etc. And I know this: that if I found an early painting he'd discarded, left hanging round in a cupboard somewhere.well firstly I don't think I'd leave it there, and secondly I bet for all its relative youthful unspectacular simplicity, there'd be something about it worth appreciating. What d'ya reckon? Jeff from Wales, again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:26:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: early joni obsession attempted justification! - --- JEFF HANKINS wrote: > Thanks folks for responses to my 'early Joni' > thoughts and ah, Nuriel, you' > re a real fan: > > > > < them, they were not > meant for my ears>> > > > > See, though the body of her work enthrals me from > start to finish, (Seagull > to Tiger!) I simply can't trust her judgement that > far, certainly not with > such unquestioning faith! I agree. I don't trust her that way. She just doesn't like her "helium" voice - maybe one day soon she'll like it again. She went through a period where she didn't want to sing her earlier songs if people asked: "No one asked Van Gogh to paint another Starry Night, man!" but later, relented and rerecorded them for Travelogue with full orchestral backup. I think we all go through a period where we are dismissive of the things we did in our youth and want nothing to do with them but then, as we get even older, we realize that there's some value to that stuff after all, almost as if our earlier young self were another person, a daughter or niece perhaps, in which case, it's OK to hear that stuff again, with new ears. I've forgiven myself for a lot of things I wrote in my youth, but 20 years ago, I cringed at it. And Nuriel, if someone tells me things aren't meant for my ears, you can bet your sweet ass I'd want to get hold of it and listen right away! Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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