From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #148 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, May 22 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 148 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Crash - the Movie [jrmco1@aol.com] Re: centennial gala ["mike pritchard" ] [none] [Garret ] Chuck D rap at Commonwealth [jrmco1@aol.com] Re: Chuck D rap at Commonwealth [vince ] Re: ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Re: Crash - the Movie ["Gerald A. Notaro" ] Tom/Bette sjc [Garret ] free woman in Paris ["Anne Sandstrom" ] Circle Game ["Kate Bennett" ] Life-Joni-Love, all the usual stuff [Oddmund Kaarevik ] Re: free woman in Paris [vince ] Re: least profound Joni verse [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: least profound Joni verse [Les Irvin ] Re: least profound Joni verse [vince ] Re: least profound Joni verse [jrmco1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 03:28:43 -0400 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Crash - the Movie I don't know what kind of films you like, if any at all. Still, just one thing I ask of you. Please see "Crash" and let's discuss. It directly pertains to all of us on this list and mirrors some of the things we've been discussing here lately, I think. Joni collaborator Mark Isham composed the musical score. "Crash," it's called. Sandra Bullock, Don Cheadle, Matt Dillon... It's sort of a post-modern socio-psychological "thriller." I found it riveting and fucking intense. Don't miss the beginning. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 10:18:57 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: centennial gala >>Wouldn't it have been more appropriate for Elizabeth II to have curtsied? << - - --Smurf, who always places achievement above alledged "royalty" Still can't forgive Pricess Margaret's sister, eh? mike in bcn, who agrees with smurf np pentangle - one more road ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 12:28:26 +0100 From: Garret Subject: [none] There i was thinking "finally, a recent interview with Joni in which she comes across as i imagine her in my head - none of the "oh i'm not into writing anymoer i am a painter" and none of that "awful music business" stuff - cogent, articulate, pointing me towards poetry, music, paintings, filmmakers that i don't know of or don't know well" amd along comes the line "the music business wore me down" and, more frustratingly from my point of view (as a 24 year old who has been completely enamoured with the music of Joni mitchell for going on six years.... every album i discovered was revelatory and barely a week goes by when i don't listen to her music... at the moment i'm very much in a Blue and Turbulent Indigo place... the only album i don't yet have is TTT but i know i will like it and i am leaving it until i really am in need of a new Joni injection) "There was no public recognition for my work ". Not true. People love you. Maybe you never sold 10million copies of a single album, but you have sold plenty, you have become an industry standard comparison point, no one can touch you. Maybe you have received some bad reviews here and there, but you have devoted fans around the world that buy you albums, listen to what you have say, and many of whom appreciate your painting. You are always on those ridiculous "best of" lists that i enjoy so much. Most of all you have put out brilliant albums like Blue, Hejira, DJRD, and TI. What kind of recognition do you want? She says this yet had said , a minute earlier, "A fan once said to me, Girl, you make me see pictures in my head! and I took that as a great compliment. Thats exactly my intention. ". A fan approaching an artist - isn't this public recognition? Didn't our own Julius recently have the most wonderful encounter with SIQUOMB? "The world is full of madmen and shortsighted money-mongers. Mandela, Tutu, the Dalai Lamaother than them, the world is totally lacking in great men" This seems to me like a rather fatalistic statement. I don't think it can be true. My dad is pretty decent. It's also sexist. What about Aung Sun Suu Kyi for example? What about Mary Robinson? What about Joni Mitchell? I know i know the question referred to philosophers and political leaders. Joni's answer was all encompassing. reading back on this i think i sound fairly crabby this morning. I'm not - i actually did enjoy this interview a lot, especially the earlier part:-) It was great to see Joni having a laugh. Thanks for posting the link Kerry. GARRET (now to read the next five digests!!) NP- Tom Waits, Shiver Me Timbers Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 06:44:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Kerry Subject: Joni article in "New York" De-lurking briefly here....Not sure if this has been discussed, but this short interview with Joni appeared in New York magazine on May 9: http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/11888/ Hope everyone is well! Kerry - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 08:27:07 -0400 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Chuck D rap at Commonwealth Thank you for directing me to Chuck D's eloquent and informative discussion on the future of the entertainment industry, Vince. I've only scratched the surface at 15:00 minutes into it, but I'm rapt, and clearly, the man tells it like it is. And I very much admire his vernacular. He's saying things like how his own youthful missteps left a "stain on my psyche." Heavy stuff. Great interviewer, too, in Carlos Watson from CNN. One of my favorite observations so far is when he says that a Public Enemy concert in Africa would be like the Grateful Dead concert in the United States. As a decorated veteran of 100's of Dead shows, I love that image! Now this is weird: I'm over there at Commonwealth.org, hearing Chuck D. and perusing the website, when all of a sudden, on the upcoming speaker's page, "JUST ADDED!" pops up in bold red type on my Mac screen... Then, the smiling face of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice fades in just below. Seem's she's speaking in S.F. for the Commonwealth Club at Davies Symphony Hall on May 27th at Noon. I had to spring for a Premium ticket, as she's my old college friend, although our politics are diametrically opposed these days. We won't be kissing, it's safe to say. I'll report, for what it's worth. If I don't get busted. :-) - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 08:43:21 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: Chuck D rap at Commonwealth the ever wonderful Julius wrote: > Thank you for directing me to Chuck D's eloquent and informative > discussion on the future of the entertainment industry, Vince. > > I've only scratched the surface at 15:00 minutes into it, but I'm > rapt, and clearly, the man tells it like it is. Keep going! There were parts in the 2nd half when I actually applauded - - his statements on the role of a US citizen in the world - on Africa - > > Then, the smiling face of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice > fades in just below. scary! > Seem's she's speaking in S.F. for the Commonwealth Club at Davies > Symphony Hall on May 27th at Noon. I had to spring for a Premium > ticket, as she's my old college friend, although our politics are > diametrically opposed these days. We won't be kissing, it's safe to say. > > I'll report, for what it's worth. If I don't get busted. :-) That should be interesting! An old friend - wow. I bet she was a great friend, and would get all frosty when anyone disagreed with her. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 09:54:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Garret, Welcome to Our Lady of Duality. It is a very Joni thing. But we love her for it, as frustrating as it is. How wonderful to hear you are 24. It is a great sign that Joni's music really is classic in the true sense. Glad to know you feel so comfortable in this group. That is another Joni thing. You'll find that to be true if you ever attend the various Joni gatherings. Tom Waits is another favorite artist many listers, especially Old Geezers like Bob Muller and Michael Paz :) Actually, I love that song, and love hearing Bette sing it. That, and Hello In there, my number one song of ALL time. Jerry Garret said: > There i was thinking "finally, a recent interview with Joni in which she > comes > across as i imagine her in my head - none of the "oh i'm not into writing > anymoer i am a painter" and none of that "awful music business" stuff - > cogent, > articulate, pointing me towards poetry, music, paintings, filmmakers that > i > don't know of or don't know well" amd along comes the line "the music > business > wore me down" and, more frustratingly from my point of view (as a 24 year > old > who has been completely enamoured with the music of Joni mitchell for > going on > six years.... every album i discovered was revelatory and barely a week > goes by > when i don't listen to her music... at the moment i'm very much in a Blue > and > Turbulent Indigo place... the only album i don't yet have is TTT but i > know i > will like it and i am leaving it until i really am in need of a new Joni > injection) "There was no public recognition for my work ". > Not true. People love you. Maybe you never sold 10million copies of a > single > album, but you have sold plenty, you have become an industry standard > comparison > point, no one can touch you. Maybe you have received some bad reviews > here and > there, but you have devoted fans around the world that buy you albums, > listen to > what you have say, and many of whom appreciate your painting. You are > always on > those ridiculous "best of" lists that i enjoy so much. Most of all you > have put > out brilliant albums like Blue, Hejira, DJRD, and TI. What kind of > recognition > do you want? > > She says this yet had said , a minute earlier, "A fan once said to me, > Girl, > you make me see pictures in my head! and I took that as a great > compliment. > Thats exactly my intention. ". A fan approaching an artist - isn't this > public > recognition? Didn't our own Julius recently have the most wonderful > encounter > with SIQUOMB? > > "The world is full of madmen and shortsighted money-mongers. Mandela, > Tutu, the > Dalai Lamaother than them, the world is totally lacking in great men" > > This seems to me like a rather fatalistic statement. I don't think it can > be > true. My dad is pretty decent. It's also sexist. What about Aung Sun > Suu Kyi > for example? What about Mary Robinson? What about Joni Mitchell? I know > i > know the question referred to philosophers and political leaders. Joni's > answer > was all encompassing. > > reading back on this i think i sound fairly crabby this morning. I'm not > - i > actually did enjoy this interview a lot, especially the earlier part:-) It > was > great to see Joni having a laugh. > Thanks for posting the link Kerry. > GARRET (now to read the next five digests!!) > > NP- Tom Waits, Shiver Me Timbers > > > > Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 06:44:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: Kerry > Subject: Joni article in "New York" > > De-lurking briefly here....Not sure if this has been discussed, but this > short > interview with Joni appeared in New York magazine on May 9: > > http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/arts/music/pop/11888/ > > Hope everyone is well! > > Kerry > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 09:55:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald A. Notaro" Subject: Re: Crash - the Movie This is the only recent movie I've heard people I trust talk about in a long time. Now it is on my must see list. Jerry jrmco1@aol.com said: > I don't know what kind of films you like, if any at all. Still, just > one thing I ask of you. Please see "Crash" and let's discuss. It > directly pertains to all of us on this list and mirrors some of the > things we've been discussing here lately, I think. > > Joni collaborator Mark Isham composed the musical score. > > "Crash," it's called. Sandra Bullock, Don Cheadle, Matt Dillon... > It's sort of a post-modern socio-psychological "thriller." I found it > riveting and fucking intense. Don't miss the beginning. > > -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 14:13:13 +0100 From: Garret Subject: Tom/Bette sjc Hey Jerry, It is through this list that i first came across Tom Waits (well actually, it was through Bette's version of Shiver Me Timbers but i didn't know at the time;-). When i first subscribed to JMDL at the end of 99 i made contact with Jody (hello Jody, how's you doin?) who sent me some live Dylan and filled up with some Tom Waits, including the tom and bette duet from foregin affairs. Well, i was hooooked. But it has only been the last two years that i have really paid attention to Tom Waits and the more i hear the more i admire him. I know there is a lesson that Joni could take from Tom Waits, in terms of his more recent releases (sublime). GARRET NP- Joni, Raised on Robbery Quoting "Gerald A. Notaro" : > Tom Waits is another favorite artist many listers, especially > Old Geezers like Bob Muller and Michael Paz :) Actually, I love that song, > and love hearing Bette sing it. That, and Hello In there, my number one > song of ALL time. > > Jerry > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 17:17:03 -0500 From: "Anne Sandstrom" Subject: free woman in Paris Just de-lurking for a minute or two to say I've just returned from a trip to Paris. And, yes, I did wander the Champs Elysees. Truly wonderful!!!! It occurred to me that there are many aspects of Joni that should appeal to the French. I'm convinced that if she had written her lyrics in French, instead of English, she'd be a national heroine in France. Her love of fashion (I passed on the Miyake shop), art, and jazz should all make her very popular in France, Paris especially. I wonder how often she travels to Europe... lots of love, Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 16:25:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Circle Game Laura> Would any of you have Circle Game in a format that can be uploaded and sent via email to my dad so he can listen to it... at least just the refrain? I'm going to sing it at my son's graduation tonight, and I want him to sing along with me on the refrain because his voice sounds like the guy part in the song. < how cool laura!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 02:55:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Oddmund Kaarevik Subject: Life-Joni-Love, all the usual stuff Hi everyone. Its good to be back and ACTIVE on the list. I havent read last weeks Joni mails, my heads been too buisy with exams,moving and all those trivialities, but now I am back to concentrate on the deeper level, lets call it life, (Well as close as it gets:)) My life with Joni. To have access to this mailing list have inspired me to listen even more of Jonis music than before. This spring I have listened to "For the roses", "Court and spark" and "Hissing og summer lawns", and I must say, they are all such warm arrangments. . . I still have not heard the new version of Paparika plains, or the old or at all Don Juans reckless daughter. Even though I most positve will love it. My time with DJRD will come, mind you. The prarie girl would fill in some of my black holes stil existing in my inner-Joni-musiology-uneversity degree, I believe Patti's already signed up for the doctors degree there,havent you, I am somehwhere between basic and master, in the middle, travelling. (and probably going insane!) Sweet darling it's a rich exchange Seem to me And Marianne, i tried to mail it but i t failed my profound(est) Joni verse, I guess would be, "Heart and humor and humility" He said "Will lighten up your heavy load" I left him for the refuge of the roads. . . My heavy load, or maybe my heavy code, You see Patti, our future (or present) soulmates must be given a Joni Mitchell dictionary, already available I see on the jmdl, to understand our inner deep emotions and to give us that warm lovin' you were talkin' about. I don't know what to start with, finding the man or develop the dictionary, any suggestions? God must be a boogie man! Have lovely day/night/whatever. Greetings and Love Oddmund. in the north of Norway, where the sun never sets and instead of sleeping I am using my friend's computer to email you lot! well all for now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 21:18:04 -0400 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Lady Mondegreen and llamas What's yours? I used to sing "there'll be puka shells to bring to school tomorrow" instead of "crocuses." Oh, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now... - -Julius The Last Word on Song Lyrics http://www.bangkokpost.com/en/Outlook/22May2005_out62.php It's not very often that Crutch receives a "special request" but there have been a number concerning the topic of aural malapropism, which initially appeared in PostScript seven years ago. This is not some weird medical condition, but the art of getting the lyrics of a song wrong, otherwise known as a "mondegreen'". For those who are unfamiliar how the term "mondegreen'' surfaced, a brief explanation is required. The word was originally coined by a lady who was fond of an old Scottish ballad The Bonnie Earl of Murray. To her ears, one verse went like this: "Ye highlands and ye lowlands, Oh where have you been, Thou have slain the Earl of Murray, And Lady Mondegreen." It was only after years of feeling deep sorrow about the fate of Lady Mondegreen that she discovered the last line was actually "and laid him on the green.'' It's probably true to say most of us can't remember more than a few lines of a song and even then we get the words wrong. As a kid for years I wondered why Dusty Springfield sang "You don't have to say you love me, just because I'm mad.'" It didn't seem very romantic at all. It was only a few years later that the puzzle was answered when I came across the lyrics which read "just be close at hand". For years a friend thought a Billy Joel number went: "you made the rice, I made the gravy'" which is perhaps more entertaining than the original "you may be right, I may be crazy''. Another thought the Pink Floyd lyrics for The Wall went: "the dogs suck acid in the classroom,'" which admittedly sounds a bit Pink Floyd-ish. Alas the lyrics were actually: "No dark sarcasm in the classroom.'" Some mondegreens have already become kind of folk law. Many thought the Jimi Hendrix song Purple Haze featured the line: "`Scuze me while I kiss this guy'" when Hendrix was actually kissing "the sky". It's even the title of a book. Apparently it all began with the refrain of Bob Dylan's Blowin' in the Wind which we all know goes: "The ants are my friend ...'' Sweet lettuce and peanuts When this column first discussed mondegreens in 1998, readers came up with a fine assortment of their own aural malapropisms. It seemed nearly everyone had their own special cocked-up version of popular song lyrics. One reader, who must be nearly as old as Crutch, recalled he thought the lyrics to the Kinks classic You Really Got Me went `"You got me so I can't see Batman,'" rather than "can't sleep at night''. A Beatles fan said for years she thought that in Hey Jude, Paul McCartney was singing "remember sweet lettuce under your skin,'" rather than "remember to let her under your skin'". Another thought a line in the Four Seasons song Hang On went: "Got a lot of lovely peanuts,'' as opposed to the original "got a lot of love between us'". Former colleague Denis Segaller tells me his Thai wife, who loves the song Your Cheatin' Heart insists on singing "you walk the fool'" instead of "walk the floor'". Elton John songs seemed to have caused considerable confusion over the years. Someone thought that in Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Elton was singing: "You can't help meeting your pen pal,'' rather than "you can't plant me in your penthouse'', while another reader had Elton singing: "Rocket man, burning all the trees off every lawn,'' when in fact the rocket man was "burning up his face up here alone''. And someone who definitely needed her ears examined was the lady who thought Joni Mitchell's classic Big Yellow Taxi features: "a gay pair of guys put up a parking lot,'" and not the original "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot." Cheese and bagels Some mondegreens which readers sent in were a considerable improvement on the original lyrics. I bet the Eurythmics wished they had written "Sweet dreams are made of cheese,'" rather than "this'', while Madonna's La Isla Bonita would have sounded better with "Last night I dreamed of some bagels,'' which is a bit more creative than "San Pedro''. David Bowie would probably be interested to learn that some fans thought the lyrics to Space Oddity went: "Clown control to Mao Tse-tung,'' rather than "Ground control to Major Tom,'' while someone thought in Beast of Burden the Rolling Stones sang: "I'll never be your pizza burger.'' Top marks, however, went to the reader who thought the Deep Purple classic: "Smoke on the water, fire in the sky,'' was actually "Slow walking Walter, the fire engine guy.'' But perhaps the most inspired rogue lyrics received was prompted by the Police song with the thought-provoking title, De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da. The original lyrics are typical Sting: "When their eloquence escapes me, their logic ties me up and rapes me.'' That of course doesn't make any sense at all. No wonder one listener came up with a far more sensible version: "When my elephant escapes me, a llama ties me up and rapes me.'' Try it next time you hear the song. There are millions more, of course. If nothing else, this might have got you humming a few songs over breakfast, or God forbid, even a few dodgy lyrics. Maybe some readers have got their own personal offerings? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 19:08:55 -0700 From: Kate Subject: #147 Joni, tongue in cheek? > The less cynical interpretation, as may have already been mentioned, is that, > while there is a marked shortage of great men nowadays, there is no similar > shortage of great women. ;-) > > Take care, all! > > Mary. Ha! I would be tickled if Joni was thinking that when she spoke You're right, Joni does come across as admiring the talents of many men but women? as many? then again, it's just as you say -- more men than women have been "doing" things in the arts and public eye -- they have that "room of their own" thing going for them -- or have had, longer -- Kate du nord etc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 22:45:26 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: free woman in Paris Anne Sandstrom wrote: >I'm convinced that if she had written her lyrics in French, instead of English, she'd be a national heroine in France. > > I never thought about that. I think you are totally right. Now why would you lurk instead of post daily to brighten up my existence? Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 23:34:44 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: least profound Joni verse Oddmund wrote: ...my profound(est) Joni verse, I guess would be, "Heart and humor and humility" He said "Will lighten up your heavy load"... Hi Ya'll, How about the *least* profound Joni verse? The one that comes to my mind is: "Ray's dad teaches math." The assonance tickles me together with the content in that one. Anybody else have a least profound Joni verse that comes to mind? Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 21:59:38 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: RE: least profound Joni verse > Anybody else have a least profound > Joni verse that comes to mind? Since I lost you I can't get through the day Without at least one big boo-hoo Yuck. Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 00:05:41 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: least profound Joni verse Les, you beat me. That is a top 10 all time ever suckiest line. Vince Les Irvin wrote: >>Anybody else have a least profound >>Joni verse that comes to mind? >> >> > >Since I lost you >I can't get through the day >Without at least one big boo-hoo > >Yuck. > >Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 May 2005 00:36:47 -0400 From: jrmco1@aol.com Subject: Re: least profound Joni verse That's the worst one by far for me, but my Gail claims to "get" it. I guess the men don't know, but the little girls (within some of us) understand. Then there's the anti-profundity of these two words of verse, repeated ad infinitum: "dancin' clown...dancin' clown...he's a....dancin'...dancin' clown..." Just shoot me. So much for eliminating the negative and accentuating the positive, eh? I'd better make it up to you. :-) - -Julius >> Anybody else have a least profound >> Joni verse that comes to mind? >Since I lost you >I can't get through the day >Without at least one big boo-hoo >Yuck. >Les ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #148 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)