From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #86 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, March 23 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 086 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- summary of Tree Museum proposal [Warren Smith ] RE: Prairie Songs [Bob Muller ] Come In From The Cold ["hell" ] Compilations ["hell" ] Re: Come In From The Cold [Jerry Notaro ] RNH [Em ] Re: Come In From The Cold [Smurf ] Re: Compilations [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Compilations [Em ] RE: Compilations ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Prairie Songs [Brian Gross ] The Boys (CSN) Get Ripped Big Time (some very complimentary Joni content) [Brian Gross ] Re: Come In From The Cold [Jenny Goodspeed ] Travelogue vs Both Sides Now [revrvl@comcast.net (vince)] Re: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now [Jamie Zubairi ] RE: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now ["Richard Flynn" ] RE: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: Compilations ["McMillan Brad" ] Prairie Songs, short ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Paprika Plains, the remix 100% JC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Love or Money? [BRYAN8847@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:14:24 -0800 (PST) From: Warren Smith Subject: summary of Tree Museum proposal Summary (for full proposal, email NJTreeMuseum@yahoo.com) They took all the trees And put them in a tree museum And they charged all the people A dollar and a half just to see 'em. - Joni Mitchell, 1970 The inspiration for Tree Museums is a song in which paying to see transplanted trees was meant to be a bit facetious. But, upon much further consideration, I make this very serious proposal. A Tree Museum is a win-win-win proposition. It would be a legacy to the initiative on urban sprawl. A Tree Museum can contain a playground, picnic area, historical building, or monument or it could stretch along a canal towpath or an abandoned railroad right-of-way. Tree Museums are suitable for irregular areas separate from State Parks, such as grassy dog walking areas at turnpike rest stops. There can be acres of trees at underutilized State Parks. Beautify barren, poorly kept historic cemeteries. Some old landfill sites and brownfields would be suitable. I envision a New Jersey Tree Museum with pathways patterned after Floridas Cypress Gardens plus an educational center. There would be separate areas of swampy and sandy soil for different tree species. The Tree Museum could include a greenhouse. Sell tokens ( Tree Museum / $1.50 Admission ) at State Park entrances and even in gift shops along the turnpike. Tokens would commonly be sold in pairs (two for $3) - one for admission and one to save. Collectible tokens could be redesigned and dated every year. For the first one, put Joni Mitchell on the obverse. Tokens can be sold well in advance of the opening of the first Tree Museum, to provide construction funding. Individual trees could be paid for in exchange for the trees dedication. Offer the memorialization of a tree, at various costs, to commemorate a birth, a death, an anniversary, or another event. There could be (no charge) tree markers to honor the individual sacrifices of New Jerseys soldiers, sailors and airmen. Only two things are critical: Call the area Tree Museum and charge exactly a dollar and a half admission. Warren Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 03:48:32 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Muller Subject: RE: Prairie Songs Dude, wait a month and you can probably get it for half that. The Starbucks set is currently selling at around $10 for the PAIR. I'm sure the marketing folks have looked at the buying patterns for these comps, and see that the sales curve starts with a HUGE spike (from the completists who have to have every Joni CD) and then torpeodoes downward fast. So they price it ridiculously high coming out of the gate to maximize the take. Simple economics, Watson. Bob NP: The Homemade Orchestra, "All I Want" Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:39:20 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Come In From The Cold Time for some lyric analysis... On a recent 7-hour drive, I loaded my MP3 player with some Joni songs (among other artists) and had time to really listen to the lyrics for a change. I was struck by how autobiographical CIFTC seems, and how it almost appears to be a narrative of Joni's career/life in parts: Back in 1957 We had to dance a foot apart And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines Holding their rulers without a heart And so with just a touch of our fingers I could make our circuitry explode All we ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold Obviously those dances she went to as a child were strictly chaperoned! But from other interviews, etc. they seem to be a very fond memory from her past. We really thought we had a purpose We were so anxious to achieve We had hope The world held promise For a slave to liberty Freely I slaved away for something better And I was bought and sold And all I ever wanted Was to come in from the cold At the start of Joni's career, particularly around the time of the Woodstock festival the youth were all about "changing the world" and "making a difference". Joni really worked hard at her career, but she became another victim of commercialism in some respects, and that idealism was lost along the way. She really exposed herself emotionally with Blue, and then "burned out" with the subsequent touring and promotion, prompting the retreat to BC where most of FTR was written. I feel your leg under the table Leaning into mine I feel renewed I feel disabled By these bonfires in my spine I don't know who the arsonist was Which incendiary soul But all I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold The queen of duality strikes again - she could just be talking about new love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. disabled by the pain in her back? I am not some stone commission Like a statue in a park I am flesh and blood and vision I am howling in the dark Long blue shadows of the jackals Are falling on a pay phone by the road Oh, all they ever wanted Was to come in from the cold She's not a commercial product, she's a real person. Could "howling in the dark" be a reference to "Dog Eat Dog"? Or perhaps it's a coyote, or a Wolf That Lives In Lindsay ;o) It could also be a less obvious reference to the critics on the release of Mingus - those "jackals" ready to pounce. She's also evolved as a person, and her catalogue has evolved as well - she's not going to play the same old songs every concert, ie. she's moving, not a statue. Is this just vulgar electricity Is this the edifying fire (it was so pure) Does your smile's covert complicity Debase as it admires (just a flu with a temperature) Are you just checking out your mojo Or am I just fighting off growing old (just a high fever) All I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold This may be a reference to WTRF, her "electric" album, which was also a tribute to love ("it was so pure"), but which didn't quite have the impact she expected. An unusual turn in her career, but understandable after the perceived "failure" of Mingus. Time to do something completely different, although she appears to be second-guessing it a little - maybe a hint of a mid-life crisis ;o) I know we never will be perfect Never entirely clear (when the moon shines) We get hurt and we just panic And we strike out Out of fear (you were only being kind) I fear the sentence of this solitude 200 years on hold (for my loving crime) Oh and all we ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold Joni has always seemed to perceive herself to be a "pioneer" of woman in the music industry (with some justification), and has made some harsh statements about her "peers" over the years. Maybe she felt threatened at times, and that anger was her defense mechanism? But she seems to be a little lonely out on that limb all by herself... When I thought life had some purpose Then I thought I had some choice (I was running blind) And I made some value judgments In a self-important voice (I was outa line) But then absurdity came over me And I longed to lose control (into no mind) Oh all I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold Maybe a reference to taking risks in her career, with Mingus and/or WTRF? She also ventured into more politically-charged waters with DED and CMIARS. Maybe she really just wanted to forget about being "meaningful" or "political" (as people had come to expect) and have fun with her music, but the few times she did ("Dancin' Clown" for example) she was panned by the critics and fans. Obviously these are just my own opinions, but I lost count of how many times I listened to this song recently - still one of my favourites. The last two lines of the chorus say it all though: "All I ever wanted, was just to come in from the cold." Be accepted and loved - which is what all of us really want. Joni just says it better. Honestly, I think she can say more in one song, than most people can in an entire career! I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:39:09 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Compilations I thought Joni had an obligation to her record company to produce 'x' number of albums before she can officially retire, and that was one of the reasons for all these compilations? She's already said (numerous times) that she's no longer writing music, so while it may be annoying to us long-time fans (who already have her entire catalogue), producing these compilations is a way of meeting that obligation, and of perhaps reaching a younger and/or broader audience with these songs. Given the recent covers of her music by The Counting Crows, Diana Krall, kd lang, etc. and the Starbucks releases, I think it's an astute business move - and probably the best time to do it, if she's been considering this for a while. If the muse strikes again, I'll be applauding with everyone else, but if it doesn't, that's OK too. 61 seems a reasonable age to retire, and spend time with your grand-children! Just my $0.02 Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:07:52 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold > I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? > > > Hell Well mine is that yours is one of the best Joni posts in a long, long time. Your analysis is right on. You are some writer, Missy! Makes me long for some new Joni. She is at a place where her powers are at the height and a wisdom most seldom attain. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:10:34 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: RNH ha! on a rainy rainy day, our community radio is treating us to Rainy Night House right at this moment. a cool thing... I love streaming audio. Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:11:38 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold Great post, Hell. I am running out the door, but I wanted to add that it's interesting how the theme of electricity runs all through the circuits of this song line a heartbeat! And I think I remember Joni saying that her grandmother used to call electricity vulgar. Or am I on drugs? - --Bob, running off to go make the world a better place once again - --- hell wrote: > Time for some lyric analysis... > > On a recent 7-hour drive, I loaded my MP3 player > with some Joni songs (among > other artists) and had time to really listen to the > lyrics for a change. > > I was struck by how autobiographical CIFTC seems, > and how it almost appears > to be a narrative of Joni's career/life in parts: > > Back in 1957 > We had to dance a foot apart > And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines > Holding their rulers without a heart > And so with just a touch of our fingers > I could make our circuitry explode > All we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Obviously those dances she went to as a child were > strictly chaperoned! But > from other interviews, etc. they seem to be a very > fond memory from her > past. > > We really thought we had a purpose > We were so anxious to achieve > We had hope > The world held promise > For a slave to liberty > Freely I slaved away for something better > And I was bought and sold > And all I ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > At the start of Joni's career, particularly around > the time of the Woodstock > festival the youth were all about "changing the > world" and "making a > difference". Joni really worked hard at her career, > but she became another > victim of commercialism in some respects, and that > idealism was lost along > the way. She really exposed herself emotionally > with Blue, and then "burned > out" with the subsequent touring and promotion, > prompting the retreat to BC > where most of FTR was written. > > I feel your leg under the table > Leaning into mine > I feel renewed > I feel disabled > By these bonfires in my spine > I don't know who the arsonist was > Which incendiary soul > But all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > The queen of duality strikes again - she could just > be talking about new > love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. > disabled by the pain in her > back? > > I am not some stone commission > Like a statue in a park > I am flesh and blood and vision > I am howling in the dark > Long blue shadows of the jackals > Are falling on a pay phone by the road > Oh, all they ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > She's not a commercial product, she's a real person. > Could "howling in the > dark" be a reference to "Dog Eat Dog"? Or perhaps > it's a coyote, or a Wolf > That Lives In Lindsay ;o) It could also be a less > obvious reference to the > critics on the release of Mingus - those "jackals" > ready to pounce. She's > also evolved as a person, and her catalogue has > evolved as well - she's not > going to play the same old songs every concert, ie. > she's moving, not a > statue. > > Is this just vulgar electricity > Is this the edifying fire > (it was so pure) > Does your smile's covert complicity > Debase as it admires > (just a flu with a temperature) > Are you just checking out your mojo > Or am I just fighting off growing old > (just a high fever) > All I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > This may be a reference to WTRF, her "electric" > album, which was also a > tribute to love ("it was so pure"), but which didn't > quite have the impact > she expected. An unusual turn in her career, but > understandable after the > perceived "failure" of Mingus. Time to do something > completely different, > although she appears to be second-guessing it a > little - maybe a hint of a > mid-life crisis ;o) > > I know we never will be perfect > Never entirely clear > (when the moon shines) > We get hurt and we just panic > And we strike out > Out of fear > (you were only being kind) > I fear the sentence of this solitude > 200 years on hold > (for my loving crime) > Oh and all we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Joni has always seemed to perceive herself to be a > "pioneer" of woman in the > music industry (with some justification), and has > made some harsh statements > about her "peers" over the years. Maybe she felt > threatened at times, and > that anger was her defense mechanism? But she seems > to be a little lonely > out on that limb all by herself... > > When I thought life had some purpose > Then I thought I had some choice > (I was running blind) > And I made some value judgments > In a self-important voice > (I was outa line) > But then absurdity came over me > And I longed to lose control > (into no mind) > Oh all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Maybe a reference to taking risks in her career, > with Mingus and/or WTRF? > She also ventured into more politically-charged > waters with DED and CMIARS. > Maybe she really just wanted to forget about being > "meaningful" or > "political" (as people had come to expect) and have > fun with her music, but > the few times she did ("Dancin' Clown" for example) > she was panned by the > critics and fans. > > Obviously these are just my own opinions, but I lost > count of how many times > I listened to this song recently - still one of my > favourites. The last two > lines of the chorus say it all though: "All I ever > wanted, was just to come > in from the cold." Be accepted and loved - which is > what all of us really > want. Joni just says it better. Honestly, I think > she can say more in one > song, than most people can in an entire career! > > I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? > > > Hell > _________________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be great > audiences too" - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:16:27 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Compilations > If the muse strikes again, I'll be applauding with everyone else, but if it > doesn't, that's OK too. 61 seems a reasonable age to retire, and spend time > with your grand-children! And yet Joni expresses so much praise for Georgia O'Keefe, who worked continually until she was 96. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 05:19:12 -0800 (PST) From: Em Subject: Re: Compilations - --- hell wrote: > I thought Joni had an obligation to her record company to produce 'x' > number > of albums before she can officially retire, and that was one of the > reasons > for all these compilations? yeah but they're not all being released from her actual label, right? i.e. how would the Rhino release fulfill any contractual obligation to "her" record co? (and I admit I don't even know who her record co is). Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:31:52 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Compilations I don't quite know the corporate ins & outs, Reprise, Nonesuch and Rhino are all Warner Group imprints aren't they? Does Joni indeed owe them product? I get the impression that these compilations are being done for some reason other than contractual obligation, but I don't know the facts. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of hell Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:39 AM To: JMDL Subject: Compilations I thought Joni had an obligation to her record company to produce 'x' number of albums before she can officially retire, and that was one of the reasons for all these compilations? She's already said (numerous times) that she's no longer writing music, so while it may be annoying to us long-time fans (who already have her entire catalogue), producing these compilations is a way of meeting that obligation, and of perhaps reaching a younger and/or broader audience with these songs. Given the recent covers of her music by The Counting Crows, Diana Krall, kd lang, etc. and the Starbucks releases, I think it's an astute business move - and probably the best time to do it, if she's been considering this for a while. If the muse strikes again, I'll be applauding with everyone else, but if it doesn't, that's OK too. 61 seems a reasonable age to retire, and spend time with your grand-children! Just my $0.02 Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:31:37 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: RE: Prairie Songs Bryan wrote: > Yes, it's the remixed Paprika (perhaps the only reason for us old-timers to > buy the CD), according to a little item in billboard.com today (sorry, don't > have the link). Here's the article from the star-maker machinery behind the popular songs: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050323/music_nm/music_mitchell_dc_2 NEW YORK (Billboard) - Joni Mitchell continues to reshape the context in which her music is presented with a second retrospective, "Songs of a Prairie Girl," due April 26 via Warner Strategic Marketing. The first, "Dreamland," was released last fall and debuted at No. 177 on The Billboard 200. "This collection of songs and photographs is my contribution to Saskatchewan's Centennial celebrations," Mitchell says, referring to the Canadian province from which she hails. "I recommend that you get yourself a hot beverage and stand by the heater as you listen to these musical tales of long, cold winters with a hint of short but glorious summers." Like "Dreamland," the material on "Prairie Girl" was handpicked by Mitchell, who worked closely with the label to design the package. Among such selections as "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" and "Raised on Robbery" is a new mix of the song "Paprika Plains" from her 1977 album "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter." Reuters/Billboard Brian in rainy south jersey np:bbc world service Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: The Boys (CSN) Get Ripped Big Time (some very complimentary Joni content) Second Time Around Crosby, Stills, and Nash Greatest Hits (Remastered) (Rhino) The successful selling of Crosby, Stills, and Nash as one of rock's first "supergroups" was, above all else, a marketing triumph. The insipid folk trio with a penchant for predictable three-part harmonies were packaged as a brilliant, innovative rock band and sold, no questions asked, to a generation that would go on to make history for a consumerism as voracious as its perceptive powers were small. Think about that, and then give a listen to junk like "Our House," "Wooden Ships," and "Long Time Gone." Or the simpering "Helplessly Hoping"! That, my friends, is a truly awful song, and I'm not kidding. And think about this: CSN are still touring baseball stadiums and large arenas  and yet after 35 years, 7 of the album's 19 songs date back to the group's debut. I mean, even CSN  who couldn't recruit Neil Young fast enough  knew they were in trouble. And speaking of Young, the entire package says much about him. Two of those references come when mentioning that Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young were the group responsible for 1970's Dij` Vu. That he isn't onboard here is no surprise  given the stormy history of Y to CSN. But yank "Ohio," "Helpless," and "Everybody I Love You" from the band's collected works, and what you're left with has the bite of a boomer with dentures. Oh, yeah  "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" and "49 Bye-Byes" were strong, ambitious songs in their day, and Steven Stills was once a talented musician. But CSN needed Y in order to rock, and when it came to Laurel Canyon folk music, Joni Mitchell could compose and play rings around these three. CSN were, when all was said and done, as safe as America wanted the '60s generation to be. That the huge, motley army of outcasts and outlaws bought into the supergroup hype that launched this trio shows how easily the so-called Woodstock Nation was tamed. And that was a real shame. (J.H. Tompkins) http://www.sfbg.com/39/25/x_second_time.html Brian in VERY rainy south jersey np: bbc world service (and I still have no freakin idea how cricket scores get to be the way they are) Don't it always seem to go That you don't know what you've got till it's gone --Roberta Joan Anderson, who never lies __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:21:22 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold Great post! And a great song from one of my favorite albums. Don't you just love MP3 Players. I am on the road at least 12 hours a week in West Texas and the Hill Country ( I commute 5 minutes) and just love my MP3 Player ( a gift from a women who loves Joni). Peace, Craig NP: Buddy Miller - Universal House of Prayer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "hell" To: "JMDL" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:39 AM Subject: Come In From The Cold > Time for some lyric analysis... > > On a recent 7-hour drive, I loaded my MP3 player with some Joni songs > (among > other artists) and had time to really listen to the lyrics for a change. > > I was struck by how autobiographical CIFTC seems, and how it almost > appears > to be a narrative of Joni's career/life in parts: > > Back in 1957 > We had to dance a foot apart > And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines > Holding their rulers without a heart > And so with just a touch of our fingers > I could make our circuitry explode > All we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Obviously those dances she went to as a child were strictly chaperoned! > But > from other interviews, etc. they seem to be a very fond memory from her > past. > > We really thought we had a purpose > We were so anxious to achieve > We had hope > The world held promise > For a slave to liberty > Freely I slaved away for something better > And I was bought and sold > And all I ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > At the start of Joni's career, particularly around the time of the > Woodstock > festival the youth were all about "changing the world" and "making a > difference". Joni really worked hard at her career, but she became > another > victim of commercialism in some respects, and that idealism was lost along > the way. She really exposed herself emotionally with Blue, and then > "burned > out" with the subsequent touring and promotion, prompting the retreat to > BC > where most of FTR was written. > > I feel your leg under the table > Leaning into mine > I feel renewed > I feel disabled > By these bonfires in my spine > I don't know who the arsonist was > Which incendiary soul > But all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > The queen of duality strikes again - she could just be talking about new > love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. disabled by the pain in > her > back? > > I am not some stone commission > Like a statue in a park > I am flesh and blood and vision > I am howling in the dark > Long blue shadows of the jackals > Are falling on a pay phone by the road > Oh, all they ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > She's not a commercial product, she's a real person. Could "howling in > the > dark" be a reference to "Dog Eat Dog"? Or perhaps it's a coyote, or a > Wolf > That Lives In Lindsay ;o) It could also be a less obvious reference to > the > critics on the release of Mingus - those "jackals" ready to pounce. She's > also evolved as a person, and her catalogue has evolved as well - she's > not > going to play the same old songs every concert, ie. she's moving, not a > statue. > > Is this just vulgar electricity > Is this the edifying fire > (it was so pure) > Does your smile's covert complicity > Debase as it admires > (just a flu with a temperature) > Are you just checking out your mojo > Or am I just fighting off growing old > (just a high fever) > All I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > This may be a reference to WTRF, her "electric" album, which was also a > tribute to love ("it was so pure"), but which didn't quite have the impact > she expected. An unusual turn in her career, but understandable after the > perceived "failure" of Mingus. Time to do something completely different, > although she appears to be second-guessing it a little - maybe a hint of a > mid-life crisis ;o) > > I know we never will be perfect > Never entirely clear > (when the moon shines) > We get hurt and we just panic > And we strike out > Out of fear > (you were only being kind) > I fear the sentence of this solitude > 200 years on hold > (for my loving crime) > Oh and all we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Joni has always seemed to perceive herself to be a "pioneer" of woman in > the > music industry (with some justification), and has made some harsh > statements > about her "peers" over the years. Maybe she felt threatened at times, and > that anger was her defense mechanism? But she seems to be a little lonely > out on that limb all by herself... > > When I thought life had some purpose > Then I thought I had some choice > (I was running blind) > And I made some value judgments > In a self-important voice > (I was outa line) > But then absurdity came over me > And I longed to lose control > (into no mind) > Oh all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Maybe a reference to taking risks in her career, with Mingus and/or WTRF? > She also ventured into more politically-charged waters with DED and > CMIARS. > Maybe she really just wanted to forget about being "meaningful" or > "political" (as people had come to expect) and have fun with her music, > but > the few times she did ("Dancin' Clown" for example) she was panned by the > critics and fans. > > Obviously these are just my own opinions, but I lost count of how many > times > I listened to this song recently - still one of my favourites. The last > two > lines of the chorus say it all though: "All I ever wanted, was just to > come > in from the cold." Be accepted and loved - which is what all of us really > want. Joni just says it better. Honestly, I think she can say more in > one > song, than most people can in an entire career! > > I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? > > > Hell > _________________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be great > audiences too" - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:58:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold Wow Hell, nice analysis! I think you have something there. Your interpretation of the 'bonfires' is totally new (to me) and giving me some food for thought. Sometimes you think you can't get any more out of a song than you already have and someone comes along and shows you you couldn't be farther from the truth. Thanks! Jenny hell wrote: I feel your leg under the table Leaning into mine I feel renewed I feel disabled By these bonfires in my spine I don't know who the arsonist was Which incendiary soul But all I ever wanted Was just to come in from the cold The queen of duality strikes again - she could just be talking about new love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. disabled by the pain in her back? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:03:38 +0000 From: revrvl@comcast.net (vince) Subject: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now At my not so new job anymore I can play music in my cubicle with the headphones on. A small perk, but appreciated. Having played a series of classical ablums, I am now on the Mitchell ouevre. Both Sides Now sounds better than I remembered it. But I like it less than I rememebered because - while Joni does a fine job (better than I remembered) on the standards, it seems that I prefer Joni doing Joni and not the other stuff. Travelogue which I never liked - finally found out where the name came from, duh, while listening to Amelia - actually works quite well while working in the cubicle. "All these jack offs in the office" sure is an interesting line... (Tidbit: in Chicago only thew word is "jag off"). I'd say more but my lunch party is here... Vince - -- http://www.southsiders.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:22:52 +0000 (GMT) From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Re: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now I've always appreciated Joni's music under certain conditions which are: 1) a leedle beet stoned 2) headphones on as I don't smoke ANYTHING anymore no. 1 is outta the question. Using headphones especially for the orchestral stuff is the way forward. Even for albums like DED or CMIARS that's the method of choice. Or, using my housemates dvd player which sends it stereo around the room to 5 speakers. Like you, I'm glad that work allow me to download things to iTunes and listen to stuff sharing it with other macs (i.e. learning new music, not copying it p2p which you can't do at the office as they get anal about breach of copyright. Which I do to. ) Anyway Much Joni JamieZoob --- vince wrote: > At my not so new job anymore I can play music in my > cubicle with the headphones on. A small perk, but > appreciated. > > Having played a series of classical ablums, I am now > on the Mitchell ouevre. > > Both Sides Now sounds better than I remembered it. > But I like it less than I rememebered because - > while Joni does a fine job (better than I > remembered) on the standards, it seems that I prefer > Joni doing Joni and not the other stuff. > > Travelogue which I never liked - finally found out > where the name came from, duh, while listening to > Amelia - actually works quite well while working in > the cubicle. "All these jack offs in the office" > sure is an interesting line... (Tidbit: in Chicago > only thew word is "jag off"). > > I'd say more but my lunch party is here... > > Vince > -- > http://www.southsiders.net > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:28:15 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Come In From The Cold Hell; I think you're on the money. Funny you posting that. I was listening to 'Hits' in the car and concentrating on some other cuts when all of a sudden CIFTC got into me. Something about the image of 14 yr old Joni at her first dance, touched something old in me, the memory of those first awkward moments of something like intimacy, the electricity in our fingers... Then the rythym. I hear a cha-cha beat. Suddenly, I saw Joni dancing the cha-cha, a dance that is all heat and touching alternated with pulling back apart, perfect for lyrics! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "hell" To: "JMDL" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 7:39 AM Subject: Come In From The Cold > Time for some lyric analysis... > > On a recent 7-hour drive, I loaded my MP3 player with some Joni songs (among > other artists) and had time to really listen to the lyrics for a change. > > I was struck by how autobiographical CIFTC seems, and how it almost appears > to be a narrative of Joni's career/life in parts: > > Back in 1957 > We had to dance a foot apart > And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines > Holding their rulers without a heart > And so with just a touch of our fingers > I could make our circuitry explode > All we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Obviously those dances she went to as a child were strictly chaperoned! But > from other interviews, etc. they seem to be a very fond memory from her > past. > > We really thought we had a purpose > We were so anxious to achieve > We had hope > The world held promise > For a slave to liberty > Freely I slaved away for something better > And I was bought and sold > And all I ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > At the start of Joni's career, particularly around the time of the Woodstock > festival the youth were all about "changing the world" and "making a > difference". Joni really worked hard at her career, but she became another > victim of commercialism in some respects, and that idealism was lost along > the way. She really exposed herself emotionally with Blue, and then "burned > out" with the subsequent touring and promotion, prompting the retreat to BC > where most of FTR was written. > > I feel your leg under the table > Leaning into mine > I feel renewed > I feel disabled > By these bonfires in my spine > I don't know who the arsonist was > Which incendiary soul > But all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > The queen of duality strikes again - she could just be talking about new > love here or is it the post-polio syndrome, ie. disabled by the pain in her > back? > > I am not some stone commission > Like a statue in a park > I am flesh and blood and vision > I am howling in the dark > Long blue shadows of the jackals > Are falling on a pay phone by the road > Oh, all they ever wanted > Was to come in from the cold > > She's not a commercial product, she's a real person. Could "howling in the > dark" be a reference to "Dog Eat Dog"? Or perhaps it's a coyote, or a Wolf > That Lives In Lindsay ;o) It could also be a less obvious reference to the > critics on the release of Mingus - those "jackals" ready to pounce. She's > also evolved as a person, and her catalogue has evolved as well - she's not > going to play the same old songs every concert, ie. she's moving, not a > statue. > > Is this just vulgar electricity > Is this the edifying fire > (it was so pure) > Does your smile's covert complicity > Debase as it admires > (just a flu with a temperature) > Are you just checking out your mojo > Or am I just fighting off growing old > (just a high fever) > All I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > This may be a reference to WTRF, her "electric" album, which was also a > tribute to love ("it was so pure"), but which didn't quite have the impact > she expected. An unusual turn in her career, but understandable after the > perceived "failure" of Mingus. Time to do something completely different, > although she appears to be second-guessing it a little - maybe a hint of a > mid-life crisis ;o) > > I know we never will be perfect > Never entirely clear > (when the moon shines) > We get hurt and we just panic > And we strike out > Out of fear > (you were only being kind) > I fear the sentence of this solitude > 200 years on hold > (for my loving crime) > Oh and all we ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Joni has always seemed to perceive herself to be a "pioneer" of woman in the > music industry (with some justification), and has made some harsh statements > about her "peers" over the years. Maybe she felt threatened at times, and > that anger was her defense mechanism? But she seems to be a little lonely > out on that limb all by herself... > > When I thought life had some purpose > Then I thought I had some choice > (I was running blind) > And I made some value judgments > In a self-important voice > (I was outa line) > But then absurdity came over me > And I longed to lose control > (into no mind) > Oh all I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Maybe a reference to taking risks in her career, with Mingus and/or WTRF? > She also ventured into more politically-charged waters with DED and CMIARS. > Maybe she really just wanted to forget about being "meaningful" or > "political" (as people had come to expect) and have fun with her music, but > the few times she did ("Dancin' Clown" for example) she was panned by the > critics and fans. > > Obviously these are just my own opinions, but I lost count of how many times > I listened to this song recently - still one of my favourites. The last two > lines of the chorus say it all though: "All I ever wanted, was just to come > in from the cold." Be accepted and loved - which is what all of us really > want. Joni just says it better. Honestly, I think she can say more in one > song, than most people can in an entire career! > > I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions? > > > Hell > _________________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be great > audiences too" - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:31:53 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now Rock vs. Hard Place Shit vs. Shinola Six of one vs. Half a dozen of the other :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:58:48 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: Googlefight! Travelogue vs Both Sides Now Travelogue emerges as the clear winner with 1,270,000 results vs BSN's measly 133,000 results http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22Both+Sides+Now%22&w rd2=Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:07:21 -0500 From: Gary Z Subject: Recording Session in May Hello all, I apologize in advance for not marking this NJC, but I am hoping to reach as many of you as possible with this post. I am due to travel to Nashville in early May to do my next recording session, and would appreciate the list's ideas of songs to record. It can be Joni songs or non-Joni songs. I will certainly take any suggestions into consideration, and would also especially be interested in hearing from the songwriters on the list. If you have a song that you have written that you might like to hear someone else record, I'd be most happy to listen to any songs you may choose to send me. Thanks for any input you may have for me! Best regards, Gary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:06:50 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: RE: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now <> per googlefight, it's more like 1,270,000 of one vs. 11,300,000 of the other! their winner? both sides now. as for me, i'm with you, richard. blech. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:14:52 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now My opposite results came from putting "Both Sides Now" in quotation marks. - -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Vickery [mailto:cvickery@danielrealty.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:07 PM To: Richard Flynn Cc: joni@smoe.org; 'vince' Subject: RE: Travelogue vs Both Sides Now <> per googlefight, it's more like 1,270,000 of one vs. 11,300,000 of the other! their winner? both sides now. as for me, i'm with you, richard. blech. cindy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:28:02 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: RE: Compilations Jerry wrote: > And yet Joni expresses so much praise for Georgia O'Keefe, who worked > continually until she was 96. Ah yes, but Joni IS still painting ;o) She's always said she is a painter first and foremost, and that she got into music simply to pay the bills (and I suspect paying the bills will be no problem for a looooong time yet), so maybe this admiration is from Joni the painter, not Joni the recording artist. I also wonder how much the post-polio syndrome is playing a part in her not recording, etc.? Hell _________________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too" - Walt Whitman Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:19:40 -0500 From: "McMillan Brad" Subject: Re: Compilations not to mention 50 years of chain smoking.... Although, I kinda like that husky voice on BSN. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "hell" To: "Jerry Notaro" ; "Joni List" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 4:28 PM Subject: RE: Compilations > Jerry wrote: > > > And yet Joni expresses so much praise for Georgia O'Keefe, who worked > > continually until she was 96. > > Ah yes, but Joni IS still painting ;o) She's always said she is a painter > first and foremost, and that she got into music simply to pay the bills (and > I suspect paying the bills will be no problem for a looooong time yet), so > maybe this admiration is from Joni the painter, not Joni the recording > artist. > > I also wonder how much the post-polio syndrome is playing a part in her not > recording, etc.? > > > Hell > > _________________________________________ > "To have great poets, there must be great > audiences too" - Walt Whitman > > Hell's Pages - a whole new experience! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:01:21 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Prairie Songs, short Plan B: I'll buy the new one, then sell it on ebay. Honestly, once I have it, I'll keep... All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:21:01 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Paprika Plains, the remix 100% JC Wow, this is good news. One track at a time, she's giving us rarities. Somewhere Charlie Mingus is smiling. The pace has slowed but the work goes on. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050323/music_nm/music_mitchell_dc_2 Yeah, I'm a depressive, but today I'm thankful for the (expected) remix of Paprika Plains. If Deb Worthington was on the list today, she'd say, "Woo-hoo!" Plus, the new OtR is due (here) next week. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:51:03 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Paprika Plains, the remix 100% JC Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Wow, this is good news. One track at a time, she's giving us > rarities. Somewhere Charlie Mingus is smiling. The pace has slowed > but the work goes on. Before everybody gets their hopes up too much and not meaning to be a killjoy but I'm wondering if a 'remix' means an edited version. After all the original is 16:19 minutes long. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:03:28 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Paprika Plains, the remix 100% JC Except she mentioned it being fixed during the Symposium at McGill, after telling the oft-told out of tune piano story. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Mark or Travis Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:51 PM To: Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Paprika Plains, the remix 100% JC Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > Wow, this is good news. One track at a time, she's giving us > rarities. Somewhere Charlie Mingus is smiling. The pace has slowed > but the work goes on. Before everybody gets their hopes up too much and not meaning to be a killjoy but I'm wondering if a 'remix' means an edited version. After all the original is 16:19 minutes long. Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:07:50 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Paprika Plains, the remix 100% JC Richard Flynn wrote: > Except she mentioned it being fixed during the Symposium at McGill, > after telling the oft-told out of tune piano story. Well I would certainly buy it just for that. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:01:28 -0800 (PST) From: Smurf Subject: why'd she stop? Here are all the reasons I can think of that have been advanced over the past couple of years when the subject of Joni's departure from making new music/retirement comes up: 1) she wants to devote her creative energy to painting 2) she's unhappy with her voice 3) the music business is a cesspool 4) she's underappreciated 5) her reunion with her daughter has killed her music muse 6) post-polio syndrome makes making music uncomfortable If I had to choose one, I guess I'd say #7. - --Smurf __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:29:03 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Love or Money? Someone else said, >I haven't joined in on this compilation discussion before, but I am starting to agree with some of you that Joni's compilation business seems lazy and motivated (and misguided) by greed - something I never thought I'd say about Joni Mitchell.> No way. Greed/need/want for recognition perhaps, but not for money. Does she enjoy earning big bucks? Yes, I would venture to say. But motivated by that, I don't think so. And anyway, Joni's making loads of money from songwriting and publishing royalties without compilations. Bryan ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2005 #86 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)