From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #137 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, May 11 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 137 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) [Randy Remote ] Re: Virused, and the Airless Plains... ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Randy Remote's essay on Paprika Plains ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Festival Antigonish [Smurf ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:22:28 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) > Gear used: Carver CD player/Alesis HD24 dig rec/Tannoy spkrs & > powered subwoofer/Hot House amp/AKG M240 headphones. > I'll be right over. Maybe we are weird, but ONLY here at the JMDL would EVER read such a clear, concise, detailed, interesting and knowledgeable post. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:03:41 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: RE: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) What a detailed ..informative post...thanks for sharing! I bought SoaPG ..I believe the day it came out... but I still have not listened to PP...yeah...I skipped over it. It's in my car and makes me want ot go out right now and give a listen. Thank you much!! Bree PS. A remix I heard the other day was Tracy Chapman's..Fast Car. I liked it..the tempo changed dramatically but I prefer her original. (Maybe someday JM will release an entire album of remixes ??) > I've had the opportunity to do some careful listening to the new mix >of Paprika Plains on SoaPG, and to compare it to the first pressing CD >(not the HDCD version). > ). > I consider Paprika Plains to be a religious experience. It is Joni's >longest composition, and unique in it's conception. It started with 4 >half hour piano improvisations recorded in LA at a time when Joni was >feeling very 'in the around it. Maybe a little too much >compression, the new mix is that it has much more low >frequency > I don't know how much difference you would hear on a >boombox, but >through headphones or on a good stereo, you will. > Concerning the package, it's a digi-pak (boo). >But the . > I want to add how wonderful the jmdl searchable library archive is- >I was able to quickly refresh my memory on the details of PP. If you are >further interested in the story, type in the song's title. >RR, >vast and bleak and god-forsaken > >Gear used: Carver CD player/Alesis HD24 dig rec/Tannoy spkrs & >powered subwoofer/Hot House amp/AKG M240 headphones. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:32:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) Damn, now i'm going to have to go out and buy SoaPG Randy. Thanks a lot! I just loved reading this. Bravo. Jenny Randy Remote wrote: I've had the opportunity to do some careful listening to the new mix of Paprika Plains on SoaPG, and to compare it to the first pressing CD (not the HDCD version). This is only the second time an original catalog Joni song has been remixed (I think), the first being the Big Yellow Taxi version without the doo-wop vocals from the Big Yellow Taxi Remix EP (I'm not counting the espresso/taxi remixes since those were essentially new recordings). I consider Paprika Plains to be a religious experience. It is Joni's longest composition, and unique in it's conception. It started with 4 half hour piano improvisations recorded in LA at a time when Joni was feeling very 'in the groove' musically. These were edited to form one seven minute piece, then seven months after starting the project, she wrote a song inspired in part from a conversation with Bob Dylan, and inserted the original improv piece into the middle of this. Jaco Pastorius, Wayne Shorter and John Guerin were added to the last section, recorded in London. It was orchestrated by English composer Michael Gibbs who also conducted the sessions in New York. So what's a remix? The instruments and voices were originally recorded to separate tracks of a multi-track recorder. Probably 2" 24 track. Big fat expensive analog tape. The mixing engineer then reduced these many tracks to a stereo mix, probably on 1/2" analog tape, one song at a time. These tapes of each song were taken to the mastering engineer, who assembled them into an album and gave them a final tweaking. Remastering involves re-tweaking the existing stereo mixes (either because digital audio technology has improved, or because the record company was too lazy to do it right the first time, in this case both). Remixing involves going back to the multi-track recordings, and reducing them down to a new stereo mix. Every engineer will do this slightly differently. [A little background on PP is in order. When Joni met Charles Mingus, he commented that the strings on PP went in and out of tune. Joni had been saying this all along, but no one else involved in the project could hear it. The reason given for the pitch variation is that the beginning and end piano parts were recorded seven months after the center section, and the piano had been retuned. Joni specifically refers to the edit points where the new and old pianos start and stop, where the orchestra plays over the edits, as being out of tune. I can't really hear this. See if you can-the center section "January piano" starts at 5:14, the "August piano" comes back in at 11:13 on the original PP (11:11 in the new version). I don't know if anything was digitally retuned for this new mix, or if it's even possible, given that the orchestra players would probably automatically adjust their intonation as they played to the tape.] What I did for my listening tests was to record the new mix and the original side by side on 4 tracks of a digital recorder. That way I could easily switch between them, and be in the same spot. Sort of. Because I found that even though I started them together, they drifted apart, and the new mix ends 2 seconds before the old one did. I imagine the reason for this is that the machine they played the tapes back on was running a little faster than the original. Whether they were aware of this, or it was intentional, I don't know. Presumably, they dumped the original analog tracks into ProTools (digital) and mixed from there. Another thing to mention is the "pop" that appears at 9:56. It sounds just like an LP pop, but does not appear on the original mix, only on the new one. How and why this occured, ?? It sounds like part of the track, rather than a data error. Jim has mentioned the different dynamics on the new mix as compared to the old one. The problem (if it is one) is that, in the old mix, if you turn up the song in order to clearly hear the first part, then when the band comes in at the end, it's REALLY loud. So the new mix makes the volume on both parts more consistant. The old mix was fairly dry, with the vocal right up front. The new mix has more ambient space, and sounds very 3D, and the vocal is not as loud. The orchestra has dimension, and feels more unified with Joni's parts. The piano has a nice stereo spread. Joni's voice is clear and detailed, and has a reverb ambience around it. Maybe a little too much compression, robbing her voice of power during a few louder refrains. The orchestra sounds excellent, much better than the original. Strings have texture, percussion is deep and natural. Also, different orchestra mikes are emphasized, resulting in different sounds at times. My one complaint about the orchestra is where Joni sings "I dream Paprika Plains" and the orchestra hits a big crash (twice). On the original mix, especially the second hit, there is a luscious, wicked, thunderous roll looming ominously. This effect is tamer on the new mix. (Rolling Thunder may have been a literal inclusion-PP is based on a dream Joni had while on the Dylan tour of the same name. The poem written inside DJRD and reprinted in SoaPG is that dream.) Another thing about the new mix is that it has much more low frequency information. This was not audible without a subwoofer, but it is there. You can hear the orchestra room breathing. Jaco's bass at the end is the voice of god, you can see the notes slither through the air. On the original, Guerin's drums are a bit more in your face, especially the snare. On the new one, they are more refined. The cymbals are pristine, the toms rich, and a good stereo panorama. Shorter's soprano sax is more detailed and nuanced; you can hear him squeezing and stretching the notes out of his horn. Joni's piano sound on the first and end parts is very present and crisp, a beautiful piano sound. The piano in the center part has a darker sound, perhaps, as Jim suggested, because the lid is down. This section sounds better and has a better stereo spread than the original, but still sounds markedly different than the "August" piano. You can hear the change in sound at the edit points mentioned above. On the new mix, check out around 4:45, the recording is so clear you can hear Joni's nails clicking on the ivories. All in all, very well done, and a great way to spend 17 plus minutes. I don't know how much difference you would hear on a boombox, but through headphones or on a good stereo, you will. Concerning the package, it's a digi-pak (boo). But the layout is very nice, mainly due to the B&W photos of Joni on skates, in her black crow dress, and, contrary to the seriousness of Hejira, looking playful. Thankfully no Joni self portrait this time. The sticker on the cover says "A new collection curated by Joni Mitchell. Musical Tales of Long, Cold Winters. With a Hint of Short but Glorious Summers." Art direction and design are credited to Joni Mitchell and Masaki Koike. The photos are great, and would make a good print series. I want to add how wonderful the jmdl searchable library archive is- I was able to quickly refresh my memory on the details of PP. If you are further interested in the story, type in the song's title. RR, vast and bleak and god-forsaken Gear used: Carver CD player/Alesis HD24 dig rec/Tannoy spkrs & powered subwoofer/Hot House amp/AKG M240 headphones. Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:21:57 EDT From: SMC1254@aol.com Subject: Re: Paprica remix - Randy What a delight to read this post. I wish you could analyze some other tracks. I know there few remixes but a thought. I did notice when the band comes in it was softer. This is one of my favorite places in any Joni recording. Sometimes I FF to the place and just revel in its brilliance. I also will add that I think the Ice- lake photos are just haunting - esp with her smiling and having fun with it. I remember when I pulled the sleeve out for the first time opening up Hejira and saw those photos of her - it was emotional to see these for the first time. A great gift. I love SOAPG. I think is worthy. Everyone should own it. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:06:19 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Paprika Plains the remix -- long I'm in agreement with RR's careful and detailed technical assessment of the remix. The new version is so compressed that I've taken to calling it the "Pimp My Ride" mix. The late Marlboro man's trap set is gorgeous but Jaco's bass has lost any semblance of texture and seems all muddy thud now. The orchestra has lost all air and sparkle in the plucked strings and harps, a major blow for me. And someone, please save poor Joni from drowning in all that echo. It exacerbates the removal of the lyric, intentional or not. The changes to the string lines seem to make the orchestra less slavish to Joni's piano arrangement, a big improvement there. Originally, "Paprika Plains" was performed and produced with true audiophile fidelity inherent (piano tuning notwithstanding but, as previously opined, perfectly acceptable-- conceptually). The dynamics of the simple open piano intro, the nuclear explosions, and the return to the dance floor are all diminished. This new mix seems designed to be more listenable on an iPod while riding the subway, or a commercial airliner. Since I never travel without "Paprika Plains", maybe it's useful after all. CC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:55:37 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) Glad you came around! The reviews of PP that came out at the time were mostly negative, the nicer ones saying it was a failed experiment. A few were more supportive. I think it stands the test of time. Kakki wrote: > Wow, Randy - what a great post! Fascinating to me. When it was first > released PP was the most indecipherable song on her most indecipherable > album to me. The one I beat my head against the wall the most trying to > figure out. I truly couldn't decide if it was an embarrassing disaster or > simply written in a new language from a newly discovered universe/dimension. > Learning in more detail of some of the original goofs and tuning issues is > so interesting. Always giving her the supreme benefit of the doubt, I > originally thought that whatever it was, Joni had deliberately laid every > bit down that way. PP is now, of course, right up there in my top 5 of > Joni's most brilliant and beautiful pieces of music. Now, (sheesh) I guess > I am going to have to go get SOAP Girl just so I can experience the new mix! > ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:10:33 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Paprika Plains the remix -- long CC- Good points. Do you have the HDCD? (I don't).The 1st issue CD doesn't sound that great to me-a bit coarse and spitty. I suppose I should pull out the LPs and see if they're any better. I think there are things to appreciate in both mixes. On one hand I like the honest starkness of the original- on the other hand the ear candy on the new one is very natural sounding and generally tastefully used. I like your descriptions, and that nuclear jolt was definately part of the experience. c Karma wrote: > I'm in agreement with RR's careful and detailed technical assessment of the > remix. The new version is so compressed that I've taken to calling it the > "Pimp My Ride" mix. The late Marlboro man's trap set is gorgeous but Jaco's > bass has lost any semblance of texture and seems all muddy thud now. The > orchestra has lost all air and sparkle in the plucked strings and harps, a > major blow for me. And someone, please save poor Joni from drowning in all > that echo. It exacerbates the removal of the lyric, intentional or not. > The changes to the string lines seem to make the orchestra less slavish to > Joni's piano arrangement, a big improvement there. > > Originally, "Paprika Plains" was performed and produced with true audiophile > fidelity inherent (piano tuning notwithstanding but, as previously opined, > perfectly acceptable-- conceptually). The dynamics of the simple open > piano intro, the nuclear explosions, and the return to the dance floor are > all diminished. This new mix seems designed to be more listenable on an > iPod while riding the subway, or a commercial airliner. Since I never > travel without "Paprika Plains", maybe it's useful after all. > > CC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:08:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Em Subject: Re: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) oh, alll righttttttttttttttttttt... I'm gonna go listen to PP ( only have the reg DJRD CD version). Ya'll are going on and on about something that I seemed to not like very much when I tried before. But if you all like it, it MUST be great and I'm just not getting it. Will report back eventually... em :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:32:53 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Virused, and the Airless Plains... Walt, I'm glad to have the re-mixed Paprika Plains but... One of the things I liked about the original version is Joni's use of repetition. She clangs on a resolving chord several times, in Monk-like humor. Repeating her text mirrors (ha!) that. As they taught us in Lit 200, those resonances distinguish a pop piece from an art piece. Sincerely, Jim >Walt said: > (a) In Paprika Plains -- I **love** the new remix, so clear, sounds to me almost as if they used an alternate vocal track -- but was anyone else surprised by the elision of the line "I've got to get some air"? It's seamless, the song just jumps from "It's stifling in here" to "I'm going outside to get some air" -- but I can't help but wonder why the line was edited out -- Did Joni not like her reading of the line, were there other problems? Curious...> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:34:10 -0400 From: tejas4x4@aol.com Subject: Joni gettting her Doctrate in Music Hey there - Does anyone have the link to the streaming video, that shows clips of the ceremony when Joni received her Dr.of Music designation? I remember watching it, but can't find the link. I think there were several clips. Anybody? thanks ahead if you have it...Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 01:21:25 +0000 From: "Michael O'Malley" Subject: Westenra BSN cover I stumbled onto this cover of BSN by Kiwi cutie, Hayley Westenra. Probably old news for many, but for those who haven't seen it, you can watch her perform this at http://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/shows/westenra/songlist.html# Scroll down to BSN. Hey, it aint Joni, but a fairly decent cover it is. Michael in Quebec dreaming of pianos and paprika plains, and picturing Joni and Renie Flemming getting giddy on champagne... _________________________________________________________________ MSN. Calendar keeps you organized and takes the effort out of scheduling get-togethers. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 22:12:50 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Randy Remote's essay on Paprika Plains Yo Randy, I really think your essay on Paprika Plains is great. I decided to format it as a CD booklet so it's always with my copy of "Songs Of A Prairie Girl". I hope you don't mind. Your royalty check is in the mail. I sent a zipped file containing 2 Microsoft Word documents to a few people on the list. (If anyone receives an attachment from me today called "PP essay by RR in booklet form.zip" it is not a virus.) If anyone else wants it via return email, please write to me off list. Directions for use: Print both documents on either side of a single sheet of paper, then fold it; it makes a 4-page booklet. It's slightly imperfect on my printer. Dunno if it's the registration of the printer or because I'm not using a Mac. :) Sincerely, Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 22:38:58 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Paprika Plains - the remix (long) Randy Remote, (himself a singer-songwriter) said in part, >I consider Paprika Plains to be a religious experience.> Preach it, brother. Wow, I really got a lot out of that post. I learned some things and enjoyed your writing skill too. RR, you said, >Remastering involves re-tweaking the existing stereo mixes (either because digital audio technology has improved, or because the record company was too lazy to do it right the first time, in this case both).> Yes! I bought DJRD on a USA LP and it has a "snick" a few seconds just before "the band plugs in again". It's a few seconds before the volume gets very loud. For years I thought it was a flaw in my particular copy, like a pressing flaw. (Did I drop it?) When I bought a Japanese pressing of DRJD, I found a much quieter pressing (of course) but the familiar "SNICK" was in the same spot. I didn't write about it because I love that album and didn't want to discourage anyone from buying it on the basis of some stupid audiophile complaint. From this I guessed it was a mix flaw. At that spot, we're about to transition to the "full band" section and maybe that's when they punched in extra channels. It's just amazing to me that nobody said, "Uh.. it's not right yet. Let's do it again." I don't know if the SNICK is on the early CDs. The current version doesn't have that flaw. It's still a stupid audiophile complaint, especially in light of the huge dynamics she gave us in that edition (last century). It's cool to have both and ultra-cool to have a venue for "discussing" it. There are probably only two other people within 100 miles of here who would have an opinion on the topic. Later, you said, >Another thing to mention is the "pop" that appears at 9:56. It sounds just like an LP pop, but does not appear on the original mix, only on the new one.> There's a new pop? Oh, shit! How'd I miss that? Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:37:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Festival Antigonish From http://www.hfxnews.com/news.aspx?storyID=34309: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 Curtain rises on Festival Antigonish By Lindsay Jones Festival Antigonish Summer Theatre unleashed a chock-full season yesterday featuring Canadian talent, an expanded run and new shows every week. New artistic producer Ed Thomason called the 18th season lineup a hat trick. Weve got Joni Mitchell, David French and Daniel MacIvor, who is arguably one of the fastest-rising stars, said Thomason. So Im really thrilled that were showing three major Canadian talents. The season includes four main-stage shows, beginning July 1 with Stones in his Pockets by Marie Jones, which was a hit on Broadway and Londons West End stages. The play, which is directed by Thomason, is about two Irish blokes who work as movie extras with high hopes in a big-budget Hollywood flick. Joni Mitchell: River is a collection of the legendary Canadian singer-songwriters beloved and timeless work. While not a biography, the work is a song cycle of Mitchells talent. These songs, when you present and listen to them carefully, are full of interesting characters, said Thomason. They are like small dramas often in one song. Raquel Duffy (Annie, The Rocky Horror Show) and Margot Sampson (A Closer Walk with Patsy Cline) perform Mitchells music at different stages of her life. Theres nothing Ive heard like it since Leonard Cohn: Sincerely A Friend, said Duffy. So I think its exciting that were creating something thats very much an ensemble. Theres no script in this at all. Singer-songwriter Dave Car-michael is the musical director. Were focusing on her lyrics. said Carmichael. Its a chance for me to delve into musically all of Jonis material ... Just learning the tuning itself is going to be a great exploration of guitar. Kids will love the classic tale The Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum. Directed by HFXs very own Sir Buzz-a-lot Jeremy Webb, the musical features talent from the youth theatre camp. (The summer theatre day camps are open to youth aged six to 18 in August.) The popular late-night series returns with a new addition. Saturday Nights Alright! is a cabaret series with musical guests and hosts Mary-Colin Chisolm and Webb. The festival also presents How It Works, written and directed by Canadian playwright and filmmaker Daniel MacIvor (Marion Bridge, Wilby Wonderful). The play looks at recreating the idea of family in the modern world. ljones@hfxnews.ca Now me: My favorite quote? This one, about Joni songs: They are like small dramas often in one song. Huh? And my second-favorite: So I think its exciting that were creating something thats very much an ensemble. Theres no script in this at all. Could he be speaking some kind of Canadian English that's hard for the rest of us to follow? I did understand, however, what he meant by the this season being like a "hat trick." Ha-ha. - --Smurf, late for bed Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:45:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Festival Antigonish How odd... None of the quotation marks in the article or in my comments appeared when this was posted. Except the quotation marks around "hat trick." Too weird to figure out at this hour, - --Smurf - --- Smurf wrote: > From http://www.hfxnews.com/news.aspx?storyID=34309: > > > Tuesday, May 10, 2005 > Curtain rises on Festival Antigonish > By Lindsay Jones > > Festival Antigonish Summer Theatre unleashed a > chock-full season yesterday featuring Canadian > talent, > an expanded run and new shows every week. New > artistic > producer Ed Thomason called the 18th season lineup a > hat trick. > > Weve got Joni Mitchell, David French and Daniel > MacIvor, who is arguably one of the fastest-rising > stars, said Thomason. So Im really thrilled that > were showing three major Canadian talents. > > The season includes four main-stage shows, beginning > July 1 with Stones in his Pockets by Marie Jones, > which was a hit on Broadway and Londons West End > stages. The play, which is directed by Thomason, is > about two Irish blokes who work as movie extras with > high hopes in a big-budget Hollywood flick. > > Joni Mitchell: River is a collection of the > legendary > Canadian singer-songwriters beloved and timeless > work. While not a biography, the work is a song > cycle > of Mitchells talent. > > These songs, when you present and listen to them > carefully, are full of interesting characters, said > Thomason. They are like small dramas often in one > song. > > Raquel Duffy (Annie, The Rocky Horror Show) and > Margot > Sampson (A Closer Walk with Patsy Cline) perform > Mitchells music at different stages of her life. > > Theres nothing Ive heard like it since Leonard > Cohn: Sincerely A Friend, said Duffy. So I think > its exciting that were creating something thats > very much an ensemble. Theres no script in this at > all. > > Singer-songwriter Dave Car-michael is the musical > director. > > Were focusing on her lyrics. said Carmichael. > Its > a chance for me to delve into musically all of > Jonis > material ... Just learning the tuning itself is > going > to be a great exploration of guitar. > > Kids will love the classic tale The Wizard of Oz by > L. > Frank Baum. Directed by HFXs very own Sir > Buzz-a-lot > Jeremy Webb, the musical features talent from the > youth theatre camp. (The summer theatre day camps > are > open to youth aged six to 18 in August.) > > The popular late-night series returns with a new > addition. Saturday Nights Alright! is a cabaret > series with musical guests and hosts Mary-Colin > Chisolm and Webb. > > The festival also presents How It Works, written and > directed by Canadian playwright and filmmaker Daniel > MacIvor (Marion Bridge, Wilby Wonderful). The play > looks at recreating the idea of family in the modern > world. > > ljones@hfxnews.ca > > > Now me: > > My favorite quote? This one, about Joni songs: > > They are like small dramas often in one song. > > Huh? > > And my second-favorite: > > So I think its exciting that were creating > something thats very much an ensemble. Theres no > script in this at all. > > Could he be speaking some kind of Canadian English > that's hard for the rest of us to follow? > > I did understand, however, what he meant by the this > season being like a "hat trick." Ha-ha. > > --Smurf, late for bed > > > > > > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the > tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #137 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)